Patrons' Questions 10/03/26

10:36Sid Lowe:Yes. So there we go. Some neighbours. We haven't really done an 11. There's not much structure to it. We haven't got a goalkeeper yet, have we?

10:45Phil Kitromilides:I don't think we've got a goalkeeper. Who's the oldest goalie still around who's quite good?

10:52Sid Lowe:They're all quite good. I mean, goalkeepers get on a bit, don't they? so in theory they do

10:57Phil Kitromilides:but I can't think of an old goalkeeper who's really good

11:00Sid Lowe:in La Liga yeah Ter Stegen and Oblak are both 33

11:06Phil Kitromilides:yeah that's not really old is it especially not for keepers

11:09Sid Lowe:no

11:10Phil Kitromilides:oof there's got to be some there has to be but I can't I can't think of one how old's Adrian substitute goalkeeper at Betis he feels like he's been around for a while yeah he's not getting in

11:20Sid Lowe:he's not he's not good enough sorry we've got to have some kind of standards Adrian he's got to have some kind of standards Michael Dmitrovic is 34, nearly 35.

11:29Phil Kitromilides:Penalty scoring goalkeeper and hard as nails. Yeah, I could have him in there.

11:35Sid Lowe:Jordi says, Ola Spa from Newcastle, Australia.

11:39Phil Kitromilides:Oh, so it's a long way to tonight's game. I thought, you know, you can pop into the match, but maybe not.

11:44Sid Lowe:On the interview Xavi did regarding Messi, whose relationship is more damaged, Xavi, Messi or Laporta? and if this was possible before, is this interview any indication that a Messi return is or is not ruled out?

12:01Phil Kitromilides:Right, okay. So I suppose the question is, when you say whose relationship is more damaged, whose relationship with who? Yeah. Because the club at the moment, I suppose, is the president. I mean, bear in mind that one man is in and the other two men are not in. What it does do is it makes any chance of a return for the two men who are currently not in harder, unless, of course, there was a change at the top. and I don't think it's going to be. I think Laporta's going to win. We discussed this a little bit on yesterday's pod. I think that the aim of this clearly was to try and tilt the balance away from Laporta in the presidential elections, but I think it actually damages Xavi more than it damages Laporta, partly because Laporta has a lot of popular support, but also I think because the nature of doing this, even those people who think that Xavi's right probably look at this and think, ah, but the timing was done for a reason that feels a little bit like electioneering rather than finally getting something off your chest, which has clearly been there and bothering you for a while.

12:58Phil Kitromilides:I don't think anything can really damage Messi, if you certainly mean. Maybe damage it in terms of whether or not he returns, because under Laporta, that seems increasingly unlikely. And obviously the suggestion that Laporta didn't want him to come back because of the threat that it would pose to his power, I think would still apply to a non-playing Messi. you know imagine Messi came back as a I know some sort of ambassadorial role or as a sporting director say or something like that then then if Laporta was worried about Messi's power as a player surely he would be worried about it as that if that part of what Xavi is saying is true um I think it's actually an interview that probably hasn't helped anyone if it you know and I suppose what it's it may have slightly helped Laporta even in that it may have made some people who would have saying, you know, you've really got to have, you should have treated Xabi better.

13:50Phil Kitromilides:I think those people, there's a lot of them will be thinking, ah, I now see why maybe you didn't.

13:55Sid Lowe:Yeah, that was the vibe that I got from some people.

13:59Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, and I think a lot of, I mean, I do think a lot of those Barcelona fans who are pro La Porta are very pro La Porta. So the second you turn against La Porta, there's almost this kind of pack mentality. I think that's true. You're dead to me. A little bit. And I think that's true. But obviously in the end, Messi is, you know, Messi is God. So it sort of doesn't matter.

14:19Sid Lowe:Similar question, follow up question really from Vic, who's in Sydney, also Australia. He says, can you explain to us, those of us who might have a little idea, who is Alejandro Echevarria?

14:31Phil Kitromilides:Alejandro Echevarria is, it's actually a very good question. Yes. Because the obvious answer would be to tell you what his post is at Barcelona. Well, that would be difficult. Exactly. The reason why I can't do that is because, formerly, his actual role, there isn't one. But he's the guy that kind of manages a lot of what Barcelona do. He's an advisor to Joan Laporta. He's Joan Laporta's father-in-law. He is also... Brother-in-law, I think. Ex-brother-in-law. Sorry, brother-in-law. He is also a member of the Fundación Nacional Francisco Franco, which is a pretty bad look. And he is the, I suppose, here you go.

15:16Phil Kitromilides:Should we use the old Cardinal Richelot cliche? He's the Eminence Greece. He's the what? Eminence Greece, the grey presence in the background.

15:26Sid Lowe:I see. Yes. Yes. No, no, that's actually quite a good description. He's very close to players as well. And yeah, generally he's pulling the strings behind the scenes at Barca. Tyler says, Ola Spa, imagine it's summer 2024 and you're making decisions at Real Sociedad. You have three incredible players, but long term, you can only afford to keep one of Mikel Moreno, Martin Thubimendi and Mikel Oyarzabal. Which do you choose?

15:55Phil Kitromilides:I suppose this question is basically asking, did they do the right thing? And I think the answer is probably yes.

