Ellie Kildunne | "I've won the World Cup, what now?"

0:02Ellie Kildunne:This is a Global Player original podcast. Everyone wants to be the first team to beat the world champions. Everyone's got that opportunity every time we play. Maybe they did want to play rugby but they couldn't play rugby. I'm going to get emotional again. At the end of my job title is professional rugby player, not like influencer. I'm at the petrol station and a police officer turns around and he says, are you Ellie Kildun? And I thought, oh God, yeah, is it a tax? This is like England's men winning the football World Cup in the summer, right? And then Thomas Tuchel sits down and Harry Kane kind of tattoos his arm.

0:36And I just, I don't see that happening. I just want to play World Cup, World Cup, World Cup.

0:42Ellie Kildunne:Nothing in between, you just go back into another one. Everyone's just looking around like, we're about to do this. All these women never thought this could happen. Like Ellie's from Yorkshire, I'm from the south coast. We probably never would have met if we didn't have rugby. And now we're cowboys. And now we're cowboys.

1:02Welcome to the Sports Agents. As you can see with two giant red roses behind me here, we are at Penny Hill Park. This is where England based themselves in the build-up to Six Nations and big summer tours, both the men's and women's set up. But right now, of course, it is the women, because the women's Six Nations is upon us. And this England team arrived here off the back of that incredibly successful World Cup, not just on the pitch, but off it. Things have changed. They have a target on their back. Never have they been the team that everybody wants to beat more. And of course there's a few new faces, a few of the players have gone off to have babies, there's a new captain in Meg Jones as well and life has changed for a lot of these players.

1:38So we're going to sit down with former World Player of the Year Ellie Kildun and her tri-scoring team mate Jess Breach to talk about those changes and how excited they are for the Six Nations to come. Welcome to the Sports Agents.

1:59The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. So I've just come into a room here. We're about to interview the girls, Ellie and Jess. But on the way up here, walking through Pennyhill Park, I've bumped into the great and good, I think, of the Red Roses. Of course, Emily Scarrett, who's been on The Sports Agents, has now transferred to the coaching staff here. and I saw Mitch, John Mitchell, head coach, looking incredibly relaxed. Marley Packer, who we talked about the young faces in this squad. Well, she's definitely the other end of the spectrum, isn't she? And the experience she has, she's still here imparting all of that.

2:35So Meg Jones, the new captain as well, just had a little chat with her talking about the responsibility. She said, I can't swear anymore. We'll see if that one actually comes off. But it feels quite exciting here. It feels like they're all kind of building up to another special tournament, but they're only two days into this camp. So we'll get a real early flavour of how things are going and how they're all blending. So next up, I'm sitting down with former World Player of the Year Ellie Kildun and her World Cup winning team mate Jess Breach.

3:06Jess, Ellie, welcome to the Sports Agents. Here we are, I think day two of camp, kind of getting back into wearing the red rose. It's been over six months now since you won the World Cup and just before you came in. And she wasn't late. She wasn't. Jess, no, even though you predicted she'd be bang on time. She was actually early. Yeah, she gave you on time, not late. It feels in some ways like two minutes since that day of the final. And yet so much has happened since. And Jess was just saying there how hard it was getting back into rugby, actually, after that. Did you have a similar feeling, Ellie?

3:38Ellie Kildunne:I mean, we had a couple of weeks off. It's not really off because obviously there's media duties. We want to carry the momentum of winning the World Cup into the wider groups of the next generation and stuff. We like to commit to things like that. I think then people took the time to go away on holiday and actually celebrate. But as soon as you got back in England, it was back in your club shirts, training and getting the next job done. Which I think for me was difficult emotionally more than anything. My body actually felt fine doing it. Mentally, I felt fine. but I think emotionally it's really hard to find what's the next thing after you live out a dream that you've been preparing for for so, so long.

4:25Ellie Kildunne:It wasn't just during the World Cup, it was years of it and you've almost got to reinvent yourself in that space to find out what it is that you want because everyone wants to win. So it can't be as simple as that. But yeah, it's taken a bit of time and we had a camp a few months ago now where we all just sat in the room and were really honest with each other about the way that we're feeling. And for me, that was like a huge fix because suddenly I could relate to people. And I think it's helped the group coming into Six Nations as well. Did you, Jess, you obviously just before we started recording, you were saying similar.

