How Reijnders was built for Premier League & are we sleeping on Man City?

0:02This is a Global Player Original Podcast.

0:08Reinders. It's Lewis and Haaland walks it in. We have to talk about Reinders. What a ball this is. Numbers. Manchester City's favour. Tajani Reinders. Premier League debuts don't come much better than that one. Tajani Reinders, a player who arrived in England without the fanfare of a Jockerich or a Wurz, walked into City's opening win over Wolves and looked like he'd been running around Pep's midfield for years. In fact, running Pep's midfield.

0:41Gabby Logan:Absolutely. Some people have described that as an all-time Premier League debut. So we'll talk about that. We'll also look at the expectations. We pile on new arrivals. And maybe we've all been a little bit guilty of overlooking Guardiola's serial winners after their struggles last season. Welcome to the Sports Agents.

1:07Gabby Logan:The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Hello, Mark. Hi, Gabby. You all right? Yes. Are you well busy at the weekend? Doing anything new? Fairly quiet one. I don't know if you feel the same, but thank fuck that's over. It is a relief to stop talking about something and just do the thing, isn't it? And I thought that actually was reflected across the Premier League in terms of the players. You know, we talk and talk, don't we, about these new signings. And what we'll do today is talk about how they all got on. Stephen Warnock's going to join us in a moment to look at some of the big storylines and tell us a bit about his new podcast as well.

1:48Gabby Logan:Do you know what, though? Just at the weekend, at 3.45 on that Saturday afternoon, Newcastle Villa had ended goalless at Villa Park. The Sunderland-West Ham game was goalless. Brighton-Fulham, I think, was goalless as well. And Tottenham were leading Burnley 1-0. I was thinking, bloody hell, this could be the worst match of the day ever. The only person that would be happy about that was somebody who was sent to me on my algorithm on social media the other day. It's a guy who's promised to run the amount of goals per mile every week in the Premier League. And he'll average out about 28 to 30 miles a week he's going to have to run for every goal.

2:25So he would have been happy. I would have been very happy. So as a Manchester United supporter, are we kind of taking the positives from Liverpool? Yeah, very much.

2:36Gabby Logan:Yeah, absolutely. They actually put a smile on my face on Sunday. I know, yeah. I mean, there are so many things about that that are remarkable. Just that one sentence has nearly made you fall off your hotel bed in shot. And I'm only slightly wary because at times they have done that in the past over the last couple of seasons. and you think, oh, maybe there's a false dawn here or whatever. But I thought, and we'll talk about it a little bit later with Stephen Warnock, but I thought they looked athletic. They looked strong. They looked like they were, to use an old school term, that they were up for it.

3:12Gabby Logan:Now, look, at the end of it, they haven't scored, right? And they've lost. But there were elements in virtually every single player there that I thought, okay, that looks different. And Delict looked commanding at the back. I thought Yoro had a good game. Shaw and Dorgoo. And Mason Mount was brilliant for the hour that Mason Mount was on. But they did have the ability at times last season to raise their game for either a big match or a big opponent. And then they went to somebody or were at home to somebody that you could argue they should beat and then made a right rickets of it. So it's whether they...

3:55Whether they do that at Craven Cottage at the weekend.

3:58Gabby Logan:Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, whether they carry that mantle of, right, we're arriving in town. It sounds arrogant, this, and lots of fans are his, but we're arriving in town, we're Manchester United, and we're going to play our game and try and dominate you, which is what a Liverpool or a Manchester City or an Arsenal would do. And that's where I'm just slightly wary until I see a few of those games of getting too carried away. I thought the other thing that stood out for me over the weekend, and look, the Leeds penalty was debatable at best. But I think the fact that both Leeds and Sunderland won and Burnley did have some chances when they were only 1-0 down does bode well for a competitive Premier League.

4:37Gabby Logan:Bear in mind, 5th of October, Gabby, last season was when a promoted side won their first game. Early in November before two of them. Yes. So we're up and running with two of them and I think that can only be a good thing. Yeah, because Leeds go to Arsenal at the weekend. So, you know, they're going to have a real test there, aren't they? But I have to say, I was watching this while I was in transit and the atmosphere at Ellen Road, it was reflected in the TV coverage, actually. And they kind of mentioned the fact that, you know, it's so important for Leeds fans to be back in the Premier League.

5:08And they didn't disappear from their seats within a few minutes. They stayed, they sang, you know, it felt like a massive cup win. And that is what, if you're a promoted size, you've got to make your home games feel like that, haven't you? to give yourself that advantage. And certainly Sunderland, that was reflected there as well in the Stadium of Light before Sunderland fans pile in. Because that was incredible, wasn't it? The atmosphere there as well. So it's great to have them all back and hopefully they will kind of buck the trend of the last couple of seasons. If you didn't hear it, Chris Wilder was talking about this, explaining why it is harder than ever for promoted sides to survive the Premier League.

