Chelsea's Alonso 'coup', Mourinho's bad karma & how to settle Spygate 2.0?

0:02This is a Global Player Original Podcast. I'd spent the previous two days telling people that Xabi Alonso is not going to Chelsea because he's going to Liverpool. I was there that night, right, and Clarence Seardorff, Real Madrid legend, he will never go back. How can he possibly go back to that club the way he behaved that night? Morality in football, the goalposts remain on wheels, they're moving whichever direction we want. So bearing in mind all of that information is available, why do it? I think Southampton should be punished. I don't think Middlesbrough should be rewarded. I think it's very clear that this is very unclear.

0:41Welcome to the Sports Agents. Hello, Mark. Hi, Gabby. How are you? Very well indeed. We've got a lot to talk about today.

0:48Gabby:There's an awful lot of football. I mean, every weekend there's an awful lot of football happen. But with the kind of weekend that we've had and some of the stories that are now developing as we record this, like off the field stuff, there is an awful lot to get into. One of the biggest off field stories probably of the season and the fallout and impact could be huge. and it is of course the espionage, the foot chase through a golf course, changing clothes, using credit cards to find out where the accused was hanging out. We're talking of course about Spygate and that whole debacle. We're also going to talk Xavi Alonso coming back to the Premier League's manager of Chelsea and Jose Mourinho going back to Real Madrid as head coach.

1:36But you want to talk golf first today.

1:38Gabby:I thought you were going to say one of the biggest stories was Nader Manua joining the sports agents on a Monday for the foreseeable future when we talk football. I thought you were saying that is the news that has rocked the footballing world. That is one of the big stories. Shall we formally welcome him into the sports agents? We hadn't rehearsed that either, Nader. We just kind of outlived that. That's how we do it, Nader, just to give you an idea of the style. Okay. I'm well aware. I've been a listener. And yes, I've picked the perfect week to come on as well. But you are right. Me joining should have been the biggest news.

2:16Unfortunately, I just have to sit to the side for Spygate this week.

2:19Gabby:I just want to mention the golf. Now, you don't have to come in on the golf, Nadim. I don't know. Have I ever talked to you about golf? Have we ever discussed golf? Yeah, we have. Yeah, we have. We have. We've had some very private conversations about golf and who's good and who's not. We have done that before. But last night was just a phenomenal performance by Aaron Rye, who is an Englishman from Wolverhampton. And he has become the first Englishman to win the USPGA in over 100 years. And he started his round indifferently yesterday on what was a really, really difficult course. And yet his back nine was sensational, including a nearly 70-foot birdie on 17, which basically sealed the title.

3:04Gabby:But in this age of massive hitters and people booming it and then just seeing what they can do after that, he's a really interesting tactical golfer who plots his way around the golf course. And this was a really, really difficult golf course. So by thinking and by working his way around, he sort of rose to the top of it. And he's just such a came across so well afterwards. He's such a nice bloke. One of the unusual things about him is he wears two gloves. Which I've always wondered, Nadam, especially in winter, why people just don't wear two gloves. I think it's a genius idea. I used to love playing golf through all conditions.

3:42But then when it turns into two gloves, it's like, well, why don't you take the gloves off and just stay inside? But credit to Aaron. Because he, so if you notice, on his cap, he was wearing something that said Me and My Golf. I mean, My Golf is like a big sort of like coaching group. I think it's Piers and Andy. And I used to watch them when I was first starting my golf journey on YouTube. And they used to talk about Aaron Wright like over a decade ago, Aaron Wright, Aaron Wright, Aaron Wright. And I was like, Aaron Wright, whatever. And now Aaron Wright, the history maker, a deserved history maker because he's not just become good now, he's been good for such a long time.

4:17And I love the sort of humility of it all because I think at times, in my opinion, like golf can be a sort of a game of like the haves and have nots. And he seems to be a bit different to the normal sort of like country club mentality. We've all done this, like we've all had the time. We've all been able to afford this and afford that. because as you know it's a very tough game to firstly be good at but a tough game to have a

4:36Gabby:career in because it can be so expensive you know we often talk don't we on this podcast about how kids are developed and how you get into sport and then how you become elite and so on and so forth and it all started by accident for Aaron Wright in that his mum he'd loved hockey and his mum was meant to go out and buy a sort of plastic hockey stick for him to play with and couldn't find one so came back with a plastic golf club and then that complete and then he fell in love he fell in love with golf that is extraordinary that is amazing yeah i'm so pleased for him i'm so and he's kind of as i mean nadam says you know aaron rye aaron rye if you're in if you're in nadam circles but i think below he's sort of the next level within public recognition you know He's not one of the Ryder Cup players at the moment or one of the big beasts of golf.