16:01Sid Lowe:Yeah.

16:01Phil Kitromilides:Also, we should put this into context though, which is I don't think that you necessarily get to choose. Now, obviously you do up to a point

16:09Sid Lowe:No, no, but it's an imaginary question, Sid. We can choose. We are choosing. That is the context.

16:14Phil Kitromilides:Okay, well, but okay. But the answer, in which case, the answer is, did they do the right thing? I think the answer is probably yes. But obviously any decision like that is made in the context of what those players want to do as well. You know, you're suggesting you keep one of them. You're suggesting you keep one of them. Maybe you keep to replace them. Exactly. And maybe the answer to that question is, you get to keep one of them or keep the one who wants to stay. And essentially that's... Well, imagine they all want to stay. Okay, imagine they all want to stay. Well, they all want to stay. Now, that is a very interesting question because then you're talking about finding a buyer for them.

16:46Phil Kitromilides:So I suppose the answer is partly who's got the biggest buyer. Imagine they all want to stay and they all have buyers. And it's all the same price. And it's all the same price for all of them. Okay, right. I still feel like you keep Oyathaba, don't you?

17:00Sid Lowe:I think so as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think someone who scored that many goals, They have really struggled to try and find someone who can score goals. They've spent money and it hasn't worked. And he's been the only guy. I mean, remember, they spent a lot of money on Umar Sadiq. They spent a lot of money on Ori Oskarsson. Oskarsson may eventually end up working out, but he hasn't set the world alight yet until a few weeks ago when he scored in the Copa del Rey and sparked the best chant of all time. But yeah, no, I think we'll go for Mikel Ollar. Yeah. George says, May I suggest that Vedat Murici's brilliant goal-scoring record is indirectly why Real Mallorca are struggling so badly.

17:42Sid Lowe:In exchange for getting him the ball more often, this has left their typically solid defence far more open at the back. The past three seasons, Mallorca conceded 43, 44 and 44 goals. This season, they've already conceded 44 with 11 matches still to play. Time to bring back Aguirre's suffer ball. George from a warm and sunny Brookline, Massachusetts?

18:04Phil Kitromilides:Okay, so this is a really interesting question because I must admit it hasn't gone where I thought it was going to go. At the start when you said, is he part of the reason why they're struggling? I thought it was going to be because they're a bit one-dimensional and they played to him. Just look for him. I thought that was what you were going to say. But you actually turned it onto the defensive side of it. And I think that's really interesting because now not having the statistics in front of me and not having actually thought about it in this context, the intuitive answer it feels to me is to say that a player like Marucci doesn't require you to break up your defensive solidity precisely because you go to him, precisely because you are, to use the Spanish phrase, chucking a washing machine up at him and asking him to head it towards goal, that you're not necessarily having to be creative.

18:51Phil Kitromilides:And therefore, I don't think you necessarily need to break your defensive structure in order to play to him. It is true that in theory, that Arasati was coming in after Aguirre with the idea that they would play a bit more football. And that's a very loaded phrase, which I don't particularly like, but play a bit more football, that they would open up a little bit more, that they would be a bit more creative, that they would score more goals. And although you've pointed out that defensively, the numbers are not as good as they were with Aguirre, it still doesn't feel like they became suddenly a flowing team in any way.

19:20Phil Kitromilides:Now, I think Arasate does want his team to be front-footed. He does want his team to attack. But he is still about ball-wide, ball into the box. And that's a very, very simplistic way of putting it. But that's broadly his approach. And so I'm not sure that the correlation is there. And funny enough, as I say, I thought the question was going to be about creativity and wanting the ball and opening up and so on. And actually, at the weekend with Demichelis, they wanted the ball a lot more. And Marucci still scored two. So I was getting ready to give you the answer that says, well, stopping going direct doesn't mean he won't score anymore because he got to the weekend when they didn't go direct.

19:53Phil Kitromilides:And actually, the second goal is gorgeous, by the way. Very un-Marici-like.

19:58Sid Lowe:John says, we've got a few questions here on Real Madrid. John says, hello, John from Glasgow here. I wanted to discuss Real Madrid's transfer policy and why it shouldn't be a surprise that the squad isn't at the quality of a few years ago. The net spend on the squad is€300 million in the last 10 years. I understand they've done well in free transfer market and the wages are high, but is it a surprise that they can't compete at top level in the Champions League in the last few seasons without spending money? I mean, they did win it two years ago, but yeah.

20:29Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, and I do think there is, the numbers you've given out, I do think point to something that we've talked about that does sometimes get overlooked. I think there is this perception that Real Madrid can just buy whoever they want, and that's not actually true. and the policy has been one very clearly of austerity over the last seven or eight years. That figure was for the last 10, wasn't it? Now, that's not to say that they don't spend big in key moments. Germany was 80 million, Carreras was 65 million, Hausson, I think, was 60 million. Ellingham was 100 million. Ellingham was 100 and something million, yeah.

21:03Phil Kitromilides:And obviously, Mbappé was free, but the salary you're paying him is absolutely colossal. Obviously, there's been huge...

21:09Sid Lowe:I mean, even Vinicius was 50 million as an 18-year-old.

