Don't let them think

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1:21Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's edition of TSFP, the spanish football podcast i'm phil kit from ladies i'm joined by sid low who looks to be in a slightly low level hotel room somewhere in galicia hi sid i feel that the framing of it's brilliant

1:36Phil Kitromilides:isn't it you've got the air conditioning thing above there the the the um emergency escape root stuff on the on the door actually the rest of the room is sort of okay and the most important thing it's got a kettle and this is very unspanish this is a real ring concord right from the start It's got a kettle and it's got mugs that are actually mug sized. It's amazing. And tea bags. Would you believe it? What, there were tea bags in the hotel room? You didn't bring your own? Yes, there were tea bags in the hotel room. And down in the breakfast room, there were proper tea bags, which, of course, I might have secreted a few of them away from the breakfast room and brought them up with me.

2:09All right, try not to secrete too much, Sid. It's early on a Monday morning. Let's get right into it. This is what happened on Match Day 8 in La Liga EA Sports. Friday night saw Osasuna come from behind to beat Getafe 2-1. Saturday saw Oviedo lose 2-0 at home to Levante. Sydney went up to Oviedo for that game. You crazy, crazy man. Girona got their first win of the season, beating Valencia 2-1 at Montelivi. Athletic Club beat Mallorca 2-1, ending a long winless run for them. And Real Madrid beat Villarreal 3-1 at the Bernabeu. Then on Sunday, Elche suffered their first defeat of the season. They went down 3-1 to Alaves.

2:53Sevilla beat Barca for the first time in 10 years. And not just beat them, but beat them 4-1 at the Estadio Ramon Sánchez-Pijuan as well. Big, big result. Betis beat Espanyol 2-1. Betis goalkeeper Paulo López saving a penalty in the last minute against his former club. And then giving it all that. Yes. Yeah, no celebrating against former clubs, right? Rayo beating Real Sociedad by a goal to nil. Magnificent result for the mighty Rayo Vallecano. Real Sociedad, absolutely dire. Just a terrible football team at the moment and beaten 1-0 by Rayo. And Celta Vigo drew their sixth game of the season by the same scoreline.

3:36It finished 1-1 at Baleidos last night against Atletico Madrid. You were at that game as well, Sid. More on that in just a second. If you're enjoying this podcast and you like Spanish football and you like hearing about Spanish football and La Liga and Spain as a whole, why not join us over at patreon.com forward slash TSFP? Membership starts from just€4.75 a month. And with those€4.75 a month, you get the Monday and Friday podcasts without any adverts. You get a Q &A pod. You get a bonus pod. You get the newsletter and you get the Discord. If you give us a little bit more money, you get access to the TSFP diary and our Zoom calls as well with patrons.

4:14So come and check us out. Patreon.com forward slash TSFP. We have to talk about Barca first, Sid, and that 4-1 defeat in Seville. I know you were in Vigo while this was going on, so you weren't at the game, but it was a huge result. A Barca side who just, well, let's put it in the words of some of their players. Pau Kubarsi says, we started the game asleep, dormidos. Pedri said, we didn't know what to do with the ball in the first half. We didn't know how to attack. We didn't know how to defend. And they were really shockingly bad, particularly in the first half. Second half was a little bit better, although not much.

4:55But yeah, this was a stunningly poor performance from Barca.

5:00Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, it was. It was really poor. And I like the way that Pedri analysed it post-game because he picked up on three or four things and kind of kept going back over them. You know, we didn't use the ball well. We weren't able to get out of the press. We weren't able to find the pass. We were pulling that defensive line up at the wrong time sometimes and not judging it well. And in a very kind of downcast sort of way and in a very short way as well, Pedri touched on, as I say, four or five really big flaws in the Barcelona team. I think we do have to talk about the quality of the way that Sevilla played.

5:31Phil Kitromilides:I think we have to talk about the approach. They shifted from five at the back to four at the back. They went for extra men in midfield. There was a very nice way of putting it from Mateus Almeida, the coach of Sevilla. And he said, we put a man on all of their brains, all of the brains in the midfield that see the pass and play the pass. We put people on them. So there wasn't a way of playing that pass through. And then, of course, going through the gap. Remember, Phil, the game at Vallecas, I'm sure you do, where after the game, Misi Palathon had said that Inigo Pettit had talked about the flick line and how high it was and how you go through it.

