Inside Macclesfield's FA Cup upset: Rooney, Love Island & buying a club on Rightmove

12:46Mark:will tell your grandkids about who would have thought it you know I bought the club five years ago you know obviously after a boozy uh boozy event can we go into that yeah of course yeah it was a bit crazy really I've um you know I sort of sold my business did really well and then you know unfortunately went into a sort of oblivion of addiction really you know I didn't really feel like I had a purpose and uh obviously you know when I saw the football club on right move you know I kind of did it as a bit of a joke really it was uh let's have a go and let's buy it and you know bought it within about 24 hours and I remember you know going down to the football club I've not even seen it at this stage you know I just did it for a bit of a laugh because I wasn't in a good place uh and um i remember getting a massive bunch of keys and you know trying to get in the place for for about three hours because you can imagine there's about 300 keys and i'm just trying to open find that key doesn't work right this one you know trying to go through them all and um you know when i got in there i thought oh my god you know what have i bought you know the grass was grown the boards had fallen that it was it was it had completely and utterly gone to ruin obviously the receivers had gone in they'd literally ripped the place apart and uh yeah at that point i hadn't told the wife or anything about what i'd done you know it was only really when you know sky turned up and bbc turned up and you know they're asking can we speak to the new owner rob smathers and i'm thinking that's me you know were you i mean you

14:10Gabby:talked about you being in oblivion but were you were you oblivious to what the plight of macclesfield

14:16Mark:town had been totally oblivious wow okay I hadn't because you're in the area I mean I'm in the area I mean I knew look I knew it had gone in I knew it had gone I knew a lot of people in the area were devastated you know I saw it on the news and you know I had quite a lot of friends that that obviously loved the football club and I know when it went under it just ripped the community

14:37Robert Smethurst:apart are you a football man though like did you did you grow up kind of thinking one day when I make my millions I'll buy a football club.

14:45Mark:Kerry absolutely not no it was it was one of those ridiculous moments in life you know when you just think you know I'm going to have a go at something that I needed something because I was bored.

14:55Robert Smethurst:You needed a purpose.

14:56Mark:I needed a purpose I needed some direction and I just thought well maybe I could maybe I could make a difference you know I just sort of got myself in a good position with with obviously drinking and you know I'd gone through sort of a program to to sort my head out and you know that kind of has given me a purpose and I'm not saying it's saved my life but in some ways you know it has because it's given me direction and I wanted to build something so special not not just for me personally but genuinely for like a you know community that had lost a football club and you know for me it was about trying to make a difference because you know I know it sounds like a bit of a cliche but you know when you do make your money and you can buy whatever you want um you know your houses cars and everything else that goes with it you actually don't want them it actually takes you the opposite direction and you know how many watches do you really want how many cars do you want you know and actually you think well what can I do to make a difference because that's kind of the person I am really

15:48Gabby:and you know I wanted to give back in the bill do you know I'm not even in the build-ups this I sort of knew quite a bit of it beforehand as well but the sort of last week two weeks and then being there on Saturday highlights the value of a football club to a community and how also vice versa that highlights the value of the community to the football club i mean you know interviews with volunteers who every week unblock your toilets you know the crown and so on you know all of those kind of things that you know a lot of people will become but you know your ground staff have probably got you know three or four volunteers like lots of non-league clubs with pitchforks and whatever that's where the club and the community come to the fore it does i think you

16:30Mark:know obviously you know we're all watching these big premier league games week in week out but But, you know, actually the heart and soul is actually at non-league football. You know, I think when you start to really, you know, get into it, you know, a community, you know, it goes far deeper to what you can do to, you know, the local bars, the restaurants, you know, when we have busy home games. You know, the volunteers, you know, the mental health side of it, you know, the people that you can support, you know, they become friends, even though there's, you know, only maybe four or five thousand fans coming.