21:12Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, Vinicius was 50 million. Rodrigo was 45 million. You know, these were teenagers at the time. And we've talked about how Real Madrid's policy has shifted towards trying to get players in a bit younger, not entirely, because there's also a degree of tension internally about what you're looking for, what you're trying to sign, who you want to have. You also have to look at this in the context of the money spent on the stadium, which has cost an absolute fortune and actually hasn't been a huge success yet.

21:39Sid Lowe:no no it's been a disaster economically the stadium because they haven't been able to use it for concerts which is what they had planned for entirely it was supposed to bring in huge amounts of money because of that and they have run into massive legal issues with the neighbours who've taken them to court and been very successful so that is a huge oversight which isn't really being talked about in the media at all at all but it's but it's you know borderline

22:03Phil Kitromilides:catastrophic for real Madrid if that's not sorted out very soon it's also it's also incredible that the most basic thing of all wasn't dealt with. If you want to say concerts, you soundproof it. And it seems the most basic thing of all. And it just wasn't handled. I should point out here that you literally mean the neighbours, not Atletico Madrid. I quite like the idea, though, of Atletico Madrid taking Real Madrid to court for making too much noise. And it has been, that has been a disaster. And Madrid tried to change the narrative, which is, oh, the concerts don't really matter. It's not a big part of our income.

22:32Phil Kitromilides:But wait a minute, three months ago, you were telling us this was enormous. This was the game change. this was the next generation all the rest of it um but yeah i i think you're right that there is an a slight undermining of brownwood over that time but i also think that that financial impact while it's real shouldn't shouldn't prevent us from discussing the the cultural and structural elements of getting it wrong in terms of coaches authority uh choosing the right players and that kind of that kind of issue.

23:02Sid Lowe:Al has pointed out the question that we had a few minutes ago about what position at a club we would hold if we could. You're literally the head of Ray Loviedo's foundation Sid.

23:15Phil Kitromilides:Oh yeah I suppose I am yeah I'm doing a great job.

23:18Sid Lowe:Yes Sid is the head of the Ray Loviedo foundation and he's sort of forgotten about that but yeah there we go. Yeah how's that how's that going is that is that it's good yeah yeah yeah it's going really well uh yeah uh Tushar says Olaspar I know it's always been a tiresome discussion regarding the coaches at Madrid whether they are classified as either a man manager or a tactician and nothing in between exactly this season however I just want to say the bleeding obvious even though it might hurt some I don't think so I don't think so this group of players is that good as we I don't think this group of players is as good as we perceive them to be.

23:57Sid Lowe:Debate about the type of coach should be out the window. If they want to start winning again, they need to replace a bunch of them. I mean, this is a narrative that's been put forward by a lot of Real Madrid supporters. Now, we need a clear out.

24:10Phil Kitromilides:Yeah. Now, I think the we need a clear out thing is the normal angry response to things going back. Exactly. And I don't think it's particularly helpful. and I don't think it's accurate. I agree with the start of the premise of the question, which is that there are a handful of players in this team that are not quite as good as we think or as good as we build them up to be.

24:31Sid Lowe:Are you going to name names, Sydney?

24:34Phil Kitromilides:Well, I mean, we've talked about this all season. You tell me who in that midfield is running a game for you. Yeah, OK. You tell me who you're attacking.

24:45Sid Lowe:Is that that those players aren't good or that there's not a player to do a specific role?

24:48Phil Kitromilides:Well, that player doesn't exist at Real Madrid, but the players that we assume can play that role or the players that are trying to play that role can't, in my view. Fede Valverde is a good example of that. A brilliant athlete, but you can't ask Fede Valverde to run the game for the middle of midfield. It's just not going to happen. Ask yourself how good really are the attacking players on the right hand side of the pitch? Now, with time, Mastantoin might turn out to be brilliant. I'm honestly not sure about that. With time, I think Goula will be a really, really good player. But is that actually his natural place?

25:17Phil Kitromilides:So that's not really good. I look at the back four and I don't think there's a good player there, apart from Millie Dow. Now, obviously, they're all good players. Exactly. They're all good players. But what I mean is we're talking about the absolute elite. I look at that back four and I don't see it. I don't see it. I think if you have a player like Trent Alexander-Arnold, who I think is a brilliant footballer, I think the structure, obviously, needs to be slightly different. But, you know, so all those things are true. But then the other part of the premise of the question I don't agree with, the idea that it's not about a manager.

25:47Phil Kitromilides:Because I think with a structural manager, I think with some of the players they've got, I think you can do some of these things. And I think, you know, if you look at Real Madrid's injury list and let's wipe Real Madrid's injury list out and say, everybody is available. Here's a starting 11. I look at that and think that's a team that can win everything. Even with the flaws I'm talking about. Even with the flaws I'm talking about, you put the 11 best players from Real Madrid on the pitch and get it to work. So we're coming back to that question about the manager and the culture and the structure and the authority and all those things, I look at that team and think, yeah, that's a very good team.

26:22Sid Lowe:I mean, I look at the team on paper and then I remember what I've seen.

