Matchday 15 Preview

0:07Hi everybody, welcome to the preview pod. It's me Alex Kirkland with Sid Lowe this morning. Kitro couldn't be with us. Sid you are ill on a scale of one to ten. kind of rank your illness level for us, please? Oh, hopefully not very ill. I think it's probably just a bit of flu. I did have a very strange night of lots of aches, including the bottom of my feet cramping. Okay. Which I don't know. I think that might be just a symptom of imminent relegation. Yeah. Is there any sense of this being linked to you having attended six games in six days all over Spain? No, of course not. No. Is there any sense that you might kind of moderate your behaviour in light of this outcome?

0:41Well, I mean, you could argue that I already have in that I'm now going to miss tonight's game in Oviedo. Yeah, that was my next question, my very next question. No, and it annoys me because, you know, if something was going to fall, why did it have to be this one? You know, this was at the end of the run, I suppose, but, you know, and it doesn't work like that. You know, why didn't I ditch the Coliseum on Friday and maybe make it to... But, you know, of course, you don't know. Yeah, I mean, these are the great kind of what-ifs, aren't they? Yeah. I'm supposed to be in Seville tomorrow as well for Betis against Barcelona.

1:11So let's see if I'm like that. Okay, let's see. OK, so match day 15, as I mentioned, starts off in Oviedo. I'll run you through the fixtures before we talk about some of them in greater detail. It is Oviedo against Mallorca this evening. A huge game, a game which Sid has said if Oviedo do not get a result tonight, they are down, it's over, it's finished. We can just wrap up the whole season, the whole season now. Saturday, we've got Villarreal against Getafe, Alaves against Real Sociedad, Betis against Barca, where Sid is supposed to be, the 6.30 gig of Spanish time, and then Atletic against Atletico Madrid.

1:45On Sunday, we've got Elche against Girona, Valencia against Sevilla, Espanyol against Rayo and Real Madrid against Celta Vigo at the Bernabeu. I'll be there for that one. And the Monday night game is Osasuna against Levante. Sid, we don't tend to dwell on the Friday night game because a lot of our listeners might listen to this on the Saturday morning, for example. But as I say, you've built this game very much as a final for Real Oviedo. Yes, and it's a cliche that I try and avoid at all costs, but you know what, this time I'm going to embrace it because it does feel to me like there isn't a tomorrow if we don't win today.

2:18Now, of course there is, but honestly, the situation would be really, really bad. I think one of the things that's happened with Oviedo is obviously that first start to the season was always going to be really difficult. You go away to Villarreal, you play Barcelona Real Madrid at home, you go away to Getafe, then you think maybe you get something out of Elche, you don't at that point, Elche are flying, and then you think okay then it settles into a series of games that in theory are an opportunity around about the time you choose to sack your manager and so you give that opportunity to a new manager now I think there are certain things we can see that Oviedo may be doing slightly better than before they're actually not losing that much it's been quite a lot of draws but really and truly those opportunities haven't been taken this is one that has to be and it's one that has to be and then needs to be followed up because Oviedo have Celta and Sevilla and what's the other one is before Christmas.

3:07So there's an opportunity before Christmas to maybe get a couple of wins and things would look really different. But I think it has to start tonight against a team that's down there with you. And yeah, I hate to be pessimistic, but I suppose it's the natural state of the football fan, isn't it? But I'm very, very pessimistic about our chances of surviving if we win. I mean, even if we do win, I still think there's obviously a good chance of the other to go down. Yeah, Oviedo, bottom of the table on nine points, the same number of points as Levante, then it's Girona and Osasuna You're on 12 points.

3:34And then it's Mallorca, tonight's opponents, on 13 points. So, yeah, this is very much a must-win game. And actually, you know what? Luis Carrion, the Oviedo manager, has been framing it in these terms as well, which I think in terms of the message to try and make it huge, and the fans are making a big deal of this almost as if it was a playoff final, you know, doing the fireworks guard of honour for the bus on the way up the road towards the stadium, trying to ensure that the place is absolutely packed and noisy. Unfortunately, there will be two seats empty. I'm going to see if I can find someone to actually take those so that the place isn't empty.

