Argentina's SHAME, Trump's Circus... A fitting end to toxic World Cup?

0:00Nedum Onuoha:I'm all for a bit of shithousery from time to time, but I mean, that was actual thuggery. Incredibly ungracious in defeat. Messi was totally out of the game. Had there been a smash and grab and had Argentina found a way through, that it would have been an injustice to the World Cup, actually. It was 117 minutes before they had a shot. But for the Spanish, they're just too robust, too trusting in their system, too trusting in each other and understand what the plan was and never really rose to it, even the stuff after the game. As for Bieber As for Bieber Holy crap What was that? I mean my god It was like a funeral song This is a global production

0:45Nedum Onuoha:Hello welcome to the Sports Agents Hi Nadam, hi Gabby Both of you in America still? For now, for now Time's nearly upon us I'm running for a plane in about 40 minutes or so. So, yeah, it doesn't feel... I feel a bit surreal this morning, actually, that it's all over. It feels like it's been going on forever, this World Cup. My God, doesn't it? Spader World Champions, then, let's get into it. Obviously, you were there last night, Gabby. Great job. I mean, your position, and it just looked amazing, did that bit. It was as a spectacle and as an event, it was quite incredible, the scale of it. And I know FIFA wants everything to get bigger and bigger and shinier and shinier and more and more of a show, it felt like.

1:34And even when the president was flying in and these Chinooks were kind of circling the stadium ahead of time and everything felt kind of slightly surreal, like you were in a movie. And then Tom Cruise pops up and delivers a strange monologue to remind us that we were probably in somebody's movie. It was an incredible event, if obviously slightly spoiled by not the most classic of finals, let's say. But, you know, you can't have everything.

2:01Nedum Onuoha:I would argue if they want it to be big and shiny and the best, they need to get better at timings and organisation, don't they really? Six-minute delay to kick off, yeah, not great. I was driving back from the open, so I was listening to the build-up on the radio and I got in with about 10, 15 minutes of the first half gone, but I actually thought I was going to throw up in my car at the Tom Cruise monologue on the way home. Jeez, God. Terrific, absolutely terrific. Tell us how you really feel, Chappas, please. Please tell us how you really feel. What did we make of the game then? Because after the semi-finals, I think we all agreed that the two best teams went to the final, but it was a difficult watch at times, Gabby, wasn't it?

2:43It was. And I guess, Nadam, that's what we've seen Argentina do to many teams and then find a way through. The difference yesterday was that they couldn't do that and it didn't make for a very attractive game and I don't think it would have won over too many neutrals. I suppose the thing that surprised all of us where we were watching it from was how long it took Spain actually to get through Yeah It seemed inevitable Yeah, to be honest I think for the last few rounds Spain have felt inevitable but some of the goals have come quite late You know, obviously not talking necessarily about that game against France but against, I think it was it was a late sort of win against Belgium because it's the Miquel Marino back-to-back games, wasn't it?

3:26But they were the better side in both of those and they were very much the better side yesterday that they were chipping away, chipping away, chipping away. And then, I don't know if you were the same as me, but then you start running through all those scenarios in your mind where a team has done a smash and grab. But then I'm like, no, but Argentina can't do this because nobody does a smash and grab in a World Cup final, surely. Surely football hasn't become so basic that that is a thing. But they were far and away the better side. And I think Argentina themselves, especially as the game was developing, for me, they looked very, very tired.

3:54And I think some of that tiredness comes from following a ball around. Because when you don't have possession, all you're doing is cardio. add into that the fact that they've had so many extra time games and so on. It's been the end of the six weeks. They've had so much emotion attached to all their games, which isn't always a positive. And you could see that they were essentially a broken side. And so for some, some agitators, disruptors that come on at halftime, they try and add a little bit more needle to the game, talking about Paredes there. But for the Spanish, they're just too robust, too trusting in their system, too trusting in each other and understand what the plan was and never really rose to it, even the stuff after the game.

4:28they never asked for that either. Don't know about you Nadam and Chavez but I did feel that had there been a smash and grab and had Argentina found a way through before the red card actually I think it was at that point that you were thinking oh gosh because actually the red card did change the game that it would have been an injustice to this you know to the World Cup actually because the physicality is one thing the cynicism you know you kind of you know that's what you're going to get Messi was totally out of the game I'm not sure if you saw any of his touch maps didn't even have a touch in the box, was completely, was walking as he does, you know, six, I mean, what the stat that, you know, we used pre-match that 669 players in the World Cup and he's 669th in terms of movement in this World Cup.

