Is Serena Williams making another comeback?

13:44Patrick Mouratoglou:Well, you're totally right. Everybody's different. And a challenge like this can work extremely well with one player not at all with another one and that's the beauty of our job is we we don't know at the start the person we get to know the person and we get to know how to motivate the person how to challenge the person and this will make the the player way better than than he or she was when you start working with that person with syri night came after a few months and when we started she was she had two very difficult years without winning a grand slam lost in the first one in rangeros and And so we started just after Rangaros.

14:21Patrick Mouratoglou:Then she won Wimbledon singles and doubles. Then she won two Olympic gold at the Olympics. And a few months later, she won the US Open. Then four months later, she won the WTA championship and came back to number one. And then she told me she was struggling to win Rangaros, a tournament that she won only once, 10 years before. And she said, I mean, clay is not my best surface. I love to plant clay, but I haven't had the same results as on other surfaces. And I want to win Rangaros, so can you please make a plan for me to win it? So that's what I did. So we started 2013 with that goal. And on the way to win Rangaros, I realized that she was winning a lot, a lot, a lot.

15:05Patrick Mouratoglou:I mean, she barely lost a match in the year between Wimbledon and Rangaros. And she needed to be challenged. and also I was thinking how to make her a better player on clay and then I came out with that idea. It was in Madrid, Masters 1000, and I said to her, okay, let's take this challenge. You're going to play only second serves and you have to win the tournament with not using your biggest weapon, which is your first serve. So she found it very exciting, interesting and she won Madrid with only hitting second serves and I think what it brought to her is an incredible confidence on clay. Even without my first serve, I can win a major tournament on clay.

15:53Patrick Mouratoglou:It pushed her to play many more rallies, which was a key element to be better when it comes to winning Rangaros. So there was a lot of potential positive income. I mean, if you would not win Madrid playing only second serves, would have been okay because she didn't use her biggest weapon. But if she wins it, then it's an incredible asset coming to her hangar. And it worked. And actually in 2013, she didn't lose one single match on clay the whole season. She won all the tournaments.

16:26Gabby:She's re-entered the International Tennis Integrity Agency's registered testing pool in the last two weeks, whatever. And she's posted saying, I'm not coming back. The wildfire is crazy. what's your gut feeling? Bearing in mind you just talk about she always wants a challenge. Do you think she's missing the challenge? What do you think?

16:49Patrick Mouratoglou:Well, I think she has a lot of challenges in her life at the moment. She has two kids. It's new. I mean, it's new. They're still young, so it's a new journey. She's doing a lot of things in business. She has her own fund, plus a lot of other things on the side. So she has challenges, but nothing will ever replace competition in tennis being number one in the world, having so much pressure. This, you know, it's tough for everyone to be away from this daily pressure. So I don't know. I cannot speak for her, of course.

17:22Ben Ainslie:I'm sure, Patrick, she's feeling great in herself because obviously there's been this much publicized weight loss and she's advertised and been a brand ambassador for GLP One. And it's something that you've spoken about because it became something of an issue in your relationship after she'd had her first baby because you were trying to get her to lose some weight after the baby that she was struggling with and you you were very clear in stressing that this wasn't about the way she looked it was about the importance on her joints and everything else that she couldn't be the very best if she wasn't in that physical shape so and I know it's a it's a tough conversation for any coach to have with any athlete in any sport and and particularly I feel the dynamic with a man and woman as well is is very different but now that she has lost so much weight and she's looking in physically great shape and you're kind of smiling because you know as an athlete the athlete's there right it's it's she's still there without now the weight she had on before do you think that's a factor that psychologically she feels she feels lighter she feels like this is

18:21Patrick Mouratoglou:something I can do well I mean you you explained it extremely well it's a difficult conversation but I had to have it with her because I think that was one of the major reason why after she had Olympia, it was more difficult for her to win a Grand Slam. She played four finals, didn't win one. With also age, you know, the joints are getting older and the weight is really a big danger in terms of injury. And plus, tennis is a sport where in which you need to be extremely fast, reactive, going from one side to the other. So even one kilo of a weight that is unnecessary is a burden. So, yeah, that was a key element.

19:06Patrick Mouratoglou:I had to have this discussion. I could have it because of the quality of the relationship we had. But it was tough conversations. And, yeah. But I had to do what I had to do. My job was to make her the best possible in tennis.