4:06Then, you know, there's been built into this big thing. And the manager has been saying this. This is the game that can change our season. If we win this, it will change. And even at the Metapolidano, he was saying to players, OK, it's net week. It's all about next week. It's all about Mallorca next week. Now, I think obviously you build it up because you're desperate to win it. The problem with that kind of discourse, I suppose, and the same discourse that I'm doing now is, what happens if you don't win? If you've done it all on that and then you don't win, Does everyone just kind of down tools?

4:32Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's see. What about the early game on Saturday, Sid? Villarreal against Getafe. Villarreal currently third on 32 points. If they win this game, they go up to 35 points, which would be a point behind Real Madrid and two points off the top of the table. Now, we've talked about Villarreal probably not being genuine title contenders, but nonetheless, you know, it's their best ever start. They've put themselves in a very good position. Yeah, they have put themselves in a really good position. and as we've talked about I think in a way it's the it's the application of logic with Villarreal in fact in a way that's kind of frustrating how logical they are in that they they beat the teams they should be they don't beat the teams they shouldn't be and you sort of want a bit more fluctuation for for excitement's sake if nothing else they are physically pretty strong they've got strength in depth they've got a quality and just an amount of volume of talent that I don't think anyone outside the top three has I think in that sense they are clearly the best of the other teams.

5:28And what they're doing, I think, is just being really, really consistent in demonstrating that in La Liga. The pity is that then, obviously, against Real Madrid, they don't really turn up. Against Atletico Madrid, they didn't play particularly well. So you get in this thing and you think, is there almost a sense of them... I don't know what the English translation of this is. They're there to complete. It's just to kind of fulfil what they should be. And every now and again, you want maybe a little bit more. And I think actually the Champions League, the response to Champions League says something similar, because they've come up against teams with the exception of, it was Pathos, wasn't it, that was the really embarrassing one.

6:02They've essentially lost to teams that you would expect them to lose to. This is an interesting one, I suppose, insofar as Getafe always are. Getafe always propose a different type of approach. And here's the thing that maybe hasn't been talked about that much with VRL. VRL are a team, I think, with the talent and the quality that no one outside the top three have. But they play mostly on the counter-attack. They play relatively deep and hit teams on the break. I think if we look at their possession stats, I haven't got them in front of me, but they're not particularly high. Even their shot creation stats are not that high compared to some of the teams in the sort of top seven or eight.

6:40And I feel like Getafe is interesting because Getafe are going to oblige them to carry the game rather than to play in a kind of... I mean, they're not an entirely reactive team. That would be really, really unfair to say that. But they are a team that are better running into space. And I get the feeling that Getafe will try and prevent them from being allowed to do so. Yeah, you mentioned the top seven or eight. Getafe are in the top seven right now. They are in seventh place, which is absolutely incredible, given the squad they've got, the limitations they had going into this season. I mean, Bordelass is Bordelassing once again.

7:12Let's move on to the game that you should be at on Saturday afternoon, if fitness and health allow. Betis against Barca. Betis... Yeah, I've got a late fitness test. Do I have a late fitness test on the morning of the game? How does that work? Do I have to run around the park a few times and see how I am? You've got to do a sort of a pretend piece to camera and see if you can get through it without coughing and spluttering, I think. Betis should be going into this game on a real high after what happened in the Seville Derby sit. They should be. And the Seville Derby, I think, reinforces them, not just because they won it, which, of course, is the most important thing, but because they won it with a, what do you call it in English?

7:49A solventia, kind of assuredness. Is that the right word? Yeah, kind of convincing. A convincing superiority. They were just very, very much better than Sevilla. Now, that would be me saying that is possibly not a reflection of the first half of what was a really awful game in the first half. That was almost nothing happening. But they look strong. They've got a clear sense of their identity. I thought actually in the Seville derby a little bit more than in some of their other games. They played teams and they played on the break a little bit. They opened the pitch out. They went at Seville with relatively quick transitions.