6:01Phil Kitromilides:And Raya Vajkan, I thought, were very unfortunate not to win that game. brilliant performance from Joanne Garcia who saved Barcelona repeatedly and this was similar so at 1-0 up Sevilla already could have been 4-4 up and when they got the second it was no more than they deserved at 2-1 once Barcelona got one back and Rashford scored a brilliant goal just before half time I actually thought Barcelona might get back into it so did I because they had quite a bit of the ball they were they weren't I wouldn't I wouldn't say they were creating clear chances but they were starting to put the pressure on it started to happen they get a penalty which would have made it 2-2 and who knows at that point if they then go on and win it but I think I think you you have to take a step back and I think you have to take a step back from that and you have to take a step back away from the the refereeing decisions of which Barcelona obviously have talked a bit although Flick hasn't because he always tries not to and and just look at the overall picture and the overall picture was a team that was totally overrun by Sevilla side who I thought got it absolutely right I mean the context to this Barcelona had a challenging and grueling game in midweek in the Champions League against the best team in Europe right now, who are PSG, Sevilla had all week to prepare for this game.

7:03It was also very hot in Seville, 32, 33 degrees, four o 'clock kickoff. I mean, it was hot for both teams as well, but perhaps for Barcelona's style and the intensity with which they need to play with, it wasn't conducive for that. But that's by the by. I want to pick up on what you said about the high lines, Sid. Now, I don't know about you. Obviously, you work for various international media companies. Do you tend to hear people go on about this high line all the time, as it is the defining thing about Barcelona? Because I do as well. And people say, you know, when are they going to stop playing this high line?

7:39Why are they still playing this high line? Whilst forgetting that they won a domestic treble and very nearly got to the Champions League final playing with this high line. I think the question is, not if they're going to stop playing it, but what Pedri touched upon there. He said, and I'm not sure what the exact translation is for this, tiramos la línea cuando no debíamos. We played that offside trap a couple of times when we shouldn't have. We stepped up when we shouldn't have. It's not whether or not they're going to change playing that high line they are. It's how they implement it and when they implement it into games which they didn't do correctly here.

8:11Phil Kitromilides:Exactly that. And to pick up on your first point, yeah, I spent the whole of last season trying to say to people, you know, look, here we are looking at this. And of course, it is natural in a way that you analyse it through that when you watch past anything. You can see the risk. You can see that. Well, let's carry on with that idea of the line. You can see them on a tightrope and you think, wow, they take a step wrong and they're falling. But they were so good at the timing of it, of the pressure on the pass and not allowing teams for it. And that's one of the reasons why they were so successful last year.

8:38Phil Kitromilides:Albeit, even within that, you could maybe say, well, there were moments when perhaps they could have been a little bit less radical in it. But, you know, and I totally agree with you. I had this battle constantly last year of saying to people, well, hang on. It's working and it works really well. It's one of the reasons why they're so good to watch. It is one of the reasons why when they get caught, they'll get caught badly. And, you know, yesterday, I think I'm right in saying, is the fifth time they've conceded four goals on the Hansi Blick, White Real Sociedad, Inter Milan. I can't think what the other ones are now, but I had a list earlier.

9:07Phil Kitromilides:I think it was four, maybe five. And so, you know, you are on that edge. And so when it goes wrong, it's going to grow wrong badly. I think what's happening this year, and I completely agree with you, is that that high line is not working as well. Now, there's a number of reasons for it. And I don't want to be oversimplistic. And I realise there is a risk of being oversimplistic. Obviously, there's a bit of me that just thinks, well, this is Inigo Martínez. This is the guy that led that line out, that got the timing right, that controlled the rest of the defence, that stepped them forward. But I think it's much more than that.

9:34Phil Kitromilides:Because I think even without him, you can get this right if you time it right. But in particular, if you put the pressure on the passers so they can't deliver that ball into the space behind you. and that's what I think one of the things that Barcelona are struggling with they had a really bad um it was October wasn't last year and Flick called it shit October or was it November it was October wasn't it oh sorry that's right shit November so maybe now we're going to shit October so you have that period where it's kind of not not quite happening and you need to get it right and the timing needs to be good and the other thing that's different of course is that the more now I know this is right this might sound over simplistic as well and I think there is a risk of the analysis being oversimplistic.

10:11Phil Kitromilides:There is a sense as well of teams working this out. Now, you might say, well, of course they work it out. If everyone was talking about it all last year, how can it take so long to work out? I'll tell you how it can. Because it's one thing to identify this as a potential chink in the armour that you can attack. You know, there's a space there. You can go into that space you've got to play. But you've got to be able to work on it and train it and get it right. Because as Real Madrid found last year in the first Clasico, I think I'm right in saying it was 12 offsides, eight of them for Mbappe. That is because a team, A, Barcelona, are doing it brilliantly and B, Real Madrid aren't doing it brilliantly.

