Eubank v Benn 2: Why risk it?

10:23Ade Oladipo:Well, that's kind of what led to the big split between them, wasn't it? And they'd already had that, but he was so disappointed, his father. So disappointed.

10:30Mark:And to be fair, I've sat down with Chris Eubank Jr. And I've worked a few of his fights and it's something he wouldn't do. But in a weird way, it was wonderful. I weirdly, Robert Smith won't agree with me, but I loved it. I loved it because it then transcended to the casual fans. It lit my sister called me and immediately asked for tickets. I was like, OK, so it's crossed over to you as well now. So, yeah, the build up to the first one was, it had everything. It had Eubanks Senior not wanting to be a part of it. It had the weight issue, the issue prior with the drug issue with Conor Benn. So I think the first fight had everything.

11:05Mark:This fight doesn't have those same problems.

11:07Gabby:But the, I suppose, Adi, that the first fight now sells this one, doesn't it? Which is more on the boxing than the pantomime.

11:18Mark:Yeah, I've said to so many people, this isn't sort of Eubank Ben 2. This is almost round 13. This is a continuation of that first fight. So if you want to sell people about this one, just play the first fight. And this is what this is. This is a boxing match. Yes, it has the Rocky-like story. But ultimately, it's a boxing match between, I think now, two good boxers. We always knew Eubank Jr. was a good boxer. He's proven that. But there were a lot of question marks about Conor Ben. And I think Conor's answered those questions based on what he did in those 12 rounds of the first fight. So, yeah, I agree.

11:50Mark:I think you are selling the second fight off the first fight and you don't necessarily need all the commotion.

11:55Ade Oladipo:What this fight does have, though, Robert, is the worries and concerns that are being expressed largely actually through the father, through Chris Eubank himself, about how dangerous it is because of the dispensation that's given for his son to fight below his weight and to enter the fight dehydrated. We know about what happened with him after that fight now. We've seen it in the documentary, which was aired for the first time last night, the ambulance taking him away, that he spent a couple of days in hospital. And so the question has to be asked kind of morally and philosophically, why does this fight need to happen?

12:30Robert Smith:Well, Gabby, we all know boxing is a dangerous sport and the Boxing Board of Control tried to make it as safe as possible with all the procedures we have in place, check weights, etc. But there's nothing different between boxers coming up in weight and boxers losing weight. Christopher is a middleweight and everybody talks about him struggling to make weight the problem Christopher has he's a big middleweight and a small super middleweight he's caught in the middle and therefore he has to make compensation with regard to it it's nothing new people have done it many many times we do check weights on them we're very satisfied with the check weights etc if he does things properly and his trainers do things properly he'll be fine but as we know it was a tough fight last time tougher than I think most people thought and maybe what he thought as well and going to hospital is a precaution.

13:13Ade Oladipo:But we heard he was touch and go he was touch and go in that ambulance.

13:17Robert Smith:I think that's an emotional that's an emotional father speaking if you speak to our doctors etc for the reports we had it wasn't touch and go he was dehydrated as most boxers are after a contest he was very tired in a very grueling contest and we did the right thing by taking him to hospital to be rehydrated and to be checked by the doctors and that's what we do.

13:36Gabby:Are there more checks you talk about you know since time began or since boxing began you know fighters grew up in weight and down in weight do you have more checks in place for cutting weight than putting it on because losing weight is more dangerous I'm guessing no we have a we have a check weight system with regard to any

13:56Robert Smith:championship contest that takes place or any other contest we want to so when a contest is announced we check a weight we do a weight on a boxer and then leading up to that contest each boxer's check to make sure they're not dramatically losing weight to try to make weight etc so the check weights have been done this week we're all satisfied with everybody we're happy they've done the job properly as i say they've got professional trainers with them and they should know what they're doing they know them better than we are but we also in these cases with christopher for sure he's been doing this for a long time and we can go back on his previous check weights to make sure that he's not doing anything dramatic and he's not as i say everybody's making a big thing about the weight, but he's a middleweight.

14:33Robert Smith:He's a big middleweight and he's a middleweight. When he moves up, there's not a problem.

14:37Ade Oladipo:I heard Eddie Hearn talking earlier today, saying that actually Connor Benn, you know, putting on weight, he felt that was more dangerous, you know, but actually there is something a little bit different, isn't there? If I'm misunderstanding this, then please do correct me that there is a special clause in this. He wasn't allowed to rehydrate. So he was dehydrating to get to his weight, but there's a special clause here that isn't always invoked?

