Arsenal's Champions League heartbreak | Merson on penalties, parades and what next?

0:02That sound could mean a lot of things. And when something's going wrong at home, the hardest part can be figuring out what the problem actually is. At Thumbtack, you can upload a voice message or a photo, and our AI-powered search will help diagnose your project. Plus, the pros we know have over 14 million five-star reviews, so you can hire with confidence. Thumbtack. We know homes. Hire the right pro today.

0:32This is a Global Player Original Podcast. Modewiki was fighting with Karl Palmer to take a penalty at 4-0 Chelsea were winning. Wasn't fighting on Saturday to take a penalty. He hasn't had his most effective season, Odegaard, has he? Do you feel he might be vulnerable to some recycling? If a player wants to go to Arsenal and they want it, they can make that happen. I can't see Bellingham sitting there for four, five, six weeks not playing. I've done the American smooth to Vindaloo on Strictly. You did the American smooth to Winderhue. And pray give me two out of ten.

1:11Welcome to the Sports Agents. Hello, Mark. Hi, Gabby. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. Managed to catch the Champions League final over here in sunny Spain on an iPad. You'd think in a country with such an abundant love of football, I'd have been able to find it on a screen somewhere, wouldn't you? But no. Especially as it is a European tournament. You'd think, but they're not in it. They're not interested, apparently. People kept coming past me, speaking Spanish, asking me what I was watching. I was amazed. Heartbreak, though, in the end, of course, all coming down to Gabrielle's penalty.

1:45And I did at that moment feel this kind of foreboding sense of what might be to come this summer. Already you were thinking that. Just a little reminder of heartbreak that could be on the way. It is the cruelest way to end your presence in any tournament, because it can happen in the knockout stages. But when it is the final moment of the final of a 60-match-long season in which you have dominated a competition, as Arsenal have in terms of their wins and their defence and only being behind less than 45 minutes this season, it just felt like a particularly cruel blow, didn't it? It did. So Paul Merson will join us to talk Champions League final, Arsenal season and what happens to Arsenal from now, who they're going to sign in the summer as they look to go from strength to strength.

2:35I did the Challenge Cup Final, the Men's Challenge Cup Final at Wembley on Saturday, which is now tinged with real sadness for all of us connected to rugby league in general, BBC Rugby League in particular, because John Keir, who was a legendary head coach, who was part of our commentary team and has been part of our commentary team for many years on TV and radio, when he was going home from the Challenge Cup Final, died suddenly on Sunday. He'd been commentating on the game alongside Matt Newsome and Jonathan Davis. He had an amazing head coaching career. Well, he had a playing career, first of all, and then an amazing head coaching career.

3:19He was responsible for one of the greatest shocks in any sport when Sheffield Eagles won the Challenge Cup against the all-conquering Wigan team who had won so many Challenge Cups in the 80s and 90s. and John masterminded that. And then, I mean, fans of all sorts of different clubs will have their own memories of John, but I'm a Hull FC fan from my time at a university in Hull and he was Hull FC's head coach when we won the Challenge Cup in Cardiff in the mid-2000s when we beat Leeds and I was there that day and that was a magical day, so he gave me many memories there. But he was just a... You meet these people, don't you, Gabby, who work in whatever sport it is, but the sport that they love and want to sell that sport to as many people as they can because they believe in it and they believe in the people who play it and work in it and the communities that it represents.

4:16And John was all of that, really. And I had a message from a friend today who said he sounded in great form at the weekend and then followed that with, to be fair, though he always sounded in great form and that was it he was one of those people who was never grumpy when he turned up for work always smiling always talking about the sport always had a word for everybody and it is just a real a real shock and a real sadness over the sport and and to his wife and and friends and family i mean it is an indescribable loss really yeah we send all our I love, hope, condolences from the sports agents to his family, the wider family of Rugby League as well, and to you, Chappas, as well.

5:06Thank you. It's tough when you work that closely with someone, and as you say, exuding that passion. I didn't get to see the weekend's Rugby League action. It probably won't surprise you after I've told you how difficult it was to find the Champions League. Well, yeah. Were Wiggins wins for both the women and the men not on? but that really is nobody chatting about it but there is a link that i'd like to talk to you about because i understand sean edwards was there handing out yes he was yeah and of course he is big news this weekend in terms of rugby union because um his axing from from his coaching role for for french rugby french rugby union of course their team national team that he's been with for over a decade is is imminent if not confirmed that he's about to be axed um and obviously this has led to all kinds of, the rumour mill in Rugby Union is alive and well, you know, wondering where he's going to go next.

