Are Tuchel's England the 'Entertainers' now?

0:02This is a global production.

0:30Mbappe arriving, Haaland arriving at the World Cup, Messi. Come on, you've got to do this, Harry. You've got to join this quartet here. The big global stars have arrived.

0:48Welcome to the Sports Agents. Hi, Gabby. Hello, Mark. Are you buzzing? Are you on the hype train? Are you feeling like it's coming home? Are you already kind of, you know, working out kind of where you're going to watch the World Cup final? Because you're working on it, aren't you? No, I'm not. No, I'm not. Are you not doing radio? No, I'll be at the golf. Oh, God. I'm doing the open golf that weekend. And then I will drive back from the open golf listening to Kelly and the build up on the radio. And then I'll catch some of you on the telly. So you're going to be at the golf? Yeah. Oh my gosh.

1:28I love the goal. I know you do. And I know you'd never not do the goal, but that could be an extraordinary day, couldn't it? So what time will the goal finish? She's now worrying about this schedule. You've gone straight into diary mode. I don't know, actually, because strangely enough, I haven't looked at the protocol for the Open yet. I've got to get through. I think they might change their tee-off times if England are in a World Cup final. Yeah, they could bring everything forward a bit. I mean, normally it finishes between six and seven. I would imagine if England or Scotland are in the final, they may want it to finish between five and six, but I haven't.

2:06Yeah, right there, I'm just demonstrating how ahead of ourselves we get. But I think we have a right to be excited about this England team because they last night played such a brilliant brand of football that we don't always see in tournaments. And you were there with our three amigos, Joe Hart, Wayne Rooney and Micah Richards afterwards. And, you know, Wayne was part of what possibly was one of the lowest points in terms of a performance, the Algeria game in 2010 in Cape Town. And the difference in the way the players played last night was incredible. He was also part. We were talking last night.

2:44He was also part. his very first tournament was the Euros of 2004 when the England beat Croatia, and I think it may have been 4-2, actually. And France were in that group. And there was a real spring in their step in that tournament, and they had a great group stage. Yes, yeah. So I suppose that shows we have had some good moments before, but in pockets, but also how quickly things can change in a tournament. But they were very positive last night, all three of them. I mean, it's unusual for Micah not to be positive. But Joe and Micah and Wayne, very positive, and particularly positive about Tuchel's side of things and messages and substitutions and not retreating into a shell, but still wanting to go for it.

3:34Let's bring Henry Winter in, football journalist, who's in a departure lounge in Dallas, where England beat Croatia. It was fun, wasn't it? Brilliant word for it, fun. I've been covering England for, I think I've done 400 of their 1 ,100 games and fun doesn't often feature high up on the agenda. I was actually thinking World Cup-wise, I'd probably have to go back to Denmark 2002 when Owen was flying and England won 3-0 against a good Danish side. To think of when I walked out of a stadium and I talked to England fans I'm at the airport here at Dallas, the gloriously named Love Field, and bumping into some England fans, and they're just smiling.

4:17You know, normally it's the retreat from Moscow, or, well, it was the last time we played Croatia in 2018. And, yeah, it was fun. Fun is absolutely the right word for it, Mark. Yeah, I kind of went back to 96 even further and thinking that that performance against the Netherlands, I think they were still Holland then, you know, that was a fun night, wasn't it? But, yeah, that's a great way to describe it, Chapman, because what it felt like was that the players were able to express themselves and do what they do week in, week out in the Premier League. And we just, so many times, we've just seen this kind of retreat, haven't we, from Premier League stars into kind of awkward England players who don't seem to, it's not that they can't play football anymore, they just don't seem to be able to do it in the same way.

5:00I mean, you look at their Champions League winners in there, their Premier League winners in there, their players. I put it to Tuchel last night. Was it actually coincidence that all your three goal scorers played in leagues where there's a winter break? And he said, well, it's a little bit more nuanced than that. But, you know, you look at Harry Kane. He's had an amazing season. But also he had three weeks off over Christmas to refresh. Harry obviously is exceptional. He looks after himself so well. But look, we talk about the fun, but there was a lot of appliance of science from Tuchel with the changes that he made at halftime.

