Mr F**king Moustache

0:07Hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition of the Spanish Rural Podcast. I'm Phil Kitromilides. I'm joined as ever by Sid Lowe who has just had a sip of Ribena like he was a child in the UK in the 1980s. You're right Sid?

0:19Phil Kitromilides:I was a child in the UK in the 1980s. Sadly those days are long long gone. And I got this Ribena last time I was down on the East Coast. I found a British shop and I was very excited to be able to buy Ribena and Bramston's Pickle. You can take the lad out of North London, but he's been here 25 years. He still wants Bramston Pickle. For our transatlantic listeners and viewers, Google what Bramston Pickle is. Yeah, it's impossible to explain, isn't it? Yes. Anyway, it's a busy, busy week. Obviously, Champions League and European games involving Spanish sides, as well as La Liga. So loads for us to talk about.

0:57This is what happened on Match Day 31 in La Liga EA Sports this weekend. It was the retro weekend in La Liga and lots of people seem to enjoy that.

1:06Phil Kitromilides:That was the Ribena. There you go. There's my excuse. I've gone for the Ribena because it's a retro weekend. Beautifully tied in. Friday night, we saw Real Madrid draw 1-1 with Girona. Second time this season, they've drawn 1-1 with the Catalans. a similar performance to other games that we've seen from Real Madrid this season. More on that in just a moment. Real Sociedad and Alaves played out a thrilling 3-3 draw at the Real Arena. Alaves getting an equaliser deep into stoppage time after they'd twice been ahead in the game. Really entertaining. And if you want entertainment, watch Alaves. I'm not going to go as far as to say hashtag always watch Alaves, but maybe sometimes watch Alaves.

1:46Phil Kitromilides:Maybe just watch them from the 90th minute onwards. it's true it's true because um yes there have been lots of dramatic goals later on in their matches recently el che beat valencia 1-0 in a regional derby which was absolutely massive for them and had big ramifications at the bottom of the table it moved them out of the relegation zone and moved sevilla into the relegation zone sevilla subsequently moved out of the relegation zone beating atletico madrid's i was going to say b team might even be their c team or d or under the 19s. They fielded a much weakened and much changed side for their trip to the Ramon Sánchez Piquan, and they were beaten 2-1 by Sevilla, who duly moved out of the bottom three.

2:27Before that, Barcelona won the Catalan derby 4-1 against Espanyol. They were made to work hard, though, in the second half by Los Pericos. Then on Sunday, Osasuna won, Betis won. Mallorca beat Rayo 3-0. Oviedo beat Celta Vigo 3-0, Sid. I mean, I was going to say what the bloody hell happened there. I was commentating the game and you weren't actually watching it properly. So I was trying to.

2:50Phil Kitromilides:I was in the little side room about five metres from where you were commentating. Unfortunately, it didn't have your commentary on it. It was silent. So I had the radio on and the television on, which wasn't the most ideal way to watch it. Well, I got very excited when Fede Vinha scored his goals, particularly the second one. What a striker he is. The Uruguayan, nine goals for him. And Oviedo with a slender slither of hope, six points from safety. The Sunday night game, which Sydney was co-commentating, saw Villarreal beat Athletic Club 2-1. Monday night football. Ooh, this is... What's above platinum level?

3:21Phil Kitromilides:What is above platinum level? Is it just like double platinum, the way it is with albums that sell very well? It's double or treble platinum. Platinum plus. Platinum plus level game tonight. Levante Getafe. If you're watching that, we love you. We like you. We want to be friends with you. We're doing a live show in London next Friday. Friday the 24th. You're joking. Oh, God. Literally, I think, four or five tickets left. Not many at all. It's a very small venue. We were told the capacity was 80, and we've sold around 75. So there's a few left. We'll be upstairs at the Fox on the Green pub on Upper Street, Islington, from 6.30 p.m.

