Content is king but at what cost to player privacy?

0:01This is a Global Player Original Podcast. So you've all seen the viral video of Coco Goff smashing her racket in a corridor at the Australian Open. I tried to go somewhere where there's no cameras. Like I said, I don't try to do it on court in front of kids and things like that. But I do know I need to let out that motion. Otherwise, I'm just going to be snappy with the people around me. And I don't want to do that. I tried to go somewhere where they wouldn't broadcast it. But obviously they did. So, yeah, maybe some conversations we can be had because I feel like at this tournament, the only private place we have is the locker room.

0:39Content is king, but at what cost to player privacy? Novak Djokovic has said before it's like Big Brother. Other players like Igor Swiontek and Jesper Gula are concerned. We have to stop with these cameras. Like, this is crazy. Are we tennis players or are we like animals in the zoo where they are observed, like, even when they poop, you know? So, OK, that was exaggerating. obviously, but it would be nice to have some privacy. But isn't this the kind of access that we all wanted to drive sports broadcasting forwards and grow the sport? The bigger the sport, the more financial rewards for players.

1:13So why complain? Or are we in danger of forgetting they're only human? Welcome to the Sports Agents.

1:27The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. So we're going to talk a little bit about the conflict between the desire for constant content and whether or not players should have some area, some kind of privacy when they're at work to go and vent their emotions, Chappas. Yeah, I usually think, as I will make the point during this chat, that it's just a bit of personality. And she didn't do any harm. She didn't shout at anybody, swear at anybody, hit a ball boy or ball girl with a ball. Just in a moment of anger, she smashed a racket. I don't see the issue really. And I don't know if there's anybody who has a major problem with that.

2:08I suppose it's whether or not she thought everybody, you know, was going to see her do that. And I guess that's where some tennis players seem to feel that they've crossed the line in that. And yet, as we'll probably discuss, they all want content out there because it's what their brands want. It's what their earnings are dependent upon. So Jamie Murray is at the Australian Open at the moment, sitting outside court while the semifinals are going on. And Molly McKelvey joins us as well, a journalist who has written about this for her substack. But do you actually like sport?

2:47Molly, Jamie, thank you very much for being on the Sports Agents. I've just before you joined us, I just ran a theory past Gabby and she said, oh, you should ask them both that. That's what you should start with. so at the moment do you think tennis players complain more than any other elite sports stars at the moment um i think we hear from them a lot more than we hear from other athletes and maybe that's it and you don't get that with every player from a football team or or every other athlete obviously the chatter about you know grand slam prize money is has come up again and you know know the top players wanting a bigger uh cut of the of the revenue you know when the players are complaining about you know more access so fans have more access to the players and stuff and you know they want to see them more behind the scenes and what they're up to and kind of telling those stories then you know that's also a way for the tournament to bring in revenue to potentially pay for you know these uh these upgrades and prize money maybe as well molly and jamie it's what it takes to be a tennis player you know you go out there and you're absolutely exposed there's nowhere to hide you haven't got teammates that you can kind of just let take the slack for you your emotions are high which is what people love people love the personality players who give them something a little bit extra.

4:10And so maybe to counter Chapa's point, because I didn't necessarily completely agree with him, I think some other individual sportsmen and women also speak up quite a lot. Maybe to get to the very top of the game, you know, those are the personalities that shine through, you know, and have that. I know there's a certain bravery, there's agency in terms of feeling you can talk about what you want and what you want to demand from your sport. And you're Right, Jamie, we are here primarily to talk a little bit about Coco Goff's outburst and the fallout from that and whether or not players should have areas after they've competed that are sacrosanct, somewhere they can go and scream at a wall or smash a tennis racket to bits without the world seeing what they're up to.

4:55And is that something, Jamie, that you feel perhaps there needs to be a line and that it was crossed? Well, I think there's a discussion around it. But yeah, I mean, I think in terms of the Australian Open, my understanding is that, you know, they only have cameras in, you know, walkways to the practice courts, walkways to the match courts and the gym. So it's not like more unusual from, compared to other tournaments. I mean, if you want to smash a racket, like, you know, you can go into the locker room and do it, right? No one's filming there. But your team, your other competitors are in the locker room, right?