4:56Did you have that sense of relief that everybody else was feeling the same as you did? Yeah, definitely. I think I knew everyone was in the same boat. Like, I think it's always going to be tough going back into your Prem team after being with your country for X amount of time. like you've shared loads of memories you've made those memories you've been really successful so I think yeah that first camp in January I think Mitch was really good in that and he was like I know you're not all at the start line yet but I need you at the start line come like this camp and I need you all kind of ready and I think for us to all be in a similar position you didn't feel isolated you could have similar conversations with people and be like oh yeah I've experienced that too which I think was refreshing and you didn't feel alone I think it's also because

5:37Ellie Kildunne:everyone expects like if you win everything's happy and it was everything's been great but you don't get asked like are you okay because you expected to be okay because you won um i think it's that like deeper feeling that we're on top of the world yes there's no doubt about it but life has changed like within the rugby circle outside of it you're going into a new norm of not being just down the corridor from some of your best mates and you're with different teams it's a new schedule you're institutionalized in a way when you're in that setup for you know a couple of months together aren't you yeah every single thing you do is with that group and I was fortunate to see the film last week England meet England and you get a taste of that there right down to the kind of you know the scrapbook making and the hobbies that you do together then suddenly you've got to go home on your own it was the weirdest thing that first night back I was like right the silence is deafening and not having a roomie like obviously I have my boyfriend but like it's so different like and like i have to do my own washing have to do my own like cooking cleaning like you obviously we're very privileged in in that scenario that you're in that that position but we don't expect no no no no yeah but you just miss it when you're at home and it's almost like you're waiting for that routine i think that's what it is is that we know what time lunch is yeah we know what time we've got to wake up but then you go home and suddenly that routine that timetable is out the window and it's all just when you want to wake up when you want to eat and it's like you're kind of looking for direction and then you go back to the club obviously where there'll be players there who maybe didn't make a world cup squad who you know are really keen to kind of like prove themselves domestically and get you know get themselves into that shirt and and you're a little bit jaded and tired so that dynamic must be a bit weird as well.

7:23Ellie Kildunne:Yeah I think the one of the things I found quite hard going in and I think it was the anticipation of it because once I got to Quinns it felt fine but the anticipation that the Prem is full of our internationals from all around the world you know it's there's not I don't think there's one team that it's just all English players so knowing that we've done this fantastic thing but also we're sharing a team we're sharing like a changing room with girls that were nearly there Sophie de Goody yeah it could have been kind of dirty so you've kind of got to read the room and people's emotions that yes you want to celebrate it yes you want to champion it we hope that it's not a once in a lifetime opportunity but it would be seen on paper to be something like that but also understand the emotions and feelings of your teammates because ultimately you've got to in a couple weeks time play with them so I think that was quite difficult like you don't want to dampen your bonfire and you want to celebrate it and feel great, but you also have to, you know, manage the emotions of other people as well and not flaunt it.

8:30Well, let's talk about some of the positives, right? Because I feel like we've just kind of gone, oh, it was really hard.

8:34Ellie Kildunne:It was really hard when the World Cup. And I spoke to Meg the other night at the premiere of the film and she said how busy she is and I said it's getting that balance, isn't it, where you're going to have loads of commercial opportunities and things that are exciting away from rugby because suddenly the world knows who you are, but you've still got the main thing is the main thing and and you can completely understand you are in a very different position to any other England women's team before so how how do you do that how do you balance Jess what you should be doing to capitalize on this moment and what you need to be doing to be a great rugby player I think it's just prioritizing like my priority is rugby and like I have to put myself in the best position to get selected at the weekend so like for me Tuesdays and Thursdays like out out of question like I wouldn't do anything on those days because they're the days we train at club and then obviously at the weekend um and then anything else is like free will for like people to kind of chip in um have me available um but for me to have those opportunities is for me to perform on the pitch so everything goes back to the pitch have to be performing have to really be in an england shirt to be shown to the world um so if i'm not doing that then i'm not going to get those opportunities um and at the end of my job title is professional rugby player not like influencer or like commercial brand person like so I think for me that's what's really important and like I love playing rugby and like whatever comes with it is just like an added bonus like I didn't think of the added bonuses before the love of rugby if that makes sense yeah you were already doing quite a lot before because obviously you're world player of the year and probably kind of transcended the team a bit last year the cowboy hat all that kind of thing outside of rugby people started to know who you were has anything changed for you in terms of people recognizing you on the street and more than they did before yeah um I think it's great that we've now become really visible to everyone it's not just the the female rugby fans it's kind of broadened um for everyone I honestly think if I didn't have the stupid hair that I've got people wouldn't notice me as much but yeah I mean every day there'll be someone that you know recognizes me or they'll ask me for a photo or something and and it can be random it can be on the train like Meg was saying um at the premiere or it can be in the petrol station um and for me I think it's great and I kind of sometimes have to remind myself of that that you know this no one knew that this would happen that this would you can kind of think or imagine what it could be like um but i then strip it back and all these people are inspired by what we did at the red roses during the world cup and and before and now they just want to tell us and they just want to want to let what's the wildest thing that's happened to you ellie or in terms of people just since since that final yeah there's been honestly there's been loads it's it's there's a bit of a smile flash across your face there yeah no there has been a few it's just when And I don't really, I'm not ready for it.

