England v Spain Preview

0:01Having uncontrolled eosinophilic esophagitis or EOE can mean you're stuck in many ways, like cutting your food into tiny pieces. Or stuck chewing food for a long time. Dupixin Dupilumab, a prescription medicine for patients one year and older weighing at least 33 pounds can help with that. It's a breakthrough treatment that can reduce inflammation in the esophagus and improve swallowing. You can get with this or you can get with that. How about this? Dupixent is not a steroid. It proactively treats EOE so you can get ahead of it. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or wheezing or swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or throat.

0:42Tell your doctor of new or worsening joint aches and pain or a parasitic infection or asthma. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Feeling stuck with EOE? Start treating with Dupixent. Talk to your gastroenterologist or allergist today about Dupixent. Learn more at Dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT. Every game day you show up for your team. Now it's your time. We go V. We go V. Ask your prescriber about We Go V. Semaglutide Injection 2.4mg, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOV or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about We Go V. Why wait? We go V.

1:31This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+.

2:04Hi everybody and welcome to the Preview Pod. It's me Al with Sid today, Kitro still away in the United States with CBS. We are here and we are looking ahead not to La Liga, no Spanish football this weekend, but there is Spain against England at Wembley, Sid.

2:19Alex Kirkland:Hang on, did you just say no Spanish football this weekend? Al? Nothing interesting. Nothing of high quality, is there? There's the Astoria Starby, the biggest game there is. But yes, you're right. Yes, you're a fair affair. Spain are going to Wembley, which is not a bad place to start your, I don't know, what would you call it? Start your life as world champions? Would you call it that? I suppose you would. Spain got to play pretty much every other big team this summer, not England. We thought we might get a Spain-England final. I thought we'd get a Spain-England final. It wasn't to be. It didn't happen.

2:53But at Wembley on Saturday, we get to take a look at these two teams taking each other on. Sid, how are you feeling about it?

2:59Alex Kirkland:I'm feeling that obviously the key thing for Spain really is a sense that, you know, while you've got the World Cup, that you don't rest on that, that you continue to compete. And I think obviously one of the things that they've demonstrated is that they do that, that there's a continuity of mentality as well as style and approach and so on. Spain are I'm going to completely Conscient to myself Spain are theoretically 35 games unbeaten I'm absolutely not Having that stat Except of course I very clearly am having that stat Because I've used it myself Many times They lost one of those games They lost it on penalties But they still lost it I have a sneaking feeling That they might lose this one Look I mean England You know England are good I mean I know everyone I know Exactly I know everyone kind of gets I mean obviously we're English right so it we probably sort of have a sense of this maybe maybe certainly more than those of our listeners who are not in in England um everyone kind of gets very down on England but England are over the last 10 years consistently really really good they just haven't quite taken that final step yet indeed yeah they've got some finals haven't won them at the World Cup this summer didn't get to the final got knocked out in really quite frustrating fashion the way that it happened to Argentina.

4:14And that's true.

4:15Alex Kirkland:They were massively outplayed by Argentina, weren't they? Yeah, that is true. Sid, you've been around the Spain camp this week. Would you like to tell us who you spoke to yesterday? Yes, I went yesterday. I was there the day before yesterday. I went to see Laminya Mal, which was quite exciting. And he is fabulous. Like he's very, very impressive. He's very sharp. There's something about him. There's something there. I mean, not just as a footballer, but as a, I was going to say, as a man, as a footballer, I suppose he is a man now, he's 19. But, you know, as a kid, he's, there's still something very childish about him.