10:43Phil Kitromilides:And of course, the teams that play against Barcelona, it's not enough just to see that they play high. You've got to then get it right. And that's really difficult. You know, I think this is one of the other things we overlook. We sometimes look at this Barcelona team and think, well, it's so easy. Well, it's easy to identify, maybe. It's not necessarily easy to do. And Sevilla did it brilliantly. Benfica, Osasuna, Atletico Madrid and Inter Milan, the sides that scored four goals and Real Sociedad. And Real Sociedad. Yeah. Oh no, not Real Sociedad. Yeah, didn't they lose? Hang on, what's the score at Russell?

11:13Phil Kitromilides:Oh, no, no, sorry. They got overrun, but they didn't actually concede four. Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. So those are the teams that scored four goals against Barcelona last season. Sevilla joining that list. I liked what I heard in the cooling break from Matias Almeida. I think it was in the first half, and there were lots of good things to pick up on it. And I think they were already 2-0 up at this point. and he was talking about not dropping the intensity, which he didn't. And there was also this great line, don't let them think. Don't let them think. And they didn't. Well, I mean, the best, my favourite bit of that, and this is actually where we're kind of thinking about the whole thing kind of is encapsulated in this.

11:54Phil Kitromilides:They're 1-0 up at that point, not 2. It's 1-0 up. It's just before they get the second. So that's minute 33. And I think they get the second in minute 36. As you know, I'm always there looking at the minutes. And he says that thing about don't let them think. He says that thing, look, we have planned this. We don't break from the plan. We have planned this. We go for this. You don't let them think. You play that pass. And then his final line, which I love, he says, liquidate this. You know, end this. No arcing about. Finish him. Finish him. Finish him off. And they did. Now, obviously, it's a little simplistic to say that they did, although that's inevitably the way we're all going to frame it, myself included.

12:31Phil Kitromilides:But they went out of the pitch three minutes later, they got the second goal. Now, they didn't finish it off immediately because they conceded just before half-time, they were under pressure, they then have the penalty that Lewandowski misses at 2-1, which would have made it 2-2, and who knows what happens next. And the last two goals come very late. But the last two goals were entirely deserved. Because at that point, when Isaac Romero scores, he's already had three absolute. I mean, it's difficult to properly express how clear those three chances were that he didn't take. And so you're 2-0 up at that point, just after that calling break, and you think this could already be four or five and in the end it was four.

13:10I enjoyed Isaac Romero making me look very, very silly or not just after I'd given his expected goals in the previous season and saying that he was way down on his XG last season, underperforming, really should be taking his chances and he duly scored, although it was a pretty simple one.

13:28Phil Kitromilides:Exactly and it proves your point anyway because he's already missed three in that point. The other thing about Isac Romero, in fairness, is that I'm not going to say no one expects him to score, because I suppose in a way you want him to score and that's what your fault is for. But there's an admiration for the amount of work he does, for how selfless he is. And I think there is a recognition that he's not a clean finisher. No. I think he's one way of putting it. Or a good one. Yeah. He did score. He did score against Barcelona. Just going back to Barcelona, obviously they're missing some key players.

14:00There's no Lamin 'Amal, no Rafinha. Their first two choice goalkeepers are out as well. And I think Wojciech Szczesny could maybe have done better with it. At least one of the goals, although he did make some good saves in this game as well. No Fermin, no Gavi. There are important players missing, but everyone has injuries. And the starting XI in this game is a really strong starting XI.

14:22Phil Kitromilides:Yes, it is. But I do think that's true, what you're saying. And I do think there are some specific points you can pick up on in terms of mitigating factors, I suppose, for want of a better phrase. And as you say, the absence of Lamin, the absence of Rafinha. I think not enough is said about the absence of Rafinha, by the way. I mean, everyone focuses on Lamin, but Rafinha is their most decisive player last season. Yeah, but the thing is with Lamin, it's the aura that he has. Of course it is. Now it's a little bit like, I don't know, what Messi and Cristiano. It's what the opponents feel as well.

14:54like oh my god this guy's on the pitch as well yeah and that he draws people towards him and

14:59Phil Kitromilides:opens space for everybody else and i agree with you as well on shesney we were talking about this i think in one of the podcasts last week i can't remember if it was the one after the champions league game i think it probably was and we were talking about how shesney is you know one of the great stories in football over the last 10 years this guy who comes out of retirement wins it all domestically and played brilliantly for barcelona but we we still couldn't help feeling that he's maybe not quite the absolute elite. And the absence of Joe and Garthira, I think, does matter. Again, as I say, you can, and of course, people will have done, point at the penalty and say, well, I'm not sure about that.