11:33Ellie Kildunne:So let's say I'm at the petrol station and a police officer turns around and he says, are you LA killed on? And I thought, oh God, yeah, is it the tax? But he just wanted to say well done. Or it can be like the bin man just calling out the window. I was actually driving the other day and this man started hanging out the window pointing at me. And I was just behind him saying, light's gone to green. I didn't go. but I think like more than anything it's not the the recognizing and stuff like that I think that comes with it but it is hard getting the balance right because you have to obviously have rugby playing first and that's always number one agree with everything that Jess said then also you you're tied with Bransley and ambassador for the game to grow it in different spaces as well and getting that time right but also then having that sliver for yourself or for your family or for your friends I think that's the bit that it's not just two different things we're talking about and I'm learning I think I'm getting it wrong at times but that will make me get it right and I think accepting the fact that I'm not going to be perfect with it and I will learn on the way has been probably my biggest blessing and just like giving myself that grace to work it out.

12:51So here you are at Pennyhill Park ready for another campaign with a big target on your back as I said in the introduction, because, you know, you are the world champion. So every one of those other teams is going to want more than ever to beat you. And there's some faces who've gone away for really lovely reasons to have babies and obviously a new captain in Meg Jones and seven uncapped players in this squad as well. Is that quite good, Jess, to give you a bit of a, not that you need a kick at the backside at all, but when you've got, you know, uncapped players around you, you just want to raise your game a little bit.

13:20I think so. I think it's really exciting. like Mitch has said we're at like zero like this is a new start for kind of like everyone and I think that's really nice and it's refreshing that he's had that mindset as well as us like we're all excited to get into a new campaign to show I guess the world what we've been doing or learning since like we lifted the trophy at Allianz Stadium and you know today they they announced that 70 ,000 tickets have been sold and like I think if we can sell another 12 ,000 and get a record I just think that would be amazing and it would show how much the world cup has done for us but i think the seven new caps like they're all young they're like 20 or 21 i'm like oh my god i actually feel so old and i'm not even in my 30s who's impressed you in training so far we've only actually today has been the only day that we've had proper rugby so i think no one knows no one knows we've changed a

14:07Ellie Kildunne:lot so it's not like we know and we know yeah no one has a clue what we're doing right okay so it's a lot of learning are we going to see a different style to this maybe yeah maybe i think it's time center yeah you know we've we've said a lot that we want to keep on being the best in the world and if you stay being comfortable then someone's going to catch up to you so um it's on us to find new ways to to win the game that people have not seen before um it's a perfect time as well like it's a new cycle four years like you know we've um we're really fortunate enough to have like lou lou meadows with us in the world cup and now we've got scuzzy and i just think like that's exciting as well it's fresh it's new um how is she managing to kind of like transfer to the coach's table you know and not and not kind of go over and sit with you or is she just gradually doing we don't really have that at the red roses that's one of our big like culture principles is that we have a very next seat policy at like dinner lunch breakfast so you just kind of take the next seat that's available so you could be the only one actually on the staff table but like that's fine so there's no hierarchy no the staff and we've been in the place before where it did feel like the staff and then the players.

15:18Ellie Kildunne:But since Mitch has come in, it's very much felt like everyone's on the same level. Like we're all teammates, whether you are the head coach, you're the analysis and you're a player, everyone's teammates because we're all striving for the same thing. It came across actually in the film, more than even just my meetings with him kind of pitch side, how impressive he is in that group because you're a load of strong women with loud voices. You've all got a lot to say. You're all very driven. And yet he managed to sprinkle something in that group to just make things, you talk about the guiding principles and the values and he talks about that as well.

