An awful look

18:23Phil Kitromilides:He's great. Yeah, really good. Really, really good. And very interesting in the way that Valencia approached it. So, yeah, you could say that and you could say, well, Real Madrid, you know, they put a muscular midfield in. They tightened up the back. It was all defenders. It was relatively cautious. and then you eventually win 2-0. So what more do you want? And you can say, well, as a one-off, a way to miss Dier. Okay. A way to miss Dier. Sorry, sorry. A way to miss Dier. Okay. But this is repetitive. And this has been happening with the players who've got spark and creativity and flair on the pitch as well.

18:58Phil Kitromilides:And I just don't think Real Madrid are very good. And yet, of course, the results are brilliant. And we, I mean, they are brilliant. The points total Real Madrid are racking up. They're not that far off being on target for sort of 92, 93, 94 points, possibly even higher because actually their results have been good all year. And yet we struggle, don't we, to think of a game where you say, wow, they were good that night.

19:23Sid Lowe:The 4-0 where they beat Valencia at the Bernabeu earlier in the season.

19:29I mean, I suppose you could say Monaco.

19:34Phil Kitromilides:That was a slightly weird game. but yeah I suppose they won the Classico we shouldn't overlook the fact that they won the Classico and maybe that's the real thing here because of course they are one point behind Barcelona, you think wow it's actually really tight now I know it doesn't work like this but had they lost the Classico we're talking about seven points and that actually feels like a more faithful reflection of the difference between the two teams even though it's only one game's worth of points obviously being a six points or being a head-to-head game but Madrid I just don't think they were very good, I think they tried again to have Arda Gula at the heart of the play.

20:06Phil Kitromilides:It was funny last night because it didn't really feel like he was playing from a deeper position to get them playing. And it didn't really feel like he was playing as a number 10 to provide the final pass either. He was sort of doing a bit of both and kind of faded in and out of the game. I must say, I think the semi-good things they did tended to involve him. I'm not saying very much, but tended to involve him and tended to involve Mbappe, who at least was quite mobile or at least was trying to make things happen. But all in all, I just, I sort of feel like I want to strip it down to the most basic thing of all and just say they're not very good.

20:39And yet they sort of are.

20:43Sid Lowe:Listen, as they say in Spanish, the league tends to put everyone in their place. And I think that at the moment, Real Madrid are just a point behind Barcelona. But I'm pretty confident in saying that I do not think they're going to win the league because I think that Barcelona are a considerably better team with an idea, with a clear idea, with a group that's been playing together and been playing well for the last two years and with excellent players banging forms. So I think there's every reason to suspect that Real Madrid will not keep this going. There is, except that why shouldn't Real Madrid keep this going?

21:15Phil Kitromilides:Because, I mean, we're into February. I mean, they've kept it going for a very long time already. And in theory, at least, you would think they will improve at some point, won't they? Maybe they won't. Or maybe the argument is to follow your line, so at some point they will get found out. But then maybe there aren't enough good teams around them for them to get found out. Maybe that's part of the problem.

21:34Sid Lowe:I heard someone on the radio describing it as, we've got the Scottish League now. We're in a Scottish League with Rangers and Celtic.

21:41Phil Kitromilides:It's a line that's been used before and it comes and goes and there are moments when I can see the merit to it and other moments where I can't. I feel like this year, I feel like there's a handful of good teams but it just sort of doesn't get demonstrated, does it?

21:57Sid Lowe:Yeah, maybe not. Talk to me about Valencia, because I actually think, you know, I've been living in this country 14 years, covered every Valencia Real Madrid during that time. This was maybe the worst Valencia Real Madrid I've covered in terms of a fixture, in terms of quality, in terms of a spectacle. Valencia, we have mentioned their trials and tribulations, a giant of the game in Spain going through the darkest of times. They're just above the relegation zone. And if that game had taken place and Rio had managed to get a point off Oviedo, they would be in the relegation zone Valencia. It felt really hostile towards the home manager and home board last night, more than usual.

