Mourinho's piece of paper

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1:27Hi everybody and welcome to the Spanish Football Podcast. It's me, Alex Kirkton, filling in for Kitra's today, but Sid Lowe is here. Hello, Sid, how are you? Good morning, Al. How are you doing? Typical Monday for you. Lots of writing ahead.

1:39Alex Kirkland:Yeah, I've been looking at Mourinho's piece of paper and I've also been looking in a very jealous way at my printer. And I thought to myself, how did Mourinho manage to find a printer that actually works and that the whole thing didn't end up with him laying into it and kicking lumps out of his printer while screaming abuse? I mean, to be fair, it might well have done. I'd like to know the process. If things keep going this way, there might be some printer abuse coming up before too long at Real Madrid. That's one of many big questions that we're going to tackle when discussing the Madrid derby, Sid, the biggest game, of course, of the weekend.

2:16But lots happened this weekend. We're going to talk all about it. But first, let's run through the results from Matchday 7. By the way, Sid, Kitscher and I handled the predictions on Friday. Oh, no. You were also kind enough to send us privately your own predictions. I wish I hadn't. Let's just say that me and Kitscher came out on top. Our combined brainpower defeated you, Sid. Maybe you weren't taking it seriously enough because you weren't on air when you were making the predictions. Maybe they were sort of throwaway predictions. I don't know. But anyway, we were.

2:43Alex Kirkland:No, I think, you know, if you and Kutro should be satisfied, I think most satisfied should be the Comité Técnico de Arbitros, who have clearly robbed me of this week's victory. All right, Jose. Okay. So, yeah, let's run through the results from match day seven, which kicked off on Friday with a first win, a much-needed win for Elche. 3-1 at Espanyol. Then continued on Saturday, a 1-1 draw between Osasuna and Rayo. and then a goalless draw between Athletic Club and Alaves. Athletic still not quite got going under Edin Terzic. A side that have, it looks like, finally got going. A big 5-0 win for them against Racing.

3:24And then a huge result on the Saturday night. Barcelona maintaining their 100 % records. Sevilla competed well in the first half. It wasn't enough. Barca won 3-1 at the Sanchez-Pisjuan. On Sunday, in a game that we predicted not just the result, but the scoreline. to see it, Phil and I. It was Getafe 1, Malaga 0. It was always going to be Getafe 1, Malaga 0. If you'd asked me, I think I would have said an 85th-minute goal for Getafe, and so it proved. After that, it was the Madrid derby. Both you and I were at the Metropolitano to see Atletico Madrid beat Real Madrid by two goals to one. We'll get into that in a second.

4:00After that, a 1-1 draw between Depor and Betis and a win, a second win in a row for Inigo Perez and Villarreal beating Levante by three goals to one. The late game was Valencia against Villarreal and Villarreal won three to a really exciting game, actually. I was about to say there was a game to come. Of course, there is no game to come on Monday night because it's international break time. Before we get going, you're listening to TSFP. Good decision, but don't you want more coverage of the best league in the world? Of course you do. So join us at patreon.com forward slash TSFP. It's just€4.75 a month.

4:34Patrons get the Monday and the Friday pods with no adverts. You get the Q &A pod on a Tuesday, the bonus pod on a Thursday. There's a new TSFP daily rounding up all the headlines five days a week. So come and join us. OK, Sid, Madrid derby, you've already touched on the big question. Does Jose Mourinho travel with a printer at all times? Because he was able to whip out that photo of those two potential, possible, probable red card challenges from Atletico in the first half. That's what Mourinho wants us to be talking about. Yeah. What should we be talking about after this game? Which Adetti won 1-2-1.

5:11Alex Kirkland:Yeah, I'm glad actually that you framed it like that because we are inevitably going to talk about Mourinho's reaction and it is the way that this whole game will be hung on. But I do think it's important that we talk about other things. And actually, I think in a way, even in terms of Mourinho wanting that to be the focal point, and this was about him complaining about two possible red cards for Atletico Madrid in the first half. All it's worth, by the way, I think he's right on both of them. At least one. At least one. It's definitely a red card. I didn't see it at the time, I have to say. Nor did I.

5:39Alex Kirkland:Nor did I. And one of the reasons we didn't see it is actually because Veli Valverde didn't sort of make very much of it. He kind of got back up and carried on. But anyway, and that obviously is what Mourinho wants. But I actually think it's counterproductive from Mourinho's point of view. Because in a way, what everyone is saying is, yes, but. and the but is that what we saw from Real Madrid was, I think it is conditioned by the fact that they go 1-0 down and a man down on, what was it, 55 minutes, I think, when Atletico Madrid get the goal, or maybe even earlier, 51, 52. And that, of course, conditions what comes next.