5:10And he is messy. So he, when he moves, he's very efficient, but there was nothing really yesterday, was there? If you're looking at highlights reel of Argentina in terms of actual football, there was nothing to put on there. It was 117 minutes before they had a shot. it would have been a great injustice.

5:27Nedum Onuoha:I mean those stats that you put up at half-time and full-time yes they were damning weren't they and you know no shots, nothing on target XG of zero and yet I suppose because it is him you still have that smash and grab in the back of your mind because all it takes is one ball to him and one cross or one dribble or whatever it may be and all of a sudden you could be out of the game but I do think that the difference which is what you said Nadeem there was Spain were in control and trusted that they were in control. And that's a difference to England. It's probably a difference maybe to Egypt a little bit as well, if you're going back to that game.

6:07Nedum Onuoha:They trusted that their methods would win out in the end, and they didn't adapt to Argentina. They would make Argentina adapt to them. And I do also think, you know, as much as the semifinal was air-conditioned in Atlanta, as was the previous game against Egypt, they did look shattered, didn't they? And we've talked about this. It's not just the playing games. You know, I think they were in Miami, weren't they, when they came back against Cape Verde in that game. Indoors for the Egypt game, indoors for the England game. But it's everything else that has gone into this tournament. It's not just 90 or 120 minutes.

6:53Nedum Onuoha:It is the traveling back and forth and everything that goes into that and trying to adapt to different climates in different places. So they just looked like they'd hit a game too far against the team that would hurt them more than any other by control. 100%, yeah. The worst team you could possibly come up against when your legs have gone is just Spain because they all just punish you for it. And obviously, as the game was developing, for Argentina thinking, oh, you know, they've still not scored. They've still not scored. We have a chance. We have a chance. We have the belief. But it was just getting tougher and tougher for them.

7:28And then Spain, to give them credit again, like the subs make the difference. You know, it's a Nico Williams header that drops down to Ferran Torres to score the goal. You know, putting and continuing the work that was there before from the likes of Yathabal and Baena and so on. So from Argentina's perspective, you're right. like if I'm when I think about it like as a former pro I think about how tired those players must be not just at the end of this World Cup but the end of a long season for the majority of them you know some of them playing potentially playing at the Club World Cup last year for example like Enzo Fernandes literally was playing on that pitch a year ago for Chelsea in that final so this is a long season long two seasons back to back you add in the emotion of like the biggest game in all of football you know not one of the biggest but the biggest game in all of it and the emotion it's taken to get there the physical outputs to get there and then they come up against a side that have the best defensive record and have it for a reason.

8:18One goal conceded in eight games. It's outrageous. I think they didn't cover themselves in glory post-match either, did they? You know, the antics going on on the final whistle were really unattractive for the world to see. And then when the trophy presentation actually eventually happened after the many, many awards and the delay in getting that ceremony going, turning their backs as they did. and it's not a good look for Argentina. Well, well, a take for you here. This is just my opinion. So if I'm going to get cancelled for this, so be it. The stuff where people are getting kicked and so on, I'm not for that.

8:56I think that's terrible. Molina triggering the series of events that leads to like Paredes getting his hand in someone's throat. And I think he maybe got sent off in the end, which is fair considering how the 90 minutes and beyond went for him as well. He basically came on to just, he was basically like, what is it in ice hockey the person that comes on just to like start a fight basically and then just gets taken off that's what it looked like from an Argentinian standpoint but the the medal thing and the Eternity Backs thing this is just my opinion yeah just my opinion when I've been to Wembley to watch some games when the opposition when the team that's won is climbing the steps to lift the trophy you will have other people be standing at the bottom some people wearing the medal some people aren't nobody wants a runners up medal yeah but some people criticize for not wearing it for not showing pride towards it because they see like Aitana bomb my teeth celebrating with it but she's the exception adding to that half the stadium is empty it's always the case that half the stadium is empty but I feel like to a certain extent the players at times can be held to like a bit of a different standard because I'd be very very emotional very very upset after losing the game and I don't know if it's the ultimate disrespect as such in terms of what they're doing there but I think the way they finish the game is more of an outrage to me than the other side of it in my opinion

10:06Nedum Onuoha:How weird that is because I go the opposite, which is... Well, look, I don't think what happened at the end of the game was by any means just okay. I'm all for a bit of shithousery from time to time, but, I mean, that was actual thuggery, actually, to be honest with you, and incredibly ungracious in defeat. So I'm not by any means condoning that. And as Joe Hart said to Gabby on the telly last night, it was disgusting. But I think in the midst of everything, in the midst of everything, if your opponents are about to lift the World Cup, I don't think you should turn your back on them when they do that.