8:23And I suspect that will be part of what they try to apply to Barcelona, because we've been talking all season about Barcelona on the high line and teams have seen that. And Manuel Pellegrini is a coach that has always wanted lots of talented technical players inside. But if he looks at Barcelona and thinks, well, you know what? if we can go outside and beyond them into the space between fullback and central defender, or even directly beyond the fullback, then we'll do it. As far as I'm aware, Isco's still not back, which is obviously a pity for them. Anthony's got another game of suspension. I think it was two games, wasn't it, the man?

8:56So obviously that has a real impact. So let's see how they play and how they structure that midfield. And I'm looking forward to it. I was thinking the other day, I can't remember, did we talk about this off air? Betis seem to have so many players. You think, oh, what a good guy. So I'm quite looking forward as much as I've got the chance to talk to him post-game. You know, you listen to Isco comes across really, really well these days. You know, how well he talks and sort of how alert to things he is. Bellerin, who unfortunately is another one that's injured. So those two won't be talking to me post-game.

9:27Pablo Fornaus comes across as being a really lovely bloke. They've got a lot of them. Yeah, I'm just reading up on some Betis injury latest. this was from one of the local papers yesterday. They had, Diolo Celso was going to sort of see today if he'd be available tomorrow. Well, he did that last week. Last week he came out of the clinic on the Friday morning, I think it was, and had journalists there waiting for him. And he said, it's tough, but I'm going to see if I can make it. And so a week on, you would like to think if he thought there was a chance last week, he should be able to do this, as you say.

9:56Isco not ready, as you say. Anthony, is Anthony definitely suspended? Because it's saying here that he was going to see how his fitness was today in training. Ah, well, I thought it was two games, so I may well be wrong. Maybe it was only one. OK. We don't know. Quite possibly he might be available. Oh, I hope so then. Yeah. The late game on Saturday is a really interesting one. It's San Mame's Athletic Club against Atletico Madrid after what happened in midweek when Atletico were really, really poor against a really good Real Madrid side and were comprehensively beaten at home. They play at home again against another very good team who also played, of course, in midweek.

10:32important for Atleti having played all right, played pretty well against Barca, but having lost to get back to winning ways. And Atletic, I mean, if they were to be really disappointing again at home for the second time in a week, that would really kind of cement the, I don't know, the feeling that this team is kind of going nowhere right now, wouldn't it? Well, I know it's the weekend preview, but let's add another game into it. They've got PSG midweek. And as this was their big week, their big kind of exciting week of Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, PSG. And yet, of course, that was always, that opportunity was always a potential problem.

11:13It was always, hang on, there's a chance you come out of this getting beaten and heavily beaten in all of them. And I think you're right, there will be huge disappointment. I do think there's one of the great things about Athletic Club, one of the many great things about Athletic Club, I think is an awareness, is a kind of realism that goes with their approach. And I think there is a sense of community. Now, we talk about this a lot with Athletic, but I think it's worth framing this around the actual team itself, a sense of community around the actual team itself. And I interviewed Urai Sivan at the start of the Champions League campaign.

11:46It must have been before they played Arsenal. And he said that one of the things that he's always thought, one of the reasons why he's never been keen to leave Athletic, he said because I think in the bad times I still enjoy it here in the bad times I still feel supported here and he said I might you know it might well be that I could sign for a big club and have really good good times but it will never be the same when it goes bad and he said and we are capable of coming through that now obviously they are capable of coming through that emotionally um in terms of the group in terms of in terms of if you like the kind of the what do you call it the social environment but there is a footballing reality and the footballing reality is they are not very good.