5:40You can catch up with that episode and all our episodes on YouTube, Global Player, or wherever you get your podcasts.

5:44Gabby Logan:I just want to mention on the men's golf side of things, Scotty Scheffler won his 18th PGA Tour event at the BMW Championship. That's his fifth win this year. He chipped in on the 17th to all but seal the win. Thank you, Scheffler. Can you believe what you just saw? Bobby Mac can't. Tiger-esque, wasn't it? reminiscent of the 16th hole of the 2005 Masters Tournament. Just pulled that one from my memory banks there. To break Tiger's all-time record of being world number one for the most consecutive weeks, which is 281, he needs to hold the spot now until Halloween 2028, which is not beyond the realms of possibility for him at the moment, the way he's playing.

6:39Gabby Logan:He has an aura about him, despite having a very laid-back demeanor, despite looking like nothing's going to bother him at all. His game is just so ultra-consistent and watching him on that Sunday at Portrush as he won the Open was a privilege, actually. It was, I know it was a procession and therefore didn't have the drama of, say, a McIlroy at the Masters, but it was a privilege to be able to watch him go around Portrush. Look, he isn't going to, he isn't necessarily going to put bums on seats in the way that Tiger did, but you have to have nothing but admiration for a man who is at the absolute top of his game and the other thing i think was going into that final round bob mackintyre had a had a decent lead and kind of a four shot lead yeah yeah four shot lead and he fell away and he was getting more and more annoyed with himself and i think part of that was obviously he was annoyed with his own game he seemed to be hitting the ball further than he thought he was she should be hitting it but it's the presence of scheffler once scheffler is there and and within touching distance that has to have an effect on the other players.

7:41Gabby Logan:The true greatness. You see in that golden era in tennis where you had Federer and Djokovic and Nadal all playing. Whoever they played against, no matter how well they've been playing, it's that somebody that you know can get over the line and win. It counts for so, so much. And obviously Bob McIntyre's quote as well, I think will go down as one of my favourite of the week, if not the month. Right now, I want to go smash at my golf clubs, to be honest with you, because I think any of us who played the game know exactly how that feels. 100%. One final thing, Women's Rugby Union World Cup. Are you ready?

8:16I'm very excited. Do you know why? I know you're not a big social media person, Mark, but the social media for the teams arriving this week has been off the charts with joy. And so they're all staying in various cities, the countries that are playing in the World Cup. And, you know, I saw the Americans arriving who are playing England on Friday at Stadium of Light. And everywhere they go, they're dancing. And there's been a kind of certain attitude within rugby. How in a minute, there was a bit of a backlash during the Six Nations when Sarah Burns, she was TikTok-ing in the crowd. They love it.

8:45They go out there as warrior women, but then they have a great time when they're, you know, when they're not on the pitch. And I think that is really going to resonate with people. I was reading some incredible stats yesterday. World rugby sees women's rugby as a massive opportunity because the men's game is not attracting at the same rate new fans that it needs to to survive. The women's game is attracting so many new fans and almost could be the thing that actually keeps the men's game, you know, kind of front and centre because those fans might cross over to the men's game, which is not something, it's very different, I think, to the kind of journey of women's football in a way.

9:16And rugby recognises that. So, as you can tell, I'm excited about it. It'll be very different to the Euros and, you know, it probably won't catch fire with the public until England are in a quarterfinal maybe. But it'll be well worth watching and I think you'll enjoy it if you make the effort.

9:30Gabby Logan:Just on the men's side. Not you. I know you make the effort. No, I will make the effort. you lazy ass just make an effort will you watch what i'm doing i'm worried i will i will just on the men's side of things just a little note um australia beat south africa in johannesburg over over the weekend in the in the rugby championship it's their first win at ellis park for 60 plus years it was an incredible uh turnaround they'd play again this weekend so let's see what south africa have got but i love razzy erasmus the south african coach's quote can i swear on the podcast i think you did earlier he said they were absolute dog shit I would like more managers to use that language on Match of the Day this season.

10:10Gabby Logan:Keep your questions coming in or complaints about the language on this podcast. Email the sportsagents at global.com or use the new fancy Google form in the episode description. But back to the opening weekend then, was that from Tijani Rinders the best Premier League debut that you can remember? But, well, the noise around his move to Man City was certainly not up there with some big names, was it? Maybe one of the quietest. We're going to get into that story and behind what is being described as one of the best Premier League debuts next. The Sports Agents. Watching that game on Saturday, it was a little bit, oh, did we just forget about the obvious?