6:13Alex Kirkland:But it didn't condition what came before that. And what came before that post-game, Mourinho said that this was a performance in the first half of class. I think the words he used were class and character from Real Madrid in the first half. Look, I don't want to be overly dismissive about 45 minutes of football against a very good team. And Atletico Madrid are a very good team. And at home in particular, they're a team whose numbers are the numbers of a title winning team every season. The problem is, of course, away from home, Atletico aren't the same. So I don't want to overplay an analysis of just 45 minutes against a very good team at home who most sides struggle to beat.

6:51Alex Kirkland:Bear in mind that Atletico Madrid are the side that knocked Barcelona out of the Champions League and Nicola Le Re last year. So this can happen. But if we are going to do an analysis of that first half, I didn't see class or character. What I saw was a Real Madrid team that weren't necessarily doing anything terribly bad, but a Real Madrid team that didn't have the ball, didn't create chances, didn't really seem to want to create chances either, that seem to have decided that the way we're going to win this game is that at some point we'll get the opportunity to run and we'll catch them on the counter-attack.

7:25Alex Kirkland:Now, Atletico Madrid are very conscious of this, and Simeone had alluded to it pre-game, and then, of course, he analysed it post-game. And essentially what Atletico Madrid did was to try to ensure that they kept the ball as much as possible, that they moved as much as possible in a cautious way. So precisely so that Real Madrid couldn't run a counter-attack on them. Now, does that mean they would have always got away with it? Does that mean they would have won? No. But the feeling in the first half was that that first half, even if you felt, OK, this is sort of what Real Madrid want, was being led by Atletico Madrid.

8:00Alex Kirkland:Atletico Madrid had the ball. Atletico Madrid were more front-footed. Real Madrid had had the only shot on target, it's true, but that was kind of a 25-yard shot, more or less straight at Oblak from Alagula. There was one moment when it looked like Real Madrid might break away and who we all came across and made this great tackle on Mbappé. And the place roared. And you could sense that the place roared in part because they knew those are the things that are going to catch us out. And to be fair to Mourinho, that might have happened. They might have succeeded in doing that. And I also don't want to get over moralistic on this or puritanical about the Real Madrid approach.

8:38Alex Kirkland:But that first half was Real Madrid playing like that, playing as the little team, playing as the team that counts catches you on the break and so I just don't maybe little teams a bit pejorative isn't it like exactly that's why I'm care exactly that's why I was saying I don't want to go down that moralistic yeah it's I think it's a legitimate approach if it of course it is absolutely but yeah I mean you know Madrid did nothing in that in that first half atleti in the first half didn't do an awful lot either it was a really poor game actually we thought didn't we in that first yeah very very poor but I also felt that Atletico couldn't so so let's pick up on your point and I I I realise this is more your point from what me and you were talking about post-game, walking back to the car after the match, than it is from what you just said.

9:18Alex Kirkland:We could have just recorded that. We could have just done that. That 20-minute walk, actually. We probably should have done. But it alludes to what you've just talked about there, which is that even in the context of the things that Real Madrid are supposedly trying to do, those things didn't happen. We were talking about this yesterday. This idea that Real Madrid would be defensive very strong and catch on a break and create the chances. They didn't create any of those chances yesterday. Yeah, there was one counter-attack. And, you know, defensively strong, I mean, the house and red card comes about because there's a ball over the top, which catches them out completely.

9:50And Gianni Simeone is in on goal. They're not doing either of those things either.

9:54Alex Kirkland:No, exactly that. And so the other thing is, let's put this into some context, shall we, as well. Because if this is a one-off game, fine. But Real Madrid have just come from needing a late Carlos Espíritu goal to win at Elche. They needed a late Carlos Espíritu goal to win at Espanyol on the opening day of the season. They were beaten away at Betis. Now, for what it's worth, funny enough, if we're going to do the analytical thing, I thought they were quite good at Betis. I thought they were a little bit unfortunate to lose that. But I think that the issue, I suppose, in a way, is that in a broader analysis of the game, there is not very much that Real Madrid can say.

10:32Alex Kirkland:That said, I do think it's fair to say that Mourinho, who comes into the press conference with a photograph, printed out of two moments in which there should have been red card when he says look it ended up being 10 against 11 it should have been 11 against 9 and that's and he does have a point it feels like very little has changed for Real Madrid you know you look to this team very little had changed it was the same midfield you know still too many and foul verdicts the same front four yes they had three changes at the back but this I mean yes it's still in the season but it feels like it feels like a very similar Real Madrid to the one that we saw last year and the one we saw before that, a Real Madrid, which hasn't worked.

11:10Alex Kirkland:Yeah, well, we were talking just a minute ago about the context, and I was giving you the context of their other away performances this season, where you'd say this isn't a one-off. But as you just said, the context of this is broader. It's the last two seasons. It's who plays and makes others play, who gives them a degree of fluidity, where's the balance in the team. I mean, look, we've said this lots of times this season, and I still think it's broadly true. One of the ways of addressing the, if you like, the lack of a central midfielder who plays and makes others play is to maybe bypass that.