15:00Robert Smith:No, it's quite common actually to have a second day weigh-in. People call it rehydration, but it's a second day weigh-in. There's a sanctioning body called the International Boxing Federation as part of their rules. It's not unusual and they have a limit of 10 pounds depending on the weight category actually. It goes up the heavier you get. And I can say to you as an ex-professional boxer and somebody who's been in the business, anybody puts on more than 10 pounds from the official weigh-in, it's just carrying excess luggage and it's not doing you any good whatsoever and last time we did the check weights that the second day weigh-in they were both within that limit there's not a problem chris made it very very easily um and so we don't have a concern with that and it's not unusual which is quite

15:39Mark:common within the sport it is common he is correct what robert smith says there but there's almost this chris struggles at this stage he's 36 him coming down to 160 pounds i mean cutting weight for any fight is tough. But at 36, cutting weight to 160 pounds is very, very tough. It's not going to be easy for him to do. What you then want him to allow him to do, or at least allow him to be able to do, is then put on as much weight as possible. So if you've now struggled to make 160, okay, rehydrate to whatever you want because you've now depleted your body of everything. And I think the issue Chris Senior has is that isn't being allowed or afforded to his son.

16:18Mark:They've put this 10 pound cap. I think that's the issue that Chris has. Yes, Robert Smith is correct, but allow him to go beyond the 170. Allow him to go to whatever he wants to go to. And if it is excess luggage, so be it. It's his luggage to carry. It's his luggage to carry, exactly.

16:34Gabby:So, Andy, how dangerous would that be the other way, though, in terms of then the weight that he put on and his size? This is the issue.

16:40Mark:This is why, I mean, this is why there had to be some sort of, I guess, leeway for both in order to make this fight happen. Realistically, one's a 147 guy, a welterweight, one's a middleweight. How are we going to make this fight? fair. Even on the night, you could see the size difference between Conor Benn and Chris Eubank Jr. Chris is so much bigger. So the only way you could do this is by saying, Chris, okay, you can't be super big. There has to be a limit on it. So that's why they've done this and that's why this is the only reason this fight could happen. If they allowed Chris to be as big as he wanted to be, I think people would see that this is wrong and ultimately Conor's too small.

17:16Gabby:Is there, Robert, there is a desperation to make this work because of their two

17:23Robert Smith:surnames yeah absolutely i think for the first fight for sure i think for the second fight possibly not because the first fight was a better fight than i think anybody anticipated so therefore people want to see it again but i think for the first fight yeah absolutely i mean i understand what ed is saying there but this is not the first contest ever that's taken place where a boxer has moved up from uh welterweight say to middleweight etc i mean i've been in the business a long long time unfortunately i remember it very very well we didn't have checkweight procedures in this place, those things.

17:51Robert Smith:This is a private agreement between them all. And we're happy for that to happen. We're not part of it. That's what they want to do. And if it works, works for them. And to be honest with you, I think, as I say, we may disagree, but somebody puts on as much work as they want to. As an ex-professional boxer, I can tell you that it's not very good walking into a ring when you're floating around with a load of liquid in you. You know, you've got to be ready to box. And anything over 10 pounds, I believe, is too much. And our doctors believe that as well. And they're more important than anybody else thinks.

18:19Robert Smith:So, It's all been agreed. Everybody's happy with it. Mr. Eubank didn't have to agree to it. He agreed to it for the contest to happen. And as long as we monitor it correctly, we're doing the best we can. I mean, we mustn't forget. I mean, this is a tough sport and therefore we're doing everything we can to make sure it's as safe as possible. But ultimately, that's his decision to make that decision.

18:38Ade Oladipo:Just kind of extending on what Mark said there, though, Robert, if you have weight divisions in a sport, there's a reason for that, isn't there? And these circumstances to allow what I guess in Chris Eubank senior mind is that the circus goes on and he feels he clearly has been expressing it this week, hasn't he? He feels that there is no need for this to happen again. And maybe there wouldn't be a need for this to happen again if there were other fights that were just as attractive. You know, and we've just heard in the last 24 hours that AJ is considering a Jake Paul contest, which would kind of point to some kind of vacuum in terms of really big get the bums on seats inside the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium style fights at the moment.

19:19Mark:I do agree. I do think that there is a want for these big WrestleMania type fights and anything goes in terms of making them. But we did see recently one between Terence Crawford and Canelo, where Terence Crawford, the smaller guy, jumped up and won. and no one made an issue about him jumping up a couple of weight classes, which he did in order to fight Canelo. And that was two elite fighters going at each other. But there is a want now, it seems, to if a fight can be made, it will be made regardless of whether or not it should happen or not.

