He Getafe'd Getafe

0:07Hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition of the Spanish Shotwell podcast. I'm Phil Kitramelidi. Sid Lowe is alongside me as ever as he has been for the last 13 years or so. Hello Sidney. Hello Philip. You all right? Yeah not too bad thank you yeah. Good. Monday morning as ever the busiest time of the week for Dr Lowe. What are you writing about this week? Well I mean all the things that I liked the idea of writing about didn't quite come off. Right. I thought that the really nice one for me actually was was Edda Sarabia and everything that's happening at Elche and playing against Athletic for the first time in the club that he always grew up wanting to play for and receiving the Manager of the Month award from his father, Manu.

0:45And it turned out to be a 0-0 draw. Yeah, I mean, you've spoken to Edith Sarabia, haven't you, for the last few weeks? And you've been desperately trying to sort of crowbar that into a column. I think Elche's the big story this week. Oh, yeah, I'm going to do Elche. And then it just doesn't happen, does it? Yeah. So obviously, I think you have to look at it this weekend in terms of the way that the big two in the week building up to the Clasico managed to get victories in not particularly impressive performances. Absolutely. Let's touch upon what happened on Match Day 9. We'll quickly skim over what happened on Friday night.

1:18Sydney was at the Carlos Tartiere to see Oviedo really quite comprehensively beaten 2-0 by Espanyol. Espanyol looking at a much better cohesive outfit than Oviedo on that Friday evening. Then Saturday, an extraordinary comeback from Mallorca. They were 1-0 down against Sevilla and they scored three goals in 10 minutes to win 3-1 and move off the bottom of the table. Barcelona needed a 93rd minute winner from Ronald Araujo to beat Girona 2-1 in a Catalan derby at Montjuic. More on that in a second. Villarreal against Betis was 2-2. It was a brilliant game. It really often is when these two sides meet.

1:55It's turning into one of my favourite fixtures in La Liga. More on that in this week's newsletter, which will be out for patrons a little bit later on. Villarreal 2, Betis 2. And Atletico Madrid beat Osasuna 1-0 at the Metropolitano. So it was an important victory for Atleti, who played well during large swathes of the game, but needed a massive save from Yad Oblak right at the end to secure all three points. Then on Sunday, as you mentioned, Elche and Athletic Club finished 0-0. It's a really disappointing start to the season from Athletic Club, and they just do not look like anywhere near the standard of play that they had last season.

2:33Celta Vigo obviously drew 1-1, obviously. I don't even have to tell you that their game against Real Sociedad finished 1-1. their seventh 1-1 of the season. I mean, this is genuinely getting beyond a joke now. How many 1-1s can a team get during the season? We're about to find out because Celta are going to set the new record. Match day nine, their seventh 1-1 of the season against Real Sociedad. The mighty, glorious, beautiful, magnificent Rayo Vallecano with a 3-0 victory over Levante at the Ciudad de Valencia Stadium. Two goals from Jorge de Frutos. Fruity George scoring on his return to his former club and very ostentatiously not celebrating either goal.

3:14And then Real Madrid beat Getafe 1-0 in a game which finished late last night at the Coliseum Alfonso Pérez. Monday, it's not called that anymore, is it? It's just the Coliseum. No, Alfonso has been ditched. He's been cancelled, absolutely cancelled. Just the Coliseum now, yeah. Just the Coliseum. Monday night football is Alaves against Valencia. It's the Clásico this weekend, so you might want to join us over at patreon.com forward slash TSFP. I mean, you might want to join us anyway, every week, but particularly building up to the biggest fixture in world football. Membership starts at just€4.75 a month, which is just over a quid a week.

3:48You get the Monday and Friday podcasts without any adverts. You get the Q &A pod every Tuesday, the bonus pod every Thursday. There's the newsletter. There's the Discord. There's Zoom calls with us. There's the TSFP diary. There's loads of stuff going on there. If you like Spanish football, you get loads of content there and membership starts at just€4.75 a month. Sydney, you got back from the Coliseum late last night, having seen Real Madrid beat Catafé by a goal to nil, the only goal scored by Kylian Mbappé. Well taken goal, although he probably should have scored earlier on in the game. It came late on after what had been a typical game.