12:24You know, their best players, their best players are missing. Iñaki Williams, Sunset, Nico Williams might as well be missing with the Pulvalgia, although it is true that he's, in the last four games, he scored two absolutely brilliant goals against Oviedo and against Levante, although it was Oviedo and Levante and not Real Madrid, you know, and Oviedo and Levante. I think I'm in a position to say for at least 50 % of those teams are not very good. And so I do, I think you're right and I think there is, there is the risk that this season becomes a bit flat for Athletic. Now, Athletic have two opportunities to rescue that.

12:57One is the Copa de la Re and one is the Super Cup. And those are two competitions that really do matter for them. I also think that if they were to somehow sneak through, even if it's through that extra round of the Champions League, there would be a sense that actually that has been an OK Champions League campaign. OK, let's pick out a couple of games from Sunday because you aren't feeling well. So we thought we'd try and keep this relatively brief. I'll tell you what, let's talk about Espanyol-Rayo on Sunday, the 6.30 kick-off. Espanyol, another team, like Getafe, having a really good season, punching above their weight.

13:28They're currently sixth in the table. They're rubbing some people up the wrong way with the way that they play. But that's kind of, you know, whatever. But this could be... If Espanyol win this game against Rayo at home, which they have every chance of doing, they are having a phenomenal season, Sid. And I know you're a fan of the coach and you went and spoke to him and, you know, he's a real character. Yeah, what season they're having so far? Fantastic. Although we should probably caveat this by saying they've just got knocked out of the Copa Luray. Well, yes. Although maybe you can... Yeah, I mean, it can happen.

14:04Take that and think... Yeah, it can happen. And the manager said that, you know, we were... He used the word... He was quite sweary. That's one of the things I like about him. I think he said, you know, we were shit. We should be embarrassed. And it was only 1-0 away at Atletico Ballet are is. That's the kind of thing that can... It can happen. I think in La Liga, I was looking at the stats the other day. One of the things that's really, really interesting is Peremias. Peremias have more shots than anyone except Mbappé. And I think what that tells you, because bear in mind that Peremias is not actually a centre-forward.

14:34And I think what you see in Espanyol is they go for teams in what is, broadly speaking, you would say a counter-attacking way. But I don't think that's entirely a fair way to see them, because that tends to feel like a loaded phrase. they open the wings up and they run at you and they try and I think this is reflected in that Pedemir stat I think there is it's a very simple thing but I think they want to finish every move off, not to get caught in possession and have the other team turned back on them so I think that's one of the reasons why Pedemir is taking a lot of shots the move ends, you make sure it ends that it doesn't end, that it isn't broken up and the other team running on you I think they've actually got a stronger team than last year I think they've got the continuity of identity that they had last year with a twist.

15:20And Manolo himself said, you know, there's a period last season when you think, you know, we can't keep doing this and get caught. And they were in big trouble around about midway through the season. He said, and you have to go and look at what you've got reasonably and say, OK, we make ourselves solid. We play on the counter-attack. We see what we can get. And then the following season, when new signings come in, when the players arrive, and of course, the big one really was Roberto arriving midway through last season. And he's playing well again, although scoring fewer goals than it felt like he maybe would, then you can start being a little bit more expansive.

15:51Or maybe not expansive is not probably quite the right word. A little bit more offensive. A little bit more determined to go at people. And I think they're fantastic. We didn't expect it, did we? Because to be perfectly honest, last year, we all looked at John Garcia and thought, that's the reason they survived. And when he's gone, they're in trouble. And it hasn't worked out that way. I don't think we've covered this on the pod. You and I are sort of rather fascinated by his incredible arm tattoo, which features his entire family, including his dog and did you get to talk to him about that when you when you met him or was it was it just a bit awkward you didn't want to say anything do you know what i think admire it now the thing was the thing was it actually wasn't that the conversation was so nice that i think i probably could have done without any problem um one of the things that's interesting about that i i didn't ask about that but there is an interesting little kind of side to that which is that at one point in the conversation he made a point of saying to me well i maybe made a point it's not fair because that makes it sound like he was trying to give me instructions he wasn't trying to give me instructions but I thought it was quite a pointed thing to say he said if you notice when I talk about family and support we were talking about pressure and getting family support and so on and talking about the fact that of course this is a guy that was driving buses that wasn't necessarily going to make it as a career and he talked about getting support from his family he talked about his family saying no you know we'll take this financial risk you keep trying to be a coach you keep trying to get there and then at some point I don't know if it's because I directly asked about his wife or something or his children.