26:27Phil Kitromilides:So we're coming back to managerial stuff again and structures and cultures and how you make it work. And so this is what I mean by I agree with part of the premise, which is I do think that there are a handful of players in that team that are not quite as good as we think or we would like to think. But I also think that I don't agree with the second part of the premise, which is that this isn't about the manager and you just need to rip it all up and start again. I don't think you do. I think two really good signings, two good signings who are the right signing and the right manager. And I think this can be a really, really good team.

26:58Phil Kitromilides:When you want your spring break to feel like and your kid's pool day to feel like and your hotel bed to feel like ooh and room service to feel like because at hilton hospitality feels like your cabana's ready would you like fresh towels it matters where you stay book now at hilton.com hilton for this day shot clocks big shots upsets aces tgl playoffs are here first atlanta drive starts their repeat run against los angeles golf club then rory's boston common golf and tigers jupiter links face off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance? Keep up. It's playoffs. Tune in Tuesday, March 17th at 6.30 p.m.

27:45Phil Kitromilides:and 9 p.m. only on ESPN and the ESPN app. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in. With a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles, you can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip-off with a variety of non-alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com. Near beer, fit for all times.

28:19Sid Lowe:El Ref Esun Juancar says, for all the talk about Vinicius, that makes you laugh every week. No, it's so easy. I'm so charlie. For all the talk about Vinicius feeling liberated after Xavi's sacking, I'm not sure I really see a huge improvement. Even though he's been scoring a few more goals, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. Also, how are the contract renewal talks going?

28:40Phil Kitromilides:Well, I mean, right. Let's just very briefly deal with the contract renewal talks and just go back to something we said way back in the autumn, I think, September or October time, when we were talking, there's no problem they're going to talk about it at the end of the season. And what we said then, and it still stands now, is if you're leaving to the end of the season to talk, there is a problem. There is a problem. You do not allow contract negotiations to go this late into the contract, this deep into the contract. We're a player this good if you think this player is important for you. and if it's not because you're letting it happen but you can't stop it, then you've also got a problem.

29:11Phil Kitromilides:So that's the first thing. The Vinicius question, I think this is a really interesting question and I think broadly speaking, I would half agree with you in that I think what we've seen is better numbers from him. I think what we've seen is him look more comfortable. I think what we've seen is him look more enthusiastic, more willing to run at people. But I would agree that the overall impact on the team, given the injuries as well, well, because very much Nembapé has missed a lot of games. And so that's part of the context of this. The overall impact on the team, yeah, we haven't seen. I mean, Madrid is a team.

29:43Phil Kitromilides:Forget Vinicius for a minute. Even if we're looking at Vinicius and say, well, individually, Vinicius is better. Madrid as a team are not. In fact, they may even be worse. And those two things may be related. And I would agree that I think Vinicius has had his moments, but I don't think we're suddenly seeing him back to the player that we thought he was when he thought he was going to win the Ballon d 'Or. Hmm.

30:05Sid Lowe:James says, Hola, Spark. Question. When did this Real Madrid mysticism truly begin? It seems to be more pronounced as of late. By mysticism, I mean the belief that they can come out on top, despite all evidence showing that they won't. This league, for example, when they were top, it was boringly good, which in my eyes was an excuse to hide the obvious flaws.

30:25Phil Kitromilides:was well boringly good was how i i saw them because i thought for the first time in a long time we were watching around your team that weren't conceding chances that didn't look like they were going to get caught that didn't look like they needed let's let's link this to your question didn't look like they needed that mysticism so here we go they're just going to get on with it because i watched them and thought they weren't very good but they were solid they weren't getting caught i thought there's so many there's well so many there's a handful of good players in there they're going to keep winning games we're not going to watch them and think wow, aren't they great?

30:54Phil Kitromilides:But they are just winning and winning in a way that feels like under control, which is something that we've not really seen with Real Madrid. And that leads us to the other part of the question. Where did the mysticism start? Well, in terms of the construction of the idea, we're talking late 70s and into the 80s with the idea of the spirit of Juan Ido and the comebacks in the European competition, all that sort of stuff, which in truth, and I've written about this lots of times, I remember writing a piece just before they had to do a comeback against Dortmund in 2013. Yeah, around about then. That sounds right.

31:22Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And going through the stats and saying, actually, it's a myth. All the times they said they were going to come back, it didn't happen. But then they went through a phase where they did start doing it. And of course, that Champions League, when they did three of them in a row, and they were unbelievable, those three. And you can pick this apart and you can talk about, if you like, moments of luck. And there's no doubt there were moments of luck. You can talk about refereeing decisions. You can talk about cock-ups from opponents. The amount of times that goalkeepers who were previously good went to jelly against Real Madrid and just gifted them goals was nuts.

31:54Phil Kitromilides:And all of this does, and I suppose in part, and, you know, look, I include myself in this. I hold my hands up as a guilty party in this. Sometimes when you can't explain something, you sort of go, it's just, you know, it's just them in it. It's just this and this. And it keeps on happening. And, of course, you know, you're searching for an explanation for something. And, of course, the other thing that happens, and I think this is important, because you create a mysticism or because you create a story or a narrative, you also create certain conditions. And I don't think there's any doubt that if you look at some of those Champions League games and you think, for example, about Manchester City and you think about when that game goes into extra time, there's only one team that's going to win.