15:32Phil Kitromilides:You can point at the missed penalty and say, we should have taken that. You can talk about some of those elements. But the overall feeling was a bust on a side that was completely overrun. But it is true that even within that, a couple of key moments go their way, and perhaps they get away with this. But I suppose getting away with it would be the right word for it because they didn't play well. You know, this was actually, I think, you know, go back to it. I've already mentioned it. But this was very similar to the Riot of Icano game, I felt. You know, the difference is the result rather than the way that the game went played out.

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17:39Phil Kitromilides:of FIFA World Cup 26 tickets and prizes. Enter now at MichelobUltra.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26. Michelob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26, superior access, no purchase necessary. Open U.S. Residence 21 Plus begins on December 1st, 2025, ends on July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods. Visit www.miclobaltra.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. All right, let's talk about Real Madrid beating Villarreal by three goals to one. Vinicius Junior scoring twice, killing Mbappé. Also scoring Villarreal's goal, a brilliant finish from Jorge Mikao Tadze.

18:14Villarreal, who started the game with Mikao Tadze and Nicolas Pepe both on the bench. They came off in the second half and the side looked particularly more dangerous. But by then it almost felt like it was too late. Real Madrid, broadly speaking, controlled this game more or less for its entirety. I actually thought they played pretty well at some points. It wasn't a sparkling performance, but it was pretty good from Real Madrid.

18:39Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, I think it was closer to what we were talking about before the derby. That idea of Madrid controlling games, maybe not being very excited. I think I described them as boring. What's your phrase? Yeah, boringly good. And the sort of, you know, controlling the game, being on top. I think there was a bit more spark in this than there'd been in some of the previous games. I think there were more chances there. There was, we did see a Vinicius that was really lively when it's not been all that good this season with Vinicius, but I thought he was good in this. And I felt they were the better side.

19:06Phil Kitromilides:That said, I also felt at half-time, given the way that Villarreal play and the way that they plan it, and obviously that one really good chance where Courtois makes an amazing save for the ball right through the middle, and they're one-on-one. I can't remember who it is now. Who is it, this one-on-one? It's Tani Olu-Sahei. That's right. Sorry. I was trying to remember who it was. And Courtois makes a really, really good save and at that point I'm thinking this is kind of the way that Villarreal plan it so for all of Madrid's control of course it is yeah this is there is a chance that Madrid get caught out in this there is a chance that they they they get um that Villarreal get what they want but yeah ultimately I think there's not really too much doubt that this was the right result and a lot of eyes were on Benicis and he was noticeably noticeably better in this game you know I think it's his best performance this season yeah and obviously you know he he wins the penalty which for me actually, to be honest, I've watched it back quite a few times.

19:56Phil Kitromilides:I think he's a penalty. I think he makes the most of it, but I think it is a penalty. And Kylian Mbappe gives him the penalty. And I think there's an awareness there of kind of what it meant for Vinicius to have the chance to score. It's the first time he's got two, I think going back for sort of 18 months or so. And actually, no, maybe it's even longer than that. And it's not a great penalty, but he scores it. And I think there is a, what do you call this in English? An estenification, a kind of a staging of the relationship between Vinicius and Mbappe. there. It's kind of a statement. And I think that was quite important.

20:27Phil Kitromilides:And obviously Vinicius has been under a lot of pressure and hasn't played particularly well. So much so that there's been this, we said it a few weeks ago, over-the-top debate about him. But some of the problems are real. And I think it was very noticeable that Mbappe tried to play that role. Now, I also think I'm... Maybe I'm a cynic, but I'm a little bit sort of... What's the word? There's a bit of caution urged upon me by the fact that it's so public. It feels like it's being played out as much as being a real thing, if you sort of mean. Speaking of things being played out in public, Fede Valverde played it right back.

21:03Phil Kitromilides:Yeah. Yeah, well, it's his best position. I hate to say it. Don't tell him that. No, no, no, exactly. But it was sort of statistics. It was the game where he'd had the most touches this season, the game where he had the most shots this season, the game where he produced the most passes this season, where he covered of the most ground. I don't want to go back over old ground because we've talked about this quite a bit, but this system as a central midfielder is slightly contradictory for him because he helps them because he's the one that drives the press, but it doesn't help him because it doesn't give him the space into which to run, which makes him such a good player.