4:26We knew this was going to be the game. It played out like that. Xabi Alonso said, coming to Getafe, you know it might not be a nice game. It wasn't a nice game, Sid. No, it wasn't. I also didn't think, though, that it was a particularly dirty one or a particularly cheaty one until kind of a bit later on in the game. I thought Getafe kept Real Madrid larger arm's length. I think there was a couple of very good chances early on for Mbappé, both inside the first 10 minutes. And at that point, I thought, actually, Getafe are going to be cut open. But they managed to, I don't know if they readjusted or just kind of were a little bit more alert to Mbappé from then on.

4:59And really and truly, Madrid didn't do very much at all. Getafe didn't do a huge amount, but they had a couple of semi-decent chances. There's that San Crist folly in particular that flies just past the post. And it was looking like a game that Getafe had under control, except, of course, it's Real Madrid. So you always feel like there's enough quality on the pitch. It's only going to take one moment. You've got a player like Mbappé. You've got changes you can make from the bench. So both Vinicius and Ardegula went on. Raul Asensio did as well. I don't think that's what changes the game. Obviously, it's the other two changes that do it.

5:32And eventually, Real Madrid got a victory, which is a really, really big one. Now, they got it, of course, with two red cards for Getafe. One of them, I suppose you can say, is the decisive one because the goal comes soon after it. The second one comes much, much later on. But then even with nine men, Getafe almost caught Real Madrid. There's a great chance for Abel Kamado right at the very, very end where Courtois, who hadn't had to do very much, makes a really brilliant save. There is always a Thibaut Courtois save, almost always at least one Thibaut Courtois save, and this one came deep into stoppage time, which would have meant a really dramatic equaliser for Getafe and a really massive blow for Real Madrid.

6:13if they drop points to nine-man Getafe the week before the Clasico, all hell would have broken loose. As it is, we're here talking about a pretty solid performance from Real Madrid. It wasn't spectacular, but they should have won this game. You look at the stats, you look at the chances, you look at the XG, the shots, the shots on target, touches inside the box for Real Madrid. Absolutely dominating. You know what you're going to get when you play against Getafe. Sydney, you were there and you were pitch side and you had Vinicius right in front of you when he came on. He came on in the second half and he made things happen, not necessarily with his football.

6:47I didn't think he looked particularly sharp when he came on, but he made things happen by provoking fouls and ultimately provoking that first red card. Yeah, it was actually really amazing to watch. And I had him right in front of me. We're talking two metres from me, if that. and watching that process of how the game shifts with him coming on, because, as you say, because of the way that he draws people into fouls, or maybe a more accurate way of putting it would be effectively invents fouls at times. The very first thing he did, I think it was on Juan Iglesias. Essentially, I mean, look, let's kind of try and define this.

7:27Essentially, what Vinicius did was Getafe, Getafe. Oh, yes. the very first one he got he gets the ball and sees I think it's Juan Iglesias coming and basically throws himself at Iglesias goes to ground wins the foul which he you know the contact has been entirely created by him sees the opportunity to kind of go into Juan Iglesias wins the foul goes down holding his face gets up laughs in Juan Iglesias face and you think right this game has gone into a different phase now and it's very interesting and I was talking to a Brazilian colleague about this yesterday and he said, look, I can accept the argument that Vinicius was provocative and that Vinicius wound it up and that Vinicius was a troublemaker in any game except against Getafe.

8:10If ever there's a team that doesn't have, if you like, the moral authority to complain about this, it's Getafe. Juan Iglesias apparently said to Vinicius, that's why everybody hates you. Yeah. And actually, do you know what? I mean, I think, yes, well, exactly. And of course, Juan Iglesias will understand that and will know that. Now, for what it's worth, Juan Iglesias is by no means, not even close to being the sort of the embodiment of Getafe. In terms of if you take the Getafe players and say, who's the one that really gets under your skin, that's provoking you, that's saying things to you, that's pushing you and shoving you, it's not actually him.

8:45And so I can see on a kind of personal level. But as you say, yeah, I mean, it's the context of what you're doing. And he spoke post-game, Juan Iglesias, actually to us. and one of the questions I answered to him was, do you think Vinicius changed the game? He said, it's not that he changed the game, it's that he wound the game up. And he said, and you look at some of his teammates and they don't need to do that. You look at Militao or Mbappé, who are actually the two that come to confront Juan Iglesias when he's confronting Vinicius. And he says, they don't do it. They don't insult you. They're not having a go at you.