32:34Phil Kitromilides:And so the mysticism plays a part because it's in people's heads. But I do think there is a degree of mythology about this. And I've mentioned this to you lots of times, that game against PSG.

32:45Sid Lowe:Yeah.

32:46Phil Kitromilides:The other part of the story, which I think is a myth or a lie, is this idea that the Bernabeu raises them and carries them through. I apologise for this. And Real Madrid fans, some fans might get annoyed with me for saying this. I just don't think that's true. No, I disagree.

33:02Sid Lowe:I think it is true when they're losing. I think when Real Madrid are losing and they get a goal back, that roar, that's the moment.

33:09Phil Kitromilides:Exactly. But it requires that goal back. So what I mean by this is it's not that the Bernabeu says, we can do this, lads, and it carries Real Madrid. It's that Real Madrid have to light the spark.

33:19Sid Lowe:Real Madrid have to light the spark.

33:20Phil Kitromilides:whether it's a fluke or a brilliant goal or whatever they have to like. That game against PSG, when they came back, they were one nil down around about 65, 70 minutes. The Bernabeu was whistling. People were leaving. People were leaving. And then they get the goal. The whole place erupts. It all goes mad. The momentum changes. But the fans needed that provocation to do it. It's not that they led it. This is my point. They don't lead it. And then afterwards, you get this thing. Oh, you know, the Bernabeu carried them. Sorry, the Bernabeu was leaving.

33:51Sid Lowe:All right, Passenger8 says, Hi, Spa, from an office in bafflingly mild and sunny midtown Manhattan. Wow. Scrolling through the usual firestorms on Twitter following Madrid and Barcelona defeats this week, and curious, who is your bet for the player that will end up being Barcelona's starting centre-forward next season? Fans seem to only agree about two things. Firstly, that Bob and Ferran aren't it. And secondly, that the club can't afford anyone better.

34:18Phil Kitromilides:Yeah. And do you know what? there's a third dimension to this. I mean, maybe I'm saying this because I'm English and maybe I'm saying this because I've been thinking about this a little bit this week because of Barcelona going back to Newcastle where Rashford was so good in the first game. It's curious, isn't it? Because Rashford was brought in as the backup in theory for all three of the forward positions. And the reality has been he's only been back up in one of them on the left-hand side. And I've been surprised that there hasn't been more of an attempt to play him through the middle. And I suppose that's because they've looked at it technically and thought, actually, that's just not his role.

34:48Phil Kitromilides:and we thought it might be one of them. And I do think Barca are in a position now where they've got three people who can play centre-forward, if we're including Rashford in that, and none of them convince the manager entirely. You've got Danny Olmo who could play false nine and I'm not sure that that convinces the manager entirely either. And so I think the answer to this question is, well, who are they going to sign and who can they sign? Because I don't think any of the players they've got now are the player that they would like at centre-forward next season.

35:17Sid Lowe:So who are they going to sign?

35:22Phil Kitromilides:Well, for example, the story that keeps returning is Julien Alvarez. I don't see it. I don't see them having the financial muscle to make that happen. So I don't know. Who do they sign? Who's out there? Genuinely, who is out there that they could get, that they could get that is of the level that they want them to be?

35:45Sid Lowe:Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, they could do with Harry Kane.

35:51Phil Kitromilides:I tell you what, what a player Harry Kane is. They really could do with Harry Kane. Yeah.

35:55Sid Lowe:I mean, that would be a very good fit, but that is not going to happen. Joel says, Hello, Spal, from a pleasant 23 degrees in Atlanta, Georgia. A-Town. Nice one, Joel. He says, I'm a new patron, loving the extra stuff as a newish La Liga supporter. I've been disappointed with Bettis' play as of late, but really surprised to read that Pellegrini might be in trouble. What are your thoughts about Pellegrini's tenure? And if a club were to move on, whom do you think would be a good successor?

36:25Phil Kitromilides:I feel like I'm going around in circles here. So I apologise if I... We have had questions about... Because Pellegrini has been through a little bit of a phase where it felt like the end was coming because it just kind of felt not wrong necessarily, but just a bit sort of like, okay, where do we go from here? And then to be fair to him, I thought that he found a way that it did feel like there was progress again. So getting to a European final last year, progressing in Europe this year. And I actually think the European draw has opened up a little bit for them. And I think there's a reasonable chance that they go a long way this year.

37:02Phil Kitromilides:I think the arrival of Anthony last season gave this sense of excitement and magic and enthusiasm that kind of wasn't there. I think the quality of Isco gave them something a little bit different. And so at a time when it felt like Betis were just sort of drifting a bit and had maybe reached a glass ceiling and he thought, it's not fair to expect more. And yet at the same time, you always kind of want a bit more and it became a tiny bit stale. And I think that, I agree with the question, by the way, there's been times this year I think their play has not been quite as good as you might expect it to be.

37:32Phil Kitromilides:And I also think that there's been a bit of an evolution in Pellegrini because of the players he's got. There's been moments when they've been a bit more direct than he would usually have a team being. There's been moments, I think, well, a lot of moments actually this year with Abde on one side and Anthony on the other, where he's opened the pitch a bit wider than he would normally do because he's always quite liked his wide midfielders to come inside, to have a lot of players inside, a lot of players of good touch, technique and so on. I think we've seen things that have also made it more exciting for now as becoming a central midfielder and then being a ball-playing player there.

