Is English Cricket failing the REAL test?

0:02This is a global production. Oh my God, this is sensational. The cloud had gone across the sun at Edgbaston where Sky were covering Birmingham against MI London in the 100. We haven't seen a cloud in about three or four weeks. And Stuart Broad passed a message to NASA saying we don't have to worry about the cloud because the eclipse has been delayed until 10 to 9. I don't know where he's got that from. What Stuart Broad had done was misread an article that said the next eclipse is in 2050. It's actually the year 2050, Stuart.

0:42I went for a walk to get a coffee this morning in Birmingham and passed these two guys and overheard one say to the other, it was really disappointing in the end. It was nowhere near as exciting as I thought it was going to be. And at first I thought maybe that was Villa's performance last night. And then the other one, the other one said, well, it wasn't supposed to be a total eclipse.

1:12Hello and welcome to the Sports Agents. Hello, Mark. Hello, Nadem. Late night for you two. Yeah, it wasn't too late yesterday to be fair, Chappers, was it? No, it was kind of, I mean, it was in and out. It was like half a... Hit and run. half an hour half an hour show it was perfect doing the doing the Super Cup and you know what actually for a well people can make their own mind up but for what is kind of a pre-season friendly it was an entertaining game and actually we felt quite positive for Villa didn't we yeah we did yeah especially with the younger players out there like Badgway sorry like Maggio and Hemmings like they were good but let's let's be completely honest let's take people behind the curtain we were also watching athletics let's not let's not try and separate ourselves from that yeah you know what i mean all-round sports people that we are good to be across everything we we even had manchester united leads on another monitor which yeah you had that one on well just good to be across everything coming up on today's show the english football league season kicks off this weekend and there are loads of big stories to get into across the championship plus league one and two but first as chapa said we're going to talk cricket England's men's three test series against Pakistan begins on Monday.

2:23But that might just be a side issue because the appointment of Stephen Fleming as new test coach and Joe Root back as captain have raised some eyebrows. Editor of Wisdom Cricket Almanac and Daily Mail writer Lawrence Booth joins us. Lawrence, thank you so much for coming on the pod. Hi Gary, thanks for having me. What are your feelings ahead of this test series? Honestly, I'd say this so often on this pod when we talk about cricket. For somebody who, it would be my first choice sport to always watch. I always have, has been. But I just don't know what I feel about it at the moment. And now I can't work out what I should feel about the test team, really.

3:00Yeah, I'm supposed to have strong opinions, aren't I? But I sort of share your ambivalence to a degree because, look, it's a holding pattern, isn't it? Stephen Fleming won't start as head test coach until the Tour of South Africa in the winter. Joe Root is back, having last been test captain four years ago. He stood in for one game at the Oval against New Zealand recently. We're kind of waiting for the next phase of England's test team to get going again. That won't really happen until they go to South Africa in the winter. So it's a strange one. Plus, it's a series they cannot afford to lose.

3:32I mean, they absolutely have to beat Pakistan convincingly to get rid of some of the cobwebs from the New Zealand defeat and, of course, the ashes. So strange times and it'll be interesting to see what goes on. How much change do you think we're going to see? I mean, there's, you know, McCollum's still involved, obviously, in the set up, as you say there. And Joe Root is not a novel idea. 35 years old. He knows what he's doing. But does he bring new, fresh ideas? Probably not. Steady's things. Stephen Fleming, obviously, is the new character in the piece, if you like. But will we notice dramatic difference in the way England approached this test?

4:04I don't think it'll be dramatic. I mean, look, if you were to characterise the difference between Fleming and McCullum, you'd say that Fleming operates more with his head and McCullum more with his heart. And though Fleming isn't here at the moment, he will clearly have some say in what's going on. He's had some say in selection. I mean, Joe Root has spoken a bit about refining what's gone on. They don't like using the word Bazball anymore. In fact, they can't really because Baz isn't there. So they have to call it something else. Flemball sounds horrific. awful I mean god flamble sounds unpleasant so I don't think they'll go there I think they'll Root has already spoken about sort of reacting to what comes down and playing the game accordingly which frankly is how test cricket has been played for most of its 140 odd years you know you see the ball and you make your decision based on what's coming at you that's what they're going to try to do rather than be as preordained as they seem to be at times in the basball era in theory we'll see fewer headless collapses but look England were collapsing even before Basboul, so you cannot take anything for granted.