5:59I mean, if it's in Axing, presumably this is not something that's orchestrated and he doesn't have anywhere necessarily lined up, but there will be no shortage of takers because obviously England could probably do with his skills. Yeah, God. Many clubs will be looking to, you know, to see if they can secure his services as well. You would have thought every club and every Northern Hemisphere international team And maybe the Southern Hemisphere international team will be looking at his services somehow, won't they? Absolutely. I can't see anyone who wouldn't want Sean Edwards involved. He's 59.

6:36He's still got quite a few years left, you think, in terms of his coaching chops and energy. He doesn't seem to have any shortage of energy. He might want to take a break. But boy, he could walk into, I would think, most jobs, as you say, in the Northern Hemisphere. So we shall see where that goes over the next few days. And speaking of sackings, it looks like a friend of the pod, Andoni Iraola, will end up as the new Liverpool head coach. All the signs are that it's going in that direction after Arna Slott was sacked at the weekend. We might get Paul Merson's thoughts on that as well when he joins us.

7:10But that all happened very quickly, didn't it? Yeah, much talk through the back end of the season as to where the slot could stay. And then, oh, if he secures Champions League football, then they'll keep it. I never felt that securing Champions League football was enough, not for a team that's had 20 defeats across all competitions in this season. And apparently, I mean, the article I read talked about the board sitting down and looking at the metrics. Well, the metrics are pretty simple, aren't they? If you're losing and you're Liverpool and you're not winning any trophies, it's a bit of a disaster of a season.

7:40You're not getting close to winning trophies. It's a disaster of a season. So the writing seems to be on the wall for slot, but I'm not sure the writing was on the wall for Iriola to be the man to go first. His reputation now is one who seems to be able to get the most out of his team with this high-energy football. Yes, that's Liverpool, tick. But also is used to players moving on. He's going to have the luxury of retaining players potentially at Liverpool. So it's a whole new world for him. It is. We'll maybe touch on that with Paul Merce when he joins us. And don't forget that that Andoni Iriola episode is available as are all our episodes on YouTube.

8:16Global Player or wherever you get your pods subscribe or follow and leave us a review while you're there and Paul Merson is next Paul thank you very much for joining us before we do Arsenal what do you make of Slott and Liverpool I'm quite shocked Mark if I'm being honest really really shocked yeah I thought I thought at least get another six months you know to win the league and still qualify for the Champions League I know it wasn't the greatest of seasons but it's not like Liverpool have been great great for the last 25 years So for me, for them to win the league and then to get in the Champions League again, I thought we'd done enough to at least have another six months.

8:53But looking from the outside, it was pretty strange, really. It looked like for me that Liverpool were waiting for Alonso to get a job, wait, wait, wait, and then get rid of slot. It was weird, really. Why wouldn't you go for Alonso? Club legend, top manager. Strange. Yeah, and the direction that they appear to be going in now, is that also slightly strange for you, Areola? I do find it strange, the Areola. I'm a big fan of his, don't get me wrong, but he was managing at Bournemouth. It's difficult. We see so many managers, don't we, that come from no disrespect to him from a lesser team and then go and try and manage one of the big boys.

9:33And it's hard. The expectations is difficult. And, you know, I know he went 19 games, which is unbelievable what he'd done, but a lot of them were draws and draws won't be good enough at Liverpool next season. they got a win-win-win and you know he's a quiet sort of manager doesn't really do loads and loads of interviews and that will all change now he's managing one of the biggest clubs in the world of football so if he gets you know I hope he does well because I do like him and I like Liverpool but it's going to be a big ask if we move on to Arsenal then are you in the camp that thinks they may be set for a period of dominance, given how many of their rivals are starting again or in transition.

10:18In fact, probably the only sort of top five, top six club that isn't in transition is another one of your former ones in Villa. But all the others are sort of starting again-ish. Yeah, I remember sitting on transfer deadline day and we all thought Liverpool were going to be that team. You know, they just bought Izak, they bought Verts, Eketike. And they probably thought exactly the same as you, Mark, where they probably thought, well, Arsenal keep on coming second. Man City are going to be in transition. They haven't won the league. Chelsea are not going anywhere at the moment. Tottenham struggling.