4:50Alex Kirkland:And yet at the same time, there's a clarity with him. There's an awareness of the seriousness of what he does at the same time as a lightness in the way that he plays, a sense of fun in his approach, a kind of a complete confidence in himself, which then comes with some contradictions because, you know, he does talk about the pressure and does talk about, and I think he's very aware of the things that people say about him at the same time as saying, he's not aware of the things that people are saying about him. But he's, he's hugely impressive. And of course he is a kid who, who has said a lot over the last two or three weeks, particularly as the discussion has started to center on the Ballon d 'Or, which I must admit our discussion didn't because I'm a little bit bored of it and to be honest with you I think he's probably a little bit bored of it um or at least or at least I think he realizes now that there's a this has become kind of a campaign and he I think he doesn't really want it to be a campaign to be honest but he's very clear and he said this a lot over the last couple of weeks of his status and I think he very clearly believes that he is the best player in the world or one of the two maybe three best players in the world he even said in an interview with Jorge Valano, which I thought was very interesting, that it's him and Kylian Mbappé.

6:08Alex Kirkland:I thought it was interesting the way that he posed it as there being two players, if you sort of mean, and almost kind of a Messi-Ronaldo style thing. And I think he thinks that his time has come. And this is... We could have 15 years of him still. Well, maybe not 15. Could he play to 34? Yeah, I suppose he probably could. I mean, let's hope so. you know Messi has shown that with what he did this summer that anything is is possible okay we're looking forward to reading that in the pages of the Guardian on Saturday I presume um no spoilers but any little bits that really stood out for you in terms of things that he said or anything really well I thought there were loads of things that he said that were really interesting um there was one we talked we one of the things that I really like we we we talked a little bit about the idea of, and I won't give you the, the Lions is lovely and I'm not going to spoil that one.

7:03Alex Kirkland:Save it. But the idea of getting the ball, kind of facing down an opponent and feeling the stadium, kind of saying to you, go on then. You know, and that sense of performing for them. And he said what I thought was interesting. He said that that was very noticeable in the US. And it was. I mean, you and me were at the Spain games, that every time Lamine got the ball, the stadium rose and and that maybe more so than than in european stadiums maybe because it is a different type of crowd maybe it is and the way that lamin put it was this idea of it being a spectacular you know like a show yeah they've come to say is this kid that everyone's talking about really that good let's see what he can do and you put someone on billboards on the side of you know skyscrapers that's kind of exactly and he was everywhere in the u.s wasn't he and and and he was very conscious of that.

7:56Alex Kirkland:I also very briefly did mention to him that, that me and you and him were all in Nashville on the same day. He says, Oh, it was my first day off. I went to Nashville. I said, yeah, so did I. Did he not, did he not visit the Johnny Cash museum? Was that not top of his list? No, he didn't. He went to eat, but he said he met, he said one of the nice things was that he was able to stroll around. And actually that's part of this as well. This idea of fame and not having your own life. So one of the things that was nice in the U S was that you could stroll around and kind of do what he wants you know we all saw that footage of him in walmart said you know he did actually say i like the atmosphere of nashville all these cowboys everywhere which i thought was great um but the the curious thing actually i mean it's it comes a little insight into into if you like the kind of very simple things that that sometimes you feel like you can't do and he said in the us if we stop for petrol you know in one of these typical 24 hour places i could get out and go and get something it wouldn't be a problem yeah wow imagine being involved in in that kind of environment um he was fascinating on on the talk of kind of if you like the idea of fear being something that's outside football not in football and that football and and and i thought as well one of the interesting things was his sense of responsibility towards his family and so much so that it was a bit near the end and he said something that kind of drew that kind of drew the conversation back around i said you know there's there's another contradiction here that you you know we're talking about a 19 year old kid um and and you know a 19 year old kid who in many ways is still a 19 year old kid you know let's face it this is me as well you know he doesn't mind a packet of sweets he doesn't mind you know that kind of thing and um and and and there was this he was talking about the sort of responsibility towards the family and so on and you get to that contradiction you think here's a 19 year old kid who's basically the father to this family, looking after his mum and his dad and his little brother, and with his little brother very much the father figure.