5:07And Root was actually, he was a reasonably conservative captain when he had his first crack at it. So I don't think we're going to see cricket that will keep people on the edge of their seats, put it that way. Does it make a difference that the two coaches in Fleming and McCollum are so close together? Because if one has a particular style and one is apparently going to be something very different, can that really be the case when they're essentially replacing each other? I mean they're working in different formats so that should help there should be a clear dividing line between the McCollum as white ball coach Fleming as red ball coach they know each other well don't forget they were former teammates for New Zealand overlapped for about four years at the end of Fleming's career and the start of McCollum's weirdly they run a business together importing lamb into India so they know each other both sort of on and off the field they do yeah that's a little sideline that's kept them going down the years so I think they'll communicate pretty well there was an issue when McCollum was test coach and the guy called Matthew Mott was the white ball coach he was an Australian and Mott often felt that he didn't get the best available team because the ECB were focusing on the test side now what should hopefully happen this time is we'll avoid that mistake where red ball is preferred to white ball because McCollum and Fleming get on look McCollum's white ball teams will probably play the more attacking cricket you don't need to be a genius to work that out it's the format anyway and it's the way he goes at it so the fascination will be to see how Fleming gets the Red Bull team playing In terms of the captaincy Stuart Broad was quite scathing wasn't he saying it's bad that we have to go back to Root because it suggests that there isn't really that kind of leadership in the group that you'd hope for when there's nobody really emerging Harry Brook obviously can focus on being a White Bull captain and develop his skills.

6:55But is he a future test captain or is this a disappointing sign for him that they didn't want to take that punt now? No, I think he is a future test captain. I think the issue was that because he's white ball captain now, they don't want to overload him with all three formats. They think that's undoable. There's a 50 over World Cup in late 2027 in Southern Africa, which I suspect Brook will captain the white ball teams through to that and include at the end of that tournament. And then all things going well, we'll take over as test captain Root having taken the Test team through to the end of next summer's ashes.

7:27But look, it's not a forward step, is it? It's not a step that's going to make fans go, here's a brave new world of English Test cricket. Root was the guy who, don't forget, the last 17 tests he was in charge for ending in 2022, the England 1-1 game and it ended in disaster. And that was why Basble started. Basble was a kind of reaction to the misery that was going on. It was a free hit, if you like. so Root said it himself the other day his challenge will be to shake off the prejudice that he wasn't a very good captain and I wasn't that impressed with him at the Oval against New Zealand when he stood in when Stokes was missing because of the Rex Room saga he bowled bounces at New Zealand's tail that cost them the game so whether he's changed strategically, tactically we'll find out It takes a lot I think for me to have some sympathy at the moment with the ECB But at the moment, or rather cricket coaches and people involved in this sort of test side, but at this stage I do have some sympathy, really, Lawrence, because you look at this squad and they've had to go back to people who've been tried and haven't succeeded before, such as a Dan Lawrence or an Ollie Pope.

8:42but they've also got quite a lot of that squad who are still involved in the 100 and and the 100 finishes this weekend with the the eliminators so a semi-final if you like on the Saturday and then the final on the Sunday half the bowling attack are involved in this and you're going from 100 balls to a test match in the space of three days I mean it's nothing new this point but but the schedule is absolutely unmanageable yeah it is um as you say it's nothing new that That is something they've had to get used to now. Because the ECB have put a lot of eggs in the 100 basket and need it to work for various reasons, that is why guys like Tung and Atkinson in particular have been pushed right to the end of the 100.

