Are Bryson DeChambeau and his 3m YouTube followers keeping LIV Golf alive?

0:02Gabby:This is a Global Player original podcast. At the start of this week, the PGA Tour made a big move. News broke that five-time major champion Brooks Koepka had been given special permission to return from the breakaway Live Tour. And this limited time offer, sounds like we're doing one of our ads, was extended to only three other players, John Rahm, Cam Smith and Bryson DeChambeau, who, as of recording this, are staying put. And Bryson in particular sounded over the moon about it. I'm contracted through 2026, so excited about this year. All right. So has this backfired on the PGA Tour or has the first domino fallen and are Liv actually in trouble?

0:45What has it actually cost Brooks to come back and how are the rest of the tour supposed to feel about the special treatment?

0:50Gabby:Welcome to the Sports Agents.

1:01The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Hello, Mark.

1:09Gabby:Hi, Gabby. Normally when we do this, we've got a list of subjects that we think we've sort of pre-planned that can be on a list to talk about. But I'm just going to throw something in there because I read it on my way up to the studio. And it blew my mind, which is, have you seen this at the Masters snooker? So the Masters snooker is going on at Ali Pali. And it started on Sunday and all the first round matches have finished. So that's, there's only 16 players who appear in it. So there's eight first round matches. They have all finished six frames to two, all of them. I heard this this morning on the radio.

1:48Gabby:If you'd put money on it, it was 220 ,000 to one that all of them would have finished 6-2. And then the other thing I read is if you'd predicted 6-2 and the winner of each of those games, 20 million to one. I can't imagine any bookie would have taken that. I was about to say, when you say if, I mean... It absolutely blew my mind when I read that this morning. It is extraordinary, extraordinary. I was about to say, it's good to see you sat still in one place. You've been all over the country this week. I just want to apologise on behalf of Newcastle United fans because that wasn't compelling sport at times the other night.

2:34I was a bit disappointed.

2:35Gabby:We've lost a bit of jeopardy in that semi-final, I think, for the second leg. We talked about it both nights, actually. i i i know there's too much football but i do love the two-legged semi-finals of the carabao cup just it's just a bit different and i'm not saying that because i it means i get to present four shows rather than two but it is i do like the fact that it's different and it makes newcastle in particular maybe more than any other team feels like it makes a big difference whether they're home or away in the first and second legs. It makes a big difference. And last year they battered Arsenal in the second leg at St James' Park.

3:16Gabby:But this time the sort of discussion was they didn't really know whether to stick or twist to go for it against City or make sure they were still in it for the second leg. And we've had such a good record against City at home of late in recent seasons that I don't understand why we didn't go for it. And yeah, I was just a bit disappointed because obviously we've come through a tricky test in the FA Cup at the weekend. And I felt like we would have had a bit more about us, a bit more belief about us. But on belief, Arsenal still going on four fronts and looking very good after their tie against Chelsea.

3:49They are... Do you remember we had our match of the day launch thing in that venue? Do you remember back in...

3:56Gabby:Yeah, with lots of young people and you, me and Kelly. Yes. And Alan. And we were asked, kind of on the spot, which team we were kind of excited about this season. And you all went for kind of clever, esoteric answers. And I said Arsenal because, not because I'm an Arsenal fan, but because I just felt like this would potentially be a season that Arsenal could finally get over the line somewhere in a big way. And I have to say last night, I thought that they play some tremendous football. I know that so much attention on Arsenal is about their set pieces. And, you know, and it's been almost seen as a stick to beat them with at times this season.

4:32but they are playing some really good football that could take them a long way in all competitions.

4:37Gabby:Look, they just don't have a weakness, do they? They don't have a weakness and people will go on about centre-forward and Jochores and so on and so forth but they started with Jochores last night. He scored and set one up. They have Havertz on the bench. They have Gabriel Jesus on the bench and they have Marino on the bench who came on as a midfielder last night but they have used as a striker. They have four different types of striker there that they can use as and when. Eze didn't get on last night. In fact, Eza's barely played for about a month since making a mistake at Aston Villa. And the week before that, he scored a hat-trick, yeah.

5:09Gabby:Yeah, Miles Lewis-Skelly appears at the moment to be third or fourth choice left-back. That's how strong... Having been first choice a year ago. Yeah, exactly. That's how strong this squad is. And this will be the first trophy if they get to the final, which you would assume they will at the moment. But this is their first chance to get a hands-on trophy this season. Arteta's only won the FA Cup in his reign so far. And the interesting stat, I think, when it comes to the League Cup, is that seven of the last 12 winners have gone on to win another trophy in the same season that they've won the League Cup.