5:30But also the emotional side. I mean, you've seen him. You've interviewed him. He's quite an emotional guy. I mean physically you know the way he sort of bounces around Tigger style and also just the way he is a player whisperer the way he gets into players the way he's getting the best out of Bellingham and players coming on like Rashford immediately having that impact as well I mean you talk about Tuchel there one of the other and him being a player whisperer before you came on myself and Gabby were just talking about him when I've done stuff with him nothing is off limits you don't get told and it doesn't matter whether it's an interview or in a corporate environment, you don't get told, well, don't ask him about this, or he say, well, I don't really want to talk about that.

6:16He's incredibly open with both his own feelings and information. And I wonder whether that openness and honesty will turn out to be his greatest success with the players. I think the players love that. And remember, this is a slightly different generation to previous generations. Certainly when I started covering England, they're far more sort of open, demonstrative, put everything out on Instagram content generation. So I think they absolutely respond to having a slightly more sort of tactile in a way, quite tactile individual in Tuchel. And I think that's right. But he has come in and he has had a look at the issues with England.

6:58And you've got to give Southgate huge credit for taking the fear out of the shirt and rebuilding the bond between the fans and the players. Absolutely, Tuchel would not be able to do what he is at the moment without Southgate having sort of developed all those elements. But absolutely, he has come in and he's worked, I mean, tactically, emotionally, the way he's dealt. Bringing Jordan Henderson in, which I was a critic of, you just watch training and you see Jordan Henderson's impact. And you can see why it's an absolute masterstroke by Tuchel. to bring Henderson in because you hear the coaches before the drills, the rondos, whatever they're doing.

7:33And, you know, it's only the 15 minutes that we see. Henderson is right in there. It's hard, hard, hard. He is driving standards. Jordan Henderson's not going to play. He might come out and see out one or two games if England need to sort of close down a game. But it's what he does. And just all those decisions that Tuchel makes, whether it's emotional, whether it's tactical, whether it's selectional, they all seem to be paying off because he is an elite A-list manager. We were just chatting before, Henry, about, in fact, echoing what you'd said there about Southgate. And I'd heard a few comments this morning, people kind of almost trying to denigrate Southgate.

8:06Oh, this is what he didn't do. And yet he didn't make as positive substitutions in big matches. And that was something that used to grate the fans. But he would not be where he is, as you say, Tuchel right now with this group of players as they are culturally without the work that Gareth did. But another thing about Tuchel's, the criticism that's been leveled to kind of, you know, from certain quarters over the last couple of years is having a foreign manager and no team's ever won with a foreign manager. And I can't help but draw parallels with the communication that the women, the Lionesses have talked about with Serena Vigman, that directness that they said immediately that they enjoyed being told exactly what she thinks, knowing exactly what their jobs are.

8:43and when they first won the Euros in 22 that was one of the things they praised most about about her leadership and her management and and obviously there've been certain incidents in in the intervening years where her directness has upset certain players Mary Earps but that's she's stuck to the way she communicates and I think you can't underestimate can you the kind of difference in pressure not perhaps being born in this country and how that you know how an English manager might communicate differently because of the weight of history I mean it's such an interesting debate I mean, personally, I think the England manager should be English.

9:17I think it should be our best against your best. And if you build a£120 million National Football Centre, which is effectively a coaching hub at St George's Park, that is to create the coaches of the future who then go on to the England job. But at the moment, who is there? I mean, it was really Lee Carsley, OK, homegrown, Republic of Ireland International, and Eddie Howe, maybe Frank Lampard's longer term. So I think they were right to bring Tuchel in and use him while he was here, while he is here, to sort of help, you know, nurture the next generation. But I think it's a really sentient point.