9:55Alex Kirkland:He's very interesting on the mechanics of the game, actually, and it's interesting how much he thinks about it. And he was telling me about the... I won't spoil this because I thought it was really interesting, and I hope that people reading it think it's interesting too. He was telling me about the goal in the World Cup final and the thought process in terms of what he did to help set it up. And the way that that was a conscious plan. And I thought that was really interesting. Nice. Nice one, Sid. Well, yeah, looking forward to reading it. Let's get back to Spain, England. You mentioned, you know, what you do when you're world champions.

10:32You know, first game, first game back. It must be, I mean, look, you know, Spain have gone from winning the Euros to winning the World Cup. But now it must be a slight, I don't know. It must be a bit difficult to kind of keep the momentum going, mustn't it? because you've just you've just reached the you know you've just climbed mount everest you've just like done the best thing you're ever going to do in football and what comes next is not it's not

10:54Alex Kirkland:easy yeah when you're to use the cliche to to murder the metaphor you've just begun there al um you know once you get to the top of a mountain there's only really one way to go and that's down it again unless somehow you can leap across the next range and obviously what what the kind of to really murder the metaphor the next stage of it is we'll go and climb another one and that's what they're trying to do. I think there's a few there are a few things that I think possibly mean that Spain can continue to do so. One of them is just the mentality they've got generally. The other is that Spain, with Spain, and we discussed this yesterday, didn't we?

11:28Alex Kirkland:We had this debate about whether Luis de la Fuente's Spain is the best one. There is still, in terms of success, they are still not there yet. Because, of course, they're always measured against another generation, which won Euros, World Cup, Euros. So there's maybe that's useful for them in a way because it says you're not there until you win the next one um i also think that you know there is i think there's something we don't always think of and there's this cliche which i think is true actually but but i also think it's a bit of a cliche which always says oh the easy thing is to get to the top the hard thing is to stay there now for what it's worth i don't think it's easy to get to the top so that's the first problem of the cliche you know and it's harder to stay there i don't know i reckon it might be harder to get to that point but i had this discussion funny enough this is a slightly random one but i had this discussion with andy goldberg who of course is the the owner of mallorca but a former tennis player and and he was talking about this with me and i said oh come on i said i said this is a bit of a cliche isn't it and and to be fair to him he did say look i'm not talking about me because he was never world number one but you know he was mates with people like matt's valander ivan lendle um that whole generation of great tennis players and he said you know i talked about this with them and And who was the, I think maybe it was Mats Verlander that the example came from.

12:41Alex Kirkland:And he said that Mats Verlander said that he'd been world number one briefly, but couldn't stay there. And one of the reasons was because you'll fight so hard to get there and then everyone's going for you. And that you kind of, you need something special to be there and you need something special to stay there because there's that weird noise. Can you hear that? It might have been a passing bus. Oh, that's right then. Wow. Yeah. For a moment there, I thought, well, something weird's happened. Sorry about that. Anyway, basically, he sort of justified this theory. But I think there's another thing that happens.

13:14Alex Kirkland:And I think that when you are the best and you win all the time, there's almost a pressure to stay there. But the sense of failure of then losing is almost greater than it is for the team that wasn't winning before anyway. If you lose now, it's like, oh, shit, we were supposed to be the best and we've lost now. And so I think there's a degree of pressure there, which might not be a bad thing for them. I think they apply that pressure on themselves. I think listening to Lamin yesterday, for example, he talks a lot about, well, why not get another one? Why not be the best team ever? Why not win two or three or four of these?

13:48Alex Kirkland:Why not keep on going? And obviously, it's easy to say it's harder to do it. But I do think that Spain have some of the qualities for it. I also think that because Spain are such a, what would I call them? stylistically continuous team. I mean, that's... Yeah, it's more about the collective and the collective style than necessarily about... Exactly. ...individuals, of course, you've got Lamin. But otherwise, yeah, it feels a bit like the pieces can change, but the overall picture... The pieces can change and maybe even the motivation can change in a way in that maybe some of them can feel, well, we've got it now, but maybe those players can be moved on and other players come in.