5:30Gabby:But what an opportunity for him. My mind turned because on Saturday I met somebody from Northern Ireland and they were saying, oh, Rory's going to win Sports Personality of the Year again. Imagine having two golfers on the shortlist for Sports Personality of the Year. See, that's the kind of thing I think because he would get he would obviously get a certain amount of attention on mainstream media and television that would really propel him forwards, wouldn't it? And like you say, a real role model then for kids who think that golf is about private clubs and country clubs and all that kind of thing.

5:58It's actually accessible and it's accessible to kids who don't look like the rest of the field.

6:04Gabby:Yeah. So was I all right to talk about golf? Yes, but we have got two very big football stories because we mentioned Spygate. The other one, Nadam, of course, is the return of Javier Alonso to the Premier League as manager, manager of Chelsea, not head coach. So should we kick off with that one? Yes, let's do that. because of course there was this kind of perceived wisdom in football that he was the natural successor and heir to Arna Slott whenever that comes to an end and obviously Jamie Carragher for one has been somebody who's kind of thought that was an absolute shoo-in and would seem to be more surprised than anybody that this kind of turn of events has arrived are we to kind of the manager title are we putting a lot of weight on that and what it means to the structure of Bluco and how Chelsea is run, Nadim?

6:51Yeah, I would think so because titles do matter within football. But what I would wonder is what does that mean for, say, some of the other people already hired by Chelsea who've been doing part of the jobs that maybe Alonso will do now, whether it's the case of, you know, some of the recruitment side of things, some of the management of other things within the training ground. Because at times, I'll be honest, I thought in 2026, most people taking the helm of a football club would be head coaches. Here is your focus because we've got all the other infrastructure to allow you to just focus on that.

7:20Like in my mind, gone are the days of, you know, like a Sir Alex Ferguson who would manage everything. You know, he'd be speaking to bouncers, who's been here, who's been there. Has anyone been seen out? I want this guy, I want that guy. So I thought a head coach role would be significant. But when you hear about some of the rumors about interference and so on that came with the previous two managers, yes, it seems like Blue Coat are taking a different turn and it's not too soon given how unhappy, I think the vast majority of the fan base have been with them as owners, you know. So it's interesting as well.

7:52You mentioned, you know, Jamie Carragher making a mistake. I'd spent the previous two days before the FA Cup final telling people that Xabi Alonso is not going to Chelsea because he's going to Liverpool. Adam swore by it. Put like my career with Mark Chapman next to it. I guaranteed it. You know what I mean? Don't waste your time thinking otherwise. and then all of a sudden I've got to walk it back and pretend that I'm still somehow an expert within this field but I think for him the opportunity is there and I think with all the failures that come at football clubs the remit I think it changes the job description starts to become more streamlined and they can figure out what they like and they don't like that's both the manager and the football club and I think if they believe that Jabby Alonso is the right person to be able to manage more things and that's what he wants to do then the club are finally starting to listen to the fan base see how successful or not successful Chelsea have been and start building for the future in a more positive light do you think it's about I mean I take your point on Fergie and knowing Banz and

8:50Gabby:this that and the other I wonder whether the title matters more internally bearing in mind at least one of the previous managers would have suggested that what he wanted to do played second fiddle to what the medical department were saying so by being manager do you then become top of the pyramid as opposed to as opposed to sort of part of the pyramid i think what i would say initially with that is like the medical team are supposed to work in unison with the manager but the manager is the person essentially alongside the player has final say so if the medical team can say no to the manager then realistically like who is in charge so I'm surprised that that's something that was going on beforehand obviously there have been players that can say that they play can't play players that come back too soon players that come back too late and so on but it is about the collective like I saw at the FA Cup final when after City lifted a trophy and stuff you looked and you saw how many staff were there now and they're working as a collective that's something that's changed so much across the decades that say in the last few decades of football has been essentially growing as such so i think for xavi alonso the the management side of things in my opinion is good because he can say yes he can say no and technically speaking if they put him at a different place on the ladder then there are more people that have to accept that and have to listen but it's a shame that we are here today deciding that that's you know that's a good thing because surely this must have been a good thing for a very long time and i don't think he's going to be one of those that will be a sort of autocrat dictator type of the football club because he wants to be successful but any club is not really about just the manager it's the collective maybe the title manager has changed uh since sir alex ferguson's time in terms of you think about the staff that he would have had it would be much more streamlined wouldn't it he wouldn't have had as many people at his um you know his behest to kind of use for all kinds of things the sport science has changed as well is it more kind of internally what it looks like to the players especially those big name players who know that actually the buck stops with this guy and is their respect for him automatically and immediately going to be higher than it would be for somebody who comes in with very little experience, who's called the head coach, who maybe works within the Blue Coast system and has come from one of their other clubs and they feel like, yeah, this guy's done it all.

