Do Arsenal have questions to answer over Thomas Partey?

0:02This is a Global Player original podcast. Mark and I are always talking about how sport in this country can be improved. And our special guest today is a woman who really can affect change. Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Lisa Nandy will join me in the studio. Earlier today, the final stages of the Football Governance Bill were read in the House of Commons, a crucial step before the bill can be passed into law. So we're going to speak about who owns our football clubs, If these clubs can be trusted to govern themselves, perhaps the effect the bill will have on free-to-air football.

0:34How can the government better protect female athletes like Emma Raducanu from stalking? And after a 4 ,000-hour drop in PE last year in our schools, will they get a grip on grassroots sports? We'll start the show today, though, by reflecting on Thomas Partey, who was charged with rape and sexual assault just four days after he left Arsenal, charges which he denies. There are legal reasons why we can't discuss the case itself, but we'll discuss why we're finally able to name him and whether, irrespective of the case, Arsenal should have continued to play him. Welcome to The Sports Agents.

1:18The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

1:25Hello everyone, no mark today. In a moment we're going to bring The Telegraph's Tom Morgan in to talk about Thomas Partey. But if you're enjoying The Sports Agents, please make sure you follow and subscribe to the pod and leave us a rating and review as well. All our episodes are on YouTube now to watch as well, at Sports Agents Pod. Catch up with all our recent episodes, like our behind the scenes at Wimbledon last week. I was at Wimbledon yesterday, actually. In fact, I've been very lucky. I've had two days running at Wimbledon. Yesterday, though, I was in the Royal Box, which was rather special.

1:57And a close friend of the pod, Daniel Valverdu, was coaching Grigor Dimitrov, who, of course, ended up two sets up against Sinner, looked seemingly in control. But for a fifth Grand Slam in a row, he was forced to retire through injury. It was heartbreaking to watch. And centre court will rise to Gregor Dimitrov as if he's won the championship because they will feel such sympathy.

2:33What a thing sport is and that's awful. Also in the day, a little bit earlier on, it turns out I wasn't the only one who wanted to look good in front of Roger Federer. This was seventh seed Mira Andriva after beating Emma Navarro in the round of 16. I really tried my best not to look over there in the box because I knew that as soon as I would look there, I would just completely lose my focus. And so did I at 4-1. I saw Roger and Mirka. So honestly, it means a lot to me that you came and watched my match. I don't know, it's been one of my dreams to see you in real life.

3:15I can tell you as well, dear listener, that Roger Federer is as charming and wonderful as you'd like to believe he is. And I thoroughly enjoyed being a metre away from him at times yesterday, although not too close that he noticed. Congratulations to Lando Norris for winning his first British Grand Prix. And you can check out our interview with McLaren CEO, Zac Brown, from last Thursday. And our weekend edition has had a little makeover too. It'll now feature bonus content as well as our week's highlights. This weekend was a closer look at the Tour de France and what it really takes to win the world's toughest race.

3:48We're going to have more Q &A sessions in the weekend edition as well. So if you've got a question for Mark and I, get in touch on our socials or you can email us thesportsagentsatglobal.com. OK, let's get on with our top story today with Tom Morgan, who's sports news correspondent for The Telegraph.

4:09so let's speak a little bit more about the thomas partay case and the ramifications for that in football with sports news correspondent for the telegraph tom morgan but first of all tom you join us from the high court um because this is a big day in uh the wimbledon expansion plans wimbledon obviously wanting to to have its own practice courts to have its own qualification courts because the moment they have to go off site to do that and by doing that they want to take over effectively Wimbledon Golf Club. That's right it's been a really chaotic morning there's hundreds here they've the high court had completely underestimated quite the level of fury and dismay there is amongst local communities in Wimbledon essentially this will treble the footprint of Wimbledon they're going into a golf course 38 new courts including one major show court which look incredibly exciting for the tournament itself.

5:01But as we often see with these issues, they become incredibly divisive. And this is actually a planning row and a one stage along what could be quite a difficult few years for Wimbledon. OK, and there is a Ben Ainslie intervention. Can you explain what this is? I think that's to do with the water quality in this quite a large lake. And he's come in and promised as part of this development. we reported that last night that he'll help to clean the waterways which have become really quite polluted by years of golf course maintenance and the chemicals obviously that pass through into the waters. Okay let's get on to why we've brought you on to the podcast today, the Thomas Partey case.