15:57But that's easier said than done, isn't it? You can say these are our values. You have to live those values and he has to lead with those values.

16:04Ellie Kildunne:Yeah, I think you've got to believe in what someone's saying to really catch on with it. and I think it's really easy to chuck buzzwords out there and say that's what we're going to live by, that's what we're going to do but it's something about Mitch that you can see in his eye that he really means what he's saying and you can almost feel the energy coming off of him that suddenly you're just saying yeah no I believe in what Mitch is saying he could be saying anything but I think that's what one passion does but also honesty and he's been so honest with us as a group that we do feel like we can trust anything that he's going to say and that he has got our backs as people before players because, yes, we are players for the RFU and there's a number on your back, but there's so much more to players that people don't see.

16:53Ellie Kildunne:I hope the documentary shows a sliver of it, but to be treated as a person, as a human being for who you are, really gets people alongside and we can all then strive for the same goal at the end of the day. And of course he must trust you, Ellie, because he let you tattoo him. I don't know if he trusts me or if he had a few too many beers, but yeah, I gave him a tattoo after the World Cup final and I think that's the same thing. I mean, to put this in context, right, this is like England's men winning the Football World Cup in the summer, right? And then Thomas Tuchel sits down and Harry Kane kind of tattoos his arm.

17:27And I just, I don't see that happening.

17:29Ellie Kildunne:That's the beauty that we've got in the Red Roses, really. I can't speak on other teams, but just, you know, we're serious when we're on pitch, but we are so authentically ourselves away from it that you can have fun with what you do and the time that you spend in camp, it's not all regimented. Yes, we all know that we're driving towards something brilliant, but you've got to be able to let your hair down. And I was giving a bit of tongue-in-cheek when I said, oh, yeah, I'll tattoo you, because I tattooed a few of the girls a couple months before. Again, I didn't know what I was doing. I just got the gun off of Amazon,£20, and I was like, let's do it.

18:09Ellie Kildunne:We just need something to do. From a health and safety point of view. Oh, let me tell you, okay. So we've got a full line, haven't we? We've got a line. So obviously we're in camp. We've got physios and doctors. So if anything did go wrong, we could. We could. But nothing happens. They didn't know it was going on, but yeah. But anyway, so before the shop opens... The tattoo parlour. Some people run down to the physio room and you've got to get some latex gloves, obviously, so you're not getting dirty fingers. Some Vaseline. And hand sanitiser. Yeah, and some hand sanitiser. So obviously, hand sanitise the area so that it's clean.

18:44Ellie Kildunne:Then put the Vaseline on. That was done by, we worked out by trial and error. Yeah, that was trial. Meg was the dummy run. But you need it to be lubricated on the area. Is there something quite dodgy on Meg's body now? It's just got a cross. It looks quite good. Yeah, it's quite cute. But when I first said, Meg, it's bleeding a lot. I don't know why it's bleeding. And then we all remembered, oh, you get like Vaseline on it. So someone ran down, got it. Jessie, you're the wiper most of the time. So like when there is blood trickling down the leg, she's just going to do it. Teamwork. Yeah, it was.

19:13Someone was holding a torch so Ellie could see. It was good.

19:16Ellie Kildunne:And as long as I get hyped up, I'm all right. Yeah. Everyone hypes me up when it's like a good line. Everyone's like, oh, good line, good line. And it's just like, that's not even the start of what I've done. You did then do Kelsey Clifford and she wanted like a little camera and it was honestly so tiny. And then after that, you're like, I'm done. Because it wasn't that, it was, it was all right, wasn't it? Yeah, it was like a kid. But it was hard. It was hard. Okay. Bear in mind, I didn't do art at school or anything. It was just an idea. There's always this kind of thing about you that you're an artist.

19:43Ellie Kildunne:Yeah, no, everyone thinks I am. But is that just urban myth? Fake it till you make it. Just say I am since someone gets on the tattoo table. But anyway, so we were doing the tattoos first time around. and Meg had said can I have an ex and I was like yep can do that um yeah an ex and oh Alex Matthew said can I have a smiley face on the bottom of a toe and there was a line of a few people one of the girls wanted a cap number yeah Sophie Bridger which was the best tattoo I've ever done ever ever done it was very good um and then I was like okay we're done and Wes was like now I think can you can you do a camera for me i thought would you know wes a camera i've just done numbers and lines and you want me to do a camera on you so anyway she's got this rubbish little camera on her ankle but she likes the story yeah because the other thing was that um in the doc was med obviously was getting a tattoo at a if you don't mind me saying professional parlor um after every match in the world cup um and unbeknown to quite a few of us in that room on the night but not you guys I imagine she was announced then as the captain um just after the film was was shown um how I mean it's early days obviously has she changed at all I actually said it to her last night she's my roommate as well that Meg's always been a leader whether you're captain vice captain she's always got that inside her and has led us through the world cup and even before as well just by being authentically herself.