14:26Alex Kirkland:And maybe the fact that you've got such a clear style kind of sees you through some of those slight troughs in motivation. I don't know. That's a theory anyway. It's very conceptual. It's not very concrete, but I think there might be something in that. Having uncontrolled eosinophilic esophagitis or EOE can mean you're stuck in many ways, like cutting your food into tiny pieces or stuck chewing food for a long time. Dupixin Dupilumab, a prescription medicine for patients one year and older weighing at least 33 pounds can help with that. It's a breakthrough treatment that can reduce inflammation in the esophagus and improve swallowing.

15:05You can get with this or you can get with that. How about this? Dupixent is not a steroid. It proactively treats EOE so you can get ahead of it. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or wheezing or swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or throat. Tell your doctor of newer worsening joint aches and pain or a parasitic infection or asthma. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Feeling stuck with EOE? Start treating with Dupixent. Talk to your gastroenterologist or allergist today about Dupixent.

15:35Learn more at Dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT. Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We go V! We go V! Ask your prescriber about WeGoV, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOV or visit wegovi.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about WeGoV. Why wait? WeGoV! This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

16:25Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. We'll find out over the next kind of two-year periods. You mentioned changes in the team. How different, if at all, do we expect the team at Wembley to be to the one we saw at the World Cup?

16:47Alex Kirkland:I don't think we expect it to be very different at all obviously Marco Cholente isn't there but then he didn't start in the final anyway Pedro Porro isn't there because who did start ahead of him isn't there we think Eric Garcia Eric was on the front pages of at least two of the papers today being sort of lined up as the right back yeah and Luis Delfrenti said that himself in fact when the squad was named because he was asked about Marco Cholente he said my right backs are because he only had one really are Pedro Porro and Eric Garcia Pedro Porro is now out the side Ivan Flesneda was called up But I think it will be Eric Garcia.

17:17Alex Kirkland:I actually think that does change them quite a lot because I think stylistically, he's a completely different player. Particularly to Pedro Porro and to Llorente as well. But Llorente didn't have the kind of, if you like, Llorente had the physicality, but maybe not the enthusiasm, if you like, of Pedro Porro. Well, and Llorente and Eric are both kind of like players you can fit into all kinds of different positions and they can perform, whereas Pedro Porro is sort of one thing and good at that thing. Exactly. I also think obviously the moment is different. And, you know, we've been talking a minute ago about motivation and stuff.

17:48Alex Kirkland:And I do think the moment is different. I do think there is a bit of a mindset that says we're back to being Spain being a problem and in the way rather than the thing that everyone's watching, which they had, you know, thankfully become for a couple of weeks in the summer. And it wasn't the whole tournament. It was probably only a couple of weeks, but they did become that thing. I do think there's a sense of honouring what they've done and trying to support it. The rest of the team, how different will it be? I think it would be Koubasi and Laporte. I think it would be Koukadea. I think it would be Rodri with Pedri.

18:17Alex Kirkland:And I would guess Fabian. I think we might see three of them. And I think we might see something closer to a 4-3-3 than a 4-2-3-1, which we saw at the Euros. But then I also wonder about Olmo because Olmo's not had many opportunities at the start of the season for Barcelona. And I actually think that Luis de la Fuente is probably more alert to this. I was going to say the psychology. Is that the right word? I suppose it is. The psychology or the emotional side of it than we think. And I think he may well think, Olmo, who's not getting the opportunities, I need to kind of back him and encourage him.

18:49Alex Kirkland:Because Olmo was wonderful at the World Cup as well. So maybe it will only be one of Pedri or Ferdermin. And I wonder if Pedri and Rodri, which was seen as a potential problem for Spain at the World Cup, and Pedri dropped out, now that they're playing together for Barca, if that problem, although the roles aren't exactly the same, and the style, maybe that starts to go away. I think it does go away because they're playing together at Barcelona and that has two things. Obviously, the fundamental one is it gives them the time to adapt to playing with each other. That's the first thing. But I think the other thing is it gives a model for the Spain manager to follow.