5:41Can you just tell us exactly what we do know now? This saga stretches back three years to when he was arrested in July 2022. We reported a mystery Premier League footballer had been arrested at the time. Throughout this three years, there's been several moments in which he's been arrested again in relation to other allegations. But the curious thing about all of this is obviously in this post-Levison era, it's become very, very difficult and fraught with risk for the media to name suspects prior to charge. But at the same time, obviously Thomas Partey's name has done the rounds and there's been these remarkable situations of him being jeered at games his name being chanted we had him take a penalty on bbc prime time on a sunday fa cup match against manchester united and he's taking a penalty you can hear his name being chanted on bbc prime time yet we can't actually explain exactly why that is and obviously last week he was now charged with five counts of of rape and one of sexual assault charges which he denies and i think the question that has been raised by a lot of people is that there is there seems to be no guidance or no guidelines as to how football clubs in particular, and I guess you could expand that to the wider sporting world, and I know it happens in entertainment and other industries, should deal with this because you're reaping the benefits, as Arsenal did, of his playing ability and his talents for those three years.

7:03While he has obviously had very serious criminal investigation going on around him, these pertain to violent acts against women. He works with lots of women around him at the football club. whether Arsenal have a moral duty to suspend a player like that rather than carry on selling his shirt in the club shop? Well, firstly, it's understood to be Arsenal's position that they followed legal advice throughout in their decision not to suspend him while in full knowledge that he was under investigation and then had been arrested again and again. We're now in a position the FA and the Premier League aren't commenting, but I'm presuming once this is concluded, there will be a little bit more of a clear policy established for football to really know what to do because we've now had quite a few different cases in which football clubs have reacted in different ways.

7:52These cases that I'm about to mention now have not led to convictions, but Mason Greenwood has faced allegations, Benjamin Mendy too, and we've also got a Premier League player that we can't name whose career has effectively come to a halt as a result of allegations. Some clarity, the clubs have acted at different stages. Greenwood, for instance, was suspended almost as soon as as soon as the allegations arose. So it's just so immensely complicated now for football, especially in the social media era when there's so much speculation and it's impossible to sort of put a lid on that in perhaps ways it would have been a bit easier to manage in the sort of pre-digital media age.

8:31And Arsenal, we should say, their response to those issues of potential concern was that the players' contract ended on June 30th and due to ongoing legal proceedings, the club is unable to comment on the case. I imagine internally there were very many concerns and issues. Undoubtedly. We've had the Arsenal supporters against sexual violence group literally protesting at most home games since Christmas. The Arsenal women's team, of course, won the Champions League this summer. They are a huge source of pride for the club. The Arsenal supporters against sexual violence group argued quite vehemently that there was a safeguarding issue here in the example it sets of continuing to have someone in employment who has faced repeated arrests for rape that sends out a terrible message to women.

9:18And, you know, I guess we sort of perhaps would view our own professions if we face these multiple allegations and everyone knew about it. It's hard to envisage a situation where you or I might be continuing to work while these things become known. Well, yeah, and as you mentioned there, Arsenal's women, Champions League winners, held up often as the benchmark Arsenal's women in terms of how a women's football club should be run, the success they've had both filling the stadium, the men's stadium, regularly playing all their domestic fixtures, their league fixtures there as well. And yet the club sends out a message saying it's business as usual when serious sexual assault and rape allegations are made against somebody they work alongside.

10:00It will now stick in the craw for people. you know, Mikel Arteta talking about contract renewals and his wish for the player to stay at the club. But again, it's just such an immensely complicated issue for football and the clubs in general that it's hard to cast any huge judgments until we reach the end of this process. And he will appear in Westminster Magistrates Court on August the 5th, we should say. He denies all charges. Thank you very much for joining us today and taking time out of another big legal case that you're observing there at the High Court. Thanks so much. We know some of these conversations can be really difficult but they are necessary and we appreciate you taking the time to listen.

10:41If you or someone you know has been affected by rape or sexual assault, support is available. You can contact Rape Crisis on 0808 500 2222 or you can go online for confidential help. Next up, we're going to be joined on the Sports Agents by the Secretary of State for Sport, Lisa Nandy. The Sports Agents.