21:16Ellie Kildunne:And the same thing as what I was saying about Mitch, it's something or I and the passion in her voice that makes you just, you want to do anything that she's saying. But I said to her last night, I said, whatever you do, don't change. You don't have to be anyone other than yourself because the reason that you're in this position is because you're you. And she's not changing. We played nonchalant before training today. Yesterday we had more meetings and at the end of the day she was like, oh god I'm exhausted yeah she was doing work and I came back I was like you're all right I was like just relax I said it will come natural like all these like meetings and like speaking more but like I think also she'll learn to like kind of delegate like people will really step up in in different ways that like aren't her like it's clear from what she said the other night that you're her sounding board because her final words before the world cup final obviously you know she didn't kind of tell exactly what they were but she ran it all past you and you were the kind of editor-in-chief yeah I mean if anyone's gonna lose focus in a chat it's probably gonna be me so I'm like saying it from the bottom line yeah you've probably lost me there so if you've lost me you probably haven't lost anyone else but I need to be engaged um but yeah she just runs through like what she's saying like when to go up an octave or when when to like look at people in the eyes um and she'll just she'll just run it through i think it's more for her benefit than anything else um was it a kind of hairs on the back of the neck it was the best thing i've ever heard yeah i can't remember can you give us any flavor of what she said to you i actually can't remember she'll have it in a notepad somewhere it's also i do think it's on the o2 inside line behind the scene of the final i think there's snippets of it but it's just how it's how she how she says it how passionate but how like calm it also is which i think the to get that balance right is like phenomenal like i think a lot of people would mistake anger and passion and pressure coming from that speech but actually like she's so level-headed and actually really motivates everyone everyone's just looking around like we're about to do this i also think part of it is that i we say a lot about bond being like one of our values within um the group and knowing about other people's stories as well as being able to share your own honestly and obviously everything that Meg's gone through over the past couple of years and still to play the way that she plays hold herself the way that she holds herself when she's speaking I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm doing this for you right now like everyone will have a different way of seeing it but because you know Meg behind closed doors you don't see that as aggression you see that as motivation because if Meg's saying that we're doing it because that's that's the culture that we've got in the team is that we know each other so well that if someone's saying something you're like I want to do it for them I want to do it for them and you find different people to do be able to do it for and it ends up being the whole team at the end of the day um but that's why when she speaks everyone's just if you're gonna if you're gonna put this much energy and we're gonna put this much energy and it's all brought in.

24:20Ellie Kildunne:More from Ellie and Jess after the break. The Sports Agents.

24:27The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Jess, you mentioned there, I mean, those ticket sales for that opening game against Ireland, they've gone up, I think, about 10 ,000 in the last couple of weeks, haven't they, to 70? There's no reason to think it won't be a sellout the way that they're going. That is the answer to this question, really, is what's the legacy? That's one thing, isn't it? More people coming to watch the Red Roses. What are the other things that you want to see over this next cycle that will tell you at the next World Cup that that wasn't just a brilliant day in the end of a great three years together, but actually you've made real change?

25:00I think there was another stat that's come out that's like 27 million people, women have participated in sport or something. And the increase from since the World Cup has like been a majority of that. So I think that's also fantastic. I think I just personally want to see more people participate in sport. I think it's a healthy lifestyle but also like you make memories and connections and bonds with people like I would never like Ellie's from Yorkshire I'm from like the south coast like we probably never would have met if we didn't have rugby and now we're cowboys now we're like best friends like travel the world together and I think like that's what I love about the sport and then I think just like crowds like get behind us if you don't want to participate like it's so entertaining like it's such a family affair you're so accessible at the moment I don't mean that in But you're at the matches.

25:49You are there for your fans, aren't you? They can talk to you. You're real. Is that going to be difficult to retain?