9:55I mean, I was at school in Germany as a kid in Munich, and you did get to see that. They were literally practicing penalties in the kindergarten. It was almost that sophisticated. It's a really important point that you make that he, but he is this mix of someone who is emotionally engaged. and he was really annoyed by the fact there were 50 photographers. He had a bit of rant about it with us afterwards and with you guys. He couldn't actually have that emotional connection with his players. And then he spoke very emotionally about all the people who'd helped him. It was almost like an Oscars winner speech.

10:26I was thinking, hold on, mate, you've won one game. And let's remember, it's indoors. And if you want to play this high-press, Premier League-style, up-and-atom game, it's going to be certainly different middle of the afternoon in 90-degree heat. But helped with drinks breaks. I mean, I know, you know, I don't want to get into it because I think a lot has been said. But what is clear is those three minutes will help you reset if you have got a high tempo game, won't they? Yeah, but I think Tuchel and the top coaches, their ability to get instructions on to players, I think they can do that. You know, it's not as if every change that needs to be made has to be made in the 22nd minute.

11:04It might be needed in the 18th minute and he'll get instructions on them. I was meaning more physically, actually, just having that three minutes to stop, actually, for the players. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting talking to them. A lot of them are not that impressed. They would rather have the momentum, particularly when they're on top. And the England fans, I don't know whether the sound mics got turned down, but they certainly made their disapproval of the drinks breaks known. And I mean, I tweeted about it last night and I got a message back from FIFA putting it into perspective. Look, the heat will be an issue for England.

11:36I mean, I think you both were in Manaus in 2014 when England played against Italy up the Amazon and England melted. But I think this is a slightly different generation in that they don't give the ball away cheaply, which is absolutely key. You know, they can get the ball from A to B. You've got Bellingham in there. Kane, I mean, Kane's role yesterday, everyone focused rightly on the goals and his nerves of steel with the second penalty. But Kane was just the tactical mastermind for this England win in terms of on the pitch, in the way that he dropped off almost in a number 10 position and allowed all that pace, whether it was Madureki, Rashford when he came on, Gordon less so, he wasn't so influential, but Bellingham and Rice as well to break on onto and pass the Croatian defenders.

12:20And, you know, there was a bit of naivety on Croatia's part, but all of this comes down to Tuchel's preparations. You know, the dead balls as well. I mean, to have O 'Reilly and Stones as the blockers making Kane free, and then Kane was one of the blockers, and O 'Reilly had a couple of headers. You know, it was interesting just looking at the bench, just coming back to the bench. Barry and Tuchel, when Kane scored his goal, it was a little bit like looking at the Arsenal bench. You know, they're prepared. It was the appliance of everything they'd been doing in training bearing fruit on the pitch.

12:49I do think some of the stuff that you both said there is also quite interesting because, and this is not to take away from the performance and enjoying it, but it is a World Cup where you're not properly going to be able to judge teams really, really until we're into the last 32 or the last 16. And then you see where they might be. I know we keep coming back to it as a possibility, but England away to Mexico in the last 16 in Mexico City is a completely different game to Croatia under a roof in Dallas. And I I don't think there's any, it's not being negative, is it, Henry, by saying that you can fully enjoy a performance, but there are caveats because you're playing, you will be playing different teams from around the world in very differing conditions depending where your path takes you.

13:45Yeah, I mean, it's a really good point. But I think the fact that England don't give away the ball so cheaply, the fact that they will be able to punish teams from set pieces. I mean, Declan Rice's deliveries, obviously we've seen it for Arsenal. I mean, England will probably have Saka doing the in-swingers from one side and Rice from the others. But I think that's going to be really key as well. I mean, it's one of the reasons why Tuchel goes for Haidt. But yeah, look, it is. But it's such a positive start. And I think maybe Tuchel has looked at the balance of the team and seen actually, I mean, I'm sure bring Mark Gay back in for Ghana, but looked at the issues in defence and thought, I mean, not quite Kevin Keegan, the great Newcastle entertainer style, but actually we might have to outscore the opposition.