11:44Alex Kirkland:Say, right, we'll be physically quick and we'll bypass that. And that is a legitimate approach with the squad you've got. And it's an approach with the quality of the players you've got at the top of the pitch that possibly can work. But if we reduce this to, if at the start of the season you say, there are two things that Real Madrid need to fix. One is who's the number five or who's at the half, of this midfield to make you play? And the other is, what's the attitude and the application of the team? Those are the two things. There's not much evidence yet that either of those two things have been really fixed.

12:16Yeah, and they are already six points behind Barcelona having, as you say, got out of trouble twice with late winners in two games. It doesn't bode particularly well. Let's talk about Atleti. Let's praise Atleti getting this huge win in the derby. The MVP was Giuliano Simeone, who of course won the penalty and provided the assist for Jonathan David. Do you want to talk about him? Do you want to talk about Jonathan David and another goal for him? Who do you think we should focus on?

12:43Alex Kirkland:I'd like to talk about Giuliano, but I'd like to talk about Giuliano and his partners. Because I think one of the things that was really, really apparent very quickly was that Atletico Madrid loaded everything onto the right wing. So you had Giuliano and Marco Solente. Now, when the team sheet came out, I thought they're playing three central defenders and Marco Surente is the wing back. Actually, Marco Surente was tucked inside a little bit more. And what you had was you had Kangin Lee going over to that side. You had this little triangle, Giuliano, Kangin Lee, Marco Surente. And that was designed to isolate Cucureia, partly on the grounds that, well, Vinicius is the guy on the left hand side nominally of Real Madrid's midfield.

13:27Alex Kirkland:And yet he won't really come back in and track in. So we're going to be able to isolate the fullback. Now, I'm going to say something in Vinicius' defence here, because I think the immediate reaction to what I've just said would be to say, well, there you go. It's because Vinicius isn't working back. Except the structure, in a way, doesn't invite him to. Because actually, the way that Real Madrid plays, Vinicius normally starts on the left. But in a way, when they fold back in, in theory, he goes and sort of plays at the top with Mbappé, or is left at the top with Mbappé, and it's for other players to drop in.

13:57Alex Kirkland:But there is that little bit of a hole there. And that 4-2-3-1 that Real Madrid have does sort of induce that a little bit. Because the three behind the one really do play at the top of the pitch. Except, of course, Rada Gula, who then sort of drops in and helps them play. But on that side of the pitch, that was a very deliberately targeted area of the pitch. And so I think I do want to talk about Giuliano because I think he's really, really important for them. The intensity with which he plays, that kind of mad sort of way that he runs with his head back. and it looks like the veins on his neck are about to burst and there'll be blood splurting everywhere at some point and that his lungs will come flying up his throat and out of his mouth.

14:36Alex Kirkland:And, you know, he does that. And in a sort of mad way, he's quite fun to watch. He's a little bit limited in some of the things he does, but he really, really is important for them. But I thought it was the way that those three combined. And that leads us to the other player that I thought was actually probably Atletico's best player, and that was Kang In-Li. And at this point, I hold my hands up and say, when they signed him I wasn't entirely sure that this was a signing that that A was let's put it in the most simple terms right and this is a bit unfair but I'm going to put it most simple terms I wasn't sure that A it was that good a signing bottom line I didn't think I wasn't sure and B and perhaps more nuanced I wasn't sure where it fitted in an Atletico Madrid side coached by Simeone I wasn't quite sure that and he's been a lot of kind of floaty creative players struggle in a...

15:24Exactly. Yeah, he's been great. I mean, I've been playing this up partly to tease Kittrow because I think Kittrow picked him out as potentially the, you know, sort of the signing most likely to flop or something like that. But I think that's legitimate.

15:36Alex Kirkland:Genuinely, he's been one of the best players in the league. He has been. And I think Kittrow picking up on that is legitimate because it did feel like a signing that we weren't really sure. And not least because they already had Alex Baena. And funny enough, they found a way to get both of them playing. Sort of broadly similar players and they're not quite the same thing but sort of broadly similar players and they have found a way to get both of them playing very well um there's one other player i want to pick up on before we get to jonathan david well let's just briefly say jonathan david three goals in the last three games really important and basically brought in because they weren't quite sure what's happening at the top of the pitch they weren't quite sure if they were going to find a way for julian alvarez to leave just not to barcelona and and then you've also got saw Solof injured.