5:48Gabby:And it's said a lot. It is a platform. It is a platform. Just before we move on to our main topic today, one of the other sports you present, Rugby League, has had a bit of news. Sean Wayne stepping down as head coach nine months before the Rugby League World Cup. What's the story there? I feel like Sean Wayne's time in charge of England has felt like missed opportunities, really. And every time you've thought, go on, go and deliver something for us. It's never quite come off. and I go back to the last World Cup, a home World Cup, the semi-final was against Samoa. Without taking anything away from Samoa, England would have been favourites for that and then it would have been a final against Australia at Old Trafford.

6:38Gabby:But that semi-final ended up being played at the Emirates, which has not got any rugby league history at all, is also in London. I don't think it did England any favours. Why you would not play that at Ellum Road or in a rugby league heartland, you know, Wigan or St. Hale, absolutely baffled me did that. And they lost. And that felt like a missed opportunity. And then the Ashes series just gone against Australia, again, felt like a missed opportunity. Australia were head and shoulders the better team, but England were so disappointing in those three games. Again, the first one at Wembley, two thirds full.

7:16Gabby:I don't think that helped them. You know, the second one was at Everton's new ground. It was full. It had a real atmosphere to it. the third one was at Headingley and that had atmosphere to it as well some decisions that have been taken by rugby league execs haven't helped but it just feels like for a man who had so much success at Wigan really studies leadership and management he was involved in performance at the Scottish Rugby Union with Sean as well you know gives a lot of leadership talks I like him he's a really impressive guy but it just does feel like a missed opportunity for him in England What direction they'll go in now, I'm not 100 % sure.

7:55OK, as always, please send your questions in the sportsagentsatglobal.com on email, or you can message us on social media, or you can go via the link in the episode description.

8:03Gabby:Catch up with all of our past episodes on YouTube, Global Player, or wherever you get your pods. Leave a comment or review when you listen, and hit subscribe and follow so you don't miss any of our episodes. Next up, has Live Golf saved its house of cards from falling down, and for how long? After the break, we're going to be joined by host of The Chipping Forecast, Andrew Cotter. The Sports Agents.

8:26The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

8:33Gabby:No, we'll get into the minutiae shortly, Andrew, of who's playing where and what's going on. But as we go into this year, with tournaments now starting again, is golf in a good place or a bad place? It's in an interesting place. It's in a place that, I don't know, for the last five years, men's professional golf has been endlessly fascinating, slightly dispiriting as well, because it's just become such a money grab. Now, golf has always been the sport of big business and absolutely capitalist sport. But it's become so much about the money that you need something like McElroy's win at the Masters or the Ryder Cup to really cut through and remind you that, you know, or Scheffler's dominance, that the sport is still there.

9:15It's just everyone is so obsessed with the money, where it comes from, how much money there is, this money against that money. But I suppose, listen, we see it in a lot of sports at the moment. Middle Eastern money, Saudi Arabian money in particular, is inflating the market, over-inflating it. And it becomes a rather greedy, distasteful thing. But the sport at the heart of it all is still what we love. The first thing I thought, Andrew, when I heard Brooks Koepka was going back, if you like, was why? Why would players, I mean, you know, obviously the money is much greater on the Liv tour. Why are players wanting to come back and play?

9:50Is it the coverage? Is it the crowds? Is it the feeling that they're not with their mates? What do you put it down to? Each player, if they decide to do this, and there aren't many who can do this through the returning members programme, would have their own reasons for doing it. Brooks Koepka, he had buyer's remorse very early on in going to Liv. He got offered a huge pile of money and for him it was anywhere between 100 million and 150 million dollars. It was certainly north of 100 million because he told, he gave that number to the Jake Paul podcast, as one does nowadays. And so there was an awful lot of money.

10:26But as soon as he got there, I think he realised that this isn't where I want to be. This isn't where I want to be playing. This isn't the kind of golf I want to be playing. But why? What is it about that golf? You know, I don't watch Liv golf all the time. What's happening there? Well, very few people do. It's not. I mean, he only really enjoyed playing in the majors anyway. I mean, coming back to the PGA Tour now, he's going to play in more regular PGA Tour events. But he was all about the majors. And even though he was still able to play in the majors because of his qualifications from being a multiple major champion, I think he missed more serious competition.