10:52Nedum Onuoha:And you talk about the Wembley thing, and whether you take your medal off or not, but the majority of managers make their players stand there to see the opposition lift the Cup before they then go off. Now, some do that as a motivational thing. Right, when we are back next season, remember, use this to fire you up for next season. But that's the bit. It's actually not the fact that they walked off it. It's that they stood there with their backs to it, looking at their own fans. Can we contrast that moment to what I, and I might be just, you know, being a bit soft here, but what I thought was one of the moments for me of this World Cup was the France and England players of different denominations praying together at the end of that match.

11:39Now, I know it's a third, fourth game. I know it doesn't mean anything like as much, but I just thought that was a really beautiful moment. And if the World Cup has anything to do with what the chief executive of FIFA said it is and what it represents to the world, then that is what it's about. You know, that should be what it's about, that coming together. and I don't think it's weak or it is any sign of your lack of desire to win to actually respect and show sportsmanship. Learning how to lose is what we teach our kids, isn't it? That's what sport is all about. We're teaching them how to win, how to lose, how to behave in the midst of battle and at the end, you know, it's all fair.

12:20It's happened on the pitch and then you move on. I don't... Listen, I was trying to say that I think the stuff at the end of the game was worse. That's all I was saying. I think it's worse. I think some of the other stuff, if they turn around and watch the trophy lift, it's performative. They don't really want to do it. You know what I mean? That to me is like... Yeah, but sometimes you have to do something you don't want to do, don't you? Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. It's worse. Like when Paredes has got his hand in someone's throat, like I consider it worse than them not seeing Spain lift the World Cup because unfortunately for those Argentinians, they will see that for the rest of their lives.

12:49Yeah, it's all bad. Should we agree it's all bad? And it's just different degrees of bad within that. but um uh should we move on to our kind of awards section yeah yeah just one final thing on the

13:01Nedum Onuoha:just one final thing on the well well done wayne last night honestly well well done wayne with the half-time show analysis it was you know you must have thought gabby without going without going into our craft in inverted commas too much you must have thought that is just that is just gold I don't need to do anything else after that. He was sipping from the fountain of truth yesterday on many areas. I mean, he was literally, there was no holding him back, right down to his critique of Gianni Infantino's shoes, you know, that he shouldn't be wearing trainers to present the World Cup. But when he said crap, honestly, my WhatsApp groups, various WhatsApp groups on my phone were pinging in delight.

13:44It was like he'd spoken for the nation. And we love him all the more for it, don't we? He's turned into a fantastic analyst over the last year, but also says it how it is and has no kind of filter, which we love. So, yeah, it was a joy. Right, let's get on to... It was, though, wasn't it?

14:06Nedum Onuoha:Wasn't it? Absolutely. And I have sat through a lot of halftime shows with Super Bowls, and I've sat through really, really good halftime shows when you're in the stadium that maybe don't hit as much at home i've sat through some in the stadium where i've thought i'm not sure about that but it seems to have hit better with with the audience but that with with the exception of of the muppets was was well was exactly you're talking about the literal muppets or metaphorical muppets which ones are you talking about you are i just as in which are you talking about are you talking about the literal ones or like someone else the literal the literal ones i don't think kermit or miss piggy or animal did anything wrong and i put that on record okay good it was it was i mean it has delivered already um reams of memes and it will probably continue for the next few days i thought it it was extraordinarily disappointing in the face of you know what they they have got all that money all that time to curate something so spectacular and it was so underwhelming and you know i kept thinking well maybe it's working better on tv at home no no no and also and also i know i know this is a point and they may edit this out because we'll get onto the actual football bit this time but every single one of those artists that performed didn't do their best song and i'm i'm like what the blood i mean music is not madonna's greatest song right shakira's best song is the theme from 2010 do waka waka just get everybody i mean it's not rocket science is it and then i cannot believe as for bieber as for bieber holy crap what was that i mean my god it was like a funeral song it was so dirgy it was so dirgy and you've already mentioned tom cruise's speech and then obviously the interstitial from ted lasso which got lost in the stadium there's tiny little dots on the you know on the pitch it was just yeah it was actually i'm not a bts fan no nothing about them other than the fact they've done national service but at least they gave it a bit you know yeah at least that was one of at least we knew that at least we knew that one that might well have been their best song who knows um i thought robbie williams gave it a good go pre-match um with uh nicole scherzinger they gave it a good go but um and uh what's his name um post malone well i never thought i'd say this but fortunately I was on a media bus from the open to the car park, which was, I would imagine, a more enjoyable.