10:48Pep Guardiola, if he loses a title, he'll win it back. He wins titles nearly every single year he's coached in his career. And when you saw Rinders on Saturday, you think of Rodri to come back in. You think of Stones and Diaz Highland up front. That's a spine and a half. That's a title winning spine. It's a treble winning spine with a manager who's prolific. Welcome. Andy Brassel, host of the brilliant European football podcast on the continent. So of all the people that I'm going to speak to, I am sure that the performance of Dijani Rinders was not one that surprised you. Not massively. I mean, I guess the thing is, Gabby, you've always got to give someone a bit of latitude when they're arriving in the Premier League.

11:26because, of course, the pace, the tempo, all of that's way different. Although I do tend to think that over time that becomes a little less because the Premier League is so incredibly influential in world circles. Everyone watches it everywhere. I mean, I've just been on holiday to Tanzania and I saw someone walking through a village wearing a Brighton and Hove Albion shirt. That's how big the Premier League is worldwide now. And I kind of feel it's had a knock-on effect about the way the game is played as well. If you look at Serie A, we think of it as finishing school for defenders and all that sort of stuff.

12:00It's like chess. It's not really like football. Well, you know what? If you look at the way the average goals have gone in Serie A over the last 10 years, you'll know it's influenced by the Premier League. Funnily enough, what we're seeing more is players who are struggling in the Premier League going over to Serie A to sort of revive their careers and not just English players. We've seen Romelu Lukaku, Ashley Young, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. but the thing with Rinders is he obviously comes from a different sort of background now he's an academy kid to a certain extent he started out at Twente they got rid of him pretty quickly when he was a teenager everyone knows the story about him he was working in Aldi while still trying to make it as a as a footballer he didn't actually make his top flight debut until he was he was 21 but I remember speaking to um speaking to Frank de Boer when he was he was in charge at Ajax and speaking to Brian Roy when he was working with the Ajax second team there and for like 15 years now people in Dutch football have said okay well we've got an image of playing football in a certain way worldwide you think of Cruyff you think of pass pass pass pass pass and everything that made Barcelona what they are today but actually they're quite open and they have been for the last 10-15 years about the dynamics of European football have changed the financial dynamics of European football have changed.

13:17So it's not just a question of cultural influence. They need to produce players who are going to be good for the Premier League. And that means producing harder, faster, stronger players. And what I saw with Reinders, who, as you say, to an extent, it wasn't a surprise, Gabby, because he was a player who was one of the very best in Serie A last season. He was fantastic for Milan. He was their best player by some distance. But it's something that City really missed last season. And I think that sort of physical power that he showed and his ability to adapt to the tempo of the game is something you maybe don't get from a Dutch player 15 years ago.

13:50Gabby Logan:I find that point really interesting. And I suppose it's only natural on what would happen in any other business is what is the market going to want both now and in five years' time? That's what every business tries to do. So is that unique to the Ajax Academy or Dutch Academies? Or are you seeing that more across other European markets? Right. What can we do with our kids that gets them into our first team, but then makes them a viable proposition to be sold to the behemoth that is the Premier League? I think for those mid-leagues, those mid-level leagues, it's absolutely integral chappers, the ones that are below the top five.

14:34So we think of Dutch football imposing its culture on other countries, and I don't really think that's the case anymore. I mean, the phrase that Frank de Burr used to me is, we need to breed them for market, which I think is just realistic, isn't it, really? Makes him sound like Clarkson on his farm.

14:55Gabby Logan:That's what that does. That's probably why he's not involved at the moment. but I think it's interesting that now we always talk about there being a big leap to the Premier League well actually because these clubs are saying we really need it's an imperative to go get that money for we don't want to sell to Spanish clubs they haven't got any money let's sell to Premier League clubs so let's create players who are and Constance I was criticized for it by some traditional Porto fans we don't want players who are six foot two and clatter other players. We want little wizards. Well, you know what?

15:29That's not what sells. So maybe we have to create something else. Talking about goalkeeping at the weekend to Joe Hart, he was saying like, you know, what perhaps Pep is looking at now is not necessarily always somebody who can play out from the back and potentially could play left back if they had to. He was quite convinced that Pep might have changed his mind about that and that there's a new way of playing coming yet again.

15:54Gabby Logan:And therefore, Rinders would then fit into that, presumably, Gabby, from what Joe was saying. Because, you know, there was a man who carried the ball. And we had the discussion on Saturday about players who've carried the ball for Manchester City in recent years have kind of been moved. Moved on to Everton. Moved on to Everton, yeah. So maybe it is changing, hasn't it? Yeah, I think so. And I guess that sort of running through onto longer passes is where Rinders comes in. And funnily enough, I know people have said again and again and again, you can't replace Kevin De Bruyne. And it seems like heresy to say you can replace Kevin De Bruyne.