11:03Now, Liv is serious and good quality competition, but it's a very different product. And he is not an extrovert. He doesn't really buy into that. Few golfers are, but Brooks Koepka in particular is a serious, serious, takes himself quite seriously as the alpha male of the golfing world. And Liv didn't sit comfortably with him, but he took the money. So now he wants to come back for personal reasons, above all, I think. So he's going to have to make payments back and lose a bit of money. But he's certainly still, when all is said and done and the figures are totted up, he's going to be many many many millions in credit the fine or whatever it is that they have to pay

11:40Gabby:coming back is five million dollars i think isn't it yeah i mean the majority of golfers are not known for their sort of solidarity and teamwork are they it's it's every every on the men's tour every man for him himself will he be welcome back you know oh yeah you went off you got 150 million dollars we all stayed loyal we haven't got that but you paid a five million dollar fine that's it fine brooks come back will there be animosity towards him i i think there will be a little bit of lingering uh friction there's certainly resentment and jealousy for those who went to live because they got so much money and the fact that he's able to come back however he's doing so with the blessing of the big boss himself which is not brian rollout the ceo he's doing with the blessing of tiger woods who's on the player council and the player council decided there's the board, sorry, which has a number of players on it, the board of the PGA Tour, have given it the go ahead.

12:37Basically, what happened was Brooks Koepka, 23rd December, made the approach, said, I want to come back to the PGA Tour. Over Christmas and New Year, it got a little bit delayed, obviously. But then it actually happened quite quickly that Brian Rulapp, who comes from outside golf, he's the new CEO of the PGA Tour. He comes from NFL. And so he just looks at it and says, right, let's make this happen. and let's offer this olive branch to Brooks Koepka. And he's come back. Now, Brooks Koepka has been absolutely cold towards all other golfers in the past, but he says that he's going to have to rebuild a few bridges.

13:09But I think it is being accepted by most players in the PGA Tour, perhaps not the rank and file so much, but I think most players are accepting it because it's been given the blessing of the new CEO, but also Tiger Woods and plenty of others as well. And to have a big name back, and he's still quite a big name, Brooks Koepka, is only good for the overall product. And then the question is, I guess, now the door is open and there are ways of coming back. We heard Bryson DeChambeau saying that he was committed to his contract, which I think goes through to 2026. Although James Corrigan in The Telegraph described it as somebody in a dentist's waiting room, the way he delivered that with a lack of excitement about hanging around.

13:51He's the key figure because the only other three who could come back under this very small window now, it's just over two weeks remaining of this returning members programme. It was created for the biggest names on Liv. It was created for Brooks Koepka. Well, it was created for him initially, but it was also, it only applies to, because of the criteria, you've got to have won a major between 22 and 25, or the Players' Championship. That's Bryson DeChambeau, John Ram and Cam Smith. PGA Tour doesn't care about Cam Smith. Cam Smith doesn't want to come back anyway. he's got a few years left in his contract or he wants to stay and live he was given$150 million he's got no interest in coming back to the PGA Tour John Ram is not going to come back because he's got three years remaining on his contract that was for$300 million or thereabouts might have been much more than that What did he tell

14:40Give us a clue What did he tell Jake Paul I was going to say what did he tell Logan Roy but he's a fictional character in Succession nothing to do with this what did he tell Jake Paul? Anyway, sorry So no, you can do that line again because it's a good line so hang on a second Chappers will stop laughing in a minute and I'll do a genuine laugh at your line What did he tell Jake Paul? What did he tell Jake Paul? You We spoke to a Spanish outlet and said he's got no interest in coming back either Bryson DeChambeau is the interesting one because in the strange world that we live in he has become probably the biggest star in golf even allowing for rory mcelroy scotty sheffler does his thing quietly and effectively rory mcelroy and bryson de chambeau would be the two biggest names in golf bryson de chambeau because he's appealing to a whole new market with his youtube numbers and because he's he's just a bit uh well anyway let's not get into a bryson de chambeau episode right here but he is the big draw but i don't think he's going to come back if the pga tour were to get him to come back, that's a much bigger deal than Brooks Koepka.

15:49Koepka, fine player, but I think his best days are behind him and he's not quite the name that he was. Bryson DeChambeau very much still is because he's also tapping into a new market. But it is leverage for him now because he's got this renegotiation of his next contract with Liv and again reports that he's asking for upwards of 500 million. It's just, I don't know. But they can pay that, right? They can pay that if they want to keep this dream alive. But what is their dream? I don't know what their dream is. I don't really know what the purpose of Liv is. They've spent over£5 billion so far for a product that's not really being seen.

16:30It's being seen by a few people in TNT Sports, just taking it over, I think from ITV in the UK. It's appealing to, they say, to a different market, but it's not appealing to big numbers. And people who go there disappear off into the shadows, except for outliers like Bryson DeChambeau, because he's doing his YouTube thing.