38:00Phil Kitromilides:But it is true that you just wonder if there's just kind of a point where you think, all right, that's long enough. and yet at the same time as the question suggests you can't ever well you can't at the moment question Pellegrini exactly because you can't what exactly that's exactly what I was about to say could you seriously expect Betis to be any higher than they are no no and they're doing well in Europe and they were knocked all right they were knocked out in a very bad way in the Copa de Re they conceded a load of goals against Atletico Madrid and so on right but fundamentally there's nothing really wrong with them and yet it is true there's that tiny bit of something not quite there but I think a European run will put that something back another European run yeah yeah

38:46Sid Lowe:um he's going to be 73 this year as well he's amazing he is actually genuinely amazing Pellegrini

38:51Phil Kitromilides:and he's incredible shape um and he's incredibly lucid he said something to me I did an interview with him once and one of the things he said which I thought was a really nice and very simplistic way of putting it he said you only get old if you don't do tomorrow what you did today

39:08Phil Kitromilides:and i thought does that mean well it means you know if there are things that you do and you stop doing them then you won't go back to them and you'll and you'll drift into you know and obviously he was talking about in the context of for example he still plays tennis he still goes to gym he still walks every day he'll listen to all of these things these things that are about your vitality. If you still do it tomorrow, if you keep doing it, you're not getting any older, effectively.

39:34Sid Lowe:Wise words from Manny. Manny P.

39:39Phil Kitromilides:I'd love to do an interview with Manny P. Could you tell me about today's game? What are your thoughts?

39:45Sid Lowe:Lorenzo says, what do you think about Wenger's proposed changes to the offside rule?

39:49Phil Kitromilides:I think it's demented. I also think it's unnecessary yeah just right I know people get upset about this but I I find it slightly bizarre I think the offside rule with VAR and I'm not a big fan of VAR right but I feel like the offside rule with VAR it's one of the few things that VAR's really good for you know all right you can have one or two doubts about whether the frame's been chosen right and all these kind of things right but fundamentally there is there's line that's the end of it now I do think there is maybe a bit of scope for saying, shall we draw the line a fraction wider? But demanding that there's actually airspace between two players, I think provides an unrealistically big advantage to the attacking player.

40:33Phil Kitromilides:I don't think we appreciate how much space airspace is.

40:37Sid Lowe:Yes. You keep sort of banging the tables. Oh, sorry. We can hear that. Yeah, he gets against. It's very annoying. Yeah. Apologies, listeners, Sydney. Max says, watch us spa. Picture the scene. It's 0-0 in the 90th minute of the World Cup final. Spain against France. A free kick, 40 yards from goal. Florian Lejeune smashes it into the top corner. I'm with you. And Spain are world champions. De La Fuente loves the French centre-back after all, so why not? I know Florian won't go to the World Cup, but should he? He's having a better season than Laporte, Lenormand, Vivian. How many Spain-qualified centre-backs are better than him right now?

41:21Sid Lowe:P.S. His wife is Spanish, so I think he could get citizenship. Well, he mentioned him before, Max. You know, we're massive fans. This guy's played every... He's the only player in La Liga to have started every game, along with Martin Valgent. He's played every minute apart from...

41:36Phil Kitromilides:Of the outfield players, you mean, right?

41:37Sid Lowe:Of the outfield players. He's played every minute apart from nine minutes at the end of the game against Osasuda on match day four. He doesn't rest. He's played every game in the Conference League. he is he's got an extraordinary sort of covering speed for a big man at 34 he can make tackles he can play passes he's got a terrific shot on him I'm not just saying this because I'm a riot fan no I is amazing he is amazing and you're right he's in much better form than all of those centre-backs but obviously he's not going to get nationalized no and there is there is there is

42:07Phil Kitromilides:underlying that question a broader issue which is that Spain have a real problem at centre-back all of the people who are very good central defenders and they do have very good central defenders not one of them has played well this season

42:18Sid Lowe:well I mean just play Paul Kubasi and Eric Garcia together

42:22Phil Kitromilides:yeah sorry so that's true not one of them isn't fair because Kubasi even Kubasi's had his moments when I've had doubts about him but he was brilliant the other night yeah

42:32Sid Lowe:Bocadillo61 says writing from the West End neighbourhood of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada brilliantly specific like that The weather here is quite regular. Fair enough. Follow up on Athletic Barca. I grew up in Russia and every time this game would happen, a Russian commentator referred to this game as a Classico, saying that not only Real Madrid and Barca is a Classico, but also games involving Athletic because they'd never been relegated. I only heard that theory from Russian-speaking sources, never English or Spanish. Could you please confirm or deny this?

43:08Phil Kitromilides:Well, it would be considered in Spain a classic game. Not El Clasico, but a classic game. And by the way, just a brief aside here, El Clasico is a recent construction in Spain. 15 years, 15, 20 years. Yeah, around about that. It's still the derby to a lot of people. El Derby. It's still the derby to a lot of people. Anyway, but yes, it's very much a classic game. Yeah.