19:24Alex Kirkland:It's not chance that the Spain manager turned to Pedri as a deeper midfielder when he started seeing how well it was working for Barcelona. Let's not forget that Luis Delfren, they thought Pedri was a number 10. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way. I'm not saying that as in like, oh, you idiot. But he had Pedri as a number 10 with a bit of freedom. And we all thought that was quite nice. But it sort of didn't work as well. And I think Pedri prefers the game a little bit more in front of him rather than turning in those tight spaces. I actually think Olmo is almost better at that than Pedri is.

19:48Alex Kirkland:And Pedri is a wonderful footballer. And he certainly could be a brilliant number 10 or at least a brilliant midfielder with a degree of freedom. I think what will happen at Barcelona is he will learn to embrace that freedom, but from slightly further back. And I think what will happen is that Luis de la Fonthe will see it. And if it starts to work, and obviously so far this early signs are it does work, then he would do so. But as something we said yesterday and I think this is worth repeating again, we shouldn't fall into the trap of assuming they're the same things. Barcelona's approach is very, very different and it's very different partly because of what's at the top of the pitch.

20:21Alex Kirkland:And not just now with Rafinha being this wild number nine who's everywhere and dragging the team around because that's very different to Oyathawa. But even when it wasn't Rafinha, even when it was either Ferran or Lewandowski, that was different and the approach is different and the line was played higher and the aggressiveness was different. And you know what I'm interested in seeing, Al, in this Spain team? What, for me, is the biggest change between the Euros and the World Cup? It's the two wingers, isn't it, really? And in the two wingers, in a way, I suppose what I'm really saying is the one winger, Nico.

20:55Alex Kirkland:But at the start of the tournament, it felt like it was both of them, didn't it? That this wasn't that dynamic team that would go long, that would have people running at you, because Nico wasn't really fit and Lamine arrived, not quite fit, and eventually got there, but arrived, not quite fit. and and so we saw an adaptation which basically meant Alex Baena so for me the big doubt is does Baena start or does Nico start and how long does that last and at what point does De La Fuente say you know what I want my flying left winger back rather than Baena who was brilliant at the World Cup but isn't a flying winger he's a different type of winger okay Sid you've got to go and write your Lamine interview and before we go we usually do predictions on this podcast you fancy your prediction for England-Spain?

21:35Alex Kirkland:Yeah. I mean, I think Spain are a better team. I do think Spain are a better team. I know that's not saying anything particularly amazing. I think they keep the ball better. It's just a bit of me that wonders if the occasion, the moment, the quality of the team in front of them. I am leaning towards a 1-1 now. But do you know what? As I did suggest that possibly Spain could lose, shall I stick my neck out and say that England win 2-1? Yeah, sure. Do what you like. Yeah, OK. Let's dip my neck out and say that England will win 2-1. OK, let's see how that goes. All right, Sid. Thanks for your time as always.

22:08I enjoy writing Lemine. Everybody go and read it in The Guardian when it's up on Saturday. And we'll be back next week. All the usual TSFB action. International break continues, but we'll still have Monday pod talking about what happens at Wembley and then the Q &A pod and everything else. So join us for that. But bye-bye for now.

22:25Alex Kirkland:Cheerio.

22:35Thank you.

23:01can mean you're stuck in many ways, like cutting your food into tiny pieces, or stuck chewing food for a long time. Dupixent Dupilumab, a prescription medicine for patients one year and older weighing at least 33 pounds can help with that. It's a breakthrough treatment that can reduce inflammation in the esophagus and improve swallowing. How about this? Dupixent is not a steroid. It proactively treats EOE so you can get ahead of it. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or wheezing or swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or throat.

23:38Tell your doctor of new or worsening joint aches and pain or a parasitic infection or asthma. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Feeling stuck with EOE? Start treating with Dupixent. Talk to your gastroenterologist or allergist today about Dupixent. Learn more at Dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT. Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We go V! We go V! Ask your prescriber about Wegovy, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOV or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

24:22We go V!