4:02next Friday the 24th of April. Tickets are£19.50. That includes a drink. You can find the link in the episode description. Come and see us. and also come and join us at patreon.com forward slash tsp there's loads of bonus content there we do a q a pod every tuesday a bonus pod every thursday you get the monday and friday pods without any adverts there's also the tsp newsletter which is already out today for patrons reflecting on the weekend's action and over the summer that's the only place we're going to be podding so it's four euro 75 a month it's cheaper if you get an annual membership and you know i say it every week but it's pretty good value guys there's lots of content there if you like Spanish football.

4:40So we're wondering, Sid, where do we start this week? Do we start chronologically with the Friday night game? I mean, I don't think we're going to dwell too much on Real Madrid 1, Girona 1, because it is actually quite challenging to find new ways to say Real Madrid aren't very good. But what did you make of this game? Obviously, you were there.

5:00Phil Kitromilides:Well, what I made of it, shall we start with the end and just briefly say this before we move on, which is to say that at the very end, Real Madrid had a very big penalty shout, which has caused a lot of noise because Mbappé gets an elbow in the face and there's blood across the top of his head and on his hands when he lifts his head up. There's blood in his hands and really and truly that should be a penalty. There's no two ways about it. I must admit, my first glance, I didn't think so. Even the second glance, even the replay, I didn't think so. And then there's a third replay where I absolutely did, because I think Victor Reis doesn't just have his arm up and Mbappé goes into it.

5:37Phil Kitromilides:I think he moves his arm towards Mbappé, which is extraordinarily stupid, by the way, as well as being a foul. The reason why I didn't think it was the first time is because the first time I thought it was Mbappé running into him as he was running beyond him and just running towards where his arm is. But I think it's not. I think it's an arm drawn back into Mbappé's face. and the fact that blood is everywhere certainly undoes any argument that says it wasn't particularly hard because he managed to split his head open. It should have been a penalty and Real Madrid would very likely have won the game.

6:07Phil Kitromilides:But I think there's something much deeper and I think this is why I wanted to kind of put that at the start and then say, you know, that's maybe the context of this particular result. But I think a broader question is what this game was. And what this game was really was the kind of game we've seen a lot of. Even at half-time, at which point Real Madrid had two or three pretty good chances. I would say one really good chance and a couple of pretty good chances. Even at that point, I felt like Girona were the kind of team that Real Madrid have had difficulties with. And those, generally speaking, are teams that, on the face of it, you say, yes, they win this.

6:42Phil Kitromilides:But teams that are prepared to wait quite deep. And it was interesting listening to Michel Postgame, who said that, you know, we didn't want to play like that. But this is Real Madrid and we felt we had to. And there was a bit of me that kind of thought, there's a lesson there for some managers who this year haven't realised that. And it's quite baffling that they haven't, including possibly even, and, you know, I've said this before, it doesn't feel fair for me to wade in on managers who are clearly geniuses. But even a manager who belongs to the same ownership group as Mitchell and happens to be in charge of Manchester City.

7:11Phil Kitromilides:But anyway, that's another issue. So I felt even at half time, at which point I thought Real Madrid probably should have led, but maybe not. and Girona had a couple of decent chances themselves, maybe not really clear ones, but again, a couple of decent chances. I felt this is exactly the kind of team that causes Real Madrid problems, a team that's prepared to wait for them, but also a team that's quite good with the ball. So it doesn't just wait for them with the bus, waits for them with the ball. And then as Real Madrid come to them, are quite good at picking their way through them. And I thought there were a handful of times, even in that first half, where Girona went right through the middle of the pitch and really quite comfortably.

7:45Phil Kitromilides:And then when Real Madrid scored, to be honest with you, I thought, okay, that probably ends it. And it was a terrible goal, by the way. It's a semi-decent shot. And it's one of the most bizarre bits of goalkeeping I've seen this year. From a bizarre goalkeeper, to be fair. I think he is. I think he is. He makes really strange mistakes. At the same time as making some very good saves. But he makes really strange mistakes. Admittedly, more often than not, those mistakes are made with the ball at his feet. Not with him trying to make saves. And this, he tried to save the ball with the wrong part of his arm, basically, and just completely got it wrong.