5:32so they might see it yeah but what do they care they might it might be them doing it the next week anyway right like everyone's going going to experience disappointment at one stage in that in that tournament you know maybe you need a bit of space at times to you know smash your racket but i think there's there's definitely places on the ground that they could uh they could do it it's obviously unfortunate what happened with with coco but i i don't feel like it's uh an issue really to be honest i have to say i don't feel like it's an issue either you know she got she got wallops molly and was was annoyed what where's the i know it's not you know a good luck for kids and this that and the other but i don't really get what the big problem is it's interesting this whole debate happening because i don't think i've seen many people criticize coco for smashing her Raka it's pretty normal I think it's rare for her because I don't think she's really done that on court before or been caught doing that off the court either and for her I guess it feels like a big deal oh do you know what Molly it didn't look like her first rodeo to me well we've not seen that before I guess I'm sure she's doing that somewhere and yeah she was even getting tips from Serena Williams on Twitter on how to how to do it in one smash rather than having to go for it again and again so um i think it's also about i guess players wanting to have a certain control over their image maybe and with these cameras around the grounds in these corridors maybe they feel like there's too many unguarded moments being captured and this maybe was the line that was crossed for coco who is someone i think who talks to the press it's really open with the press is open on social media she's not exactly kind of a shy character she's definitely one of the bigger personalities i mean i don't think anyone has called her out and said this is kind of unacceptable behavior like it seeing this very human side of these top athletes is actually i think more refreshing to see like a proper reaction well that's what people want to see don't they they want that authenticity and and they got that yeah i don't think coco came out of it looking bad at all i think it was more that you know some of the players kind of stepped up and said look like we think it's there's not enough privacy backstage or whatever but then you know they've had record numbers of players requesting their own film crews at these tournaments and you know one of the players that was stepping up in defense of coco was had been filming in the locker room which they shouldn't have been doing and promoting things that they're doing in their personal life, of course.

8:14So, you know, it's... So the thing is, Jamie, they would say they're in control of that, right? And so I suppose what the debate seems to have been to me is it looked like she felt she was going into a private area. She waited till she turned the corner and she was maybe going to be away from the cameras. And so I suppose how I've read it is that maybe there was an element of it being an infringement of her privacy. If she'd wanted to be filmed, she would have done it in clear sight, wouldn't she, of the court or clear sight of cameras. So I suppose, you know, looking at this from a wider perspective is player privacy.

8:46And yes, be in control of your social media because the sport loves all of that and wants to see behind the scenes. But do we have the right to see everything from these players if there's a camera there? Is that what we're saying? Do we own them effectively once they step into that arena? No, but I just, I think that, I don't think what the Australian Open was doing was out of the ordinary compared to other tournaments. Like it's perfectly normal in tennis these days for, you know, events to have cameras in gyms. Like it's permanent. Like they don't have sound on them. You know, they follow the walkway to courts and stuff now.

9:26Like, you know, players know the cameras are there. Like they see it because they watch TV and they see where the other players themselves at certain moments of the day while they're preparing their warm-ups and stuff in the corridor before going out. She would have known that there was cameras there. Maybe she's not thinking that in that moment. But of course, when she's showing herself maybe not in the best light, then of course she doesn't want that to be seen. I guess that's what the conversation is. But again, I don't think, Percy, that she came out of it bad, I don't think. But you must feel, Jamie, I mean, when you go to an event and, you know, show your pass and go into the event, whether that's courtside or the warm-up area or in a gym, that it's your place of work and you are likely to have eyes on you, aren't you?

10:19I think I would kind of agree that the locker room is sacrosanct and that is for you, the players, and nobody should see in that in the same way that you don't, you know, really see inside, I don't know, a locker room at the Masters, for example, for the golf. But once you walk into an arena and there are open spaces or an event, there will be eyes on you. It might not be a camera, actually. It could be a security guard. It could be anything. But that's your place of work and people will be watching you. Yeah, I agree with that completely. The reason is that more and more tournaments or the tours or the slams are doing this because they want to capture more content.