16:58Mark:You know, believe it or not, you start to really make great friends within the club. And it goes much deeper. the volunteers want to help you know it becomes people's lives and I think what you start to realise is you know how powerful football is within a town and I think it's it's such an

17:14Robert Smethurst:antidote to you know we both work on big Premier League Champions League you know the kind of the absolute upper echelons where players you know are worth hundreds of millions and are being paid ridiculous amounts of money and it's not always better is it it's not always you know that covetable when you look at what you have I think there's a lot of people looking on with with envy actually and remembering a time when they were connected with the players of their clubs I think

17:43Mark:you're right look it's got so serious as well you know there's so much money involved and and the love for the sport is all around money you know I mean they forget the grassroots sometimes and you know obviously we develop players you know that are coming through the system I mean you know if you just look at our club for example we've got nearly 600 kids in the academy 38 teams we've got a foundation with 300 kids in that support that you know play football for free and we give them boots if they can't afford it you know we do the Christmas dinners you know we open up the stadium we bring people in that are less fortunate that's completely lost within the the big game now I mean I know obviously they've got to be seen to be doing the right thing but you know it's all about you know the big money and I think if you look at what we've done you know we've had look school teachers plumbers electricians just go knock out Crystal Palace in the FA Cup you know I mean we've got players on you know 250 pounds a week and they train two times a week we're against players there that were you know 30 million maybe on 60 ,000 70 ,000 pounds a week and we've gone and in some respects you know outplayed them which is just unheard of

18:50Gabby:Sam Heathcote your centre half who's also a PE teacher was on the radio with me last night and deal double has said to him i'm surprised you're coming on here and are sober i thought you'd still be drunk because i'm like well i had to had to teach today so that's got a six-year-old that kind of sums up sums up the situation really listen do you think not caring about football or not knowing a great deal about football has actually benefited you because you're running a football club based on your principles rather than thinking that you're playing football manager

19:27Mark:yeah I don't look I don't even think that I play football manager I think to me it was it's about bringing the community together and a fan base of people that you know you respect and you know look I've I've had to learn quickly I've had to realize that unfortunately the better you do at our levels the worse it actually gets financially yeah you know and I think that's a big thing that I never really realised when I bought it was, you know, we had a small budget of like£250 ,000 when we started in the very low leagues. But as we've now moved on, you know, the pressure becomes from the fans, they expect better.

20:00Mark:You know, we've been used to a winning mentality at Macclesfield. So what's happened now is the pressure's on me, you know, to keep delivering and the expectations just get higher and higher. And, you know, unfortunately players do cost a lot of money. And if you want to compete at the highest level, you have to pay the money to get them.

20:15Gabby:And that will be the challenge going forward, won't it? You know, we've talked on this podcast before that there are local businessmen or women who are in charge of, say, League Two clubs who have gone, this isn't viable anymore. This isn't viable for a local business person to be able to own a football club within the 92. too i mean even if you know the tier above you the tier below lead to the national league there are some seriously wealthy clubs on big budgets because there aren't there aren't restrictions are there in in the national league if you went up you'd have to compete with them and the other point of that was i can remember sutton united as a non-lead club when they had a great cup run they played arsenal they knocked leeds out so on and so forth and talking to them at the time and i'm saying we're not sure whether we want to go up actually because we've got our 4g 5g pitch the community can use it everything's great if we go up we'll have to rip that up and put grass in there are lots of dilemmas the higher you go you're absolutely spot on i think that is

21:20Mark:the dilemma i think you know we've got a 4g pitch you know if we go up to the next level you know if you look at our budget you know we're probably just short of a million you know which is reasonably affordable we've got a great business model where obviously the academy pays we've got btech programs we've got the bars the restaurants we've got a gym you know so we've what we've done is trying to get as much money as we can we don't take any money or i don't take any money whatsoever everything goes towards the first team but if you look at going up to the next level like the national league you know you are talking then realistically to try and get out of that league you need anywhere between two to three million you know which is the kind of money you need and and that becomes almost well it does it becomes unaffordable for the likes of me you know so then what you're hoping for is can you get a bigger enough investor that wants to dream about taking it up and the problem you've got though is is football clubs do not make money it's it's almost like becomes a toy um you know you try and make it as business as you can but the reality is there's only so many pies you can sell there's only so many drinks you can sell and and then before you know it you know when salaries start to increase in players wages