11:15He's won Champions League. He's played at Real Madrid. We know this guy has got an incredible record. Possibly, but then there are examples where that's not worked before. You know, we could talk about, say, for example, Stephen Gerrard's tenure at Aston Villa. We could talk about some of Wayne Rini's tenures at his clubs as well. So it's not necessarily like the star power. Because, you know, we then have the other side because we've got like Vincent Companies and Xavi Alonso's at Leverkusen to where it can actually work out. Well, yeah, I think with respect to Stephen and Wayne, I think Xavi's managerial career is more proven, isn't it?

11:46I mean, his win rate with Real Madrid, in spite of his sacking, was 71%. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But it was more so in terms of like a player's appreciation of what a player did during their career was the point more so than the managerial one. But I think it's, I think, you know, I played for so long and I don't want to demean like your role as a player, but you basically just listen to the manager because the manager has final say. so whether it says head coach like manager guy that's picking team guy that's putting cones down like you you have to sort of respect them because that's where you are in terms of that hierarchy you cannot pick yourself country to what some people may believe so I think from a respect standpoint you know it's good that he has the title but I think whether it was head coach or manager like with Liam Rossini beforehand Liam Rossini might do the exact same training session as Javi Alonso might speak to the players in the exact same way and even though the title is different for those players like very quickly they decide whether they like somebody or they don't you know whether they feel something's good or something's bad but the title itself isn't necessarily the thing that sort of defines how you perceive someone it's so many other things

12:50Gabby:on a day-to-day basis they strike me chelsea as being quite well set up in certain areas for him to um replicate his by leverkusen blueprint if he wanted to with his with his three at the back and win backs and sort of two tens and so on and so forth and João Pedro as a centre forward for him. There may be, and there's one article I read in The Athletic, oh, well, the win backs might not be quite right for him to replicate what he did at Leverkusen. But there is a squad there that you look at and think, compared to Real Madrid, where it was all about kind of managing a bunch of kids, basically, but there is a group at Chelsea...

13:34Gabby:Petulant kids? Yeah, you could say Petula, could you? Yes. There's a group at Chelsea who look like they could be coached into something that would work. Yeah, I agree. And we have, in spells in the last couple of years, seen them be competitive, seen them be able to compete against the likes of Arsenal, Man City and others. And, you know, I'm going to mention it. I know some people don't respect it, but they did beat PSG last summer for that Club World Cup title. You know, lots of other teams didn't get the chance to do that. So there is a positive that's in there. And I think as I look at the Chelsea team now, for the cup final, you had Jao Pedro up front, who I thought was great.

14:08They've got a midfield which could feature Enzo Fernandes. You could say Rhys James, Moises Caicedo. I think they're a really good three. At the back, I saw Levi Colwell come back and he looked solid. He looked robust. He looked like something that, say, Chelsea have been missing over the past season. So those are the key players that are there. And they've got others within that orbit who essentially, like they're good players, but they're more like role players and interchangeable to a certain extent. but you're right I think Xabi Alonso should he want to sort of go back to playing that three I think the potential is there I think the vision that he had and the way he coached the players at Leverkusen is going to be more possible with these Chelsea players than yeah than he was with Real Madrid because with Real Madrid for as good as they are there's always talk about Mbappe and Vinicius Junior because you know Xabi Alonso when he first went to Real Madrid I remember talking about it at the start of the year and the rumor was Florentino Perez had said that he's backing Xabi Alonso 100 % to tell Mbappe and Vinicius that they have to work harder, they will not be in the team.

15:04Maybe two games after those guys are not in the team, Xabi Alonso's lost his job. Whereas I think this time, it's not really about the individuals, it's about trade coaching up the collective to achieve their potential. And that is the type of job that I think Xabi Alonso could do with those players. Because he did it with Florian Verts, didn't he? By Leverkusen, he really brought him on. So he can work with young players and give them a bit more to their game. He's clearly, you know, he's hands-on in that respect. And such a young squad, Chelsea, as well. And as you point to, good club success, which, you know, shows you that there is talent there.