22:42Phil Kitromilides:I think that's a really important point. Now, it's very difficult, isn't it, to draw a direct and tangible and measurable consequence of, if you like, the context that games are played in and the surroundings. But one of the things that Carlos Corbada and the manager made a big point of stressing last season when he came in, took them over and did a brilliant job recovering them. Brilliant job pulling them out from near the bottom of the table and putting them very near a European place in the end was the role that Mastaya was going to play. and the noise and the fact that this is a place that other teams are not going to want to go to.

23:15Phil Kitromilides:It's a place that will create a momentum and a tension and, if you like, a kind of an aggression about the team that will be contagious. And one of the things that's really striking is Real Madrid before last night, I think, had been there. I'd only won three of the last 11 at Mestaya. I think that's right. And that was partly about that environment, about that sense of rivalry, about that sense of imposing yourself on the visiting team, and in particular, a team like Real Madrid. and I think you're right that last night my overall feeling was actually more than anything else it was a bit flat but the moment there was a lot of noise it was turned upon Valencia and it was turned upon Corberan of course it was turned upon the board it was turned upon it kind of in a just sort of general sense of frustration and irritation and and that we're in trouble again and of course as I say it's difficult to to draw a direct consequence a sort of cause consequence thing here.

24:07Phil Kitromilides:But you wonder if actually what was their big advantage last year might turn out to be their big disadvantage this year because it turns on them. Now, I think actually in those final weeks when it gets really close, I think Mastaya will be on their side because it will recognise the urgency of the situation. But it's hard for Valencia. I think the pressure is there and I think the fear is there and I think that's the size of this club. It's one of the things that Dan Juma said yesterday. He said, yeah, it is difficult. He said, but if you're a club like Valencia if you if you can't take the pressure and the fear you really shouldn't be here because this is a huge club that deserves more the other thing that he said and this feeds into the idea of it being a bit flat yesterday was that he talked about Valencia's tactical approach now again as we're talking about this context of this noise one of the things that has made life difficult for Almadur at Valencia is the intensity and the aggression of it which comes from a kind of comes from the context as well as the play um and you've had Valencia at least be aggressive and go at people and fly into challenges and stuff like that.

25:03Phil Kitromilides:And this game last night didn't even really have the edge. And I thought that was very interesting. It didn't have the, well, you know, put bluntly, the dirtiness, you know, the confrontational nature of it that is sometimes there. And what Dan Jung was saying after the game was that when you've got a team like Real Madrid, there's always that thing of thinking we've got to sit deep because they're so good into space. They've got so much talent, you need to protect yourself. And if we step up, then they're going to catch us. but if we stay too deep they're eventually going to get us as well and i think what he essentially got at last night was that they thought that somewhere along the line they could maybe keep madrid at bay but they could they were a little bit frightened of them but they can maybe keep and let's see if a goal comes from somewhere corner a counter-attack or whatever they really and truly didn't create almost anything they had the shot against the post from belletran and that's the only one i can think of that you would say was they didn't have it on target yeah that was the the only one I can think of that was even genuinely an opening, though.

25:58Phil Kitromilides:I can't really even think of most of their openings. Although, you know, Beltran was quite busy in the first 20 minutes or so, and I thought maybe something would happen there. And it didn't. And then, of course, when they did open up, they got caught again, which I suppose reinforces the original idea. Now, this speaks to something that happened last week with Rayo Aikano, which was Inigo Perez talking about Rayo going to the Bernabeu and going through an emotional process, which was, as the game goes on, you learn not to fear them quite so much. And I I just don't think Valencia ever got to the point where they didn't fear them.

26:27Phil Kitromilides:Or indeed fear their own circumstances. I think that's probably part of it as well.

26:30Sid Lowe:The home fans calling for the manager to resign. He was actually asked after the game, are you going to resign? Which is slightly ridiculous. It was very pointed.