22:20Robert Smethurst:it does become unaffordable there was so many layers to the to the story at the weekend weren't I mean, you know, you've got a manager who's got a very famous footballing name and his brother in the studio, you know, breaking down at the end, which was really emotional to watch at home. And then, of course, what happened to the club pre-Christmas in losing a player, Ethan McLeod. I remember when that story, not even thinking about that fixture, but just hearing that story, it's, you know, the human side of any kind of sporting environment and imagining what it was like for those players to lose their teammate at the time.

22:56Robert Smethurst:And then to see at the weekend, you know, how you brought his family in to try and actually get something from that occasion and to have some kind of memory of their son within that environment was handled so beautifully, Rob.

23:10Mark:I appreciate it. I think, you know, when you saw how broken obviously everyone was at the football club, I mean, the players were broken. It almost feels like the club was finished. We were in bits. Obviously, I got the phone call very early morning, you know, from the police. and I just broke down and probably I might break down now but and then John and I had to make the phone calls to each individual player and I think that's probably if not one of the most heartbreaking moments of my life because to hear the reactions of each individual player was massively heartbreaking and it has been tough, it always will be tough but I think the parents to come to such an amazing game and then for us to go out and deliver the performance that we did for Ethan because those players before we even got out there you know were still broken and I think they always will be but the resilience of the lads to go out there and then like you say then I saw the parents on the side you know on the pitch once we had the massive pitch invasion you know the roof had blown off the place it was well we didn't have a roof but you know I'd like to think we did one day but it was insane and I saw them and they were clapping and I just grabbed them and said look you need to be a part of this Ethan was our 12th man on this pitch and this is what football is about we took them into the changing rooms the players hugged them we saw it on TV and then we took them and we gave them Ethan's boots because obviously they'd not been to the ground since and they took that away but you know what that was a real special moment it meant more that to be fair than the win for me for them to be there on a, like you say, a trillion and one chances of winning a top league was incredible.

24:56Gabby:So difficult, isn't it? Because John Rooney said to me after the match when we were talking on the television, he said he got a message the night before from Ethan's dad, but he didn't know whether he wanted to share that with the team or not because he didn't want to put extra pressure on them. And that is the fine line in this grieving situation, isn't it? that by wanting to do it for Ethan they actually as a group would put more pressure on themselves

25:24Mark:it did you're right I think you know John rang me and said what what should I do in this situation and I said look you know between you know me and you maybe maybe let them have you know they've been through enough yeah you know maybe go out there and express themselves the best they can without that added pressure and that was a decision that we both made but afterwards you know seeing them hugging I mean what a moment you know what they've got to go through now is there's no words as you can't really talk about it I mean how they're what they're going to feel like for the rest of their lives but you know we'll probably do something definitely at the football club and you know we'll create some scholarships which is what we're going to do you know we've got a big educational program as well which people don't realize you know we've we've actually just done a big deal with the Premier League as well you know for kids that need educated so we've teamed up with UCLan University so I'm a big believer in you know It's amazing how many kids that come through the academies and then fall out of academies.

26:17Mark:And that was something that's a passion of mine. So I've created a scholarship programme for kids to get a three-year degree at university for the kids that might not make it as a player.

