Third-choice goalkeepers

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1:31hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition of tsfp the spanish football podcast i'm phil kitram ladies i'm joined as ever by dr sidlow hello sydney hello philip how are you it's a sunday it's a bit strange yeah full disclosure we are recording this on sunday for the first time in a very long time we haven't done a monday podcast on a on a sunday purely because of logistical issues tomorrow it's a lot easier for us to record today and fortunately the vast majority of this podcast is going to be about Spain and their game last night against Georgia so we thought it doesn't really matter if we record today or if we record on Monday.

2:07We will have lots of other content out at patreon.com forward slash tssfb throughout the rest of the week as we always do during the league season when there's La Liga you get a newsletter you get the tsfp diary you get access to the discord to the whatsapp group zoom calls there's loads of stuff you can get at tsfp um forwards well patreon.com forward slash tsfp from just four euro 75 a month just over a euro a week loads of stuff it's probably worth it uh sid let's start off by that that probably was redundant it's it's not probably worth it's definitely worth it it's Definitely worth a tiny little bit of your money.

2:48Come and give it to us. Anyway, this is free. This is free. So let's get on with the good stuff, shall we, Sid? And discussing Spain, yet another victory, yet another convincing performance. Three wins from three in their World Cup qualifying group. They are all but through to the World Cup next year. Still not mathematically, but a victory against Bulgaria in Valladolid in a couple of days time would seal that spot. You will be there to witness that happening. You weren't in Elche yesterday because of the weather. There was horrific rains in that part of the world. And Sydney, very unlike you, actually took a sensible decision when it comes to going to football matches and you decided, I'm not going down there.

3:32Yeah, because I was going to make the most of it and do a three-day trip. I was doing it by car. If I'd been doing it by train, I'd have still gone. but doing it by car I thought you know what I actually don't want to do that because the travel will be horrendous. I mean it's very very very unlike you in taking the correct and sensible decision so well done I applaud you on that. Let's talk about Spain then because I'm pretty convinced now and this might sound silly after watching them beat Georgia 2-0 I'm pretty convinced Spain are going to win the World Cup now well Would you like me to expand why?

4:09Yes, please do. I just think that this performance yesterday, it was so good and it was so convincing and it was without so many first choice players. The strength in depth is extraordinary. Anyone who comes in does a fantastic job. They know how to play. They know what to do, what the manager wants of them. There's a real sense of unity. There is extraordinary talent and strength in depth. they could feel two very, very strong starting XI's in the World Cup. And I don't know which one would win. I just think that they're the best. They're the best team at the moment. And that doesn't mean that the best team doesn't always win the World Cup.

4:48But I think they are, Sid. I think they're the best team and I think they're going to win the World Cup. I mean, look, as a starting point for who's going to win the World Cup, they are the best team is probably the best place to start, isn't it? Yes, they have the best players. Yeah, I'm actually one individually. this is where you sometimes wonder if they really do but I think the key thing you were talking about was this idea that there's a momentum about them, there's a clarity there's an idea of how to play and that doesn't really change I must admit I felt yesterday certainly in the first half I felt that there was a little bit of spark missing a little bit of ability to kind of break a team down, I suppose in a way it's easy to say that because you go well look at Lamine and Nico and they're not there and it's just kind of a bit too simplistic maybe to maybe you're looking for that to be missing.

5:33And so you think it is missing. I thought there was a little bit of that missing, but you're right. The sense of control of the game, the ability to choose the moments when to speed it up, to try and find the passes that cut through people, to not ever really be put under pressure. Because I can't think of a single moment yesterday where I thought, oh, they might get caught here. And that's one of the things that we used to think with Spain. And I think maybe that is, is that in fact, is that the most significant difference between the Spain of now and the Spain of pre-Euros? which is that pre-Euro, I felt, I don't know whether or not you go along with this, that kind of a big team would catch them.

6:08Because I always felt they were sort of on the edge of being caught out. And you look at them now and you don't feel like they're on that edge anymore. You feel like the sense of control is sufficient, that they're never really going to get caught out. I think, you know, under normal circumstances, we might worry about the fact that there isn't an obvious striker, but then Oya Thabal is that obvious striker. But Ferran can be that obvious striker, maybe. I think you look at the fact that you were talking about strength in depth and possibly it's taken a while. I don't want to go on about Thuby Mendy because we talked about him a little bit in the build-up to this game.