16:30But you can replace him with a different player. And maybe that is Reinders. And funnily enough, something that Reinders and KDB, when he originally arrived from Wolfsburg, have got in common, is their midfield players who aim to get beyond the striker. So what made De Bruyne so immediately successful when he arrived in the Premier League was the fact that he was a playmaker with pace as well. So not just someone who scratched his chin and, you know, had a little bit of a think about where he was going to play the right pass, but someone who grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck, not just because he had such a range of passing, but because he could actually get beyond the last defender and get beyond the last striker if he wanted to, because he had that kind of pace.

17:12And because he'd been encouraged to do that in the Bundesliga, talking about the cross-cultural things that we share between the leagues now, which I think we do a lot, I think that's really important. But funnily enough, when you're going back and talking about goalkeepers and ones that have not just the ability on the ball to get themselves out of tight spots, but the range of passing, Gabby, I think of what goalkeeper can do that better than any other is Edison. I remember interviewing Edison a while back. And normally when you ask viewer questions or listener questions to a player, they have a bit of a think about it.

17:48They're caught on the hop. And someone had asked me to ask him, what position would you play if you're an outfield player? Edison didn't even let me get to the end of the question. He's like, left back. I'll be Roberto Carlos. That would be me. You know, so he's someone who's got it completely in his mind. He doesn't really see himself as just the goalkeeper. he's like I'm a football player it goes against the Rudhullit thing of you know if you're any good

18:11Gabby Logan:at football you wouldn't be in goal the other thing with Rinders is he's 27 and therefore he is experienced you know he's got he's got a decent back catalogue behind him are you sensing is there a change in what Premier League the the big Premier League clubs want in terms of age profile that they're going through are they going for less untapped rough diamonds and more established at the moment i think i think rinders is a bit of a one-off in that sense really chappers and like he's look at his passport he's 27 but if you look at his career path he's a bit of a late developer he's almost like a an ian wright really not quite to that extent but in the sense that we expect players to be.

19:00A lot of the players that we see every day in the Premier League, we've known that they could be something since they were 16, 17, even if it's taken them a little while to break through. And if you look at the market, how long it took Arsenal to get the Giocares deal together, the fact that there was not a Premier League landing spot for Victor Ozyman, two of the strikers, if you go back, I think, even three years, they wouldn't be on the market for 10 seconds. They would get snapped up by one of the Premier League big boys straight away. But there was clearly a lot of internal discussion at Arsenal.

19:32Do we go with Sheshko, the young guy with big upside, or do we go with Giocarez, who's been a bit more around the block, a little bit like Reinders, and is the guarantee of goals now? So I still think, and it still feels to me that in the age of PSR and FFP, that even the biggest clubs, and Chelsea have been criticised for this, but unfairly to an extent, I would say, They still want to invest in guys who they can sell on in the future, who might develop into something. You know, it's almost as if people would rather have a John Duran than a Victor Gioca these days, which is kind of wild to me because, like, Duran's upside is enormous, but you don't really know what he's going to turn into.

20:13And that's why he was scoring goals in the Champions League 10 months ago to beat Bayern Munich, and now he's two clubs down the line and playing at Fenerbahce, which is totally weird, you know, because they can match the sort of wages that are in the Middle East. So I do think Reinders is a bit of an unusual one. You look at him at 27 and you think that is not something that Premier League clubs go and get. But maybe they're looking at him and thinking, well, because he's kind of a late developer, he's got a little bit more in the tanks. I was not really like buying a 27-year-old. He's had two really good seasons and one exceptional season at Milan.

20:49But really, because of his career path, It's almost like you're buying a 24-year-old rather than a 27-year-old.

20:54Gabby Logan:But also, I would imagine if you're buying him for 45 million and he's 27 and you get five years out of him, I mean, you're not going to really be that bothered. And also I heard comments at the weekend about him as a person, very complimentary comments about the kind of person he is. And a lot of pundits talking about how managers, yes, they love their data and their biometrics and all of that. But actually, as a person, what that kind of journey does to you and how hungry it makes you is something you can't quantify. Yeah, I mean, I think that's absolutely right. And I think that's something that recruitment departments and coaches are looking at more and more and more.

21:32I think you can tell that he's done a proper job and he's kind of a normal guy. I think you can definitely tell that about him, the way that he talks. His post-match interviews were brilliant. Yeah, and I think when he's talking about his Indonesian heritage and he's talking about his love for Nasi Goreng, I saw an interviewer ask him, can you still eat Nasi Goreng now? is in the Premier League and he's like, come on. I still can't be a normal guy even if I'm a Premier League footballer. I can't ditch that bit of the culture. But look, obviously you get players who, in every country, you put in so much from when they're children.