26:27Gabby:I'm sure you have put your foot wrong every now and then over the course of this journey. But at the moment, you've got everything in such a good place and doing everything the right way. with a football task force and the FA and all of this what could the game do to allow clubs that do things the right way to flourish i think that there's a massive massive emphasis

26:54Mark:that we need to keep the 3g pitch i think you can't underestimate the value of that at the levels you know we generate all our income it becomes a community asset we've got tournaments on there week in week out we've got kids playing on there from four o 'clock till ten o 'clock every night within the football ground and you know if you go up to league two you lose that whole community thing because you've lost the identity of a football club because you want to put grass down and I think you know that needs to change the income that generates flourishes a football club I mean without that I don't think I would survive so I think it's something that definitely needs to change and then obviously you've got the three up you know yeah three up campaign i think that's that's huge you know that gives us the opportunity to flourish within a pyramid system and keep that sort of fluidity going that you get the chance of actually you know moving up because what happens is is the two drop down you know usually when they drop down they've got a bigger budget and they're massive you know you look at our situation now the two clubs that dropped down last season you know they're full-time players so realistically what's happened now is we can only probably try for playoffs.

28:02Mark:We don't have that opportunity now. There's a few changes definitely to be looked at about the lower levels. Maybe a little bit of support from the bigger clubs. I think that's massively important. We don't get it. The TV deal that we got on was worth$120 ,000,$130 ,000. I think we won $120 ,000. Palace gave you all their money. Palace gave us all their money, which again was incredible from them. That generated us. so you know if you look at a club what we probably made on that day was probably just short of maybe 400 000 right you know which is huge money for for a club and then is that enough for us give us a sort of yes if you look at sort of our our club we're probably losing around 300 000 a year um we bring in about 2.4 to 2.6 million but there is always a deficit because you know there's always that push that you want to get better players you know and better players obviously cost more money so if you look at what i've probably got to put into that football club and some of our investors now, you know, we're probably a deficit of around 300 ,000 of losses.

29:03Gabby:So that means you'll break even.

29:05Mark:So now we've just broke even, you know, which has been huge for us.

29:09Gabby:Did getting Robbie's two million salary off the books help?

29:12Mark:Yeah, well, you know, it was three million.

29:16Robert Smethurst:And you've got, you've got Brentford next, another Premier League side, although it was so funny with the draw because John so clearly wanted Liverpool in any guys there. He didn't, he. He could see it. It couldn't help but look slightly disappointed when Liverpool went elsewhere. And obviously Brentford, another Premier League side, Brentford having a very good season. You know, they won't, I don't think anybody would come and take you lightly now, would they, after what they've seen with Crystal Palace?

29:41Mark:No, you know, I just take it with a pinch. I'm laughing if I'm honest inside. You know, I mean, this has just been one of the most ridiculous things probably within football. When you actually look at these big, huge, you know, teams that are coming to little old Macclesfield, You know, if you only need to look at the changing rooms, you know, the tactic boards are falling off and, you know, we're running around trying to get the radiator. We're all looking for a little thing, you know, to bleed the key, you know, to try and get some warmth in there. So, you know, it's highly amusing. And I think I'm realistic.

30:12Mark:This is like the David Goliath story. It's unbelievably great fun. And I think that's what it should be.

30:18Robert Smethurst:Who doesn't love that? Everybody loves the David and Goliath story, don't they? It's brilliant. And everybody likes the idea of, you know, a Premier League team having a little slap. You know, it's that kind of, you know, just remember what it was that you all started doing. All you multimillionaire players all started playing football as kids, you know, in clubs, grassroots clubs. You know, I mean, I know these days that the Premier League clubs scoop up players at a very young age into their academies. But it must have been quite a sobering experience for so many of those players when they left that day to just remember that, the more thoughtful ones and think about that.

30:50Mark:yeah I mean I was talking to the players afterwards they're in shock you know they actually said we outplayed them you've got Lewis Fenson you know great great player you know playing against an England international I mean even at the start when you know Dawson ran and almost got that challenge straight away I think that's what set the whole precedence for the game is you know you're on our ground here you know this isn't this is non-league you know he's got his bandage on his head and blood dripping down his face you know if that's not non-league football then what is

31:17Gabby:But they looked like they were having fun. They were smiling at times. They were taking the mick at times.