9:24Now, Southern Brave arrested Joffre Archer the other day, which was interesting. Southern Brave weren't in the mix for qualification, but it was good, I think, for the Test team that Archer will get some time off. England have a potentially good bowling attack. I hear what you say about some of the other guys who have been brought back. but Archer, Atkinson, Tongue and possibly Ollie Robinson if they trust his fitness again is a quartet to be reckoned with I think. I agree with you that Dan Lawrence doesn't immediately inspire confidence but he won't be asked to open like he was last time which was pretty unfair on him and he's coming in at number six and on the back of five centuries for Surrey this season Ollie Pope's an interesting one he's been kind of recalled on the back of not doing an awful lot for England but you're right, look this is not a vintage England set up and And Root's been handed not quite a hospital pass, but he's got to start from scratch almost.

10:11And that hospital pass also includes not having Stokes. And I know that's an obvious thing to say because we know he's retired. But as soon as you take Stokes out of an England team, the whole balance goes. I mean, that happened when he was injured as well. So part of the captaincy to one side, Root now has to captain an unbalanced side because the previous captain isn't there. That's right. I mean, Stokes' greatest sort of gift was that he could pick himself and it balanced the team and it gave England a kind of presence, let's face it, an aura, which we noticed at the over when he missed that second test against New Zealand, there was something missing in the field.

10:48And it wasn't that Stokes was going to solve all the problems, going to crack world peace and all that, but there was something missing and there was a charisma missing. So Root will have to deal with that. Who are the leaders in that bowling attack? Joffre Archer is in theory the attack leader, but has he ever shown the kind of presence and character to drive everyone forward in the way Stokes would? That remains to be seen. Atkinson and Tung are still relatively new in their Test careers. Ollie Robinson has Fitness Cloud hanging over him. So yeah, who are the leaders and who other people are going to get the public behind this England Test team?

11:23From my perspective, as somebody very much on the outside of cricket, listening to you talk today, it feels like there's a sense of almost being underwhelmed and disappointment around English cricket at this moment in time. what exactly would there need to be to change for there to be more positivity around it because as I say to be talking about two new moments going forward and for it to still sound so down like what more needs to be done well a new Ben Stokes would have to emerge from nowhere for a start which isn't going to happen I mean I did a piece the other day about the all-rounders and we're slightly low ebb now in replacing all-rounders we've always had these guys like Botham, Flintoff, Stokes that that sort of gravy train has come to an end for the moment that the only thing they can do is results they've got to start turning around wins um they've got to beat pakistan 3-0 pakistan probably the only team in current world cricket and more shambolic uh administratively and organizationally than england so england have to win this series well and then they have to build up to south africa and get a good result there because we're only there's what 10 a dozen tests left before next summer's ashes and whether we like it or not that is having this cricket is generally judged everything will be forgiven if england beat australia next summer but they need to get a run going ahead of that.

12:31And that's the thing, isn't it? I mean, everything now... I mean, everything is seen in Asher's cycles and has been for so long. Yes, you can throw in an India series again. And that, I suppose, is the other big issue. There is a sense of treading water sometimes, waiting for the next Asher's. I mean, obviously, here in the North, we're going to be waiting for the next Asher's for about eight years because the ECB decided we're not allowed to have a test in the north. But that is the problem. And I suppose that is not the cricketer's fault sometimes that we are in this lull waiting for the next big thing.

13:13Yeah, I mean, English cricket's always had that issue with the Ashes where if you want to attract the floating sports fan, if you like, you know, it's not like football where everyone knows what's going on all the time. You have to beat Australia. The Ashes win that the average sports fan pays attention. Now, home series against New Zealand and Pakistan are not going to shift the dial generally. They're for the cricket fans, they're for the cognoscente who are kind of working out where England stand. But no, everything is geared up towards the Ashes. We saw over the winter, didn't we? The 4-1 defeat was regarded as a sort of national sporting disaster.