11:05The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

11:12Lisa Nandy, welcome to The Sports Agents. I think the last time I saw you, you were wandering around the corridors of a studio in Paris at the Paralympics. We were both on the last leg and it got me thinking this morning, you must get to do some pretty cool things in this role. Yeah, God, don't remind me about the last leg. I was terrified. The idea of a politician and comedy mixing is a pretty dangerous combination, but it was all right, wasn't it? Well, it's what I do. It's my job. I guess it's not your job, is it your day job? So in terms of the last year and the amazing, you're a sports fan, the amazing things you've been able to do that might at times be a kind of respite and a bit of relief from the day-to-day process.

11:51What's been the highlight sporting wise? Yeah, I think so. I mean, actually, it was probably on that trip. I met Michael Johnson, who I just grew up listening to, watching. That was amazing. I went to Silverstone this weekend and met Nigel Mansell. They took us down to the McLaren garage and said, we've got a guy here who's going to give us a tour. And I said, oh, my expletive, it's Nigel Mansell. And he went, it is Nigel Mansell. Hello. but it's you know one of the great things about spending time around people like him you had the opportunity to have conversations with people like gareth southgate over the last year is that there is there is a lot that you can learn from sport about wider society and we're doing this incredible piece of work at the moment on young men and mental health and we really think that sport is the key for a lot of young men in terms of dealing with what has become a crisis you know the teamwork and the camaraderie, the resilience, the mentoring and coaching that you get through sport.

12:50And that feeling when you walk into a place, whether it's a boxing gym or a football ground, that you belong there. Too many young men are missing that. You're speaking to the converted here on the Sports Agents and Chappas, who sends his apologies for not being here today, and I have discussed many times with various guests the power of sport. We had John McAvoy on, who was a career criminal when he was put away, found rowing and now leads all kinds of incredible expeditions with young men to show them a better way of life. We all know the power of sport. I don't think either of us need to sit here and try and convince the other.

13:20But what there is, is a lack of entry points for young people. You've got obesity increasing, you've got knife crime increasing for the under 16s. And then since 2012, thousands of hours of PE have been cut from the curriculum and there's a drop in PE teachers. They're linked, aren't they, Lisa? Yeah, 100%. I mean, and alongside that for young people, you've got other things that have happened, And, you know, the erosion of all those spaces and places that they could go, like the local youth club. There's parts of the country now where, whether it's in the classroom or in the community, there just is no access for young people at all.

13:54And I sound like a horrible name dropper. But when I was first appointed a year ago, Mo Farah came to see me to campaign for more access for young people to sport, particularly at school. and he pointed to a pair of trainers and said to me this pair of trainers saved my life I've never forgotten it because actually for a lot of young people it can be the difference between make or break and so we're determined to change that we've already launched a review of the curriculum that will report in September one of the explicit aims of that is to increase the amount of sport that young people are able to access the sort of richer broader curriculum that's been lost over the last decade or so but we're rebuilding outside as well so I just recently announced 400 million pounds worth of investment into grassroots sports facilities and one of the things that I'm particularly passionate about and I think you are too Gabby is that part of what we're trying to do with that money is not just build new facilities but adapt existing facilities so that they're far more accessible for girls who too often end up playing very late at night in the slots that are left after the boys teams have taken them they don't have the changing room facilities we're really determined that that's going to change and the facilities is one thing but if there's been a seven percent drop in PE teachers and we know about the drop in the hours of PE that are on the curriculum you need coaches and obviously grassroots coaches who give up their time for nothing are incredible somebody's got to coach them and we know that in terms of obesity if you're leaving primary school and you're already and I think the figure's heading up towards 30 percent of primary school kids are obese by the time they get to big school high school you've almost lost them at that point because those those habits and those practices in their families have not unfortunately affected their outcomes so you've got to get in even earlier haven't you and it is primary school where those healthy habits can start so it just feels like we keep talking about this i've been talking about this for 20 years it feels like and the numbers are getting worse and worse so so you say september is going to be the the outcome of a review how quickly can you affect change and within this cycle can you see your job actually implementing can you implement those hours within the next year yeah so i've got a few thoughts about this but absolutely we're determined to to make a difference in this parliament and i've been working with some really interesting people people like chris boardman who is taking a very different approach to this, thinking about how we use government funding, not just to build grassroots sports facilities, the sort of thing that I've been talking about, which is badly needed in this part of the picture, but also how we do things like work with the Department for Transport to improve public transport.