17:15I can't remember. But he said, he actually said, if you notice, whenever I talk, you say you can read any interview with me, said you will never see me say anything other than the word family. He said, I will never mention them. I will never expose them. I will never name them. I will never put them out there. And I thought, but you just put them on your arm. I was going to say, except this massive tattoo on my forearm that is visible every single time on television yeah and the dog i i should have at least said to him what's the dog called because because you know being you know whenever i get to get a chance to talk to anyone about dogs i normally take the advantage take the opportunity yeah i let myself down by not doing it anyway we're big fans of manolo gonzalez and he's um having a great season by the way talking about the the coffee del rey their opponents rio were pushed all the way by real avila in their game they need a 94th minute equalizer from izzy and a 120th minute winner from Alvaro to actually go through to the next round.

18:09So they had a difficult night in the Copa del Rey as well. Okay, before we go, let's talk about the Sunday night game at the Bernabeu. I'll be there, Real Madrid against Celta. I mean, let's see if this sort of Real Madrid's, I hesitate to say revival because it's one game. Yeah, so do I. That's enough for a revival. But let's see if this continues, if we see what you guys talked about in the bonus pod, which was a seeming kind of acceptance from Xabi Alonso that this Real Madrid team are sort of better off playing almost the way they used to play under Carlo Ancelotti rather than trying to make the kind of radical changes that he was looking to implement earlier in the season.

18:48It worked against Athletic Club. Against Celta at home, do you see it working as well, Sid? I think they're better than Celta. And I think that Celta, I really like Celta. I really like watching them, but I think they're vulnerable. yeah I really I was gonna say I really like them as well but do I give them any chance of getting a result at the Bernabeu on Sunday no no not really no not really no exactly completely agree with you I feel like that they their approach is one that Real Madrid if this is the beginning of a building of if nothing else of a kind of a basis upon which to build for Real Madrid then it feels like Celta are quite an appropriate team to play and that and that you will be able to get beyond Celta that they will come and be brave and they may well cause Real Madrid some problems but I I think they will be there to be caught.

19:31So, yeah, I find it hard to imagine. I think what we might see, I wonder what you think about this, actually. Do you think that because Xabi went for what he went for at Athletic and maybe has seen that here's an idea I want to go forwards with or an idea that is working for some of the key players, in particular, of course, the two at the top of the pitch, and maybe even actually Trent Alexander-Arnold, who, though, is now out for two months. So that's a real question mark, by the way, what he does with that now, because a lot of what they did was diagonals from Trent in Bilbao. So maybe they go for Valverde there to have the legs and also Valverde can play those diagonals.

20:08Or maybe they go for Raul Asensio. He can play those balls, yeah. Yeah, but if they go for Raul Asensio, then obviously Valverde midfielder. If not, they've got to find a right-sided midfielder. So there you go. There you get Ardegula back in the team. Anyway, so the question I was going to ask you, which has just kind of almost been answered with that, is I wonder, do you, if Xavi Alonso will be trying to use the games that he considers that we can probably win doing something different to play those players that he's not going to use in the harder ones. Like when we see Mastuano and Arda and so on get these games, the slightly less muscular players get the games in the games where you think, man, maybe we don't need to be quite so muscular.

20:43Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. OK, let's see. So that's the weekend we are looking forward to. Sid, get well soon. I hope you feel better. I hope you make it to Betis against Barca on Saturday. If you do, please take care of yourself. We'll find out how you're feeling and how your weekend has been on the Monday pod, as always, when Kitcho will be back with us as well. So have a great weekend. Enjoy the football. And bye-bye for now. Cheerio.

21:26Thank you.