10:56Man United with Amarim weren't doing great. And they probably thought they were going to dominate English football for the next five, six years. And all of a sudden, they've sacked the manager. But I'd be shocked if Arsenal went away. I just think Arsenal are a proper, solid, solid football team with solid seven, eight out of ten players week in, week out. Not your nine out of tens and then your four out of tens. They are across the ball, seven and eight. Let's get into that final, shall we, Merce? What it was like for Gabriel. You've been around those moments for a player who feels like it's all come down to him and how quickly he can brush that off heading into his own World Cup journey.

11:40Gabby, I never, ever, ever look at the players that miss. Never. My first thing when the penalty shoot that's after is, who could have took a penalty? That's the first thing I always look at. I never worry about the five that step up. You step up and miss, I have no qualms. I always look at the players who could have stepped up. At Stamford Bridge last year, Mudawiki was fighting with Cole Palmer to take a penalty at 4-0. Chelsea were winning. And they were fighting over the ball. Fighting. wasn't fighting on Saturday to take a penalty. And that's what I can't have. You know, Zubamendi, one of the top midfield players in this country and at Spain, you know, who's a centre midfield player who had probably one of the best techniques about, you know, probably will end up taking a penalty for Spain.

12:29They should be taking penalties before a centre-half. That's no disrespect to centre-halves, but them two people should be doing that. And I always think of that first. And I remember when Madawiki was literally fighting with Parma. I mean, you said yourself, though, a 4-0 scoreline, I suppose. Yeah, exactly. They're fighting over it because it was 4-0. But when it's on the line, they want to stand back and let a centre-half take it. And for me, you know, I just thought that I never, you know, poor Gabriel, poor Eze. I mean, I have no problem with that. They stepped up. They had, you know, it's not easy to take a penalty.

13:06It's the walk from the halfway line is the one. And a lot goes through your head. Arsenal came into it with the best defence in the Champions League. They've not been beaten across the league face. They did everything right in terms of, if you look at the history of the Champions League, teams with the best defence usually come out on top. And that's the way they approached that final. They dug in for 50, 60 minutes. Their defensive performance was incredible. But the stats in terms of their possession, I think it's the second lowest in the Champions League final. A team has had the ball. Did they get it right?

13:37I mean, obviously it comes down to penalties in the end and you can say what you like about that. But in terms of the tactics employed by Arteta, did they get it right? In my opinion, yeah, they did. They did. I didn't think they were good. I wouldn't say not good enough, but I didn't think forwardly thinking they were good enough to open the game up against PSG. I think when the game did start to open up in extra time and towards the end of the end of normal time, I thought Arsenal looked quite decent. but it's all right having 70 odd percent of the ball but Ray made one save from a 40 yard free kick from Hakimi which he which I would have saved so they did do something right in the end the dream was they scored after six minutes and it give themselves something to hang on to if they'd have held on didn't give away the penalty in 1-1-0 we'd be sitting here now saying it's a master class of all master class so it's a hard one for me I thought they'd done well they're screaming out for a centre forward with pace.

14:38I think if they can get a centre forward with pace, who's electric, then I think they'll dominate and I think they've got every chance of the Champions League next year. I just, without that centre forward, they're just going to, it's still going to be short in the Champions League when push comes to shove. How many players do you think they might make a move for this summer then? I think they need a left winger. I think for me, I like Trossard, you know, but I think Trossard he's not got that he's a very very good footballer he's a good squad player so I would definitely go left winger and a centre forward who's got sheer pace like really really quick so when you're playing against these top teams like PSG they could squeeze up on the half way line they had no threat that Havertz or Kukarez was going to run beyond them so they can push up and then that was the problem and then poor Odegaard struggle, doesn't get any time on the ball doesn't get any space You know, so you need them kind of players.

15:35So I would say a centre-forward and a left winger for me, definitely. He hasn't had his most effective season, Odegaard, has he, for Arsenal? Do you feel he might be vulnerable to some recycling this summer? It's madness for me to be saying this, but they probably will be thinking about that. They probably will be thinking about that. But for me, I still think there'll be teams queuing round the block for him. I think, you know, just probably with Arsenal. when you play in the position that Odegaard plays in you're screaming out for pace up front you have to have pace you know we see it with Palmer last year with Jackson not this season, last season Palmer was a different player he had Jackson up front who had that pace who just wanted to go that way this season he's had Yard Pedro who wants to come this way and he squeezes the game so for me if they can get someone with sheer pace up front I keep Odegaard every day of the week but if they don't then I think he might be wasted.