19:54Robert Smith:No, I agree. I agree fully. I mean, you know, we talk about these type of matches with AJ and Paul. I mean, totally against it, to be honest. I don't understand the reason why AJ would want to do it. Will you sanction that fight? I can honestly say we haven't had any conversation. So you wouldn't sanction that fight? We haven't had any conversation with anybody, and I'd find it extremely surprising if the board agreed for that to happen in this country. I can't see it happening here. But it's not good. I just don't understand the reason why they want to do it. Yes, we do, Robert. Money, money, money.

20:23Gabby:Ultimately, it's money. Money, yeah, money, yeah. Does your heart sink when you hear that because you know what's coming down the line for you as a board of control?

20:32Robert Smith:Mark, I used to have black hair. Look at me now, for Christ's sake. Everything makes my heart sense sometimes are the things I hear. So, yes, I've heard that this morning. I heard it last night, heard it this morning, and it just makes you think what's coming next week, let's get the weekend out of the way, what's coming next week. But no, personally, I don't see any reason for it other than money. It's a different society now than it used to be.

20:53Gabby:And, you know, we've had this debate on this podcast before, and I get that different generations might want different things. And we also talk many times about one sport can cater to different audiences with different events. And I don't have a problem with that when you know what you are going into. But there is, Adi, there is a problem with it when it's dangerous. And there is a problem with it when, you know, you put, well, you look at these two and the rumours are this. And you would think, my God, on paper, that looks dangerous.

21:31Mark:Yeah, this is in a completely different sort of separate area. This is dangerous and I agree. This is Anthony Joshua, who's a former unified heavyweight champion of the world, Olympic gold medalist. I think still one of the best boxers in the world in his division, taken on a novice. If Jay Paul was to fight over here in his weight, he wouldn't be an area level champion. So you've got a guy that I think in Asia is a top five heavyweight fighting an area level champion. and there's probably around 60 pounds difference. And it isn't 60 pounds of fat, it's 60 pounds of solid muscle between the two.

22:08Mark:If this is a real fight, an inverted commas, real fight, Anthony Joshua should be able to stop Jake Paul in a round. And that's what makes it dangerous. And I've been to the last 10 or 15 Anthony Joshua fights. He hits hard, he hits like a truck. Jake Paul doesn't. And Jake Paul's never been in the ring with someone like an Anthony Joshua. He was supposed to fight Javante Davis. he's gone from fighting Javante Davis who weighs 160 pounds to AJ who weighs 260. So yeah, this type of circus fight I think needs to be looked at very carefully.

22:39Ade Oladipo:You said if it is a fight, with the inference that this obviously isn't the sport that you cover and love, it's something else. So with that cap on and with that kind of prism, does it become then AJ acting his way through to make it six or seven rounds so that they get value for money, the punters that go and see that? I mean, is it a WWF show in the end?

23:00Mark:I don't want to say that because I know Jake Paul's already got the lawyers out going against everyone that Dan says these fights are rigged. But there is no way AJ shouldn't be able to knock out Jake Paul in a round. So unless AJ's carrying him, unless it's classed as an exhibition and they're wearing bigger gloves, so they're not the usual 10 ounce or 12 ounce gloves. And they're bigger, almost pillow fisted gloves. I can't see how this lasts more than around. I genuinely can't. So I have no idea. And what's the point in that? No, there isn't.

23:34Gabby:We're talking Newbank Jr. against Ben and we'll have more from Robert and Addy after the break. The Sports Agents. The Sports Agents.

23:45Mark:With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

23:50Gabby:Back to the fight this weekend.

23:52Robert Smith:Robert, are you looking forward to it? I'm always pleased when the show's over and everybody goes home safely and we go back, there's not a problem. So that's my job is to put things in place to make sure everybody does their job. And then I can walk out and go back to the hotel and have a glass of wine and go to bed.

24:10Mark:Are you looking forward to it? I am. I am looking forward to it. I think the spectacle of the first fight was so good. 60 ,000 at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. And it's a really good undercard as well. Obviously, we never really touch on the undercard fighters. who for them it's an opportunity to kind of put themselves on the map, make some good money. And the first fight was so good. The first fight surprised me so much that I think this will be a good one. And yes, they've got the names and ultimately it's been sold because of the names. But removing the names, these guys can actually fight.