8:21Phil Kitromilides:Anyway, so Real Madrid go one and up. And at that point, I think, all right, it's done. But they didn't kill the game. They didn't create anything. Drona carve open one opportunity. It's not a brilliant opportunity, but a shooting opportunity in the edge of the area. Le Mans scores a really good goal, takes it brilliantly. And then Madrid didn't really make anything happen. They didn't really find a way back in. And we've seen this before. We saw it a little bit last week. We saw it against Osasuna. We saw it. It's a bit different against Getafe, but some elements of similarity with Getafe. And really and truly, Madrid didn't make things score.

8:53Phil Kitromilides:They had a couple of moments where they got the ball into the box. A couple of moments, I think, to be honest, where it was a little bit desperate. There's one moment when I think Mbappe dies, although I am prepared to admit that having seen the replay, I thought, oof, he might have got it. Not the one we talked about at the start, but another one. And then they should have had the penalty at the end. But the truth is that this was a poor performance. And I think Real Madrid's fans know that. And I think there's actually been a bit of pushback from Real Madrid fans because afterwards Alvaro Arbaloa comes out and starts going on about the penalty.

9:23And obviously, you know, it is a pretty clear penalty. But he's sort of, you know, giving it as kind of the reason why Real Madrid lost. And I think a lot of Real Madrid fans and even Real Madrid journalists who are fans as well, sort of pushing back on this idea that the penalty wasn't was the reason why Real Madrid lost this game, which it was. Well, sorry, drew this game, which was not the reason.

9:47Phil Kitromilides:No, no, it's not. And I think in the stadium, that was very clear. Now, obviously, it was partly clear because some of the protests in the stadium and some of the reactions in the stadium, the whistles, the getting on the players' backs happened before that potential penalty. So then you get the anger pre the penalty. Then you get the penalty that's not given. And of course, you get the anger aimed at the referee. But I think the fundamental feeling throughout that stadium was, this is happening again. This team isn't very good. They haven't been very good all year. It's a bit simplistic. But there is also that feeling that fans have of, this team doesn't really seem to be trying very hard, which is bizarre.

10:19Phil Kitromilides:Now, one example of this on Friday night. They started well this game, Sid. For the first 10, 15 minutes, I think they started pretty well. I don't think it was very long. And I think they started well in the context of what we've said a lot of times this year where we thought they were half decent. They started well in the context of a season where they haven't played well. So very little we grab hold of. But one of the things that was interesting for me, I don't want this to sound dismissive, and I think there's a chance that it does. But anyway, let me do it. It was at one point the Real Madrid fans started chanting, Now, for those of our listeners that don't know, this is, you know, put your bollocks into it, you know, make an effort.

10:56Phil Kitromilides:basically run around a bit. Yeah. And I must admit, I thought, wow, is that all you've got? And I don't mean the fans, although it feels a little bit like that. But I think it's a pretty sorry state of affairs where a club as big as Real Madrid, the response is, would you like to try? I mean, yeah, you kind of hear that chant all over Spain. You do, you do. But I did think it was, I did think it was, you know, I thought it was quite eloquent in a way. And it's possible that I'm reaching a bit. I thought it was quite eloquent because I thought it kind of said, wow, it's that basic. Sid, far be it from me to be someone who picks statistics off the internet, not verify them and go with them as an idea.

11:39But broadly speaking, what I'm going to do here, some stats that I saw on Twitter from I think it's an individual account. So and I haven't verified these myself, but I'm just going to use them as a starting point for a suggestion. Now, this person has put, with Mbappé and Vinicius both starting together for Real Madrid this season, there have been 23 games where they've started together. They have a 61 % win percentage. When only one of them plays, 24 games where only one of them has played, they have a 75 % win percentage. They've won four more matches. Now, this doesn't take into account the opponents or anything like that.