13:43There was so much hope and anticipation going into that series. And when it all went wrong, cricket suddenly was in the headlines again. So I'm afraid that is the fate that English cricket has been dealt. and that's why they try to build towards these two Ashes series every four years.

14:05Let's talk a little bit more about the nuance of being a cricket captain because I think it's so different to so many of the other big national sports when you're a captain of an England football team, an England rugby team. Ben Stokes has given his first interview since he stepped down as captain speaking to for the love of cricket and with Stuart Broad and Joss Butler so let's have a look at this going through Joe's journey as captain for as long as I did seeing what he had to do especially through Covid what got put on his shoulders seeing what it took out of him the toll it took out of him the joy of cricket coming out of Joe's eyes by the end of it generally because I'm such good mates of Joe and it was it was a hard time for me to see him go through everything that he went through there and and then when he decides to step down and I've taken on I've kind of go okay well how can I flip this round there's all the extra responsibility that you is put on your shoulders as captain um the media you know the duties of that um you know four and a half years of doing all that kind of stuff it it is tough um and big thing for me was the enjoyment side of what I was doing I feel like you've always got to feel like what you're doing and what you're going through, even if it is tough, it feels warranted when you're out on the field.

15:25I just didn't think that I had too much more to give to the team or probably myself as well. I spoke with Joe when it obviously came out. I love Rudy. I wish him nothing but success. I hope he goes on and achieves amazing things in his role as captain. and I think he's going to really enjoy it with Flemm. He's a great man. I've worked with Flemm before. But I told Joe, I said my only worry is just you. As I said, leading into that, Lawrence, it is so different, isn't it, in terms of the responsibility of England cricket captain compared to those other big sports where you have that 90-minute, 80-minute job pretty much on the pitch and then everybody else takes over the other bits and pieces around the day job, if you like, later on, and you go up and collect a trophy maybe at the end.

16:21That's your main role. England's cricket captain has so much more on his shoulders. Yeah, no, fair point. I mean, it's a crazy thing, really. You can't just walk off after 80 minutes and hand the armband to the next captain and no one's that bothered. You know, it's a sort of lifestyle almost. It's a career choice. It's how you get remembered as a cricketer. I mean, it's very easy to find, for example, Joe Root's captaincy record with a couple of searches on Google. You know, these are how these guys get defined. And Root has won 27 and lost 27. He's the most victorious England test captain and the most defeated England test captain.

17:00And I think the next year will kind of dictate how he's probably remembered. If he wins back the ashes next summer, you know, all will be forgiven. Mike Gatting famously captain England in 21 tests. he won only two but they were both in the 86-87 ashes so he's remembered as a genius but he didn't win any of the other 19 so that is you know the captaincy is that there's a lot of pressure and there's a kind of cricket likes to put itself on a moral pedestal does it so you're not just the captain you have to set an example we saw that with Stokes staying out late after the first test against New Zealand and all hell breaking loose Harry Brook got punched by a bouncer in New Zealand in October, November, and that got covered up and that kick-started the whole sort of drinking issue that we have now.

17:42So the English cricket captain is judged by different standards from other sports. And again, that's part of the deal. But also it is mentally exhausting for them. And I know Joe Root last time was exhausted not only by the captain, but having to captain through COVID and how difficult that was. But sometimes when I've talked to captains or quite interestingly, sometimes Lawrence, somebody who hasn't been a captain but through injury I'll go back to the 100 you know I had a spoke to somebody who had to step in for a game for the 100 to captain the team and he was like I couldn't believe it afterwards I'm standing there in the field I'm thinking right well I know that that batter can't bat against leg spit or is weak against leg spit so I'll bring my leg spinner on but then I looked at the other end and I thought oh guy the guy at the other end is really good against leg spin so what do I do and I've only got five balls or then I could bowl them for ten balls And that is just a three-hour snapshot of it.

