We've seen this game before

0:00Phil Kitromilides:Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.

0:22Hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition of the Spanish Football Podcast. I'm Phil Kitromilides. I'm joined by a jubilant Sid Lowe. Hello, Sydney, in your King Caviello shirt. Hello, Philip.

0:35Phil Kitromilides:Hello. We actually won a game, helped by the fact that Sevilla went down to 10 men quite early on. And Uruguayan beefcake Fede Vines scored the head of the... Well, I was going to say gave us a chance, but it maybe didn't because of another, even more eye-catching result from this weekend. So we're recording on Sunday evening, because tomorrow is very busy, obviously, Champions League preview and all that. So we thought we'd do the Sunday night slot, which means that we won't be able to talk about Alaves against Osasuna, which is the Sunday night game. And Monday night football is Girona Villarreal.

1:09But this is everything else that happened on Match Day 30 in La Liga EA Sports. Friday night, so Ray Vallecano managed to actually score a goal and win a game of football. They beat Elche 1-0 at Vallecas. An unlikely hero in Randy Enteca, big Randy coming off the bench and managing to put the ball into the back of the net, something Rio are not very good at. Then on Saturday, Real Sociedad beat Levante by two goals to nil. Pretty decent performance from La Real. Mallorca beating Real Madrid 2-1 in the eye-catching performance that Sydney was referring to. Vedat Morici scoring an injury-time winner after Eda Militao thought that he'd salvaged at least a point for Real Madrid with a late equaliser.

1:56Betis and Espanyol played out a nil-nil draw, although Betis should have won. Espanyol still haven't won in 2026. And then the game of the weekend was Atletico Madrid against Barcelona. It was won by Barcelona, 2-1, a late goal from Bobby Lewandowski off the bench onto the score sheet. More on that in just a moment. Sunday saw just, you know, this ridiculous run from Getafe continue. They are pushing for a Champions League spot. I mean, not far off. It's not, you know, they're not a million miles away from a Champions League spot. They beat Athletic Club 2-0 at the Coliseum. Luz Vazquez and Mati Satriano scoring the goals.

2:39Tremendous January signings they are. Now, Celta Vigo beating Valencia 3-2 at Mestalla, continuing their sensational away record. Celta, they hadn't won at Mestalla for 10 years, really got a terrible record there. But they were trailing 1-0 at halftime, but they turned things around in the second half and Celta march on. And Ray Loviedo beat 10-man Sevilla by a goal to nil, as you said, scored by glorious Fede Vines. Now, if you haven't got your tickets for TSFP Live in London already, it's not too late. There are a few left. We'll be upstairs at the Fox on the Green pub on Upper Street, Islington on Friday, the 24th of April from 6.30 p.m.

3:18Tickets are£19.50. That includes a drink. You can find the link in the episode description. And of course, you should come and join us at Patreon.com forward slash TSFP. There is loads of bonus content over there. You get the Monday and Friday podcast without any ads. There's a weekly Q &A pod. There's a bonus pod. And there's the TSFP newsletter, the diary and the discord. Over the summer, as always, we'll be podding exclusively for patrons. So come and join us from€4.75 a month. It's even cheaper if you get annual membership. So, Sydney, let's start by talking about the big game of the weekend, which was obviously at the Metropolitano, Atletico Madrid, making a number of changes for this game against Barcelona.

3:56Obviously, it meant considerably more to Barcelona than it did to Atleti. It was actually a pretty good performance from Atletico Madrid when it was 11 against 11, they competed pretty well. Nico Gonzalez managed to get himself sent off and they played the whole of the second half with a man fewer, but they held out until late on, Bobby Lewandowski with that goal. You were there, Sid, you were pitch side. What did you make of the whole thing?

4:23Phil Kitromilides:Well, what I made of it, first of all, is as you say, it was pretty good fun. It was quite open. Atletico Madrid possibly created more than I think we might have expected them to create. I think they had probably decided that this was a game where they didn't want to give too much away. They certainly didn't want players getting tired. And I must confess that when they went down to 10 men, you kind of looked at it and thought this might be the worst possible scenario for them, which is a scenario in which not only do they not win, but they have players tired out. I think we see that, for example, in the decision to remove Koke relatively early, in the decision to make substitutions.