16:32I mean, the beauty for them is they've got the options and by the looks of it, the money to do whatever they want. I mean, if a player wants to go to Arsenal and they want him, they can make that happen. And I sort of say that with sort of one eye on, say, Alvarez, who they've been linked with. If they want him, they could more than likely get him. Whether he'd prefer to go to Barcelona is another matter. But that's the level. That's where Arsenal are now. Yeah, I think Arsenal have jumped the queue. I think, you know, you've got Arsenal need players. Man City need players. Man United need players.

17:08Chelsea need players. Tottenham need players. You'd think Villa might try and strengthen as well. So all these clubs need players, and there's not a lot of players out there. So for me, Arsenal would be in the front seat, in my opinion. I think they're the team at the moment you're looking at, and you go, cool, I wouldn't mind going to play for them. They look like they can win the league again. They're always around the Champions League last four or at least last eight. So for me, Arsenal have jumped the queue, but they've got to take a chance, Mark. You know, there's a company out there that sell more burgers and more chips than anybody, but they still do adverts.

17:45And that's what you've got to do. When you get to the top, you've got to keep on pressing and pressing. If you don't do that, then you stay still. And how many times have we seen teams come up into the Premier League and go, you know what, I'm going to stick with this team. They got me to the Premier League and they get 20 points. And that progression that Mikel Arteta has been on over the last six seasons, in terms of players, you know, the players that have been brought in at the right time for the right job, you know, like Gabriel Jesus was the right player at that time. Obviously, you know, he's brought in players that have been appropriate for that level of the journey, if you like.

18:22And the journey now, as you just said, Chappers, you know, if you look at the Champions League journey, quarterfinal, semifinal, losing in a final. Well, the next rung on that ladder is winning a final, isn't it? And the journey has been in an upward curve, kind of almost the trajectory has been perfect, hasn't it? They do seem to now be at the top. And that's not an easy place to stay, as we know. The competition to kind of topple you is high. Arteta's done something that hadn't been done for 22 years, won the league. Champions League's got to be next, hasn't it? Yeah, but I'd still want to dominate.

18:55If you're Arsenal, you still want to dominate the Premier League as well at the same time. Yeah, I still think that. I think what they've done at Arsenal is mind-blowing. I honestly think you look at the squad, you looked at the players that Arsenal were bringing on in that second half an extra time compared to PSG was mind-blowing. It was literally mind-blowing. Arsenal squad to PSG. PSG have got an unbelievable 11 or 12, 13. I don't think PSG could play in the Premier League week in, week out and win the Champions League. I just absolutely no chance. But what Arsenal have done, you know, you took the players in Kepi, Mascaro, Gabriel, Saliba, Raya, you know, all these, Trossard, you know, Kukarez, Havertz, all these players could have been bought by any other club.

19:42They wasn't£100 million players where you're like, oh, I can't take a chance on him. They're all around the 30, 40 and maybe Havertz a little bit more. What Arsenal have done is amazing. But then they've got to go out now for me and buy that real, real. You know, I think Dewey as well at PSG. I know people might say, why does he want to leave PSG? He's just won it there. But their league's not the greatest, you know what I mean? So what you're doing, you're only getting pushed for them 12, 13 Champions League games a season. So I would like a Dewey and an Alvarez. And if they got them and then, wow, I dread to think who's going to stop Arsenal.

20:21Just a final one, because we're going to move on to the World Cup in just a moment. But a final one for me when you're looking at it. They've played 63 games this season of Arsenal. So some of those players have played the majority of those. Do you worry about that from an English perspective going into this World Cup? I mean, Declan Rice is the obvious one, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, Declan's robust. I mean, he turns up week in, week out. There would have been games this season where he was 75%, 70 % fit, but still wants to play. There's not many of them around anymore. Do you know what I mean? Nowadays, players have to be 100 % fit.