16:52Gabby:Isn't the argument as well a little bit that you've got to be a proper golf fan to be really into your PGA Tour, haven't you? Do you know what I think, Andrew? It's hugely important for American broadcasters, CBS, I think, in particular, NBC as well. The PGA Tour is hugely important to them. But maybe the wider golf in public, certainly the wider sporting public really couldn't care who won the phoenix waste management open could they and and as long as you have the big names for the majors and the rider cup that's what people buy into yeah it's true but i would go further and say that golf despite the fact that it's a hugely popular sport to be played and absolutely the majors are watched in the rider cup that it's not it's not that big a sport in terms of consumer numbers i think in america it is bigger but it is really i talked about it being the sport of big business someone described it once as a niche sport of big business big business gets on board with it so perhaps the money involved in golf outweighs its attraction as a as a as a product which is why i was fascinated by the you know the ssg strategic sports group getting involved and bankrolling the pga tour to sort of enable it to take on the untold wealth of piff and and live you know this is this is um fenway sports group and um john henry et al you know they they don't make investments in things that they don't think are going to be successful so the pga tour has a lot of money carries a lot of weight and i think the flow is just going back from you know live was winning if you can call it that for a while in its attraction but but a pga tour seems to be have reasserted itself having not seen off the threat at all but I think the threat was necessary for the PGA Tour to give a bit of shock treatment and said okay we have to A.

18:42find a bit more investment but also readjust and reduce the number of places we have on tour and make things a little bit more dynamic and attractive to the consumers

18:50Gabby:Well what I'd be fascinated by is if Bryson did go back to the PGA Tour what kind of flexibility they would give him to bring and I know we can laugh about his YouTube channel but I quite enjoy watching Bryson's YouTube channel. And, you know, he has a round of golf with Steph Curry or whatever. And it's a really good watch. I mean, it's nothing new. I mean, he's following in the footsteps of Tarby and Brucie. But, I mean, you know, it's... For younger viewers, there'll be something in the show notes there just to tell you about who they were. But it would be interesting if he did come back to see what the PGA Tour would allow him to do in terms of bringing it to a different audience?

19:34Well, the whole broadcasting landscape, obviously not just in golf, but everywhere is changing and the move towards YouTube is significant and it's significant in golf. The number of golfing YouTubers, honestly, it's just... And Bryson, although a late adopter, has leapt pretty much to the top of things because of who he is and because of, as you mentioned, the guests who he can command. I mean, playing with El Presidente. actually that makes it sound like he's a South American president which probably isn't yet Behaving not dissimilarly Anyway The fact that he can get that level of guest on as far as I'm aware at the moment and again so many things I've just reported and not confirmed is that Piff Liv has a share in his YouTube channel so they have a certain level of ownership of it so that thing becomes significant Yeah.

20:29And is that not in a way, is this what they wanted at the very beginning to have a seat at the table of the establishment, perhaps? And this is a way that they've kind of manoeuvred themselves into a position. This might be the beginning of, you know, something like the end of Liv's significance. If they can then get themselves at the traditional kind of tables and have a seat there, is that not a decent end game for them? I honestly don't know what they want. I mean, Yasser Al-Ramayan, who is in charge of Live Golf and distributing the money of PIF, loves golf. And it might be no more than that.

21:09Then he is a big fan of golf and wanted to shake things up. But ultimately, it is, as we go back to the beginning of all these discussions about Saudi Arabian money and sport, it is sports washing. It's normalizing things. And it, unfortunately, it works because people don't talk, people accept it. People don't talk about where the money comes from, because as long as there is money, people will find a reason to justify their decisions and where that money comes from. And that is the normalisation, that is sports washing. So I think that ultimately still has been the goal of Live Golf. But to talk about it as we're shaking up golf, we're changing golf, we're going to develop and grow the game, I don't think that's in any way true.

21:59They're back to 72 whole tournaments now instead of 54. The only difference really is a shotgun start and a bit of music. So I think that the real change in golf probably does come not from Liv, but it comes from YouTube. It comes from people doing what they're doing there. But as you said, Chapters, it's nothing new. It's just a new platform for it. And sometimes you have to just dig a little bit deeper to get to the sport that you love, whether it's playing or whether it's watching and ignore the cash. It's interesting, Andrew. one of the topics we might discuss on the episode a little bit later today is looking at what's been going on in Australia and this whole kind of, you know, the razzmatazz around bringing non-tennis players into play with tennis players, which actually has also been done before when you think about kind of pro-ams and things like that, but in a slightly different way.

22:44And then reading this morning on the tennis front that we always felt like, you know, Wimbledon's sacrosanct. It'll never have any of these quirky kind of, you know, newfangled ideas to try and attract younger audiences. It's like Augusta, it's traditional and everybody loves that. But reading that Wimbledon has asked the BBC to have a little look at how it presents tennis and to give that some kind of shake up. And I know I can see your eyebrows raising because you are one of the stalwarts of the Wimbledon coverage in terms of your commentary. So while I've got you, do you think Wimbledon needs something?