18:39And whilst it's not as helter-skelter in the Test Arena, there are still all those plans that are having to go through these guys' heads, particularly in the field. And that's before they even concentrate on their own game. Yeah, it's exhausting. You have to be on it the whole time. I mean, Stokes was very good in that respect, generally. He always felt like he was one over ahead of the game. And when things slipped slightly, you really noticed it. tour of Pakistan a couple of winters ago when he ended up apologizing to his teammates for not being on it um Joe Root by contrast always felt an over behind the game that was always my my worry about him um but you're making you know in a test match day of 90 overs in the field you are making 150 200 decisions at different points it's not just which bowlers to to bring on for which batsmen it's where to place the field um it's who to who to bring on at time you know that there's so much going on and I think Fleming who was an excellent captain and he led New Zealand in 80 test matches so twice as many as the next New Zealander will help Root strategically um he won't be there for this series against Pakistan Marcus Treskothic is the stand-in coach he's probably more in the root mold of old conservative English approach to cricket so be interesting to see how that goes but I think the Root thing could could dovetail reasonably well he has Joe Root um scrapped the midnight curfew, which I think points to just players taking some individual responsibility for themselves.

20:03It does seem absolutely mad, doesn't it, that grown men should be told what time to go to bed and when they can stop drinking. And although there has been also the comments come out from Stokes about the drinking culture, which is still alive and well in cricket. And Nadam, as someone who is a captain and had those responsibilities for your team, did it feel for you like it was a 90-minute job as opposed to a 365 24-hour a day job or were you monitoring drinking yeah did you put a curfew in did you put a curfew in on your ppr teammates no no no so to be honest throughout my career like the captaincy side of things firstly it was a privilege and i enjoyed doing it but there were certain parts of it which weren't as fun as others and the point you've made there gabby about putting a curfew on like adults it's it's a very dangerous thing to do because whenever I saw that I saw people always want to push push back always want to do it I understand that now because these people have been to these places say for example with football you'd go to somewhere in like the Middle East like Dubai people go on holiday to Dubai and now all of a sudden they're being told you need to be in your rooms by 10 p.m but you're in your 20s in your 30s you know that place like the back of your hand they said well no I'm not going to do that where I found the best outcomes came was when you said to people just be wary we We have training tomorrow.

21:22We have a game tomorrow. And you almost put them in the position to where if something goes wrong, they're letting the manager down. They're letting themselves down from that standpoint. And the management side, from listening to the piece we did before, I did find it more interesting that he was talking about, he lost some of the joy, but he mentioned media. And to be on this side of it now, the media side of things that I saw as captain, as a former player, it was always easy when you were winning. You know, you arrive there with a big smile on your face. But when you're a captain and your team isn't as good or not performing as well as they should do, you're the one that has to answer the questions.

21:56You're the one that is essentially having to represent the players with what you say. Because if you say something wrong, you will lose them. And if you lose them, like you as a captain, you become redundant. But if you say something too wrong, the other day, the other way, you lose the management. Because you are the point of contact with all these different parties. And to be a captain, like the game part of it is fun. You're being trusted. and when you win based on the decision you've made with the cricket captains in particular, I'm sure that feels absolutely incredible. But there is the other side.

22:27A quick reminder to catch up on all our previous episodes on YouTube, Global Player, wherever you get your podcasts. And we'd love you to subscribe and review and follow as well if you can. Now, where in world football can you find a league waging war on its players? Delia Smith being swept aside by an ambitious American and a disgraced manager staring down the barrel of a very lengthy band. The EFL, of course. And it all kicks off this weekend. And we're going to be joined by George Alec of Not The Top 20 podcast next.

23:00George, thank you very much for joining us. Can I make a little, it's a plug for your podcast, but also a little plea, first of all, if possible. So I don't know whether Gabby and Nadim are aware of this, but George and Ali, who do the pod, they predict league two league one and the championship every year before the season starts 20 going from 24th to first in each division breaking down the squad the ins and outs the managers the tactics right and also they you don't pull any punches george with with with some of the ones that you are quite scathing about honestly it is such a good listen and it is so informative and I find it so useful for the season ahead.