20:57If they're not 100 % fit, you know, the physio tell them and they're not going to play. I don't see that with Declan Rice. You know, Tuchel will have to look after all these players on this trip anyway. You know, it's a long, grueling 60, what, six weeks, something like that, from now to the end. The heat's immense. You know, if they win their first two games, then you'd like to think he'll change it completely for the Panama game. These things have got to be done. You know, I think if he gets carried away and keeps on playing the winning team, then I think the heat catches up with him in the end.

21:31I know Chubb said that was just one more thing, but just on, can we just go back to yesterday and maybe even, you know, the week gone Tuesday when Arsenal confirmed as champions and the scenes that we've seen outside the Emirates spontaneously kind of combusting that night and then what happened yesterday. And just give us a kind of sense of somebody who the club has been so important to you, what it has meant to see those scenes. Yeah, unbelievable. Honestly, unbelievable. I think for anybody, unless you're from a couple of clubs, supporters, I mean, it was so refreshing, you know, for a team that big to go that long without winning the league.

22:09you could see with how many people were there. I just thought it was great. I thought the scenery, for them fans who have turned up week in, week out at work for the last three, especially the last three years coming second, and then the 20 or whatever years before that of not winning it, just for them fans to go out and enjoy it. I think them scenes have been as good as any we've seen from a Premier League winner, in my opinion. We'll turn our attention to the World Cup with Paul Mercer next.

23:06compare prices with a tap all on the app thumbtack knows homes download the app today

23:17let's move on to the world cup then how are you before it starts how are you looking at thomas tucall's squad i was shocked with harry mcguire i was really really i honestly mark really shocked with that one you know i know he's not gonna play dan burns not gonna play but Harry Maguire's got all the experience in the world. He's been on tournaments before. He's been there. He's done it. You know, this tournament's all about the players that are not playing. Isn't that why Jordan Henderson's there? Yeah, maybe. But I still think Harry Maguire, because if you're taking Dan Byrne instead of Harry Maguire, I don't know what for, if I'm being honest.

24:00And people, I've talked to people and they go, oh, Dan Byrne won't play. Well, if he don't play, why don't you take a Carl Palmer or a Foden? And the thing is, what he's looking at probably, Tuchel, is what players are going to be happy not playing? Because you're there for six weeks and it's a grind for them players that know they're not playing, that they won't play. And there's going to be a couple of big names that don't play in that. And I just thought the Harry Maguire one being around the place, being there would have just been... Well, did his response, though, to not being picked justify why he wouldn't be happy if he wasn't playing, if you see what I mean?

24:37I mean, he kind of combusted and his family combusted on social media, didn't they? So if he wasn't being picked, maybe he'd have, you know, a bit of a strop, let's say. Yeah, I don't think he's that good to have a strop, if I'm being honest, but I still think he's good enough to be in the squad. You know, I don't, I think if players are fit, I don't think he plays, but he never lets you down. You know, he probably thought he was cocksure to be in. In my opinion, he probably thought, I'm definitely going to be in this squad. I've played, I've been on, come on against Japan. I looked to fret from set plays.

25:15I've been in the tournaments before. You need that little bit of experience. And I thought that was the shock. I think not that he would have been playing every game, just a shock. He probably hadn't even booked his holidays because he probably thought he was going. Bizarrely, therefore, having a 26-man squad now, as opposed to a 23-man squad, actually makes that selection of those extra three players probably quite difficult. Because as you're saying, you're actually wanting to put people in who aren't going to mind not playing. So that actually changes your selection, sort of. Yeah, I would say so.

25:53I think it's harder. I think now you get that extra three players. You're putting in three players that are not going to play. They're not going to play. And you've got to hope that them three players are really, really just going to get on with it. You know, I think off the top of my head, I can't see Bellingham sitting there for four, five, six weeks not playing. I just can't see it. I just can't see it. I just, you know, and I know people go, oh, we will, we will. but he plays, he played in the last tournament. I just, this is the problem, is going to be the players that don't play how long they stay together.

26:32And in terms of that whole kind of being together on tour and getting that balance right, we know Tuchel has a quick impact, doesn't he, at club football? You know, he doesn't stay long at clubs, has success, moves on. Does that mean that he understands culture, do you think? Can he create culture quite quickly? He's never been in a tournament before. This is the problem. You know, Gareth, you know, people will say, oh, Gareth should have won this, should have won that. For me, I thought Gareth done an unbelievable job. Unbelievable job. But the one thing Gareth had in his favour, he'd been on tours before, he'd been in tournaments, and he knew what it was all about.