Celebrity Traitors with Clare Balding

0:02Mary Earps:This is a Global Player original podcast.

0:05Clare Balding:Well, like the rest of the country, we've been traitors mad over the last few weeks and now the winner has finally been crowned. Don't panic. No spoilers on this show, partly because we're recording it before we actually know who the winner is. So it's a good way not to reveal anything, isn't it?

0:21Mark Pougatch:And flying the flag for the world of sport were Joe Marler, Tom Daly and Clare Balding, putting everyone to shame, of course, in the physical challenges. until Claire pressed that button too early. Well, Claire joins us today for a slightly different episode of The Sports Agents.

0:35Clare Balding:What was it like being part of Celebrity Traitors? Was Jo Marla that intent away from the cameras? How did she feel when she found out who the traitors were?

0:45Mark Pougatch:And later, we're going to look back at a big week on the show with none other than Sir Gareth Southgate and Mary Earps.

0:51Clare Balding:Welcome to The Sports Agents.

1:00Mary Earps:The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

1:06Mark Pougatch:I think it's fair to say, Chappers, that we at Sports Agents Central are very excited about the final of the traitors. We have all been absolutely hooked and we were thrilled. There was such a strong sporting cohort, actually, at the start of the traitors. And I'm delighted to say our colleague and now banished traitor Claire Boulding can join us on the podcast. Hello, Claire.

1:31Gabby Logan:Hello. I thought you were going to say our colleague and friend.

1:37Clare Balding:If I'd have done the intro, I would have said friend, obviously. Thank you, Jeff.

1:42Mark Pougatch:You don't want to make it look like you're only coming on because you're a friend, obviously. But yes, of course, friend before traitor, obviously. But I mean, super excited, Claire, that you were in it because I knew that one day, I'm not yet, I get some inside goss, but you're being very tight-lipped about everything. I've been messaging you and you're not saying much. You're not giving much away. So let's try and tease a bit more out of you now. How big a fan were you before you went on? How much did you know?

2:08Gabby Logan:Oh, massive. I mean, obviously, I watched every series and I had met some of those who had been in earlier series. So I'd met Harry, who obviously won series two or three or whichever one. I met Frankie, who's lovely. I met Paul, who was a traitor and got banished eventually. And so I talked to them. But again, you're not allowed to discuss the circumstances around the show. But the show itself is fascinating as a psychological test. And a couple of things that I think make it so different from sports, you know, we are all team players, but we know who's on our team. And I love playing on a team.

2:47Gabby Logan:But to play on a team when you don't know who's really on your team is very discombobulating. And it makes you, I'm a very trusting person. You both know this. You know, I'd walk into a room with my tail wagging and want to be friends with everybody in a quite annoying way sometimes. But to be forced to be suspicious, I found that really uncomfortable. I really didn't like it. And I wanted to make sure, you know, as is my way. Firstly, I wanted to organize everyone in the first mission. And then, of course, we didn't notice that. It was that, hugely annoying. And then I made the mistake with the lever, which was me just not listening to the instructions and thinking, we just need to start here with numbers while the actors work out and name every single person in Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet.

3:35Gabby Logan:I need to put a number in and I need to try it and then we'll put another number in. Yeah. And then I realized when I pulled the lever, I couldn't put another number in. my nephews were just like oh my god aunt Claire what have you done at that precise moment when

3:50Clare Balding:you realized what you'd done before anybody else maybe realized what what was what what was internally were you going through at that point I think you could see it all and hear it all

4:01Gabby Logan:externally what I was going I swore a lot and then I shrank after that yeah so I went super Right. And actually, the next mission, I made sure I had the most unobtrusive role that I just literally stood there looking like that guy from Slow Horses, the one in the hoodie. And I had my hood up. I just looked like a psychopath with a hood on, just standing there going, I don't care what goes off, I'm not reacting. And me and Ruth standing next to each other just going, we'll be quiet while everyone else makes fuss. but I felt like I'd let them down and I promise you it was the most awful sensation I mean it I was yeah oh to be honest all the faithfuls forgave me it was the traitors using it against