23:46However, I am only up, I've listened to the whole of League Two, I'm only up to eighth or seventh, I think, in League One. So I think that's Huddersfield. And I haven't got to the Championship yet. So can you not do any spoilers here? Because I love trying to guess where everybody's going to come. But honestly, please, people listening, listen to it. because it is so useful for the season ahead. Anyhow, right, so let's start with League Two then, George, because I have listened to that one. You have Salford winning League Two. Big news for them is that they've changed the colour of their kit, but the club are trying to go in, still with some familiar names, but trying to go in a different direction.

24:34Yeah, they are. Carl Robinson was sacked after they were well beaten by Notts County in their League Two playoff final. I think it shows the ambition that Salford have now as a club where last season it was all about promotion. If they failed to end promotion, it would be seen as a failure and that's why they've changed their manager. Peter Klamofsky comes in as their new boss, who was Ange Postacoglu's number two in Japan. He then had his own J League managerial career. His most recent managerial post was in charge of the Malaysian national team. So it's an interesting route to becoming Salford manager.

25:07But he comes in with a reputation to play very similar football to Bostokoglu, it's all very ultra-attacking. And they've brought in a couple of players who I don't think any other League 2 player or any other League 2 team could have attracted. McCourley Langstaff, who scored 28 goals for Notts County in League 2 a couple of seasons ago before getting a championship move to Millwall. And Luke Molyneux, who joins from Doncaster, having been Doncaster's best player last season in League 1, having been their best player when they won the league a couple of seasons ago with double figures, goals and assists.

25:35When you say attracted, do you mean afforded? Both. Do you mean afforded? I don't think, I'm not sure what would have attracted both players unless they could afford them. So I guess that plays a part in it. So could you talk to me about Rotherham then? This is a team that I played in the Championship, which feels like not that long ago. And for them to be in League Two for me seems astonishing. What do you expect for them this season? Yeah, it kind of feels like ever since Paul Warren left Rotherham in quite a good position in the Championship a few seasons ago, it's been a pretty quick slide through the leagues.

26:05You know, they are still owned by the Stewart family. Tony Stewart is still the chairman. He's kind of an old school chairman in a lot of ways. We see a lot of clubs now looking to be progressive in terms of data analytics and the way that they recruit. But he's gone the other way. They've appointed Steve McLaren as their new director of football over the course of the summer. Obviously, an elite manager at one point, former England manager, but someone who I wouldn't think necessarily knows League Two that well and has never performed this role before. So it'll be interesting to see how he gets on.

26:32His first job was to appoint a new manager and he's appointed Alex Bruce, Bruce who was formerly Carl Robinson's assistant at Salford obviously son of Steve Bruce so comes from a good coaching pedigree and in terms of the signings they've made you know Paul Mullen is a probably the most famous league one or league two player in world football he hasn't really scored many goals for the last couple of seasons but he's kind of the landmark you know the big new signing so I worry a little bit that you know I hope that Bruce in his first post is able to show what he's about he obviously comes with a good coaching pedigree but in terms of the way they're operating it all feels a little bit old school um when when now you're seeing the more kind of progressive clubs maybe the ones that are able to outperform their spend and compete at the top end let's talk league one because um there's there's a big issue going on there outside of the individual clubs and that is that the pfa have launched high court proceedings this week against the efl over the new league one wage control rules tell us a little bit more about that yeah so these they're the new kind of scmp rules so salary cost management protocol rules um that were voted through unanimously in may and by league one clubs and this is in relation to um both the means by which owners um have to effectively provide um proof of being able to to fund the club which comes in kind of a lump payment or a bond rather than being able to just prove um you know prove uh funding by means of other means and then fund the club month to month and also a shift in terms of the amount of um revenue that clubs can spend on wages which has dropped from 60 percent down to 50 percent um for relegated clubs out of the championship it remains 65 percent to help them mitigate the kind of loss of revenue that comes with relegation um and this was voted through initially but the pfa have effectively said that and there is a professional football negotiating and consultative committee, PFNCC, so many acronyms, and the PFA are part of this and the EFL have to, or they believe, have to clear it with all members, which is the PFA, the FA, the Premier League and the Football Association, in order to implement these changes.