25:56Ellie Kildunne:No, I don't think it is. I think we're very much aware. And during the World Cup, it was a real test because obviously suddenly there's way more people in the crowd. And, you know, we know that we're looked after. So, for example, someone might come up to me and say, how long do you need? And I'll say seven minutes. And then someone will come over and say, Ellie's got media now. She's got to go. Because it can be overwhelming at times. And I think the most important thing to all of us is that we just get to see our family. As soon as you see your family, fine, I can go see other people. But I don't think it will be hard to maintain that.

26:32Ellie Kildunne:Because seeing the looks on these kids' faces that you've walked past them fuels you to... It reminds you as well, like, what we're actually doing isn't just running with a rugby ball. It's way bigger than what we can ever imagine. but that I think is our USP as well I think you've got to see it to believe it and these kids, it's not even kids anymore it's like adults one of the things you wouldn't necessarily have had in the moment as the match finished, it was looking round and seeing women kind of my age who maybe they did want to play rugby but they couldn't play rugby I'm going to get emotional again and it was just so joyous I was looking at Maggie Alfonso in tears and thinking all these women never thought this could happen you know and this stadium that they've seen men play in for so many years is full and it wasn't just full of women that you know there were families there were men there but it was knowing that those women especially those who were wearing the shirt were just so proud of you and you were standing on their shoulders as well yeah and I also think that I always say that I don't want to inspire you to play rugby I want to inspire you to do something even though you've been told that you can't and that can be in business that can be in life that can be in a sport that you're playing whatever it may be is that sod everyone that says that you can't do something if you really believe in here that you can do it there's nothing that's stopping you and that's what I hope the world cup did that people don't go I missed my chance no take inspiration by what we've done and go do whatever you want in life it's so short and you've got to do it happy you've got to make decisions that you know will carry you forward and that will for failure and I remember saying before the world cup I put it on a little post-it note that as a manifestation I want to win the world cup and win it happy and there's no point winning it if that happiness piece didn't come alongside it and I couldn't have been happier like the the team that were part of the sellout crowds whatever it might have been I just came away thinking there's nothing that could ever top this and I'm inspired I was like the whistle went and I was like I'm so inspired by that girl over there and that girl over there was Jess Breach I was so happy for my team like I was sat in the crowd and how powerful that inspiration is is that even on pitch even though you've got the shirt on you still feel that inspiration God knows how it felt for those sat in the crowd okay so we are fully inspired for the next four years well three and a half now isn't that crazy sorry isn't that crazy when people say four years I'm like oh it's not even yeah it's not even four years that's mental it's exciting as well i i just want to play world cup world cup nothing in between you just go back into another one guys it's been great chatting today and uh hearing that you are ready for action ready to get going again another six nations campaign before i leave you um who are you most worried about which country do you think um is going to be the one or are going to be the one that could push england no i'm not worried no i'm not worried I don't think there's any point being worried.

29:31Ellie Kildunne:It's typical. I'm not giving you a media answer where you're like, oh, just focus on yourself. But we know that we've got the target. Everyone wants to be the first team to beat the world champions. Everyone's got that opportunity. Every time we play, you've got an opportunity to beat us. So there's nothing to be worried about. We've just got to, like I said, we've got a few things that we're altering and changing and evolving. Once that comes together, we'll work it out. and there's nothing that can stop us. So I am not worried at all. But I think that's exciting because it means that every team is going to bring it to us.

30:04Every game is going to be exciting and it could be nail biters, but I think that's what makes rugby so fun and cool. And just a quick line on Abby and Zoe and the babies that are going to be born in the next few months. And Mitch had a lovely line, said they'll make great mothers. That is also very inspiring, isn't it? because it's only really in the last 10, 20 years we've seen women come back after babies in lots of other sports. So that must be wonderful to be around that and know that's a possibility.

30:33Ellie Kildunne:Yeah, 100%. Knowing it's a possibility that you've got someone that you can turn to and ask the questions when the time does come. Obviously, not thinking about having a baby anytime soon. No big reveal now. But you know that you can ask somebody and that you're supported by the group. It's not a taboo anymore. It's something that's celebrated. and why shouldn't it be celebrated? Can't wait for the crash. Yeah, literally. We love it. We all become aunties. When Hallie comes in and Oliver and our physios have kids, everyone's like, I'll do that, I'll do that. And I think it's really sweet. And it makes you also switch off from rugby, which I think is quite nice because when you're in this environment and you can't go home, actually having that external factor in, which is a child that's three and has no idea what's going on, I think that's really refreshing.