6:42But, you know, you lose someone like Rodri and you've got someone who's playing that same role, not in exactly the same way. In fact, if anything, I would say Thuby Mendy plays it quicker than Rodri. I wouldn't say better, but quicker. I think he plays that role quicker than Rodri does. I think Rodri will slow the game down that little bit more. I agree with you that they're the best around at the moment. I think that Laminya Mal gives them a dimension that they've not had even in their dominant era of winning three tournaments in a row, of something a little bit special, a little bit different, a little bit out of nowhere.

7:16Because I think even then, players of the quality of Xabi and Iniesta, there was a smoothness to them, there was a technique and all that. But this kind of sort of improvisation and do something unexpected, which I think they've now got with Lamin, assuming that he's okay by then. The only reason I would say no to your statement, really, is that it's a tournament and shit happens, and there's lots of other good teams around. But yeah, if you look at Spain, you think absolutely they're certainly one of two or three favourites, definitely. As we discussed on the Friday podcast, we are not open for gambling sponsorships.

7:52But we did look at the website of some bookmakers in Spain are the favourites to win the World Cup next season, which is obviously conditioned by where the money is going as well. But also, I think it does underline the fact that it's not just us that feel that Spain are the best team at the moment. Their World Cup qualification campaign has been impeccable. Three wins out of three, 11 goals scored, none conceded. Obviously, the caveat is that they've played Georgia, Turkey and Bulgaria. But these are solid European footballing nations. It's not Liechtenstein, Moldova and San Marino. You know, it's three teams that could, in theory, and could in the past, have caused you some problems, but there hasn't even been a whiff of any problem in any of those three matches.

8:35I just want to pick up on something that you were talking about there, Sid, with Subi Mendy and Rodri. And it does feel like with this Spain side now that they do have players missing and they have had players missing, but whoever's come in has kind of like really taken their opportunity and given the manager something to think about extensively. Pedro Porro at right back over Dani Carvajal, who starts there? At the moment, it's difficult to not put Pedro Porro in the team. It's difficult to leave Thuby Mendy out of the team, even with Rodri fully fit. He wasn't for this particular set of fixtures, but Thuby Mendy has stated the case.

9:11Mikel Marino ahead of Fabian Ruiz. There are so many issues, good for the manager, all over the pitch in terms of selection, which is going back to what we were saying about strength. I was just thinking about you saying that about Pedro Borrell now, and there's a doubt over whether he starts over Carvajal. Given the level of performance and given the dynamism with which Marcos Llorente came onto the pitch yesterday, you look at that list and you think, could there actually be a third name in this? Because his performance level is so high at the moment that maybe there could be a third name in that as well.

9:42And I certainly think Marcos Llorente will end up getting a place in the squad because he gives you versatility and he gives you other things, and not just the yellow glasses. but you kind of go around and you know you're mentioning Fabian Ruiz and look at the risk of going over old ground before the Euros in 2024 at the Spain get together before they travelled in Las Rojas there was a kind of a media day thing where there was a group of us maybe 15 or so of us and talking we got the chance to speak to quite a lot of Spanish players that day and there was kind of this rotating structure and anyway one of the recurring The reason I bring that up, apart from just giving you the insight of how it works, is it was quite interesting because what it meant was we had players turn up and we would talk to them in a little group and then another player would turn up and we'd talk to him in a little group and another player would turn up and we'd talk to him in a little group.

10:32The reason I bring it up is because it gave me a nice insight into the recurring questions, the things that were concerning Spanish journalists, if you see what I mean, and the things that kept coming up. One of the things that kept coming up was this idea that Spain just don't have the players who are the best in the world. And it's an idea that me and you discussed as well going into the tournament. This idea that, yeah, they've got lots of good players. Yes, there's a clear identity. Yes, everyone's technically very good. And when they get it right, they're exceptional. But that, as I said before, that sense that I had at least, that they were vulnerable.