4:48Gareth Southgate:me to try and you know Alan coming back to it I believe it Alan who forgot he had a shield I mean

5:00Clare Balding:look to the evidence on the bigger picture in all of this and i think we're all very similar in how for the job we do we we have to be meticulous don't we we have to do the research and spot the little nugget that then leads to the question that then leads to the interesting thing so you are meticulous and i would also say claire from having done stuff like pointless with you you are competitive as well you know i do tell the story about how when i arrived to do pointless with you you were in the dressing room revising african capitals and i thought crikey i'm gonna have to up my game here um but bearing in mind the competitive nature in the metic and how meticulous you are you can't really do research or anything for this can you and as you say you can't be too competitive because it's all about working with people and reading people and you don't have much

5:48Gabby Logan:else to go on yeah very little to go on other than what i kept trying to say to them was i thought Alan had murdered Paloma because he was with her. And I thought that was fairly obvious, but nobody was listening. You've got to be really open and prepared for the whatever they might throw at you. You've got to be incredibly patient because filming days are long. You've got to be good with understanding other folks and their fears. I spent a lot of time with Lucy on the first day because she was absolutely certain it was going to be her that would be taken out. and she was genuinely scared. So me and Charlotte were singing.

6:23Gabby Logan:So it's all off camera, just like jollying her along. And, you know, again, you know what I'm like, because that is quite an annoying trait that I will always try and jolly everyone along. I'm such a walking stereotype. But anyway, yeah, I was very much looking out for other people, which is why I was so in tune with Ruth and making, because I knew Ruth didn't know anyone. And I thought she was so brilliant and she's so bright, but she's also brave. she didn't care about anyone's status so she took Jonathan on I thought that was incredibly admirable because no one else did until the night they finally got rid of him Joe Marlow was the only one who was going it's true but they're not listening to Joe and it's so interesting because you think about it in I was thinking about staff meetings and a lot of my friends are PE teachers and they find that that they don't get listened to whereas the history teacher or the English teacher or the head of science has a status.

7:18Mark Pougatch:So sport was low down in the kind of pecking order really in terms of what you bring to the party and actually he was sitting back and he's observed brilliantly the whole time hasn't he's really unnerved Alan as well Alan can't read him so that's been quite interesting because he's sometimes Alan looks slightly offended by the stares that Joe can give but Joe is just looking at people observing and making this alliance with

7:43Gabby Logan:nick which has been quite interesting also how valuable was he in the missions and that's again from a sports point of view i would have had tom for as long as possible because he was brilliant in the missions he was fast he was quick thinking super observant and i would have had joe for as long as possible because he's so strong and he's got stamina he could he could do things he didn't lose his focus at the end of tasks or missions whereas a lot of people do because you get tired

8:12Mark Pougatch:Because in the sport he did at 72 minutes, he'd still have to be making really important decisions and while exerting himself physically. So, yeah, it makes sense that he's got that ability. But as you say, I don't think the sports types are highly regarded almost in those environments, are they? Which is a bit naive of the others.

8:31Gabby Logan:I totally agree. And I think those, you know, again, those roundtable situations where certain voices, they carry with them a lot of votes. So if they go against you, you are toast. It was really interesting. I was so thrilled to see everyone again the other day and to be able to kind of just chat, you know, with Paloma, with Nico, with Celia, with Charlotte, with Ruth, you know, just think to ourselves, we've been through something quite extraordinary. But I wonder, and I did say this to the producers there, if it had been genuine randomness in picking the traitors, we were numbers put into a bag and the balls had been picked out and numbers 7, 10 and 19 are going to be traitors.

9:14Gabby Logan:I think that would be even more interesting because they've spent a lot of the game trying to work out who would Claudia pick and who would have been a good combination. and actually that's that's clouded their thinking two of the three actually hiding in plain sight jonathan and alan because they kept thinking that would be too obvious have they taken your production tip on board claire was that well sadly enough they'd say there's a thought there's a good idea you might see us doing this we won't of course give you any credit for it on on the mechanics of

9:48Mark Pougatch:it as a show and you've you've alluded to being bored at times and you know those shows always have so much downtime or off-camera time that you don't see. I know you have to go into your rooms in the evenings without your phone and without iPads, a connection to the world. You don't have that ability to just kind of call home, do you, even in that period? So was that something that you found challenging? Because you are a busy bee, aren't you?