15:38They had that big night against Barcelona in the Champions League again when it was all, you know, it was all kind of lined up that night to be about, you know, a completely different player in Jamal. It wasn't supposed to be about Esteval, and it ended up being about him that night. So you think if you're a Chelsea fan, there's a lot to be really quite excited about with him coming in. Oh wow, there's some stuff to sort of stress about from this season though because it was, was it two months ago? It's like, can six teams fit? Which of the six teams will be in the Champions League next year? You know, who's going to drop out?

16:10Is United? Is it Chelsea? Is it Villa? Is it Liverpool? Then all of a sudden, Chelsea just, they would have lost six games in a row. They're hoping to get into the conference. Yeah. Well, that's the funny thing as well because again, football, what I love about it is everyone's perspective is so different. there are some teams who would do anything to play in the conference league and I listen to some Chelsea fans and to a certain extent they're right for thinking they'll do anything to not play in the conference league so the sort of battles within the league themselves are so different They'd rather go win the league Yeah, without question Chelsea I think as a football club in the last well since the year 2000 basically it's been about winning titles it's been about say winning cups to a certain extent but competing in the Champions League and things like that and when you see where they're at now no team has been that great for that great thing not that long ago once they hear the word project you've seen some greatness now all of a sudden you've taken so many steps back and you're you know you're so far behind in the pecking order

17:04Gabby:on Xavi Alonso's former club then in Real Madrid and Jose Mourinho is going back on a two year deal as manager as manager as manager as manager I don't know what is this do we know what he's titling um um why why why would they have why would they have done that I mean, I have sort of personal feelings on Mourinho, which is, I know Benfica went unbeaten under him this season in the league, but they still finished third. My personal feeling is in the last decade, he's tended to suck the life out of most clubs that he's managed. So why? Head coach, I think it is. Why is a fantastic question, and it felt like it came out of left field, given how we just perceived that controversy between, say, Benfica, Mourinho, Real Madrid not that long ago.

17:51you know Mourinho defending Pristiani no he didn't say this he would never say that

17:56Gabby:there are there are rumors that one of Vinicius Junior or Mbappe will be sold and Mbappe is not happy either so he's he's he's going into a dressing room isn't he that he has history with in not a very good way and also a dressing room that has history with its own fans at the moment in that the fans aren't particularly happy with some of their players yeah for sure and I don't know were you two any of the people that signed on for that petition to get Mbappe to leave Real Madrid just just double checking for us but yeah you're exactly right and it seems like it's a fractured dressing room and in some ways you can understand it given how it feels like at times some of the players on the pitch are playing a different sort of game add into that the context that they've not they've now not won anything for two seasons they've not had say Champions League success that the league stuff hasn't been great and when you're almost trying to create a plan for the team.

18:49It feels like it's for most of the team and some guys can do something else. So with Mourinho, I didn't see it personally because I thought, you know, that bridge was burnt from years ago, let alone after what happened in the Benfica game. But it feels like they want to bring somebody in with a presence. And I think maybe Xabi Alonso didn't have that, unfortunately. But is Mourinho the next best thing? You know, I was there that night, right? And Clarence Seardorff, Real Madrid legend he will never go back he will never be able to go back after that night he said he can't how can he possibly go back to that club the way he behaved that night and I think we should remind ourselves kind of how you know how outspoken he was and he didn't need to be because you remember he got sent off and he didn't even need to do the press that night and he came out and he defended his player in the face of you know what obviously with all these things you know the actual news story of kind of how the investigation went doesn't make news does it?

19:47But of course, the player, Prestiani, defended himself by saying it was a homophobic slur, not a racist slur. Well, that's all right then. You know, and obviously Vinnie Jr. maintains it was a racist slur. And Mourinho, he deflected by saying that Vinnie Jr. needed to stop acting up effectively and stop his celebrating because that was inflaming the situation. and that, Neydom, was perceived by most people in football to be the wrong response and certainly put a death nail for a lot of people in him coming back to Real Madrid. Yeah, for sure. But from our perspective, Florentino Perez, he couldn't care less.