31:23Mark:One of the players didn't he did like a Ronaldo move, you know, Lacey, you know, did it twice. And you're just thinking, what is going on here, you know?

31:31Gabby:But Sam Heathcote again said to me last night, he said, you know, one nil up, I was saying to, I think he said to Liam, you know, we're doing well here. And then when the second one went in, the two of them looked at each other and went, oh my God, we might actually do this. And to know that now having those kind of normal conversations, While the game's going on.

31:50Robert Smethurst:John Rooney came in the studio with Chappers afterwards and I think I've seen him on every show bar Loose Women actually over the last two days. He's on everything, isn't he? Yeah. And obviously, the role of a manager at Macclesfield is very different to anywhere else that we normally see in football. And him talking during the week about the snow on the pitch and the other things that he has to do in his job. Tell us a little bit about your relationship with him and what he does during the week. Because if the players are only training two times a week, there's a lot more time.

32:22Mark:There is. We've got this real special bond. It's like a band of brothers, all our players, and our staff, backroom staff. We'll all jump into whatever we can. I mean, we had all the snow on the pitch. We're all out on the pitch. Dawson's on a tractor. And then you've got Rooney shouting at him, saying, you need to rest, you've got a game. And the banter is brilliant. But I think, you know, not he's your manager. he's got to be director of football he's got to be head of recruitment you know he's got to clean the pitch you know you know if the toilets are blocked he's no no maybe that's too far but the reality of it is he has to be aware of everything i think that's something that we've all had to learn you know i've had to learn to be you know director of football as well you know and recruitment i've got to make decisions so we kind of do it as a big team thing i mean you know i think football's football's changed where you know if you look at our club you know i can't really let the manager go out there and spend the budget all in one go we've got to put things in place to make sure that we don't get any anything wrong because we haven't got that luxury you know if we've got three players on the bench that are on you know 500 pounds a week or a thousand pounds a week you know we can't afford to keep them you know so we can't just go and replace them if they're on a say a year contract

33:30Gabby:or a two-year contract and most of them are on a year i'm guessing aren't they because that is non-league football so the long-term planning is quite difficult because there is such a churn

33:41Mark:there's such a churn rate some are on pay as you play I mean it was brilliant when we first started because it was all pay as you play it was great you know if something didn't work out you could agree and say thanks very much but now it's contracted you know you're thinking oh my god you know he's on maybe 60 ,000 a year or 40 ,000 a year and you know we haven't got that luxury to go right you know you four aren't good enough we're going to go out and buy another four players you know so

34:03Robert Smethurst:so Jim Ratcliffe's listening to this going this is how I saw it this is how he should have seen it his director of football

34:10Mark:is really the recruitment is the most important thing in football yeah

34:15Robert Smethurst:and just finally obviously you've mentioned your kind of moment on right move your moment of madness and right move have paid you kind of respect and compliment in return haven't they they've come to you about potentially being involved

34:28Mark:they have they've just they messaged me yesterday actually bizarrely saying look I think we need to do something and I'm like yeah you do brilliant you know any financial help please you know anything you know would be nice

34:40Gabby:thank you brilliant well um congratulations long mate continue for you and just from a personal point of view every single person that i dealt with on saturday was an absolute joy it was such a lovely place to be and be around brilliant and i can say that to you rob with and this will only matter to sort of non-league fans in the northwest but with my altering them connections i can still say i had a lovely time at Matt. That's, okay. Can I just say as well, as somebody,

35:09Robert Smethurst:I would say, I'm on right move more than, almost more than any other website. I've never seen a football club for sale. I'm devastated. I mean, it's literally my...

35:17Gabby:that's what you missed out on. Right, okay. I dread to think what Gabby may buy in the next couple of weeks.

35:25Robert Smethurst:Chappers, do you want me to go 50-50? Yeah.

35:29Gabby:Thank you.