16:40Wayne and I agreed on the bus away from the stadium that the actual DJ playing songs pre-all the shows was doing a much better job of hyping up the crowd. And we don't need hyping up. It's a World Cup final, right?

16:51Nedum Onuoha:Just play the hits. Crikey. Okay, let's move on to the actual... That's a very grumpy segment. A very grumpy segment, but I'm here for it. You're speaking for a lot of people. Player of the tournament. Well, I was going to say very quickly, after my early issues with Michael Bublé, I was really reluctant to criticise that too much. I didn't want Coldplay on my back.

17:20Player of the tournament. So, Nadim, kick us off. So, obviously, Rodri won the award, and you can definitely make the case for it. But I think, for me, the context around, say, a 13-year-old Lionel Messi taking this Argentina team, helping them make it through to the World Cup final. I think that really, really matters for him to finish second top goal scorer, but for him to have broken the all-time record, to see the moments that he had, especially the ones in the semifinal against England, how he was willing that nation forward, and to see how a team is still built around somebody like that.

17:49I think it highlights, for me, how special a talent he is. There have been so many discussions around who is the greatest of all time, I'm as great as this generation and so on. And this is the tournament where Messi plays in the World Cup final. Ronaldo goes out two rounds ago and people are wondering, like, should he have played? So I think Messi is the one for me with his impact to this side who we saw yesterday has its limitations. Yeah, I think that's a very good case for the Golden Bull player of the tournament. And I'm actually going to go for player who got the young player of the tournament, Pao Cabasi, because I think at 19 years old, and as a defender, Nadim, I thought you might have come in for the Defenders Union, to be 19 and play in a team like Spain who have conceded one goal in this tournament, which is remarkable through eight matches, and be 19, just can't get over the maturity, and in the face as well of the kind of harassment that he was getting yesterday, and keeping his cool, and mentally, I think he's had an incredible tournament, so I'd sing him out.

18:54But I also, I feel there's a kind of a story with Jude Bellingham through this tournament. I've really enjoyed watching him. I'm watching him take control, be everything but captain and other than name, you know, and lead and come away from this, I feel, with a lot of currency. So it's those two that stand out for me.

19:19Nedum Onuoha:um paredes for me no only joking um uh do you know what i'd written bellingham as well gabby for exactly the same reasons i'd also put vizinha down the cape verde goalkeeper just because just because a tournament can sometimes somebody's life can change because of a tournament and his his has at the age of 40 for simply from his first performance against uh spain and the number of saves that he made and then how he progressed through the tournament um but i i would just to go slightly different than from you to i but it is the player of the tournament i i i thought rodri just because of that control and also because of the other thing i heard guillem balaguet say this on the radio he's come back from some some really bad injuries over the last couple of years and there must have been times when he wondered whether he was still going to be the force that he was and i think this has proved it and i think if anybody was looking for a midfielder to provide control rogerie is still in an era where players are going for 120 million and 130 million and a lot of them are midfielders he he is the ultimate midfielder in the modern game i think which is funny because he's obviously more defensive minded than attacking as such but since 2023 then, he's won the Premier League, the Champions League, the Ballon d 'Or, the Euros, the Euros player of the tournament, Champions League player of the tournament, in 23 World Cup, and World Cup player of the tournament.

20:51This is a generational run for defensive midfielders. This is so, so abnormal. I think in some ways, it does highlight how special he is and how special he has been.

21:01Nedum Onuoha:But whilst, look, he gets an awful lot of praise, I get that. He's not... Can you imagine if Messi had done that run? or the equivalent or Mbappe had done that run. They'd be on every billboard in the majority of countries. From my experience going around America, I don't know about you two, but Rodri's not on a single billboard. You would have thought Christian Pulisic was still playing at this tournament for the amount of adverts he's still involved in. But still, here we are. Vinicius Jr. He'd have thought David Beckham was still playing a number of others. Honestly, yeah. It's just one ball on door for the amount of adverts he's in.