4:56Phil Kitromilides:I think there were three of them, if I remember rightly, or two of them on 60 minutes. And that felt for all the world like a decision that was pre, you know, kind of pre-planned. that this is right on a couple of players, a handful of players only get an hour. The way they created their chances was in a semi-predictable way, in that they were relatively direct through the middle of Barcelona. And that perhaps is a surprise. It wasn't so much the two channels, which is what we saw in the Copa del Rey game when they tore Barcelona to bits, with people bombing down the two wings. It was also right through the middle.

5:26Phil Kitromilides:And the first goal they score is really remarkably simple because it's not even a particularly... I was going to say it's not a particularly well-hit pass. I suppose it is a well-hit pass because it finds its target, but it's not a particularly hard-hit pass. So it's floated up. Barca have a lot of time to see it. They don't judge the runs of the players well at all, and they get caught, and Simeone scores. I thought that Barcelona's opening to the game was actually pretty good. I thought they made two or three reasonably good chances around the edge of the Atletico area. There's the one where Laminio Maldas is extraordinary nutmeg and outside the boot pass.

5:59Phil Kitromilides:There's another little interchange on the edge of the box involving Dani Olmo, which is really, really good indeed. and it was interesting to see Olmo play as a false nine. Then you get the Marcus Rashford goal. And at that point, you're thinking, this is going to be a really good, fun second half with, I think, not an obvious favourite, but the feeling even then that possibly this would evolve in Barcelona's favour, partly because of what you said at the start. And I think this is the important preface for this whole analysis, which is that ultimately this probably mattered more to Barcelona.

6:27Phil Kitromilides:It matters more. I think it did. I think that's true. Which isn't to say that Atletico didn't want to win, of course, but I think it does play a part. And then once it went down to 10 men, I think what that did was that it settled the approach to the game. As much as settling the result, and of course I think it absolutely has an impact on the result and makes it easier, of course, in theory, for Barcelona to get the victory. I think what it did was it settled the approach from Atletico, which was, OK, you make those changes, you try and reinforce the midfield, you play a little bit deeper, maybe you do jettison some of the chasing of people down, You do maybe allow them to advance a little bit further than you would normally like, but you try and stop them in that kind of rough area, sort of seven, eight, nine, ten yards outside your penalty area.

7:10Phil Kitromilides:If needs be, you will be forced back. But I didn't think that Atletico went full bus parking. I think they tried to step out a little bit. And it was quite enjoyable because although Atletico were down to ten men, I thought they prevented Barcelona, who had all of the ball in the second half, or nearly all of the ball in the second half, prevented them from creating really clear chances. There was a couple. There's one that Lamine swings just past the post. There's another really nice move to the right, comes into the six-yard box, and it gets cleared right on the edge of the six-yard box. There were a couple of moments.

7:41Phil Kitromilides:Let's speak to what you were saying about Bobby Lewandowski. When that falls for him, that winning goal, and it's what, 89th minute, and it's a bit lucky, bounces off Juan Moussa's chest and hits him on the chest and goes in, and it's a bit fortunate. But it is also true, it's the ball dropping in the kind of areas where it had done a couple of times and Ferran Torres hadn't quite been there. And I don't, am I being oversimplistic? I think I am being oversimplistic, to be fair, but allow me to be oversimplistic just to make the point. I felt a little bit like there we saw the difference between a number nine and Ferran Torres, who, by the way, was really, really good last season, was really quite good for the first half of this season.

8:20Phil Kitromilides:But just that little thing there, you kind of feel like when it comes to waiting for a decisive moment, even if his overall contribution isn't what it once was, Lewandowski still feels like, to me at least, the natural choice up front. Ferran Torres now 13 games without scoring. And it was perhaps a bit of a blow for him to see Dani Olmo try that false nine instead. Yes, I think it would have been. Yeah, absolutely. Getting the nod. Lots for us to talk about this particular game, Sid. Let's talk about Laminya Marlon and his quite ridiculous performance. The first sort of 20 minutes of him in this game were just absurd.

8:56And I feel like you've done a slightly injustice by talking about that bit of ridiculous, incredible, eye-catching, magnificent, almost historic bit of skill that he did. The nutmeg and the outside of the boot pass into the path of Ferdinand Lopez by just saying, you know, I was extraordinary. Yeah, that was genius. Yeah. Genius from Levy. That's one of the best bits of play we will see all season. It didn't count for anything. There's no goal. There's no assist. There's no nothing. None of the statistics will reflect it. But it was just a ridiculous bit of play from Lamine. He looked absolutely on it last night.