11:03That there were moments where they would balls it up and that they would make a mistake and it might cost them. And against a team like France, it probably would. But the main thing was that idea that, you know, there aren't these players there. You look in the Spain team and you think, well, how many of those players realistically would be candidates for the Ballon d 'Or? And it's still so clear in my mind seeing Alvaro Morata stand there and say, well, Rodri already should be. Nico could be. Lamine will be. He mentioned a couple of others as well, which were slightly less convincing. But just those three.

11:34So how many do you want us to have? He said, you know, you lot don't notice it, but Fabian Rief's a really good player. and one of the other parts of this I like is that after the final in the stadium in Berlin we were waiting for the players to leave and Morata came out quite near the end with obviously medal around his neck and delighted and stuff and he didn't actually stop and talk in terms of from a kind of formal media point of view but he did have a little bit of a brief chat with a small group of I was going to say a group of us that would be unfair because it would make it sound like I was important I was sort of on the edge of this group hanging around while people were talking to Morata.

12:10And one of the things that was said to him was, you know, you said before the tournament, I've got an eye for a player, me. And it was this kind of, and it was this real, you know, it was, it was, it was sort of between the lines. It was, come on, lads, you know, there's good footballers here. And I think what's happened is that time has reinforced us and made us believe that they really have. And actually the players maybe haven't changed that much, except for in confidence and in a sense of assuredness in the way they play. But the quality of players is probably there, more than we thought before, and maybe more quality than before.

12:40Not least, of course, because at that point, when Morata said that, Luminium was 16. Yeah, literally a child. He's come on a bit since then. He has. I mean, he was brilliant then, and he's come on a bit. And people are frightened of him now. And there's a cockiness about him, which I think, obviously, he's a double-edged sword, but I think in competitive terms it's really exciting, really exciting. You mentioned Alvaro Morata there who wasn't in this squad for technical reasons, wasn't called up by the manager. We'll see whether or not he's in the squad for the World Cup. I would say the chances are receding.

13:18Starting up front for Spain, Mikel Ollarzabal, who looks very much like having his place nailed on in the starting 11, something we discussed in the preview prod on Friday. It made me laugh because I was listening to reaction to this on the Spanish radio last night and I wonder why it made you laugh they managed to turn this into a massive argument debate who would have thought it polemic even controversy about the penalty that Spain missed because the penalty was given to Spain it was won by Ferran Ferran took it Mikel Ollarzabel probably should have taken it he is the designated penalty taker but he said no Ferran you can have it and it was really well saved by Mahmoud Ashvili.

14:01It wasn't the best penalty, but it was well saved. And on the radio, there was a disgrace. Why? Well, Thamel needs to be taking this. How can you let this? Blah, blah, blah. The manager needs to come out and the manager was asked about this and he was like, look, Ferran is a specialist penalty taker as well. He wanted to take it. Mikel let him take it. It's not an issue, but they were desperate to make it an issue. I was thinking, guys, you just won 2-0. You're basically at the World Cup. You've got the best team in the world and we're sitting spout furiously about this absolute nonsense. It's a complete non-issue, I think, and it's the desire of the Spanish media to always have a polemic and a debate about absolutely bloody nothing, Sid.

14:40I mean, for what it's worth, I think it's a very, very, very minor issue, which in a minute and a half you can deal with, which is that if you look at Spain's penalties, six different men have taken the last six penalties, and that suggests something. But it's not particularly... Nicolai O 'Fabllo will take it. If that was like the World Cup quarterfinals, he would have taken that. And by the way, just because he's the first George penalty taker doesn't mean he won't miss. He could still miss. We have this idea that somehow it's changing the penalty taker that makes him miss. Well, it might increase the chances of him missing, but it's not like you've chosen to miss.

15:12Do you know what you're talking about that reminded me of? I'm trying to think which tournament it is. But it might even have been the Euros. Was it the Euros? anyway where there was this huge debate over who was basically going to be Spain's third choice goalkeeper I can't think which tournament it is now it might have been the Euros anyway and I remember saying to a Spanish colleague mate if the best you've got is who's your third choice goalie it's fine don't worry about it you're gonna be okay you could take me as a third choice goal and it probably wouldn't matter yeah I don't know if you'd be as good in the in the dressing room as some of the other third first you've got the bants of Pepe Reina I don't think I've got the bants of Pepe Reina I don't think I've got the emotional it's a good thing yes absolutely I don't think I've got the emotional intelligence of Alex Romero I certainly haven't got the shot saving saving ability of I've replaced but you know the world's biggest soccer tournament has arrived and you can trade the entire tournament on Calci on Calci you can trade every match from the opening stage all the way to the final on Calci you're trading against peers in a live market meaning there's no house.