21:37Most of the best player I've seen.

21:38Nedum Onuoha:yeah maybe i should have gone with him as player of the tournament yeah absolute killing yeah who's who's made the most one of this tournament uh david beckham yeah it's a close one between janny and fantino and david beckham but um yeah we think david might just be edging it um so let's let's move on to uh story of the tournament then i'm going to kick us off with crowds and ticket prices because I think the atmosphere has seemed through the television screen, because that's where most of my World Cup has been consumed apart from last night, to have been fantastic. And so actually on the one hand, the ticket price story is kind of slightly nullified by the fact that actually there weren't empty seats and corporate environments in these stadiums but the levels of kind of for me kind of disconnect between real fans and these ticket prices is a worrying trend and um and i and i think to have as as nathan put on our whatsapp the other day tickets going for 48 000 for the final a few days before it's just stinks really it stinks yeah and i'm i was gonna say mine and mine is similar really which is just a sense of FIFA taking this tournament further and further away from what it feels like football fans want.

23:06Nedum Onuoha:And I think football fans globally want. I think there is a common theme there and that is that's affordability, obviously. Access. I think the way that and I know Nadir will come on to this but the disciplinary issue There is the insistence, because this is important as well. Nobody that shows the World Cup is controlling those pictures. They're controlled by a host broadcaster. They're called host broadcasters who FIFA have given a contract to. And FIFA then, there is a, I don't know if I go as far as saying insistence, but you see Gianni and Fantino cut up at every single game. We don't have control of that.

23:53Nedum Onuoha:I feel like the story of this World Cup has been FIFA taking it further and further away from what football fans want and it becoming a personal project of at least the president of FIFA and maybe a few others around him. And the question it leaves me with is what can football do about it? and can the football community do anything to change it? And I'm not sure what the answer is. So I think the two points that you've made are really good points and it's kind of linked to my point as well. And I think it's all to do with the fact that this particular one was held in USA because I think the last time FIFA were able to make this much money from ticket prices was in USA 94 because of the way that they do tickets for their sporting events here.

24:45It's very different to say around the rest of Europe in particular. But add into that, like, you know, the host broadcaster, here's Gianni, here's this star in a stadium, here's this, here's the hydration break. The commercialization of it all is like insane. But again, it's a very like American thing. And I think my moment really is sort of like Trump's intervention with the Balogun stuff. And the fact that that was perceived to be all right from the president, to be all right from so many other people involved. No, this wasn't right. Let's go and try and get it fixed. That's not the way that football works.

25:19And that's the same way that, say, Gabby's talking about tickets. That's the same way that you, Mark, are talking about, say, pitches of Infantino and this, Daniel. That's not the way that football works. And I think if this same 48-team expanded World Cup was in another country, I don't think it would have looked the same as this. And that's not necessarily for the worst, even for Infantino. If FIFA's supposed to be politically neutral, but for the last two years you've seen him attach himself to Trump by the hip and say, oh, you are the best this, you are the best that. Oh, Mr. President this, Mr.

25:46President that. Even him trying to be involved in that picture yesterday. Stuff like this make this the most abnormal World Cup that there's probably ever been in our lifetimes, at least. And I think the next ones to come will be different no matter where they're going to be held.

26:00Nedum Onuoha:Let's do our final one, which is moments of the tournament. Maybe this will be a bit more positive after that. Shall I get us going, then? OK, you get us. So my moment of the tournament is the person who found the picture of Messi bathing Lamin-Yamal. because that has given so much joy to conversations. And even post-match, we were still chatting about it on the bus away from the stadium yesterday. Just the preposterous nature of that photograph, but also the fact that it was a competition. Can you imagine now having a competition to have Jude Bellingham bathing your baby? I mean, just different times, right?

26:43Different times. I'm giving safeguarding issues galore here. I'm very uncomfortable at this picture, but it is what it is. That baby should grow up to be Lamin Jamal, who's also given us so much joy and will probably continue for the next 10 to 15 years to do that. Yeah, whoever that person is that dug that photo up, bravo, take my hat off. Go on, Aidan. Fair. My one is like a reminder that football is very, very serious, but there are always lighthearted moments as well. Like the amount of times I'll be in a game, everything's all serious and someone will crack a joke and you might crack a joke to the opposition, to your own team, whatever.