11:01then they want to show the fans behind the scenes, which is what so many people want. And of course, that brings more revenue to the sport and more money, hopefully, back to the players, which is what they want. If they keep asking for more and more and more money, the tournaments and the tours have to find ways to bring value to the broadcasters or the sponsors or whoever that can help them bring more money to the table. I guess, Molly, different personality types enjoy attention more than others. We can see that in any sport, that certain people don't mind giving of themselves. Other people like to hold a little bit back.

11:42And there's really, once you enter that arena, there's not much you can do. You must have come across in your work, players who are much more introverted and much less likely to want to give of themselves. Yeah, for sure. I think we saw that with the reaction. You've got Igor Sviontek defending Coco and saying, are we animals in a zoo? And she's spoken about being an introvert. She's spoken about how she kind of needs more quiet time. She doesn't socialise with other players in the same or doesn't feel she can give of herself during a tournament in the same way as maybe other players. You see Carlos Alcaraz in some of this footage walking around the corridors, just chatting to anyone, socialising, having a great time.

12:19It doesn't seem to be an issue for him that he's being watched at all times. But for other players, it is. Someone like Igor Siontek, who has spoken about needing that kind of space and needing a bit more privacy. And I guess for players like that, this would be an issue. But then equally, like we've been chatting about, there's more and more players are now bringing their own content creators on site with them. They're bringing people with cameras. Some of them are even filming documentaries or vlogs. And so they know content is king here. They know content is the thing that drives sport now.

12:52It's what drives revenue in a lot of ways. And so it creates this debate because if they're creating their own content and they want to put themselves out there in any way that they want to, that they can control. goal I mean the tournaments need to get in on that as well I guess and that would be what the Australian Open would argue and that's what's really driving eyes to the sport as well I mean I was looking at their Instagram the Australian Open this morning and like some of these behind the scenes videos are getting incredible kind of viewership you've got like a video of Yannick Sinner getting in a golf cart that's got a million views on it a video of Igo Sfiontek for getting her accreditation has more than a million views like those kind of mundane but unguarded moments behind the scenes are valuable to audiences and valuable to the tournament so if it doesn't suit your personality that's really tough but I also I think the players kind of know that there doesn't seem to be a way of kind of going back on this either I think Iga Siontek was asked like have you spoken to the tournaments and she was like what's the point like this is kind of the way things are and I think as much as they've kind of complained about it I think there is an acceptance that there is going to be a lot more of this as time goes on you know here like there's no cameras in a locker room there's no cameras in you know player dining or in like recovery zones or quiet rooms or sleep pods or or anything like that like there's loads of this venue and the players that don't have cameras is basically just the gym so that the tv can show the guys of the girls warming up how they're preparing for the matches and then obviously basically just like the walkway to the to the match so it's not like the it's not like you turn up and you get out your tournament car and someone's just there with a camera in your face for the next like five six seven hours until you until you leave the ground like it's not it's not like that at all depending on your point of view molly you may think the australian open are leading the way to a bright new future or some people may think they're you know trampling all over how sacred sport can be but this this major appears to be streets ahead of everyone else for content and generating stories is that fair i think that they're known to be kind of innovative in the way that they put new things in place i mean these cameras we've got to say they've been in place for for years i think since 2019 so it's not like a new thing and also the Australian Open brought in the the coaching kind of boxes a court side on the main courts that's something that has been popular in terms of being able to get more insight into what coaches and players talk about during during a match and so yeah I think as a journalist as someone who is always wanting to kind of see more lift the lid on what's happening behind the scenes for me and also as a viewer I think it's really interesting to be able to get this kind of insight and for everyone to be able to see this I mean even during the one point slam you could see like the reaction of the players and I think it was in the player's lounge people behind the scenes people like Carlos Alcaraz watching the amateur win the one million dollar prize like they were all just celebrating back there that footage is was insight that we wouldn't have had if if not for the Australian Open putting up those cameras and letting us in in that way I think also for the Australian Open like they are the smallest of the slams in terms of revenue, you know, generators, and it's the smallest market as well.