12:19It is a little bit simplistic. And again, I'll state this again. I haven't verified these stats, so they might be completely wrong,

12:25Phil Kitromilides:although it feels about right. They feel plausible, definitely, yeah. I mean, this is an idea which has been kind of there underlying this season and perhaps last season as well about these two players playing together. I don't know if you've seen this, a clip from CBS, which is going viral in Spain. It's actually from a few weeks ago. it's Thierry Henry analysing Real Madrid and analysing Kylian Mbappe's movement into the left-hand side and occupying space where he really doesn't need to be occupying if he's playing as a centre-forward, basically getting into people's way. And people have picked up on this.

13:01I think it was against Osasuna. It was a while ago anyway. But people have picked up on this. And this idea is beginning to grow that there is a problem with these two players playing together. The team doesn't play as well with these two players playing together, which, if you say it, sounds ridiculous, feels ridiculous. But we've seen it with our own eyes, Sid, many, many times. These two players don't elevate the team to the level which they should.

13:27Phil Kitromilides:And we've seen it all season and we've been saying it all season. In fact, we were saying it even before this season. We were saying it for quite a lot of last season as well. I think that there was a period, I'm trying to think when we'll be talking about. I guess really Xavi Alonso seemed to have found a way of getting Mbappé to be a centre forward. And we sort of had started to trust that they could play. Because we've talked lots of times about exactly what that Thierry Henry clip is, which is the occupation of similar spaces. You know, the getting in each other's way rather than the opening space and opportunity for each other.

14:00Phil Kitromilides:I think one of the things that's happened this year is that the discourse around this has tended to be about effort. And it's tended to be about, well, you can't have two players that don't chase back. And I actually have quite a lot of sympathy for that view, because I think broadly speaking, there's an element of truth in that. But I think that it's a bit oversimplistic because I think it doesn't take into account occupation of space. I think it's not just about, you know, would these two guys, let's go back to the chant. It's not just actually with us. It's not just about would you two run around a bit, please.

14:27Phil Kitromilides:Although that wouldn't be a bad starting point. I think it is about occupation of space. I think it is about natural inclinations. And, you know, players don't necessarily deliberately go and get in each other's way. There's a natural inclination, a natural drift of where they go to, the kind of places where they feel comfortable. I would argue that although they do it in different ways, the ideal move for both of these players starts in the same place, which is to go to the left-hand side to find the space to receive the ball and then turn and go to people. Now, what Vinicius tends to do is go outside and then cut sharply inside.

15:02Phil Kitromilides:Embapé tends to sort of bend across inside. but they broadly speaking starting and trying to finish in similar places although Mbappe is much more likely to come inside top of the Pelnot-Yera Vinicius is much more likely to try and get to the byline and come back to people but they do similar things and occupy similar spaces and it's a problem the other question in this and we've talked about this before is let's take it on a player shall we let's add Bellingham to this as well okay because this is another player who I think Bellingham in theory can drive through the middle can be a number 10 but if you're a number pretend you're in some of Embape's space.

15:33Phil Kitromilides:The other thing is that Bellingham tends to drift leftwards, even from that midfield position. So they're in the space of the other two, both of them. Not exactly, but occupying things. The occupation of space on the pitch is not as rational or not as spread out or not as well distributed as it should be. And I think it's absolutely true. I do think they are, mental though it sounds, they are at times a worse team with both of them in it. Very quickly, because we have well done this game quite early. No, no, it's all right. We don't need to apologise. We can do what we like. It's our podcast. There is that.

16:08Alvaro Arbeloa, in his selection for this game, was pretty clearly, and his subsequent substitutes as well, thinking about the game against Bayern Munich. Because you have Chamini, who is suspended for that game against Bayern Munich. He cannot play. And he has been Real Madrid's best player this season. I think so. By some distance.