16:19Alex Kirkland:And so they've had a period where they've got no number nines. Very soon they're going to have a period where they've got three number nines. And they actually need to make a decision about what they do about that with Solof and Julian Alvarez and Jonathan David. But he's been very, very good. I thought his movement was good. I thought he was good in terms of kind of finding the spaces between either side of the two central defenders at Real Madrid. And I thought he was very good. But the other player I want to talk about, just because as much as anything else, he said, maybe this is me being a smart arse out.

16:46Alex Kirkland:and you love it when something happens that says, see that thing I told you before? Koke's still their best footballer, isn't he? And I keep saying this. Koke's still their best footballer. No Barrios. And obviously no Barrios. And Barrios is constantly injured. Koke's still their best footballer, in my opinion. Yeah, it's quite something coming on in a game like this, this stage of his career and performing like that. You mentioned Julian. I don't want to dwell on it, but he came on. He got very loudly whistled, even at 2-0. You're 2-0 up in the derby. There was still time to really whistle Julian.

17:23But then there was a little bit of applause when he did one or two things. And, you know, I just I don't know. What's your take on where we are with him?

17:32Alex Kirkland:My take on where we are is that we are where we are, which is to say that we are where Julian is at Atletico Madrid. He's going to play for Atletico Madrid. And for the time being, at least, his objectives are Atletico Madrid's objectives. and so there will be an accommodation it won't be one people are happy with it won't be one that ends um you know in in flowers and kisses but he still hasn't had a moment that that he needs to kind of start to i mean he had a chance here there was it was his shot that was blocked wasn't it on the line by and also he he also had yes it was the one that's blocked on the line is his um and he also has one that goes just wide low by by courtois left hand post i think and actually He didn't strike that very well.

18:14Alex Kirkland:His movement was really nice. He then didn't strike it very well. But all in all, I thought Atletico were good. As I say, all of this is conditioned by what Mourinho did. Well, not by what he did afterwards, but Mourinho, what he did afterwards, does explain some of the conditioning of the game. That he comes into the press conference, he says 2 fouls on two of our players. There should have been two red guards. And then we're down to 10 men. We don't know how the second half would have played out. We do know how it did play out. And 11 against 10, Atletico Madrid dominated. One of the things that I was struck by, and again, let's stress this, Atletico are a good side.

18:47Alex Kirkland:They're actually quite good with the ball. And Madrid were down to 10 men, and it's difficult. But I thought Madrid's reaction was non-existent. I'm going to give you a stupid example of how non-existent it was. I was sitting behind the goal that Real Madrid were attacking in the second half. I didn't see him. Didn't see him. Like, all half until the moment that suddenly Diamande is in. and that's been only only diamante really did anything and even that is a long ball that's messed up by the centre-back it's not come from anything even the goal that round did score hasn't really come from anything it's a sort of a non-existent well not non-existent but like a sort of semi-relevant foul out on the wing swung in header goal and suddenly you've got six minutes well hang on is the old is the you know are the old ghosts back but realm did didn't get near us anyway the stupid example i was gonna give you was at one point in the second half and there was a pigeon in the Atletico Madrid half of the pitch.

19:41Alex Kirkland:And it was tapping or, you know, picking away at the grass. That pigeon was there for a long time. It did not have to move. No one was bothering it until at some point entirely off the ball, Marco Charente decided to try and, you know, kind of usher it off the pitch. Because he has this deep connection with the planet. He is at one with the world. Yeah, he picked it up and said like a dove. Yeah, he didn't actually pick it up, but he was. But to be fair, nor did he do what a child would do in Trafalgar Square and run after the little bastard and make it fly off. That's what my kids do, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

20:18Sid, who is this episode of TSFP brought to our listeners by? Well, I'm glad you asked me that, Al, because this episode of TSFP is brought to you by our friends at NordVPN. It's a new season, but one thing hasn't changed, of course. We do a lot of travelling covering Spanish football.

20:34Alex Kirkland:Yeah, we do. It feels like we've only just got back from the World Cup. We're now in another international break. And the last week has been a little bit crazy, Al. I've been in Elche, in Donosti, in Barcelona and in Madrid. And when you travel, you know, Sid, the best way to make sure you've got access to all your content from back home is using NordVPN. Yeah, it's football and TV shows. Why am I saying TV shows and movies? It's football, let's face it. Whatever it is you're watching anyway, NordVPN allows you to access your subscriptions back home wherever you are. it's really easy to use which is important if you're not particularly tech savvy like some of us Sid I feel seen but it does improve your internet security which is important if you spend a lot of time using public wi-fi at places like train stations airports hotel lobbies cafes yeah the kind of places you spend an awful lot of your time you connect with just one click it's one of the fastest vpns around and you can use up to 10 devices with one account for more information this is the important bit you need to head to nordvpn.com forward slash tsfp and there's a 30-day money-back guarantee you also get four extra months for free so if you could give us the link again now that would be great yeah you can find it in the show notes it's nordvpn.com forward slash TSFP.