43:31Sid Lowe:Patrick says, Hola Spa from Philly. I just listened to Sid's diary entry, wondering how does it work for planning booking paying for your flights hotels press accommodations and everything else especially when you work for two or more news sources sid mentioned how he wasn't used as much for espn but could still have been working at the same time on a piece for the guardian um uh yeah sorry those are two slightly different i was trying to i was trying to marry

43:57Phil Kitromilides:the two things uh essentially i do it nearly all of it uh and and i i must admit i i mean you've seen what my what my notebook looks like kitro um i i feel like i spend a huge amount of mental energy trying to work out the logistics of backwards and forwards to various different places and uh and and being there and finding the right flights and that sort of thing so yeah it's

44:16Sid Lowe:me it's a scary scary place it's notebook you don't want to don't have too many no that that

44:22Phil Kitromilides:that meme that meme is it is it julia roberts of the numbers floating around her it's kind of yeah

44:27Sid Lowe:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul Scholes knock off boots. So it's Ola Spal from harrowingly humid Sydney. How often does a team come from the third or fourth division in Segunda and then into La Liga? What's the most insane example of this happening? I would love to see Jerez, the tractor racing Guadalacin, Guadalacin, or the mighty San Luqueño come up in my lifetime. I lived in Jerez for a bit, but after a few years, a few years after their dramatic splintering. Also, who could be the Santi Cthorla of this region who could swoop in and rescue a Mino club if such a player exists?

45:05Phil Kitromilides:Well, I mean, I suppose you could say that Pedro Leon is trying to do it with Murcia. Dani Guiith is still playing, albeit a couple of levels below this. In fact, he used to play for Atletico San Luqueño, who you've just mentioned. I'm trying to think of an example of a club that came all the way up. Well, bear in mind that Mallorca, this current Mallorca, had been Segunda B, Segunda and Primera. I mean, Eibar. Eibar have done it. Which is more dramatic, I would say.

45:29Sid Lowe:Yeah, absolutely. Tiny little Eibar.

45:32Phil Kitromilides:Well, Eibar, I was at the playoff game between Oviedo and Eibar from Segunda B to Segunda when Eibar beat Oviedo. This is 2012, I think. And then when they played in the first division, the first game of the season, the first division against Real Sociedad, of the starting 11, eight of them had played in that Siglo Nabi playoff against Sovjeto. So it's not like they'd even, you know, changed the players. The example of someone who came all the way up, I think this was the making of Juan Malillo when he started out as a very young coach with Salamanca, I want to say. I feel like I might have remembered that wrong, but I think it's Salamanca.

46:08Phil Kitromilides:So, yeah, it can happen. It can happen.

46:13Sid Lowe:Gravitas 3K says, quickfire question for Kitro. if you could wave a magic wand and save one team from being relegated this season, would it be Spurs or Raya? Oh, man, obviously Spurs. I mean, Raya are going to get relegated. Raya don't need it. I'm saying that in the future, in the next few years, Raya are going to get relegated and it is part of the footballing ecosystem. I've made my peace with it. I know that it's going to happen at some point. I don't want it to happen. But they are not a traditional top-flight club and they are massively overachieving. spurs going down is devastating and catastrophic and so fundamentally upsetting on so many levels that um yeah i would like my wand to save them from that please don't make that happen i'm

47:00Phil Kitromilides:disappointed that your answer wasn't neither of them i'd use my wand to rescue rail of the other

47:05Sid Lowe:i mean i don't even think my wand can rescue you guys that's it you're finished forget my word um um rohan says uh hello spell from a very hot mumbai long time listener first time question asker welcome along rohan i'm going to barcelona from the 28th to the 31st of march and would love to know if you have any suggestions on what i could visit or do there also thanks for doing tsfp listening to you guys talk about spanish football got me through some of the toughest days of my life and i couldn't be more grateful that's very nice to hear rohan thank you it's a pleasure to do this so things to do things to do in Barcelona Sid, go!

47:49Phil Kitromilides:There's loads of things to do in Barcelona I suppose if you're looking at this from a football fan's point of view, I believe there's no games because that's during the international break but get yourself along to maybe go and see some lower level football, go to Europa for example, maybe try and go to see Sabadell play, obviously go and do the museum at Barcelona I personally am a big fan of the Fundación Miro up on Montjuic, which I think is well worth seeing. And obviously, if you're up on Montjuic, you can have a look at the Olympic Stadium as well. Have a coffee in the little cafeteria where the diving pool is, which is famous for its footage of the players, of the players rather.

48:25Phil Kitromilides:The divers looking like they're falling through the city. What else, Phil? What do you like about Barcelona?

48:30Sid Lowe:So I would recommend somewhere to go and eat. Go to Terraza Martínez, which is where we often send people. It is spectacular. It's up by Monjuic as well. You've got a terrific view of the city. Very good food. You will love it. So Terraza Martinez is my suggestion. Obviously, we've got people that live in Barcelona who might be going, oh no, don't go there. It's too touristy or whatever.

48:52Phil Kitromilides:Trust me, I think you'll like it. And you're going as a tourist anyway, so I mean, you know, you don't necessarily need to worry about that. And there you go. Barcelona's amazing. Also, Barcelona's city in the centre. Just walk around looking up.