14:30And you look at England's front six, I mean, Spain, when they click, probably got a better front six. France, definitely. Portugal, when they finally take Ronaldo out, will probably have a good front six. Won't be this World Cup, will it? Yeah, I know. Well, that's their problem and that will help England. But you look at Anderson, nothing phases him. Look at that pass to Bellingham. Declan Rice is just an absolute monster, how he plays. Is Declan Rice just on that? Because you were there last night. You could see the whites of their eyes. Should we be concerned at all, do you think, about Declan?

15:04I mean, I voted for him as Football of the Year because I just thought he was outstanding for Arsenal and he won a trophy. I mean, your point is about the amount of games that he's been playing. But I bumped into Declan Rice at an awards dinner and I saw him a couple of months ago. So I don't know whether you've interviewed him recently, but he looks so lean. I mean, you know when athletes just get to that absolute pitch performance going into Olympics, they look almost ill. They're so drawn. He is just rake thin like a greyhound. So he's absolutely up for this. He knows that this is his huge year and he's got the ability.

15:39Do you think they're managing him because of the slight kind of aggravation on his back? I mean, he can rest as many players as he wants against Panama, one would think. Can you foresee that happening? Well, first, he's got six days now before the next game against Ghana, so they got a bit of a break. And secondly, Declan walked through the mix zone last night and he said he's OK, he's OK. And you know what Declan's like. He's like that Monty Python knight. I mean, you can chop all his limbs off and he'll still be going up for corners. So I wouldn't worry about Declan Rice.

16:11Thumbtack presents Uncertainty Strikes. I was surrounded. The aisle and the options were closing in. There were paint rollers, satin and matte finish, angle brushes and natural bristles. There were too many choices. What if I never got my living room painted? What if I couldn't figure out what type of paint to use? What if I just used Thumbtack? I can hire a top-rated pro that knows everything about interior paint, easily compare prices and read reviews. Thumbtack knows homes. Download the app today.

16:43Looking at it just from a wider perspective, Has this World Cup surprised you so far? It surprised me, actually, by how entertaining the majority of the games have been. Well, two things. First, the fact that managers, and we shouldn't really expect this, but it's the impact that they're having. Tuchel at halftime, Deschamps at halftime have been absolutely huge. But yeah, the freshness, actually, of the players. and obviously quite a few have been left behind. I mean, you look at England's strength in depth, the fact that Palmer and Foden aren't here, but you look at Rashford, Rashford's dying to start and he may well do.

17:24And Gordon's been flying this season. So I think generally the freshness of the players, they might see a dip because obviously there's an extra round to play. It's a credit to the sports scientists, but also I think it's a credit to the players. I mean, I think about a third of the England players came out in advance of the training ground gates in Florida being opened. And they were there with their families, partly to sort of deal with jet lag, partly to acclimatise before the acclimatising. So it's sort of a pre-prep camp, if that makes sense. So I think the application of it. Also, it's the World Cup.

17:57You know, you've covered World Cup. It's huge here. You just sense just the scale of the occasion. And you look at the stadiums as well. You know, I mean, these are magnificent. That stadium last night was off the scale. Oh, the stadiums are looking incredible. Incredible. What was also, I think, great about it, you're always going to kind of, you know, bring the neutrals, if you like, along with you in a tournament, aren't you? It's like any big sporting event. It takes time for people to kind of come to the party. That 24 hours where we had Mbappe arriving at the World Cup, Haaland arriving at the World Cup, Messi.

18:31And then, you know, I was thinking like overnight, come on, you've got to do this, Harry. you've got to join this quartet here because this feels like, you know, you've got to be in this group. And he did. That's where, for me, it's kind of lit up now because you've got the big players. And I don't mean big players in terms of the big stars, the big global stars have arrived. Those ones you mentioned, and I would throw in Michael Alisse as well, who I think could well be the player of the tournament. We've seen how good he's been during the season for Bayern. I thought his movement, he was out wide and then played more of a sort of central playmaker.