35:30Mark:Pleasure.

35:30Gabby:The Sports Agents.

35:35Robert Smethurst:the sports agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman

35:41Gabby:right come on then Gabby because this story has irked you yeah it has by the way how good was Rob

35:47Robert Smethurst:he was great oh just so as lovely as I'd hoped he was going to be because obviously you know you you see somebody like I saw him on Saturday I've read lots of things and you know he just seems to be absolutely you know his heart is in the right place for that club and I just hope that somehow the fans can just manage expectations a little bit because sometimes be careful what you wish for you know you don't want to lose that heart and that community do you and as we always say as well you know everybody wants a piece of the big pie don't they and the big pie has only got so many slices and sometimes you just and it's easy to say that if you you know have been associated with a big club or you've had you know you've had a bit of taste of going to you know Wembley and watching your team win you can say that can't you but I think it's so important that those community clubs are well supported right so i i just saw the story and thought um you know it was such a naive thing it might have affected you and impacted you in your life somewhere i'm not sure and have you ever kind of been made to take jewelry out to play sport um uh in my belly button piercing

36:46Gabby:yes i'm glad you went there did think did think for a second and i thought no we'll go with we'll go with but anyhow back to Back to your story.

36:57Robert Smethurst:OK, so this is Estelle Cascarino making her WSL debut for West Ham, trying to anyway, trying to come on against Chelsea. She had an earring which she covered up with tape because she said it couldn't be taken out unless there was medical kind of, a doctor had to do it, some kind of medical support to take it out. I'm not quite sure what kind of earring this is. So she wasn't allowed on the pitch because you're not allowed to go on with tape on your earring like that in the WSL. Apparently in the Champions League you could do this, she said. But the thing that, I mean, Farrah Williams herself, who was covering the game, said it was a schoolgirl error.

37:34Robert Smethurst:I can't believe the club didn't know this. That seems extraordinary. I think back to school when girls deliberately had their ears pissed so they could miss games for six weeks. This is not new, this phenomena. Because not everybody loves sport, apparently. But Estelle, this is, you know, it's just so naive, isn't it? That the club didn't have kind of a steer on this. And on the one hand, you think, you know, all these promising signs in women's football, particularly with gate receipts and brands and marketing. And then you kind of get a little moment like this where you're reminded that, you know, there's still a bit of naivety around.

38:08Gabby:Somebody should have spotted that, shouldn't they?

38:11Robert Smethurst:That's what, you know, I just can't believe that in, you know, a club now or in a league now where the eyeballs are there, the money's there, the branding's there, and then somebody can make a mistake like this. I mean, she must feel like a complete fool.

38:25Gabby:You may have thoughts on this. You may have stories about missing PE. Or maybe more relevant, you may be involved in non-league football and have thoughts about everything that Rob said today. Get in touch with us. Email the sportsagents at global.com. You can use social media or the link in the show notes.

38:42Robert Smethurst:I once came back. I was at school when we had the teacher strikes. and of course the things that went were art and sport but we had these amazing PE teachers who just kind of kept on doing clubs and things and we had cross country and it was after there had been a strike in the lesson after lunch I was 13 and so everybody just went off, went home because it was after lunch lesson but it was PE afterwards so I came back so me and my two friends like you know spotty, probably were spotty as well

39:09Gabby:spotty, sporty types Nicknames were different back then weren't they? Mine was scabby

39:16Robert Smethurst:so the three of us came back because it was cross-country and we got told off we were like we were kind of because we were a bit late or something five minutes late and they told us and we were like but we're the only three here are you not going to actually do anything with us so did you not do it no we they ran us around roundy park in the snow in shorts i mean you know

39:34Gabby:be careful what you wish for our past episodes are available on youtube global player or if you get your podcast subscribed please follow leave a review thank you so much for listening

39:45Robert Smethurst:the sports agents with gabby logan and mark chapman

39:53Mark:this has been a global player original production