16:20And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the CalShea app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, CalShea. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calshea.com slash regulatory. If you're a small business owner, you'll know just what it's like to be the chief everything officer. HR, payroll, employee benefits.

16:51Well, Gusto can do all of that for you. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use. It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast. Try Gusto today at gusto.com forward slash locked on soccer and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's gusto.com forward slash locked on soccer. Hey, it's Bill from the Bill Simmons podcast. FIFA World Cup 26 fans, listen up. As the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, Michelob Ultra is giving away$1 million worth of FIFA World Cup 26 tickets and prizes.

17:30Enter now at MichelobUltra.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26. Michelob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26, superior access, no purchase necessary. Open U.S. Residence 21 Plus begins on December 1st, 2025, ends on July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods. Visit www.micelobUltra.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. I just want to quickly go back to the midfield as well, because we mentioned Subimendi and we've mentioned Rodri. And at the moment, we've got what looks like a really good midfield three of Subimendi, Pedri, and Mikael Marino who seem to be understanding each other extremely well.

18:05Pedri playing a little bit deeper, which has obviously suited him a lot. Mikael Marino has the ability to get forward and get into spaces where he can be extremely dangerous. I mean, those three work really, really well. Whereas in theory, the first choice midfield three is Rodri, Pedri and Fabian Ruiz. So like I said, it goes back to the strengthening depth, like we were saying. But that midfield three is very difficult to envisage those three not starting at the moment, the way that they're playing and playing together. And you can't play Zubimendi and Rodri together, can you? And then you have to put Pedri a little bit further forward.

18:42And that doesn't really, I don't know. Well, let me put the caveat on what you just said. Those three seem to be the starting midfield and it makes sense. And the alternative three would be to have Fabian Marith and Rodri and Pedri in there. And then it's structured differently. We were talking about this a bit on Friday. The other structural caveat to this, of course, is that they have tried to play with a two and one in front, which is Dani Olmo. And at the moment, it looks like Dani Olmo doesn't have that place. and that with Mikel Moreno, he can be further forward, but also drop into midfield and kind of cover a lot more ground.

19:16And so I think you've got that option. You mentioning Rodri and Fouy Mendy playing together, on the face of it, I would agree with you. The answer is no. But there are shades a little bit, aren't there, of what Del Bosque did with Busquets and Xavi Alonso and have them both. Now, I don't think De La Fuente will do that because I think he is comfortable in his structure. and but I do think it's a difficult decision to make and I do wonder if there's a little bit of Lewis De Lafouette who kind of thinks it would be nice if my decision was made for me somehow which is not to say I want Rodri injured but maybe you know it'd be nice for it to be clear-cut that Rodri's maybe not fully there yet or whatever I mean he's not fully there yet to be honest even in terms of fitness and in terms of performances so uh while he gets there they've got the next best thing, right?

20:08Well, and this was exactly Luis De La Fuente's phrase. He said, you know, I've got the best central midfielder in the world, but I've also got the second best. And at that point, I don't think we would agree. But I think now we probably would. In fact, we might not say second best. Just in case you're watching the podcast on YouTube, I just had to leave the recording post for a few seconds. Apologies, apologies for that. But normal service is being resumed seamlessly. You know, I had to say that for the YouTube viewers, but the Spotify listeners, nobody would. Wouldn't even have known because I just talked over it.

20:38It's not our first time. It's actually now that we're putting the podcast behind the scenes here, guys. Now we're putting it on YouTube. Can't really do this, but it's happened many, many, many, many, many times that the doorbell has rung and I've had to go to the front door and I've just left Sid talking. He's talked, he's talked, he's talked. I've come back, put my headphones on. He's still talking, still talking, still talking. So, yes, but now we're trying not to do that because we're trying to make this a slightly more professional set up here but um we are the third third choice goalkeepers where it's all about the bands yeah right exactly yeah man it's all about it's all about who is is romero is still the third choice goalkeeper isn't he yeah yeah yeah that i mean that that by the way that is also yeah i mean you know when you have to try to see you yeah it's going to become a debate that it's 100 % is going to become a debate so who's i mean when i see him on his first choice right Yeah, and David Laya is playing so well.