16:23So they need to be innovative, and they need to figure out ways to, you know, generate more revenue if they're to keep up with the other three slams. Yeah, I think, you know, if you're a fan of sport, you love the sport, but you also do want to kind of get that insight into those people that you admire. And when you can learn and glean any kind of information about them you know it does sate that desire in a generation as well that's being brought up to think that they can find out anything about anybody on social media so i guess in future generations chappers will just see this as the norm won't they in terms of what they're what they're allowed to know about their sporting heroes also we don't in any sport you just don't want robots you want a bit of personality don't you that's why that's why i don't really have a problem in any how many rackets have you smashed jamie out of interest not many because i didn't couldn't afford the fines I'm not earning like some of these guys certainly not what Coco Goffs and Iguod Siontech are earning I had to think twice about where I was hitting tennis balls or smashing rackets What were you smashing then?

17:25Teacups? Water bottles? No, nothing, I was just having to swallow it

17:33Suck it up, move on Thank you so much both of you for joining us today and keep enjoying the final weekend out there, Jamie. Bye. Thank you. Cheers, I will. The Sports Agents.

17:50The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. So another great week on The Sports Agents. A lot of football this week. A lot of football. You weren't here for the Manchester United are back and we're going to win everything episode. It wasn't quite like that. We talked actually more about interim managers, caretaker managers, and how they deal with everything. Neil Redfern was with us three-time interim for Leeds United alongside the Athletics' Karl Anker. I think in Carrick's favour, he's very understated in the same way that Michael Carrick, the football manager, is like Michael Carrick, the football player.

18:30He's not going to try and grab headlines. He's not going to play 100 million miles an hour. he's a person who sees things in a different way in a certain way he's very meticulous there's been some fantastic writing about how his autobiography came together including some segments about how to Carrick even being five minutes early counts as being late which you're like yep that's why you're a midfield maestro all about metronomic patterns and tempo there as well I think whatever's going on with Michael Carrick right now in charge of Manchester United I don't think that should mean Jason Warcox, Omar Barada or Sir Jim Ratcliffe should be cancelling any scheduled meetings they have with any prospective coaches.

19:09But I do think if this form continues, and there's possibly a good chance that it might, they should also then begin to start scheduling meetings with Michael Carrick for the permanent role. And then on Thursday, we discussed the final night of the league phase of the Champions League and the fallout being that English teams have had great success in that league phase. And football journalist Guillaume Balaguet had his take on that. It feels like because five have gone through the top eight, the impression I've got reading and hearing UK commentators is that, oh God, the Champions League is not what it used to be.

19:45Oh, it's so boring because five have gone through. And it's like, I can tell you, if that happened in Italy, and Spain would be like, yes, come on, we're the best, whatever. And why we are the best and why we have to make sure that we replicate so we continue like this. And by the way, wouldn't it be great if we had four in the semifinals? I was on Five Live this morning and I said to Rick, it would be four in the semifinals for Englishites. And he goes, oh God, that'd be terrible. What? What? No, no, it'd be great. So it's a little bit of a feeling. Do you know what? It is exactly that, Guillaume.

20:21I think the worst possible thing could be going out to another English team in a European competition. And also, I don't think, I may be contradicted, I don't think the majority of fans of a club who are in the Champions League are worried about doing it for England. And also two-time World Cup winner and Olympic gold medalist, Tobin Heath. The valuations of teams are going up, the players' salaries are going up. Anytime this is happening, obviously it's going to increase for all, you know, because there's a player that's like two million dollars. They're they're thinking to themselves, well, I'm pretty good.

21:00I'm almost as good as Shreem Raman. My salary should be well above a million dollars. But do other clubs have those benefactors? They're going to have to. So in the U.S., teams used to be owned by, you know, tens of millionaires. Now you have to be a billionaire to own an NWSL team. That's completely different stakes here. So that's it for another week on The Sports Agents. If you've been listening to this on the News Agents feed, just search for The Sports Agents to listen to those episodes in full on YouTube, Global Player or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, if you can, to hit subscribe or follow.

21:32The Sports Agents at global.com is our email. You can also get in touch on social media or via the link in the show notes. And we have new episodes every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

21:50This has been a Global Player original production.