16:35Because if people are walking to a bus stop in the morning and then getting on the bus to work rather than getting in their car, that makes a major difference. If they're getting on a bike, it makes an even bigger difference. So we're thinking really creatively about how we do this and of course the curriculum is an important part of that. My friend Steph Peacock who is the sports minister was a teacher before she came into parliament and she was telling me that they were given only 30 minutes of training to take PE classes and then were expected to be able to do that. We wouldn't do that with most subjects, we certainly wouldn't do that with something like maths.

17:09We should take PE and sport as seriously as we take those Yeah, because with respect, if you're, you know, if you're then able to go through life as a healthy adult, you are not putting the pressure on the state and the health service that you would be if you weren't. It costs you a lot more per person than if you weren't very good at maths. Right. In terms of, you know, in terms of the quality of teaching that you get at the end of it. Are they undervalued, do you think? I guess that's the nub of this, PE teachers and what they do. Yeah, so I think not just PE teachers, but sport generally is undervalued and underpriced in terms of what it can do for people's lives.

17:45Wes Streeting and I, who's the health secretary, were talking about this the other day. He's just launched his 10 year health plan and we've been working really closely together on it. And he referred to my department as the department for all the things that make life worthwhile. And actually being able to live a longer, healthier life does make life worthwhile. And it is a goal that any government worth its salt should be reaching for. Yeah. And if you look at the Venn diagram of all the other departments, you cross over into so many of those. And he's quite right, isn't he? Because the other part of your job title, culture and media, you know, is very important.

18:19Let's talk a little bit today about the Football Governance Bill. Tell us a bit about, because you hear these phrases, the final stages are being read today in Parliament. We hear last night the Liberal Democrats are trying to look for an amendment to do with free to air Premier League matches, 10 per season. What does this mean to the process and what is happening today? How far away does today, if successful, mean that this bill actually comes into fruition? So this today is potentially the end of a very, very long journey that started a decade ago with the recognition that football couldn't go on as it was.

18:55And Dame Tracey Crouch, she was then a backbench MP, she had been the sports minister, was asked by the last government to do a review of this. She found that we needed a series of things. We needed more financial sustainability throughout the whole pyramid. We needed to put fans back at the heart of the game with more powers over decisions that were made in their clubs. And the third thing that she believed that we needed, and we agree, is a light touch regulator who is there as a backstop. If football can't come to its own agreement, then the regulator is able to step in and take action. And so the last government started the process, they started to put that through Parliament.

19:35It fell before the general election. We promised football fans the length and breadth of this country that we would finally make it a reality. It's been a very difficult process over the last year because for some reason that is still not clear to me, the Conservative Party has decided to now oppose their own piece of legislation. And so we've had to push very hard to get this through Parliament. but all being well You've got a massive majority Today is the end of that journey I mean this is it should be very easy to get anything through Parliament we won't go into kind of how you know how problematic things have been of late but this should be very easy for you to get through what does the Liberal Democrats proposal to make an amendment to this this was part of their manifesto wasn't it that should they have got into power they would have had some free to air Premier League football is that important do you think?

20:24There's a debate to be had around that and of course we want to make sure that people can access live sport. But this bill is too important to be treated like a Christmas tree with every issue hung on it. So you don't feel this amendment won't be successful? They won't? Look, we're not going to support it. We need to get this promise that was made to football fans needs to be delivered. It was made a decade ago and the time is longer due for action. And a lot's happened since then. In the middle of that 10 years, we had the failed Super League attempt and many felt that this bill was even more important at that point in terms of protecting the football pyramid as we know it.

20:59Let's talk about some things that have happened of late then and how they would be affected by the bill. So, for example, multi-ownership, which is becoming more and increasingly more prevalent at the top end of football, along with foreign ownership. And you look at what's happened with Crystal Palace of late, with one of their owners, Texter, also owning football clubs in Europe that now potentially could mean that Palace don't get their place in Europe that they've earned by winning the FA Cup. Would the bill have affected that at all? So the bill is quite tightly drawn. It's not going to solve every challenge in football.