28:39And the PFA feel like they did not approve it and therefore the implementation of these rules has been unlawful. And this comes down to the implementation of these protocols from the EFL as an attempt to reduce losses and the reliance of owner funding in the division. You know, that's a quote from the EFL themselves from back in May. But the knock-on effect is that there are far more free agents who are looking for clubs because with tighter wage controls, it means that clubs are unable to spend as much. and if you look at the PFA every summer have these trial games between three agents if you look at the teams that are currently playing in those games compared to previous summers the quality is much higher and that's because there are far more players and better players who are currently without a club.

29:25Can I ask you a question on this actually because from my perspective as a former player especially having played Premier League Championship and so on I found that the lower down league that you went the lesser there was like in terms of security for players it seems like there was a lot of player turnover every single season amongst the majority of football clubs so when the clubs decide that this is a measure that they want to bring in is this something to you know to help like sustainability and so on or is it just a way to cut costs in what feels like something that many players would say across many years that that's what they're doing the amount of players i would hear that be on trial in league one on trial in league two your salaries are getting lower you've got one year here one year there like what is this what is this drop down in percentage for who is it for why did those clubs say yes to it i mean it's an interesting point asking why the club said yes to it and I can't speak for you know the CEOs and the various board members who voted I guess there is a willingness within football to try and cost cut which also leads to you know a more sustainable future you know I support a club in Oxford United who are the one club that have been found in breach of the SEMP rules and are now under embargo and that's making us as a club face up to a reality where our very existence might be called into question and that is because we are incredibly reliant on our owner Eric Tohir to fund the club and so it's kind of shone a light I guess into an unsustainable future that we didn't really know existed.

30:47Let's talk about the championship some big beasts in there maybe the biggest of the lot West Ham have retained their captain Jared Bowen and he's obviously decided that he's going to stick to his word and and get them back up at the first first attempt they are set potentially to lose some big names but having him and obviously Nuno at the helm are they are they a dead sir I don't think so I don't think so I mean I think Bowen is you know a lot of good players have come through the championship but normally a different point in their career you know you look at Ruben Neves of course who played under Nuno in that 17-18 Wolves side or Tiogo Hota as well Jack Grealish when he came down with Villa but they're all kind of on their way up whereas it feels like Bowen is dropping to the championship at a time where he's at the peak of his powers and I can't really remember a time where a player as good as him has come down and committed their future to playing a season in the second tier um i have some concerns about them generally despite bowen and also bowen's new contract you know it's been reported that there is a break clause where if they don't get promoted this season then there will be a clause where he'll easily be bought out of that contract next summer similarly if they do get promoted i think he's in for a significant bonus um so you know he's obviously been incentivized to stay at the club for another season beyond just his clear love of the club.

32:00But if you look at recent championship seasons and you look at the way that teams have won the league, you know, Coventry and Frank Lampard was slightly different given they weren't a parachute payment club. But if you look prior to that, you've got Enzo Mareska and Leicester City, you've got Vance and Company and Burnley, Daniel Farker and Leeds. The way that clubs who get relegated from the Premier League tend to be successful the season after is to basically start again. And because there's a reason for that, it's the same reason why the likes of Russell Martin have really struggled when you get promoted out of the championship.

32:35The job for a manager, I can't think of two more different jobs than being a low-budget Premier League side and being a top-budget championship side. Like for one of them, you need a manager who's going to be, right, we're going to be really hard to break down, we're going to be compact, we're going to defend in a low block, we're going to recruit players to suit that model. Whereas at the top end of the championship, you want to dominate the ball, you want to use your huge talent advantage by generally by stopping the opposition from getting near your goal. So that's why when Burnley moved to company, when Leeds moved to Farker, when Leicester moved to Maresca, it was in order to facilitate that change.