9:35And everything he did, every bit of skill, every bit of step over, every audacious bit of play, it wasn't done to show off. It was done because it was effective. It was the best way of getting or doing what he wanted to do. He wasn't doing it to show off. He was doing it because it was effective. And that's what I like about Lamine. So let's talk about his performance here. But then also we should talk about his reaction because he went off angry and he didn't celebrate the winning goal. Yeah. And he went off angry.

10:05Phil Kitromilides:And I mean, look, we don't know the reason for it. We are interpreting this rather than knowing this. But it felt to me that this was a reaction of a player who felt that they'd been pushed the wire longer than they should have been. you know that the result had come late that it'd been a little fortunate that a player who felt that he'd taken on a huge amount of responsibilities to lead them in creative terms to take the ball to go at people to make things happen and it wasn't quite coming off that at times the decision making of his teammates wasn't great once or twice it wasn't great from him but I think for the most part it was right um there's the moment I mean that piece of skill which was extraordinary and by the way I was at the other end and I thought oh that was good and then when I watched it on pre-play, which I didn't actually see until later that night.

10:49Phil Kitromilides:God, that was even better than I thought because the angle of it. And it was very reminiscent of the two that he did against Mallorca. Remember last season where there's two that are almost identical, sort of bend with the outside of the boot into quite a lot of space, admittedly, but having to hit exactly the right point. There was a moment in the second half, which was right in front of me, which is that move when he comes in off the right and he goes past a couple of players and it only takes him to the edge of the area. And then there's his momentary pause. And then he goes past a couple more and then he slots it just past I suppose, and the ball actually almost hits where we're sitting.

11:20Phil Kitromilides:And you could see the angle and you could see it opening up. And you just thought, there's no way he should have been, first of all, thinking that he can get through there, let alone doing it. And I felt then, even then, having just watched him do something amazing, that he hadn't, that the frustration in him wasn't just about the fact that the shot didn't come off, which I'm sure that was the primary thing. The shot didn't quite come off and it faded a little bit wide rather than taking that little bend that would have taken it inside the post. But it was also that I felt at least, and I don't know if I'm over-interpreting this, and I may well be, that part of the frustration was the fact that he had to do the second run.

11:57Phil Kitromilides:Do you see what I mean? That he'd worked himself into position, and there's two more. And I think, you know, this is about Atletico double-legging up on him, but it's also about that feeling that the space in front of him and the other players need to stretch the pitch a little bit more to enable, to take people away from him or to make it mean that when he's taken on two players, that should in theory leave you a big space. And it didn't. And that run, I thought, was really indicative of that, which is that he kept on doing it and then kept on having that moment when it looks like it's opening up, just closing on him.

12:30Phil Kitromilides:Which is why I think you can look at this at the end of the game and think, well, maybe he wasn't as effective and maybe this wasn't his greatest performance. But I think watching him up close, the speed of his feet, the way that he moves, the way that he draws players in, he is really, really special. Really special. Really special. I mean, we know that. I've just stated the bleeding obvious, I know, but it was very, very interesting to watch up close. Let's just make Diego Simeone's decision to start Nico Gonzalez at left back. Absolutely not. A little bit questionable. And then when he was booked for, he was booked for trying to catch the ball on the halfway line.

13:06Phil Kitromilides:he was booked for doing what you do when you're playing with your mates on the on the football salar court by your house or when you're playing well i'm going to take you back to my child when you're playing on new river you know the ball is going out of play and what do you do you jump up and you catch it because no one wants to waste time of having to go and chase the ball right so he did that the ball wasn't going out of play it was going clean through for the medium art and he literally jumped up and he didn't quite catch it actually he sort of slapped it down with his hands do you know what's funny about well what's interesting about this from an analytical point of view.

13:36Phil Kitromilides:I mean, apart from the daftness of that catch, which I think he probably felt he had to do, because I think he probably knew that Lamine had caught his space behind him, is that if you look at the second yellow card, which was then converted into a direct red, so he would have been off anyway, so it really doesn't make a huge amount of difference, is it's basically the same move. They're totally different things. One's a handball and the other's a foul, but both of them are the actions of a man who is at left back against Lamine Yamal and has been caught by the clipped curled ball into the space behind him.