9:15They're not trying to provoke you. Now, obviously, I think one of the things is that if you play the way that Getafe play, surely you of any team should have the tools to not be drawn into that. And, you know, for what it's worth, I think the foul, and I'm sure most of our listeners will have seen it now, if not, go and have a quick look, if you can, from Neon that gets him sent off. He's been on the pitch 39 seconds. Now, Vinicius is, the ball's not even there. The ball's miles away. The attack is about, in fairness, though, the attack is about to be launched and Vinicius starts his run and he sort of runs off the touchline inside and Neon goes across to stop him.

9:53Now, I personally think there's a couple of things that happen here. And I think this is why you can point the finger at both of them. Neom, basically, I think, is not just trying to stop him. He's trying to say, first challenge, just let him know I'm here. It's a message. Although I think it's an incredibly bizarre message, considering I think one of the reasons why the change is made is that Juan Iglesias has already been booked. And I think you're saying, right, we don't want to fall back up against Vinicius, who's got a yellow card. Well, 39 seconds later, you've got a full back up against Vinicius, who's got a red card.

10:23And I think Neom is very daft because I think he puts a foot across him. I think he puts an arm across him as well. But I think it's a little bit like the first one with Vinicius. Vinicius, I think, sees it coming and goes over it and absolutely makes the most of it and gets a red card. Now, for what it's worth, I think it probably is a red card because of the nature of the challenge. Yeah. I think, I personally think if he'd got out a yellow, no one would have said anything. No. Everyone would have been completely accepted it as yellow. And in my view, that's a yellow. But then I think all of our listeners know, conceptually, I think we've set the bar far too low for red cards in Spain generally.

10:58All right. Actually for yellow cards as well. But anyway, it was fascinating to watch. And it was really, really, a really good insight into that kind of part of the game. And that, I suppose, what would you call it? sort of a trash-talking, street football-y sort of thing. I know those are both. I've just used two horrible cliches there, and I apologise, but I can't think of a better way of putting it. The idea of you get them to be provoked, and Vinicius, I think, was enjoying it. I think it's an important point to make, by the way, a very important distinction to make here. This wasn't Vinicius being angry and confronting people because he was angry.

11:35This was Vinicius choosing, this is the way to win this game, and he hit a foot, hit a foot. He absolutely did. Let's talk about some, I mean, I thought it was important to get your sort of insight on this because you were pitch side. This was right in front of you. Yeah, genuinely, exactly. Particularly this game as well, which hinged on this kind of, this kind of actions. No, no, it definitely did. Exactly. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm slightly impatient with how the polemica and the controversy leads everything in Spanish coverage of football. but having sat last night so close to it, I genuinely thought it was fascinating.

12:07This for me is an attempt to tell people what it was like and it was really, really interesting that awareness all the time when you receive the ball, there's the defender, go for the defender, basically make the defender foul me. It was really interesting. Some other issues to talk about from the game. What about the starting XI for the Clasico, which is coming up on Sunday? They do have a game in the Champions League midweek against Juventus, which is a big one. Who's going to be in that starting XI? In the midfield, we had Chiamini, Kamavinga and Bellingham start this game with Mastantono out on the right-hand side.

12:44Gula presumably comes into the starting XI. Fede Valverde presumably stays right back, although maybe Trent is back for that game. We don't know. But what sort of clues did you get from yesterday's match? Yeah, well, I thought this game wasn't particularly helpful from a clue point of view. And I think it's not helpful for a couple of reasons. I think one is the very basic thing of it's the first game post-international break. And it's also the first game before both Juventus and Barcelona. So I think what this tells us is about preparing a week and protecting it. The other thing, of course, is that it comes with a whole load of injuries.

13:17And if you go through them, they're nearly all at the back. So it's Rudiger, Cardo Bajal, Trent Alexander, Arnold, Halson, Mendy. And Fabio is the only one who's not a defender. Now, because you've got all those defenders missing, you've got Fede Valverde at right back. Now, I'm not even entirely sure that even then I thought it might be that they would play with Raul Asenthiot right back and Fede would play in a sort of midfield-y role. It was interesting pre-game. And obviously, I wasn't watching this, but my producer, because we were preparing the game, said, look, Real Madrid TV are saying that they think it's three at the back and two wing-backs.

13:48That Fede's a wing-back on the right and that Camavinga's a wing-back on the left and that it's a line of three behind them. It absolutely wasn't that. It absolutely was not that at all. So I think you're right. Fede Valverde probably stays at right back if there's no really significant return from injury before the Clasico. And it's possible that Carver Howell makes it. I don't think he will, but I think it's possible. Then you look at that midfield and you think, well, Germany definitely starts. I think you're right. Coming on and playing the pass and being as important as you want, I think Arda Goula starts.