49:06Sid Lowe:walk around look up very good the architecture is very very nice yeah yeah i was uh just checking to see if al had uh sent any messages on the internal chat because he's obviously uh listening and a very much an expert on gastronomy uh sid al says the sagrada familia in it yeah all right he's got that one although although you know it's finished is it finished it's nearly finished it is it is very nearly finished do you know what i don't think they want it to be i reckon

49:35Phil Kitromilides:In the day before it's finished, they'll knock something down just so they can keep building. That's kind of part of its charm now. It's supposed to be under Obras at all times. All right.

49:43Sid Lowe:Paul says, OK, gents, I've got a pressing question from you from rainy city centre Philadelphia that I think is a bit of an English version of Rincón Cultural, a bit of a head scratcher. OK. Wow, Paul, this is insanely specific. OK, I've noticed that most English football announcers talk of players falling to the floor at least in American English floor has a connotation of being the ground inside or indoors and consequently an America announcer would be more likely to know that a player has gone to ground

50:16Phil Kitromilides:rather than floor any thoughts the thought is that I suppose when you talk about flooring it is it is like the what you put indoors yeah the flooring is your tarima flotante what do you call that in English or your carpet is well that's not your flooring because it's not hard but you know a flooring is what you put inside. So I suppose that's sort of true. But yes, we would use floor, we'd use ground, we would use turf, we would use grass. All of those things would be appropriate for a player to fall on. I'm not sure if it would fall to fall to... I wouldn't say...

50:45Sid Lowe:I don't think I would say floor. Who's on the floor?

50:48Phil Kitromilides:A player goes in there, hits the floor. I think you can say if he's taken out, he hits the floor. I think you're right. You'd probably use ground more than floor, but I do think you'd use floor.

50:56Sid Lowe:This is fantastic. This is what we need, Paul. More of this very sort of detailed, completely unnecessary analysis of minutiae to stop us thinking about all the other more important things happening in the world that's what we need uh finally mark says ola spell from

51:11Phil Kitromilides:the eighth wonder of the world that is edinburgh i thought you were gonna say cafe then unfortunately

51:17Sid Lowe:there is little spring uh unfortunately there is little spring sunshine on leaf is warning us up as yet um okay didn't really understand that i feel that sunshine on leaf is is is a very famous song yeah i know that but you said all right edipur is lovely by the way wow what a city it's a beautiful beautiful spot um terrible weather i say i feel that phil has hogged the musical debate in recent weeks and the interest of balance who does sid think has consistently been the best indie or rock band of the last few years and which spanish venues does he recommend

51:52Phil Kitromilides:for catching a live gig well i i cannot for for begin to claim to have any sort of expertise in terms of who's been the best indie rock band but the the the last gig i went to was um was was the kooks at riviera and riviera is a is a probably what 1500 venue it's kind of circular around the stage it's quite nice in a lot of a lot of bands there obviously bigger places in madrid you've got things like the palatina portas but the end is talking 10 12 000 and i've been to a couple of very small we are scientists in in a tiny little play i can't even remember what the place was called uh chango i think it was or was that where i saw lightning seeds anyway i think it was i think it was chango which was basically literally kind of a 150 people that was great fun we are scientists of the band that i'm listening to quite a lot at the moment because it sort of discovered them by chance they've been around for years so it's not like i was finger on the pulse or anything but there was a kind of a rediscovery of them because they were the support act with the choral who i went to see at ali pally in in our hood phil uh over the summer and saw we are scientists who really liked them and have sort of started going back to them now who was the band whose cd was

52:55Sid Lowe:stuck in your car. That was Arcade Fire, yeah. So you could only ever listen to that one CD.

53:01Phil Kitromilides:To be fair, it could have been worse. I've had worse CDs than that in the car. But my God, I was tired of the suburbs from Arcade Fire because it was the only CD in the car because it was literally stuck, yeah.

53:13Sid Lowe:That was the old school Podmobile. That was the Skoda, yeah. R.I.P., the original Podmobile. Al says, La Coquette is a very famous blues rock bar in Madrid near Puerta del Sol.

53:25Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, I think I've been there. I think I've been there. Yeah, there you go. There's a handful of little places. Claymore's, well, I think it's actually Clamoris, but I was looking at it and saying Claymore's, is a kind of a jazz place in Madrid. Obviously, I'm not into jazz, but I've seen a couple of concerts there. I saw an Australian guitarist called Steph Strings there, Clamoris, Claymore's, I like to call it Claymore's.

53:50Sid Lowe:Cool, okay. Sounds very much not up my street. let's leave it there guys thanks for all the questions we'll be back on Thursday bonus podcast talking about the Champions League loads of big games for us to reflect on so make sure you're signed up at patreon.com forward slash TSFP remember we do this Q &A podcast every single Tuesday you want to ask us a question become a patron from just 4.75 euros a month just over a euro a week to get access to loads and loads of content bonus pod every week Q &A pod every week. The TSFP newsletter is available to every patron. Doesn't matter what tier level you are, access to that newsletter full of goodness.

54:32Sid Lowe:So make sure you're signed up patreon.com forward slash GSFP. We'll speak soon, amigos. Adios.

54:38Phil Kitromilides:Cheerio.

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