26:40Phil Kitromilides:I mean, it was repeated, the question, wasn't it? It was like, you know, the last guy who did it did this. Are you going to do it? Why wouldn't you do it? Basically saying, go on, sod off. It was a really, yeah, it wasn't the nicest way of putting the question, I didn't think.

26:51Sid Lowe:I mean, Valencia could do with him resigning. I think they'd be very delighted if he resigned because they obviously are still paying their last manager, Ruben Baraka. They've still got to pay him for another year. If they sack Carlos Bo Baranda, they'll have to pay him. And then obviously they'll have to bring in a new manager and pay him. So they'd have to be paying three managers at the same time, which isn't likely to happen. So Valencia in all sorts of trouble again. Yeah, absolutely.

27:16Phil Kitromilides:This episode, Phil, is brought to you by our friends at NordVPN.

27:20Sid Lowe:Now you know guys that we travel a lot covering Spanish football. We follow Spanish teams around Europe in the Champions League.

27:27Phil Kitromilides:Or going to three league games in a weekend of course when games aren't cancelled. Ah yes, that little caveat.

27:33Sid Lowe:The best way to make sure you've got access to all your content from back home is by using NordVPN.

27:39Phil Kitromilides:Which I will be doing this summer and so will I when we head to the US for the World Cup.

27:43Sid Lowe:You can keep up with football or TV shows or movies. I think Sid will mainly be keeping up with football. NordVPN lets you access your subscriptions back home wherever you are.

27:53Phil Kitromilides:And it's really easy to use, which is quite important if you're not particularly tech savvy like some of us.

27:59Sid Lowe:It also improves your internet security, which is important if you spend a lot of time using public Wi-Fi, like train stations, airports, hotel lobbies.

28:08Phil Kitromilides:You know, the kind of places where I spend pretty much 90 % of my time.

28:12Sid Lowe:You can connect with just one click. It's one of the fastest VPNs around. and you can use up to 10 devices with one account. So for more information, and this bit's really important, you need to head to nordvpn.com forward slash TSFP.

28:28Phil Kitromilides:There's a 30-day money-back guarantee and you also get four extra months for free. Phil, can you just tell me the link again?

28:35Sid Lowe:It's in the show notes, but I'll tell you it again. nordvpn.com forward slash TSFP.

28:42Phil Kitromilides:Thank you.

28:45Sid Lowe:kayak gets my flight hotel and rental car right so i can tune out travel advice that's just

28:50Phil Kitromilides:plain wrong bro sky coin way better than points never fly during a scorpio full moon just tell the manager you'll sue instant room upgrade stop taking bad travel advice start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right bad advice you talking to me kayak got that

29:12Sid Lowe:right? Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road. Tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack. Whether you're looking for expert recommendations or know exactly what you want, Tire Rack makes it easy. Fast, free shipping, free road hazard protection, and convenient installation options. Go to TireRack.com to see tire test results, tire ratings, and consumer reviews, and be sure to check out all the special offers.

29:41Phil Kitromilides:TireRack.com, the way tire buying should be.

29:45Sid Lowe:This episode is brought to you by Trace Minerals. Most people aren't getting the minerals they need to support optimal movement, and your body doesn't make them on its own. That's why Trace Mineral Drops delivers over 70 essential minerals to help restore what your body is missing. So if you're choosing just one supplement, make it minerals. Trace Minerals. Minerals keep you moving. Save 20 % on traceminerals.com with code podcast. All right, let's talk about Barcelona against Mallorca. It finished 3-0 to Barcelona. Again, a pretty slow start from Barcelona. Remember, it was 0-0 against Oviedo at halftime.

30:23Sid Lowe:They started slowly against Copenhagen in the Champions League, against Slavia Prague in the Champions League. It has been a facet of their play so far this season. They didn't concede in the first half, which is something that they've been doing a lot this season. And they did actually manage to score with Bobby Lewandowski, breaking the deadlock. I think the main thing I want to talk about this game, Sid, is Marc Bernal, because he scored an absolutely brilliant, brilliant goal. Really nice reaction and celebration from Lamin as well. And you've got a feeling that he's going to be an important player for Barcelona.