10:12Gabby Logan:Yeah, hugely challenging. Because also I'm a very social being. Like I don't want to be on my own for 10 minutes, let alone hours on end.

10:20Clare Balding:Sounds a perfect show for me.

10:23Gabby Logan:and like gabby when you did your wim hof thing you had all that time with a tight group of people and you weren't competing against them you were competing against yourself so i am just much more that kind of that but i don't want to get in cold water but but i wanted to you know be with people that i wouldn't ordinarily get to mix with so that's why it was so exciting to to get to know cat burns i mean when am i ever get all ruth i mean when am i ever going to meet them and most of the other people i i knew a bit it was like i mean joe joe marler i hadn't met because um i haven't had the opportunity to interview him but flora my niece was she was so excited that i was going to meet joe marler oh my god i mean this was like the biggest deal to her whereas for toby middle nephews it was nico and two boys i went to brentford liverpool the other weekend and the two boys in front of us only young I mean like 10 and 12 and they kept looking around and they kept looking around eventually they turned around and went you've met Nico haven't you

11:27Gabby Logan:it's really fascinating from that point of view I mean the production is just insane I mean it's so impressive and I couldn't get over the scale of the missions and the different things that they were trying to test and I love that because we were all working together but yeah I the environment where people are being set on each other I find that very difficult and I think you're abnormal

11:52Clare Balding:if you if you don't find that difficult no but that's that's actually quite a difficult element to it isn't it because you know with a lot of these things this inverted celebrity versions I haven't done it but if you get voted off the weakest link you're not going to be really that bothered are if you go out of the mass singer i can't imagine i think gary and i would both be

12:12Gabby Logan:quite bothered if we got off the weakest linker yeah well yes you both would admit yes you were

12:17Clare Balding:you don't have to pair with robbie savage so i'm pointless yeah to be fair to be fair you were actually you were a bit pissed off then weren't you when you when you and robbie went out because

12:27Mark Pougatch:he still to this day didn't realize we were looking for the lowest number of points so anyway

12:32Clare Balding:but that's another story because because this is a game and actually because you are kind of controlled by traitors or one false step and and the pack mentality and you could be gone it actually becomes a lot more personal doesn't it you know and you did feel for Kate a couple of times in it you know it can get quite personal about how you behave in your characteristics and so on so you've got that desperation to do well in it and to try not to be picked apart it is is quite cruel in a in a sort of entertaining way but it is quite cruel in some places

13:08Gabby Logan:Celia said that a number of times of how cruel she thought it was and she said it in her exit interview but she also said it to me early on but it is hugely engrossing and fascinating and I think the psychology part of it and the study of human psychology and what people do, how they behave when they're under pressure, how difficult it is to defend yourself when you're being attacked. Well, there's nothing you can say, is there? Everybody just says, I promise you I'm not a traitor. I know, I know. And I was so surprised by it because it came from nowhere and suddenly everybody's having a go. And I'm like, what's happened here that you all now think it's me?

13:47Gabby Logan:and what had happened obviously because i've seen it since is is jonathan had happened um and and and if i'd known that you know you think these things afterwards all i needed to say was jonathan if i was a traitor i wouldn't have needed to set you up i would just have murdered you and it seemed a bit rude to say that too so you're kind of not wanting to be rude but also you and it could have saved your life yes it could have done and also meant that people got him a bit sooner

14:16Mark Pougatch:What did you think when you eventually found out who the traitors were?

14:20Gabby Logan:Well, I wasn't surprised by Alan because obviously I voted for him twice. I wasn't actually surprised by Jonathan. I just was annoyed. And Kat, I thought, fair play.

14:30Mark Pougatch:Yeah, she played a blinder.