21:31And there isn't any reason to leave anyone out. And I suppose this already was a debate a little bit for this first squad get-together. And I saw a debate, I saw a lot of it from Real Madrid fans. In fact, there was one, I mean, I don't want to make a star of a single man, but it was like, this is a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace. We all know what's going to happen. It's a total disgrace that Joanne Garcia played brilliantly all last year, wasn't called up to the national team. As soon as he signed for Barcelona, he'll be called up to the national team. The squad list came out and he wasn't called up.

21:58And I basically gave him a tweet. So now what? And I was probably running the risk of getting into another debate, which he didn't need to get into. But that will be a debate at some point. I can guarantee it. Yes, it will. And if he was playing for Real Madrid, even more so. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? I mean, anyone in Spanish who plays for Real Madrid for two games, there's already this huge kind of thing. Did somebody say Nacho? Nacho Selegfion. I mean, even Thabajos gets counted once in a while. Even Thabajos, yes. There is the great Spanish word overbooking. It's not a Spanish word, though, is it?

22:33It's an English word, which they've sort of made up and use in this country. Yeah, because I was going to say, because we don't say overbooking. We would say doublebooking, wouldn't we? Yeah. I mean, you wouldn't even say that. Overbooking when there's too much, you know, too many people in a place. There's overbooking. There is overbooking in the Spain midfield, which is good, which is obviously good for Spain. Spain. So that's Spain then. They will book their place at the World Cup when they beat Bulgaria in Via the League. Oh, you've done it now. Here comes the unexpected draw. Yeah, maybe.

23:09If they beat Bulgaria. There we go. Seamlessly covered my tracks. You're going to that one, right? I am, yes. Driving or train? Oh, driving because it's Via the Leith and the beauty of Via the Leith is you can get back the same night. Obviously, you go by train. You can't. You have to wait until the following day. The beauty of Via the League is that you don't have to spend very long there that's that's doing vitality disservice it is doing that vitality disservice i mean from a professional point of view it's quite handy to be able to drive there park at the stadium turn around and drive back and be home at by two o 'clock in the morning i'll be home probably uh patrons uh on thursday had an unbelievable experience hearing sid react live to me breaking the news to him that oviedo had sat the manager um if you've i mean you won't be able to believe this guys but Sid was speechless he was literally speechless like he didn't know what to say he was stunned into just bewildered silence it was a extraordinary thing to behold and and to and to and to listen to you've had a few days to come to terms with that we've done the TSFP diary as well on on on that situation so go and check that out if you're a if you're a patron.

24:17It means that Oviedo are the first team to have sacked their manager in La Liga this season. And it means that there's a new guy at the helm who is also an old guy at the helm in Luis Carrion. Yeah, there are lots and lots of ways to pick up on this. And I feel like I could be here. I mean, I think we can keep it brief. I will try to. So first of all is the reaction to the sacking of Paunovic. And it still feels slightly baffling. And it still feels slightly baffling unless there is something else that we do not know. Because Paunovic came in to Raul Oviedo on a mission, basically on a 10-game mission, which turned out to be a 14-game mission to get Raul Oviedo up to provoke a reaction, to get them competing, to bring them up.

24:58He did that. In that sense, he is, you know, at the risk of sounding like a fan, he's a legend, right? He's now a legend. He got Oviedo to the first division 24 years later and that won't ever be forgotten by anyone um i personally think and i actually genuinely thought this in the summer that there was a possibility that raulov edda wouldn't continue with him that this was a guy that came for a very specific task and that maybe if they had a roadmap a plan for the future that in the summer they would they would grasp the nettle and say okay look thank you and you're a legend but we don't continue but they didn't do that now i don't know if they didn't do that um because they felt their hands are tied or if because they thought, wow, this guy really is brilliant and this is exactly what we want.