19:02and his connection with Mbappe is going to punish a lot of teams. So, yeah, all those you mentioned. But we talked to Harry on the eve of the game in the Matchday Minus One press conference. Harry was absolutely up for this. He was looking around. He saw the world's media pointing their cameras and their microphones at him, and he was absolutely ready for this. This is what he's been preparing for and dreaming of since a young boy growing up in Leightonston, going out on loan to Oriental Leicester and places like that, working his way up. This is Harry's stage. This is Harry's moment. He's 31-32.

19:35This is his out, and he knows that. Also, the other thing with this tournament so far is two of the three hosts are off to a great start. And even Canada, which was a game you did, Gabby, wasn't it? I mean, they drew their own game. So all three host nations are off to a good start. And as we all know from doing these things, it does make a difference, particularly, I would suggest, the Americans. Yeah, I mean, it's such a good point. I mean, South Africa in 2010 when Bufana Bufana went out slightly controversially, you know, elements like that, you know, Korea, Japan when Japan went out, you know, and it was brilliant being over in Korea as well.

20:10And the way they went through, got to the semifinal and that whole country was partying. Absolutely. You want the host. And you know what the Americans are like? They want winners and they want their U.S. men's national team to do well. And they played and that that game was definitely the game of the tournament so far when it when it happened. And Chappers was across that one. I've got the privilege of doing USA-Australia tomorrow. And Australia obviously put in a great performance as well. And so another big match, you know, for the USA team, I think, and that razzmatazz that they're attracting as well.

20:41I think it's not vital for the success of the tournament, but it certainly gives a different energy, doesn't it, when you get the nation that's not a football nation traditionally behind you. Yeah, it's a really interesting point about the razzmatazz. I mean, it's certainly in pockets. You go to the big cities, obviously Boston with the Tartan Army, New York, L.A., places like that. But until the Argentinians turned up in Kansas City, I mean, you detected that there was some soccer going on. But apart from the occasional ad with Beckham and a billboard of Beckham, you know, actually it hasn't really gripped, partly because the NBA Finals have been going on, the Stanley Cup.

21:13You know, even the World Series for college softball championship has been getting a lot more traction in the media. Soccer, you know, I was here in 94, and obviously it's moved on a lot since then. MLS has been really important, Beckham and Messi over here. But it's not quite seized the whole of America yet. And that is why your point about the national team with Pochettino doing so well, that was such a key result for them the other night. Henry, we will leave it there if people can't tell. I will go check in my bag somewhere. Yeah, you have a flight to catch, I believe. Where are you going now, Henry?

21:45You're going back to Kansas City? Well, England have moved their training forward. So, I mean, it's not going to be much of a training session, but heading back to Kansas City to see the team. And there'll be a buzz around it. I remember those days doing that job. You'd kind of rush back somewhere. Then they'd change training time. Then you'd be sitting waiting to see who you're going to go interview. And, well, yeah, you're all definitely fit for this one, Henry. As you say, how many hundreds of years have you been doing this job? Oh, yeah, quite a lot. This is my 10th World Cup. And, you know, it's the dream that keeps you going.

22:19Obviously, we're so privileged to do this job, but there's always that glimmer of hope. We never stop dreaming. I also love the fact when they move their training, oh, it's open training for the first 10 minutes. Everybody's like, oh, great, it's open training. And then you watch 30 men stretch for 10 minutes and then you go away again. Yeah. They have to be there. Henry, I won't ask you whether you've, as you've just said, been there at 10 World Cups, if this is the time. Does it feel different? Because that would be unfair, wouldn't it, to ask you that? Once again, you're still there. Ah, thank you.

22:51So far, Miguel. Brilliant, brilliant timing. So that's it for today. We're all on the hype train. Thank you so much for listening. Get in touch this weekend with your thoughts about anything we've discussed today. You can drop us a comment below, email us thesportsagentsatglobal.com or message us on social media at the Sports Agents. Remember, all of our past episodes are on YouTube, Global Player, or wherever you get your pods. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, leave us a review, and we'll see you on Monday.

23:21This has been a global production.