14:17I think Bellingham probably starts, although I wasn't that over-impressed with him last night. I thought he started quite well and then sort of drifted from the game a little bit. And I actually didn't think that yesterday's structure really told us very much. It was broadly a 4-2-3-1, him behind the forwards. I didn't think that really told us very much. I think Vinicius starts, not Rodrigo as yesterday. And Camavinga, who was the one really big doubt, this was an opportunity for him. I don't think it's an opportunity he took, to be honest with you. OK, well, we'll see. There are plenty of options and permutations for Xavi Alonso to play with.

14:52The Clasico is on Sunday afternoon. looking forward to it at the Bernabeu Real Madrid against Barcelona. Before we move on, I just want to give a quick shout out to a Getafe player who we have mentioned before, and I think could play with all due respect to Getafe at a much higher level. Luis Milla, man, he's such a good footballer. He's leading La Liga for assists, by the way, this season, just FYI. But what a terrific player he is. I mean, he's 31. He's probably not going to move to a bigger club now. There were suggestions he might have moved to Atletico Madrid in the last 12 months. That never happened.

15:27But I just really, I really enjoy watching him play. And not just when he's delivering these incredible balls into the box, but he's just such an intelligent footballer. Shout out to Luis Milla. Yeah. I mean, as our regular listeners may know, I used to watch him play for Funda Brother. Of course you did. And he was just so, so much better than everyone else. It was glorious watching him play. I know obviously the context is that he was playing at Silva and we're now talking about someone who you're saying should play higher than Getafe. It should be at an Atletico Madrid or someone like that.

15:58But honestly, just wonderful. And those qualities haven't been lost. What's been added, I think, is a steal to his game. He's always been incredibly serious about how he prepares the game. Maybe almost to the point slightly of obsessiveness over things like diet and so on. But yeah, I really, really like him. Shout out to Luis Milla Jr. and his performance at Getafe, beaten 1-0 at home by Real Madrid. This episode, Phil, of TSFP is brought to you by our friends at NordVPN. Certainly is, Sid. Now, you guys know we travel a lot covering Spanish football, whether it's following Spanish teams around Europe in the Champions League.

16:36Or going to free games in a weekend. The best way to make sure you've got access to all your content from back home is using NordVPN. me and Al actually used it ourselves over the summer of the club world cup and it works brilliantly yeah you can keep up with the football tv shows or movies nordvpn lets you access your subscriptions back home wherever you are and and this is really important it's really easy to use so if you're tech savvy like some of us yes don't worry or not or not so tech savvy uh it's it's very very easy it also improves your internet security which is important if you spend a lot using public Wi-Fi networks, like at train stations or airports or hotel lobbies.

17:15Basically those places where I am, you know, 90 % of the time. You can connect with just one click. It's one of the fastest VPNs around and you can use up to 10 devices with one account. For more information, and this is really important, you need to head to nordvpn.com forward slash TSFP. And there's a 30-day money-back guarantee and you get four extra months for free. What was that link again, Phil? It's nordvpn.com forward slash t-s-f-p. Now we'll continue to talk about football in just a second, but there is something obviously that we have to mention from this week, and it's particularly noteworthy.

17:57There was a protest before every single game in La Liga this weekend on Matchday 9 from players against the game in Miami. La Liga have organised and announced that Villarreal against Barcelona is going to take place on the 20th of December in Miami. And the Players' Union, Sid, called this protest and this 15-20 second strike, which took place before every match this weekend. You may or may not have seen it wherever you're watching around the world. But yeah, this was called by the Players' Union, Sid. Yeah, I think there's an important caveat to add here. And I've been kind of banging on about this a bit.

18:43And in a moment or two, I'll explain one of the reasons why I've been banging on about it a bit. Is that there's an assumption, I think, that the Players Union did this protest because they are determinedly opposed to the game in Miami. They've never actually said that. They've never actually said that. In my opinion, they've lacked the courage to say that or maybe lacked the unanimity to say that. I don't think that within the players group, there is actually a unanimous decision to be against this. I think some players don't care, particularly. I think some players sort of don't mind very much.