24:39Mark:These guys can fight. There's a bit of bad blood, which is always good, I think, in a boxing match. And it draws the casuals in. This isn't a sport that gets stadium fillers every single week. So anytime you've got a chance to draw the casuals in, is a good thing. So, I mean, I echo what Robert said there. I will like it though, and I will go home and have a glass of wine when it's all said and done, because it's a busy week, but no, I'm looking forward to it.

25:02Gabby:And if Ben wins, are we doing this again in six months time?

25:06Mark:I spoke to him yesterday, Mark, and he said, no. He said, I can't wait to get rid of him. Because I think he has -

25:12Gabby:Yeah, but Addy, put that to one side. Okay, let me put that cap off. You are correct.

25:16Mark:Yeah. There will be a trilogy. You are correct. There's too much money in it. They're making so much money. Normally, when you're making that type of money, a world title or titles have to be on the line. There are no titles on the line. So they're making world title money and fighting in front of stadiums, which was almost reserved for AJ and Tyson Fury. So they'll do it again if Ben wins, yeah.

25:37Ade Oladipo:So I watched the documentary last night and there's a meal after the last fight and Chris Eubank kind of gets up and walks away with this parting shot being that he doesn't want his son to fight again, ever. But, you know, he's 36 years old. You know, you've done it. And he calls him legendary status, doesn't he? Kind of like from that fight. How much of that, of that kind of theatre, if you like him getting up and walking off from that meal, how much of that is true, do you think? How much of that is his genuine belief?

26:06Mark:I think it's very true. I think he understands. And this is why it's not just a son-father relationship. It's a fighter-fighter relationship. So he understands exactly what Eubank Jr. goes through in the ring, the damage it's caused, and not just the damage it causes to himself, i.e. Eubank, the damage it can cause to other fighters. Obviously, Eubank Senior always references the Michael Watson situation. He always references Nigel Benn's fight with Gerald McLennan. So I think he understands the damage, but he also understands that if he was in Eubank's position, Eubank Junior, he would fight as well.

26:43Mark:But Eubank Senior certainly had fights he shouldn't have had when he moved up to Cruiserweight to fight a guy called Carl Thompson. Should never have had that fight.

26:49Ade Oladipo:It's interesting, Chavez, in the, I know you were working last night, in the documentary when he's about 13 years old and he's begging his dad to box. His dad won't let him for two years. He's begging him. And he looks at the camera, Chris, at one point and he says, you'll know about this guy when he's older. He's going to be somebody you'll know about. But he says, but not in boxing. He doesn't want it to be boxing. And that's when he's like 14 years old. And he was adamant his son was going to, for him, boxing was a way out. And it almost looked like in his mind, it was a failure if his son had to also box.

27:19Ade Oladipo:That's what you got from that. It was almost like, I want him to do something, but not this brutal sport that I had to go through.

27:25Mark:Yeah, because boxing, like most sports in this country, really, but boxing, more than most, is a real working class sport. You don't box if you don't have to financially.

27:35Ade Oladipo:Not many kids come from the kind of house, background, private school, the swimming pool, everything that he had in that documentary. Why would you want to fight? Why would you want to get hit?

27:44Mark:Can you fight? Because again, a lot of people fight to get out of poverty. If you're not in poverty, then what's the fight? What's the want? So you can understand Chris thinking, I've kind of failed here then, because I've given you everything. I've taken all the punishments that you don't have to. It'd be interesting if Chris, who now has a couple of kids on the way himself, it'd be interesting to know if he would let his kids fight. And will this stop? Will this end soon? I don't think Chris should look at himself senior as a failure. I think it's just... Knowing Chris Jr. the way I do now, this guy is as stubborn as you can get.

28:18Mark:And he really is. He will do what he wants to do. And he's actually been pretty good at doing it. So you can understand why he wants to continue.

28:27Gabby:It tends to be what most kids do. The opposite. They end up doing what they want to do, in my experience. Andy, Robert, thank you both. The Sports Agents.

28:40Ade Oladipo:So ring walk for that one around 9.30. Saturday night. I'm sure we'll be discussing the fallout of that next week. Make sure you subscribe, follow and leave a review and catch up with all past episodes on YouTube, Global Player or wherever you get your podcasts.

28:54Gabby:You can always get in touch with us sportsagentsatglobal.com or message us on social media or via the link in the show notes. Thanks for listening. The Sports Agents

29:04Mark:with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

29:11Gabby:This has been a Global Player Original Production