21:32The introduction of a regulator will make a big difference because there'll be power to step in if there's a problem. And we're beefed up the owners and directors test so that you do have to take into account things like, is there proper financial sustainability? Is there a business plan? What it does do is make sure that there is that additional safeguard for fans. There is a growing kind of trend. I mean, there's only two at the moment, but I know that other clubs have looked into this, of selling your women's team, as Chelsea have, and taking away from the men's, Aston Villa as well. And that obviously is related to financial fair play and balancing the books.

22:12And some see those valuations as being very high and taking a lot of debt off the ledger, if you like. So is there anything within the bill that would ensure that those women's clubs are protected going forward? the same scrutiny would apply to whoever's buying them? No, not in the bill as it currently stands. So let me just sort of be really clear about this. The bill applies to men's football because of the longstanding problems in men's football. There was another review, which you'll know about, the Karen Carney review, which looks at women's football. Why is women's football different? Well, Karen recommended in that review that women's football be given the chance to regulate itself.

22:50She didn't rule out the possibility that if it can't regulate itself, it could be brought within the scope of the bill but we accepted that recommendation. I'm struggling to see with regard to say the situation at Chelsea and Aston Villa how that is not very much tied up with men's football and the financial fair play of those clubs. I think you make a fair point and we have debated that through the course of this legislation there are different views. When we introduced the bill we introduced it in the King's speech just after the election we accepted the Carney recommendation that the women's game has the chance to regulate itself.

23:26But we are keeping a very close eye on it. And I think you do raise serious questions that we need to consider about when we think about whether the women's game comes within scope or not. I should say as well that one of the things the regulator will do is establish a state of the game report. And that will be able to look at all factors. We've strengthened that from the previous government so that they'll be able to look at parachute payments as well, which obviously have a major impact on the game. One of the challenges, as you know, in football is that when you have debates, say, between the Premier League and the EFL, often people are using their own version of what is happening in football.

24:01The regulator will be able to establish those facts and then have a much more informed debate and take decisions on that basis. And I know this bill pertains to finances and ownership and related issues. It doesn't relate to a question now I'm going to ask you, but I wonder what your opinion is on whether or not government should get involved and give some kind of clearer guideline to Thomas Partys with those charges kind of over his head. We should say he denies all charges. We won't go into the detail of that, obviously, right now, because he has been formally charged. Where do you sit on this?

24:36Should there be some kind of guideline and should clubs all be adhering to a similar kind of policy? Yeah, so I started this conversation with many clubs in the wake of the allegations about Mohamed El-Fayed, number of historical allegations that surfaced not just in in football but it obviously affected women who'd been in football working in football playing and so on obviously you're right to say that in this case charges have been brought but there's been no verdict so you know make no comment whatsoever about that the case must be allowed to play out but instinctively i think there is a problem in that there aren't minimum standards and there isn't a standard approach and expectations of how clubs will approach this.

25:22I would prefer to see clubs coming together and agreeing a standard approach that makes sure that they are protecting women in that situation. And that is very much a conversation that I'll be having with them. It's not for government to tell clubs what they can and can't do, but there is certainly a role, as I see it, for government ministers, myself and Stephanie Peacock, to be initiating that conversation with clubs and trying to get to a place where women in football know that they are properly protected and supported. There is a particular problem in that there's a power dynamic. So, you know, your football stars are stars and they are very, very highly paid.

26:02They're prioritised in terms of they're a major asset to the club, a financial asset, as well as an asset on the pitch. And so there is a power imbalance there that means that there have to be proper standards and there have to be high expectations of how those things are managed. You can't just rely on people who are much more junior, who have less economic value to the institution, being the people who come forward and try and make change. So that's why I think there is a real role for government here to convene that and to try and ensure that that action is taken. And it's certainly something that we, as a government, are determined to do.

26:42Emma Raducano's stalker applied for tickets to Wimbledon and she has talked about how there needs to be something in place that can stop somebody like that potentially affecting her sporting life let alone her happiness well-being and and sense of security Katie Bolter has talked about the shocking abuse she's received online we had Sabrina Sinner talking about the stalking that she had a young athlete had an online stalker affecting her and and threatening her and her family. What more can government do to protect young athletes? Because this does seem, Lisa, to be an insidious problem with young female athletes.