14:06Phil Kitromilides:And both times he doesn't know what to do. So basically the first time it's like, oh God, better stop it. Jumps up, has a bit of a head fart, jumps up, catches the ball. The second time, realise he's been caught, goes after Lamin, is worried he's not going to get there and makes a really obvious foul, which because it's a clear goal scoring opportunity, in the opinion of the referee, having seen the bar screen, becomes a direct red, but would have been a yellow anyway. It highlights the fact that there isn't a second left back in this squad for Diego Simeone. Obviously he wanted to rest Matteo Ruggeri.

14:35He could have played young Julio Diaz, who he has done a couple of times this season, but that would have been perhaps an even bigger risk. So we tried Nico Gonzalez. It did not work out. Just on the second yellow card, which was a long, long VAR. Yeah, much longer than it needed to be, in my opinion. Redition. But my point, Sid, is that VAR upgrading to a red card, that can happen at the break. That can happen after the game. we don't need a five minute review he's off yeah yeah he's off yeah in practical terms it didn't make i didn't know what they were doing i actually didn't know what they're looking at

15:13Phil Kitromilides:what we thought in the stadium yeah exactly that what we thought was clearly out he was clearly out so i but then part of nico's body was just in the penalty area as he was making the tackle but the contact was outside so i was thinking is this a new rule that if you're part of your body's in but the actual contact is outside it's a penalty I had no idea anyway that's my suggestion guys can I let you in a little those kind of reviews just just do it afterwards it doesn't matter yeah I'll let you in a little secret um I was watching the game behind the goal with Mario Suarez the former Atletico Madrid midfielder um because we were working on the game together for ESPN and John Garcia when the long wait happened came over to Mario to ask him what he thought it was for there was a bit of a conversation he said no I don't think it's a penalty I think it was outside.

16:00Phil Kitromilides:I don't think it's a penalty. So, no, it can't be that. What's Mario's English like? Very good. Is it? Yeah. Very good indeed. Okay. Well, that's interesting. Very interesting. All right. Yes. All right. Speaking of red cards and sending us off, the Gerard Martin red card, which was shown right at the start of the second half, which could have been a very different second half, had it been unheld. But VAR got involved and told the referee to go and have a look and said that it wasn't a straight red What did you make of all this? Do you know what? What I made of this is that I don't really have an adequate answer for you.

16:35Phil Kitromilides:And I was thinking about this yesterday. And the reason I say this is that for me, two things happen that are absolutely clear cut, but they contradict each other. This is why I don't have a clear answer for you. Because the first thing is that Gerard Martin, it's not even a tackle. It's him kicking the ball. And he's kicking the ball and he's entirely entitled to kick the ball. And he's in possession of the ball and he kicks the ball and he swings through. That bit is absolutely clear cut. there's nothing wrong with that what happens next is also clear cut as he swings through he puts his studs on the ankle directly on the ankle and so if you take either of those two things in isolation you can absolutely say not even a foul and absolutely say oof could be a red that or a bright yellow an orange yellow but could be a red and so those two things slightly contradict each other now here's the thing that I don't understand and I've had this discussion with my with my usual point of contact when it comes to asking about refereeing decisions when I'm a bit baffled.

17:31Phil Kitromilides:What I don't really understand is why the VAR intervened, because I think this was an interpretive one. And so I don't really see it as a black and white VAR intervention decision, to be very honest. Completely agree. The referee has seen it. He's made his judgment call. It's right in front of him. And why is the VAR getting involved? Yeah, that's the bit I didn't understand. So, I mean, I could have understood either decision. In truth, I could have understood either decision. What I couldn't really understand is the VAR intervening. And then there's been a little bit of a hoo-ha because if you listen to the VAR audio, the guy in the VAR room says the normal thing, come and have a look for a possible change of the decision.

18:10Phil Kitromilides:And then he shows in the footage, and the guy in the VAR room, which I think is Melero López, says, in my opinion, that's an entirely normal movement. of the foot. Now, for what it's worth, you can have that opinion. Absolutely fine. But you shouldn't be saying that. Exactly. In theory, you're in the bar room. You should only be saying a handful of things. The first one is you should be saying, come and have a look at it so that you have a look at a possible change in this for this reason. Boom. You can then say, I'm going to show you the other angle, which gives you the contact. You can then say, I'm going to show you the slowed down version so that you see who gets the first.