31:01Phil Kitromilides:Well, he should be. Coming through the academy, he was the captain. He's Lamin, your miles captain. That's how good a player we're talking about. He started, obviously, last season at Mastaya on that opening game of the season when Barcelona had a couple of players absent. I think it must have been Franco de Jong and Pedri, and I'm not sure who else now. But him and Casalho both started and were both really, really good. He then, of course, picked up that terrible knee injury in Vallecas and hobbled out of there on crutches and had to go through a cruciate knee ligament operation, all the rehabilitation, everything that went with it.

31:35Phil Kitromilides:He said this weekend that when he scored, he thought about this year and how hard it has been. He actually said as well, I thought about the people around me, some of whom have been going through personal difficulties as well. And so a real sense of the meaningfulness of this for lots of people. I think he's a player who has more of, if you like, the classic Barcelona qualities than Casarodos. He uses the ball well. I think he reads the game really, really well. I think positionally he's very good indeed. Obviously, the thing that will prevent him playing as much as he would like is A, his age, and B, the quality of the players in front of them.

32:09Phil Kitromilides:Because Barcelona have good midfielders. They have Pedri still to come back. They have Gabi still to come back. They've got, of course, Daniel Muggen playing there. They've got Frenkie de Jong. We've got Eric Garcia playing in that position. You've got Casado himself in that position. I'm sure I've forgotten someone, but that's already six. And so there might be a limit to how much of a role he plays, but I think he's very, very talented indeed. And, of course, the difficulty now will be getting the continuity to keep taking those steps forward. Now, Flick was post-game was, I think, quite keen to say, you know, we're going to take this slowly.

32:39Phil Kitromilides:We don't want to rush anything because we don't want to take that risk. And also, I suppose, because in a position where they don't need to take a risk. And this is always the case with the emergence of young players. Now, obviously, a really amazing young player will emerge early because he's amazing. But quite often it's about the circumstance and about the opportunity being given to you, probably because a team has shortcomings in a certain position or because the team has a series of injuries in a certain position, which is why he started last year. And of course, why he hadn't played for a year, because he himself got an injury.

33:10Sid Lowe:You mentioned a couple of times there that he is a young player. He's 18. Yeah. He's been out for a year and he's still 18.

33:18Phil Kitromilides:As I say, he was Luminium Earl's captain. So, you know, this is a guy born in 2007, I think, maybe even 2008. I think 2007, back end of 2007. Yeah. So there is time. The thing is, there is time. And yet there sort of isn't because a young player, you know, Doro Fernandes might be an example of this going to PSG. There is that sense of a young players that when they break into the team, what they really, really want is to keep getting opportunities. And even if they break in at 17, 18, 19, even 20, 21, there isn't always that sense of, okay, it's all right. I can take my time because of course, if you think you're ready and you're playing well, what you want is to be playing.

33:56Phil Kitromilides:And the last thing you want is to be caught in this, awkward position of having left the B team behind, but not having quite reached the first team enough to get the kind of minutes that means your development will continue at the kind of rate that you want it to continue at.

34:10Sid Lowe:I think Marc Bernal is obviously a player that the manager really likes. And I think the fact that he started the first three games of last season was an indication of just how much the manager likes him. Obviously, Marc Casado was alongside him and he was very important for the first half of last season. I actually remember Frankie de Jong didn't start back-to-back league games until February last season because Casado was basically keeping him out of the team when he came back from injury. But Casado has kind of lost his place in the starting XI, obviously, and fallen down the pecking order.

34:41Sid Lowe:Not to say that that's going to happen with Mark Bernal, but Hansi Flick liking you doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to play loads. But I do think that actually he is a big fan of Mark Bernal and I think he's going to give him minutes and I think he's going to help him progress.