20:26I think he's looked at that team, decided that he needs someone who is going to take more of a command of that space. I'm surprised Mourinho would want to do it anyway. But I think he's shown as well through the years, whether he's been as successful in this last decade or not. The fact is once upon a time he was very, very successful and he's managed players who have been bigger than both Mbappe and Vinicius Junior. And I think that's possibly one of the reasons why Perez believes they can bring him back. But I don't like it. But again, morality in football, the goalposts remain on wheels. They're moving whichever direction we want because, for example, there'll be tons of footballing like Spurs fans who love De Zerbe coming in to give them a chance of survival, but some that hate what he did when he was at Marseille with Mason Greenwood.

21:08You know, there's a real sort of, there's not consistency to what people want. And even though the move itself for now feels incredibly moral and incorrect, if Real Madrid are somehow winning a league next season and you're seeing a better version of them, how many people then go back and talk about what came before? And this is just, again, for me, just highlights the inconsistencies we have as people.

21:28Gabby:I just think there's so many things there that they have to sort out and so many players that have been really important to them. that you now hear stuff whether they will be moved. I mean, Valverde is another one that they're talking about that may move on or to a many because they had this disagreement, which may not have been a disagreement, and he accidentally banged his head off a table, which is easily done. But I kind of... No, it's funny. It's funny just because somehow I was at the bottom of a suplex, but I accidentally landed on that table. I can't think how. but I think what I would say about Real Madrid is that it's a tough club for them to want to sign you and as a consequence it's a big decision to leave it because I think for as much as say they have their issues and we don't like this and don't like that it's fair to say that like people's careers are very different when they're playing for the biggest club in all of football given how big football is so yes Vinicius Junior could say that he's going to leave or someone could say they're going to leave but where are they going to leave to and how does that change who they are as a player and the moment that they're in right now because, you know, when Real Madrid has success, it's like the biggest thing in football.

22:40And I'm sure the players in that dressing room probably feel they're not too far away from it. Maybe he's inspired, Segway, maybe he's inspired by Martin O 'Neill coming back to Celtic and doing what he did at the weekend. I think it's almost like a little kind of hybrid story before we get onto Spygate. I think we just need to acknowledge, obviously, the success of Celtic at the weekend in winning the Scottish League, having hardly ever been at the top of the table. How long were Hearts at the top of the table?

23:07Gabby:Hearts were top of the table for 226 days. Celtic had been top for just one and that was the final day. And even in the penultimate round of games, which had the biggest effect on this title with Celtic's late penalty at Motherwell, Hearts were at home to Falkirk. that whole evening went in a way those hearts fans went from the title race still being on to them at one stage if everything had stayed as is they had won the title that night to then knowing that if they went to celtic and didn't lose by three goals so they could have lost two nil or one or whatever they would have still have won the title to then at the final final minute realising that they would then have to go there and actually just avoid defeat so the emotions they went through that night and I think it's really it's it's not a tricky subject to discuss but to be balanced about it you have to recognise the effect that certain refereeing decisions had on the title race by also I think but at the same time going how Martin O 'Neill managed to do that where Celtic were when he took over twice during the course of a season to get them to win it from someone who had been out of football for quite a while he is a very genial individual and unique yeah as well and to go into that dressing room in his early 70s and still lead them to touch that I just think it that that you have to recognize as an achievement whilst recognizing that other things went their way and wondering if anybody will ever break that duopoly.

24:49And next season, Hearts will think of themselves as a team now that can challenge for that title. But it feels like it's going to be harder for them because actually, if Martin O 'Neill had stayed with Celtic and they hadn't had that break, they probably would have won the title a few weeks ago.

25:04Gabby:Yeah, I just think Hearts aren't going the way. I just don't. That's the thing. That's what they keep saying, Nadeem. Tony Bloom has also got quite... I know he's invested literally, but I think emotionally he's got quite invested as well, hasn't he? So Nadam Anua is with us on a Monday when we talk football now. And next we will talk everything that's going on with the Middlesbrough Southampton spying row.

25:32That brings us on, shall we move on, Nadam, to Spygate. And the big day is actually tomorrow, Tuesday, isn't it? because that is when an independent inquiry will happen.

25:48Gabby:It's so independent that, without jumping ahead, it's so independent that whatever the decision is, the EFL could appeal it and Southampton could appeal it, but Middlesbrough can't appeal it. Presumably because EFL are putting Middlesbrough's case for them. But that's why I read the EFL could appeal it or Southampton could appeal it, but Middlesbrough aren't able to appeal it. What were your thoughts on this, Nodin, when you first heard it? And how do you see this panning out? What's the best way for everybody that this could be resolved? I don't think there is a best way, to be honest. And that's the issue with this, because as is the case with any sort of footballing matter, like your bias just seeps out into how you perceive the whole thing.