16:30Phil Kitromilides:I agree with you, yeah. most consistent player. He doesn't play in this game. Instead, he puts in Eduardo Camavinga because he wants to try and get him in good shape for that Bayern Munich game, try and get him to practice playing with Bellingham and Fedde Valverde. I'm not entirely sure. It didn't really work at all. He then brings on Ferlan Mendy with 12 minutes to go. Ferlan Mendy is not an attacking fullback. You need a goal in this game. He brings on Ferlan Mendy to give him some minutes ahead of that Bayern Munich game, not to try and win the game against Girona. He gives Trent, Rudiger and Carreras the night off.

17:08They're not even on the bench for this game. It just felt like a sort of another miscalculation from Álvaro Árvalo, from my perspective. And I get it. I get it. You know, the Champions League is huge. But you can't just sort of give up on the league like this.

17:25Phil Kitromilides:No. Look, I mean, I get it as well. Because the Champions League is huge because you think that the players you've got are good enough to be able to do this and still win this game. And probably they should have been. And they would argue that had they been given that penalty at the end, they would have been. Although who knows if they'd have scored it. I mean, the likelihood is they would have scored it, but who knows for sure. I do understand it, but it is true. It suggests, manager, that I think two things. One prioritises the Champions League. And I think two maybe has actually said the league has already gone, which, by the way, now I think it has.

17:56Phil Kitromilides:It probably has. It has. They're nine points behind. Nine points behind with 21. Is it 21 left in play? I think 21 left in play. And, you know, so really and truly, it's just not going to happen for them now. I think as well, the other thing is, of course, that the experiment, as you've mentioned, and this is maybe the more even more important part of it, the experiment wasn't necessarily that useful either. So in terms of Mendy, I'm not sure how useful 12 minutes is, but I guess you give him what you can. I don't know. But there's a bit of me that thinks if you're going to try Mendy, give him half an hour.

18:26Phil Kitromilides:See him properly. See if he's physically okay properly. That's one thing. The other thing is a Cermany thing. And Arbeloa had said pre-game that he was not thinking about the Champions League. And then his starting line-up told us he was thinking about the Champions League. Because you're right. Cermany starts 100 % for sure if you're only thinking about the league. But he wanted to see Kamavinga there. And he admitted post-game. He said, I wanted to see Kamavinga at number six. And I wanted to see him at number six. And then he essentially admitted that the things that Camavinga doesn't have there were shown again.

18:56Phil Kitromilides:The positional ability, the ability to kind of stay in place and not be dragged into other parts of the game, not be carrying the ball into places where you don't necessarily need to be. And I think actually it was such an inconclusive experiment. We're sitting here now thinking, we don't know what the midfield will be. I thought there was a chance of it being Valverde. and once Valverde played on the right in this game, I thought, right, well, it won't be. But I now think it might be again because maybe you put Brahim there and you bring him around Valverde into the middle. But you certainly haven't given them the time to test it out.

19:31Let's move on. Yes, sorry. We should mention Girona. That's all right. We should mention Girona as well, who got another good result against Real Madrid. Obviously, Drew with them again in Montelevi. Their season, they won two of their first 15 games, but they've won seven of their next 15. They've got a draw here against Real Madrid and they've turned things around with some pretty good players, Sid.

19:56Phil Kitromilides:Yes. And they used, as I say, this is why I thought there was a chance that they would get something from Madrid because they used the ball nicely. And although they played deeper than they would like, they were very good, I thought, when they picked their way out from deeper positions. And you're right, the turnaround suggests that, well, we already thought they weren't in trouble. In fact, funnily enough, it's tightening up a bit because the teams at the bottom are winning and maybe some of those teams who thought they were safe, like Girona, like even Valencia a couple of weeks ago, like Athletic Club, all now think, well, there's half a chance.