34:54Phil Kitromilides:I think he will but of course the bottom line is that the development is important but winning the next match is always the most important and then you've got, there is also a thing and I don't know if it gets talked about that much but the managers do have a degree of what would you call it status responsibility maybe if you sort of mean and that it is easier to leave out Bernal than it is for example to leave out Frankie de Jong now that's not me saying that you shouldn't but it's part of the process of picking your team.

35:26Sid Lowe:All right, let's move on and talk about what happened at the Metropolitano, Atletico Madrid losing to Real Betis by a goal to nil, a really, really nice goal scored by Anthony. Betis learnt from their mistakes on Thursday. They were far less open. They were sitting deep. They were hitting Atletico Madrid on the counter-attack and Cholo Simeone said after the game, they played better than us. They were, they, and you know, they executed their plan very well.

35:53Phil Kitromilides:Yeah. And I quite enjoyed Pellegrini trying to say, no, this was the same approach as it always is.

35:58Sid Lowe:No, it wasn't. It really wasn't. Did you hear, who was talking after the game? Diego Llorente speaking. And he said, there's a thin line between being brave and being suicidal, which I thought was quite a, quite a strong phrase to use about your own team in regards to Thursday's game, which they lost 5-0.

36:17Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, where they were, the game was very long and it was very easy for Atletico to run into space. And so it was different. They were deeper. They were more compact. They were more likely to go into space. And I actually thought there was something very interesting from Simeone postgame as well. And he said, when teams close off against us, we, and I like this point, as a coaching staff, lack the ability to find a way through. And we have to work on that. And we have to give the players solutions. Now, obviously, in part, you're still saying the players couldn't do it. But I thought it was important.

36:56Phil Kitromilides:He said, you know, we structurally don't have those solutions in that part of the pitch. And obviously, it's not helped by the fact that Julian Alvarez is just kind of absent at the moment. He's just not there, really. And I actually think it's not working quite as well as they would hope with Alex Baena. finding the right spaces for him and the right role for him and they've got a handful of problems there. I suppose this is it. If you look at Atletico Madrid's creative players, if creative is the right word, the players who make things happen this year, I would say the best of them is Simeone's son and he's not a player that's going to get there by guile.

37:36Phil Kitromilides:As we've talked about lots of times, he's the player who's going to get there by gritting his teeth, by clenching his neck and running like hell. And if you haven't got space to run into, it's quite difficult to do that.

37:47Sid Lowe:Julian hasn't scored since the 1st of November in the league. So three and a bit months without scoring. Physically, it doesn't look amazing. And he's just not being involved in the games. No. It's obviously worrying. It's obviously an issue. And it's obviously something that needs to improve. If Atletico Madrid are going to have anything other than a highly disappointing season, which at the moment they are trickling towards in the league. 13 points behind Barcelona. Their entire season basically rests on the Copa del Rey semi-final, the first leg of which is on Thursday night at home to Barcelona, which is pretty, pretty massive.

38:26Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, absolutely. If you are out of the cup and out of the league, all right, still in the Champions League, but you don't really think you can win it. Out of the cup and out of the league in the first two weeks of February, that is a really poor season.

38:39Sid Lowe:All right, before we go, this is what happened in the Segunda División. Castellón are top of the table right now. Yes, Castellón are top of the Segunda División after beating Valladolid 4-0. Raffing are a point behind them and have a game in hand. They're playing Mirandés this evening. And after them, it's Depor, who beat Albacete 2-1, and Almería, who won 2-1 at Cadiz. We're going to be over at patreon.com forward slash TSFP for the rest of the week. Loads of Spanish football content there, so come and join us from just€4.75 a month. If you don't want to do that, well, we'll be back on Friday for the preview pod looking ahead to the weekend's action so join us then adios amigos

39:14Phil Kitromilides:cheerio

40:09Sid Lowe:We'll see you next time. Active by Abercrombie. Shop YPB in the app, online, and in stores.

40:15Phil Kitromilides:This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in. With a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles, you can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip-off with a variety of non-alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com. Near beer, fit for all times.