19:16I think some players will obviously be opposed to it. I think the players involved probably don't really fancy it very much, although there might be some of them that think this is a bit of an experience. I think the most important thing is that what the players union is complaining about, really, is that they haven't been consulted, that they haven't been spoken to, that this hasn't been, if you like, a process that has taken them into account. And so I actually think in a way, so for example, stopping for 15 seconds this weekend at the start of each game is kind of quite a big statement. But in a way, it's one that doesn't really change very much in that you do 15 seconds and the game goes on and kind of everyone forgets about it.

19:52And in a way, I think that's kind of the embodiment of their stance on this. This isn't them saying, we will not let you play this game. This is them saying, well, why didn't you talk to us? And now, of course, the league is now saying, well, we're open to dialogue whenever you want. That's really not true. But so I think in a way, there's a bit of me that thinks this will ultimately end up in nothing. And I don't want to sound over cynical, but let me sound over cynical for a moment. Essentially, the complaint is you haven't consulted us. Well, to be honest, I think the response to that is no.

20:22And nor will they. And nor in the end will you actually do anything to stop this game. because, as I say, that's not really necessarily, at least as far as they've said so far, their endgame in this. The Players' Union are not saying, we're going to stop this. They're saying, how can you not have talked to us? Right. They just want to be involved in the discussions. Yeah, and then probably lose the discussion. You know, even if they now do say, actually, we're opposed to it, I don't think they've got the leverage or the determination to force through that leverage to stop the game. And, you know, this was described as a strike.

20:55As I say, as strikes go, it's a fairly rubbish one it's like it's like going into work standing at the the offices of work and say boo down with this kind of thing right everyone back on with work then um are we expecting more of this kind of thing i guess we might have uh i think that there may now be some attempts if only because it's become public to to kind of what what do you call in english kind of make a point of or or you know express the idea that we're talking to them now you know that we'll we'll we'll invite them to a meeting or we'll we'll set up a meeting and actually there has been some talk about some dates where La Liga and the players unions don't necessarily agree.

21:31I think one of the reasons was that the players union will correct me if I'm wrong on this. I think I've understood this right. The players union was saying you can't set a date after the tickets have already gone on sale because you're effectively making this impossible for us to stop this anyway. So what they want the league to think, or at least what they're allowing the league to believe is that we could still oppose this. But at no point have they actually said we are against this game and I think that's a really really important um caveat to to put in I think that is important because I I wasn't aware of that I just understood that they were intrinsically against this well I mean we all understand that they're intrinsically against it but they've never actually said it if you read their statements at no point they they they mention the difficulties that it comes with it but at no point has the as the Afe the players union said we are against this game this game can't be taken out of Spain they're they're view and their voice in that sense is very different to, for example, Fast Faye, who equally, by the way, a fans, supporters group, equally won't be listened to.

22:33These are voices that are just not going to be heard, to be perfectly honest with you. We will monitor this situation. Obviously, it is ongoing and there will be more twists and turns, I'm sure. We've got questions on this, by the way, for our Q &A tomorrow. People have asked us questions, so we'll be answering them on the Q &A pod tomorrow. Back to the football. Barcelona beating Girona 2-1. Araujo coming off the bench and coming off the bench to be deployed as a number nine and duly scoring the winning goal in injury time. This was a funny, funny game because Barcelona started it absolutely dominating Girona.

23:11They had all the ball. Girona couldn't get anywhere near it. They tried to bring the ball out from the back and instantly lost it. Barcelona were all over them. They scored early on in the first 15 minutes or so. brilliant, brilliant goal from Pedro. And if you haven't seen it, the finish is just so ingenious. It's well worth a few seconds of your time to appreciate it. They were on top and then they scored and they just let Girona back into this game somehow. It helps when Axel Witzel scores an unbelievable bicycle kick, which nobody really expected to happen. But from then, I mean, Girona had three or four very, very, very clear-cut chances in that first half, which they really should have taken.

23:52They didn't in the second half. Barcelona were better. They created more chances. They should have scored earlier than the 92nd minute, but they didn't. They just about got away with it, Sid. And Hansi Flick has been banging on about an improvement in attitude and an improvement in commitment and intensity. And we didn't really see that. There was no reaction from this Barcelona side who were coming off the back, remember, of two consecutive defeats. Yeah, exactly. And there's a whole load of things to pick up on. Very briefly, let me pick up on the Axel Witzel thing, which I really loved. Because post-game, Mieche, the manager of Girona, was doing his post-game interview with, I think it was Daseun, wasn't it?