18:49Phil Kitromilides:What you can't say is, listen, mate, I reckon it's a pen. Give a pen. Or listen, mate, I reckon it's a red. Give a red. You're not supposed to be saying that. They're absolutely not supposed to be saying that. But there we go. The decision was overturned and Gerard Martin played the rest of the second half. This is, of course, the first in the 10-day trilogy of Barcelona against Atletico Madrid. We've got the second coming up on Wednesday night in the first leg of the Champions League quarterfinal. How will this condition the rest of the trilogy? Because I feel like, you know, obviously Barcelona got the win.

19:21Great. You know, that's what they wanted. The seven points clear at the top. But also, Atletico Madrid put in the kind of performance that can reinforce them.

19:30Phil Kitromilides:Absolutely agree. And before the game, they were talking to Atletico's supporting colleagues. They were saying, you know, if we lose 1-0, that's fine. So long as we look like we've competed. So long as we don't get anyone injured. So long as we're not exhausted off the back of it. and obviously, you know, in an ideal world, maybe a couple of their guys get injured or a couple of their guys are exhausted, then great. I think that this performance did that. I think we see that in the introduction of two youth teamers. You look at that midfield at the end of the game, the four across midfield. I think it was three of them under 21 and the other 24.

20:01Phil Kitromilides:I think Baragas is 23 or 4. You know, four players who normally wouldn't play. So you're allowing some rotation there, partly, of course, because they didn't have players available across midfield. You have to get Koke off early. You have to get Griezmann off early. You have to give Juliana a run out, but not for very long. And I think all of those things happened. And so you've largely... I think Juliana... Yeah, yeah. Sorry, yes. You've largely got what you wanted from this game. Now, there is one counter-argument to that. And there was a bit... You're sort of thinking, the worst case scenario for Atletico here is just when it looks like Real Madrid have blown the league is to give it back to them by beating Barcelona.

20:38Phil Kitromilides:But actually, it would have been handy to have forced Barcelona into a position where they couldn't risk rotating next weekend between the two Champions League games. Now, I do think there is a bit of a risk that we talk ourselves into a spiral that makes it all about the two Champions League games and we ignore this game because this game was big, at least for Barcelona. But yeah, I agree with you. I think if we look at this in the context of the trilogy, in which each game is slightly more important than the last until we reach the third game, which will be the big one, unless, of course, the first game delivers a result that means the third game's irrelevant, which isn't very likely, the first Champions League game, that is.

21:10Phil Kitromilides:I think this is a game that sets it up reasonably nicely and says that they will be competitive Sydney, league title race, over? Yeah, well What did you say last week? Well, it's worse than last week I think I said it on Thursday Did you say on Thursday? So literally just two ladies I said, oh, Real Madrid are going to win the league, aren't they? Oh, you did say that Yes, we have it on tape I sort of looked at how somehow they kept getting away with it I thought, I've been here before We've all been here before And I was looking at pictures this weekend And I will be honest, I didn't anticipate Real Madrid being beaten in Mallorca, even though, and we'll come on to this game in a minute, let's leave it for the moment, even though it actually played out the way we've seen some games play out this season.

21:50Phil Kitromilides:And I thought that, yeah, there's a very good chance, partly because of the conditioning factor of it being three games, that Barcelona don't win at the Metropolitano. And the opposite happened. So it's seven points. So is it over? No, because it's never entirely over. But I think it's pretty close now, yes. And in the complete opposite direction to what I said just two days ago. So that tells you, don't trust me. Good. We won't. Good. One other thing, Kitra, before we move on. I just wanted to say something because I'm going to say that I saw up close a really impressive and very striking performance from a player who, I'll be honest with you, I was not at all convinced about.

22:30Phil Kitromilides:And so, Giao Cancelo, just let me say, you played very well indeed. and he has been playing well for a while yeah he has been exactly I agree with you yeah absolutely absolutely yeah so anyway that's Jao Cancelo who like the rest of this episode has brought to you by our friends at NordVPN Phil is he okay that's news to Jao I'm sure but there we go he's a guy what are these guys talking about yes uh you guys obviously know that we travel a lot covering Spanish football we follow Spanish teams around Europe in the Champions League or we go to you you know, three games a weekend in the domestic league.