19:21Ben Ainslie:So do you think now she has lost that weight? It's feasible. She could make a comeback.

19:24Patrick Mouratoglou:I mean, Serena, Serena. You know, there is only one in the history. She's been able to achieve things in the past that I thought and everybody would think are impossible, winning a Grand Slam with 40 degrees fever the whole tournament, on the paper, it's impossible. She did it. So I would say nothing's impossible for her. Definitely being perfectly in shape, which looks like it's the case at the moment, is a big asset. I mean, she's 44 years old, which is very old for that sport. But on the other hand, she's in perfect shape. So, I mean, she's in a better position being in that shape than even younger not being in that shape for sure.

20:08Gabby:Just on where you are then, where people will be able to hear and see, you're not in a studio. You're at the Copper Box in London, which is where your ultimate tennis showdown is taking place. Part of the reason for this is, I think, Patrick, to try and get younger audiences in. so what are you doing there that grand slams aren't doing or why aren't younger audiences

20:32Patrick Mouratoglou:coming in in your view well we we tennis is a popular sport very popular sport one billion fans around the world but the fan base is very old very old 61 years old for a fan base it's old this fan base is aging every year and you know all the all the studies that are have been made on tennis just show that so that's a fact it's not even something to discuss and when you think about it it makes sense the world has completely evolved the way people consume has completely evolved evolved sorry and and we just we just created a tennis with the new codes the codes of consumption of the new generation with you know short matches fast-paced matches dj everything has been done for the young audience to like tennis and you know we we found out that 40 percent of our audience is people who never watch a tennis match the average age of our fan is 40 years old compared to 61 so 21 years younger than than the tennis fan base so we are really successful in bringing new fans for tennis i hope we can convert those fans that are uts fans to

21:53Ben Ainslie:become also tennis fans but entry level yeah exactly so so you don't want people to come and watch it and just that's it that's their consumption of tennis you you hope they will move on to the longer format a cricketing analogy would be like enjoying the hundred and then going

22:07Patrick Mouratoglou:on to watch a test match i guess yeah or you have a format in that has been created last year in golf called tgl yeah that is also built with the same idea and it's those formats are extremely successful you know and and also i think we give a better access to the players they are macked up at the every changeover they talk they show their emotions more so a lot of people are going to like i don't know rublev or rude or dominor or any of those guys and once they become fan then they're going to start to follow them also on the tennis tour patrick you met you mentioned tgl i

22:42Gabby:talked so we talked to tommy fluted about tgl and there's loads of noise when they're playing their shots and everything which then made me ask the question well why don't you just have noise when you're playing at the Open or maybe not the Masters because you're not even allowed to run at the Masters so make any noise would be a bit but do you allow noise there when players are serving and of course yeah so why don't they do that at the US Open and the Australian Open which to my mind are the two more laid-back fun events because all the habits die hard you know the you

23:12Patrick Mouratoglou:know it's all about habits we're all creatures of habits and players are annoyed when they're

23:18Ben Ainslie:Tradition, is it, rather than habits? I think sometimes tradition. Maybe we throw tradition away too quickly. And actually, hearing somebody at Wimbledon say, quiet, please. Exactly. There's something reassuring about that. And people like tradition in sport.

23:33Patrick Mouratoglou:You are completely right. And tennis and golf are two of the most traditional sports that we have. They're 100 years old. You know, it's old formats. But tennis is one of the only events throughout the year that you pay for a ticket and you're told to shut up, which is crazy when you think about it. And at UTS, people are allowed to shout during the points, express all kinds of emotions. There is a DJ between every points playing music. It's completely different. It's really an NBA. We brought NBA to tennis.

24:09Gabby:There are, aren't there, Patrick? There are a few exhibition events and innovations like yours and more stuff on the schedule. So players can't have it both ways, though, can they? They can't be moaning about how much tennis they're playing, but still then participating in the exhibitions and the innovations. It's either one or the other.

24:29Patrick Mouratoglou:I agree and disagree at the same time. So when it comes to UTS, it's not an exhibition. Players are paid only with prize money, so they compete fully. when it comes to exhibitions and I'm not here to publicize exhibitions because mine is not an exhibition, players play 50 % it's not tiring compared to a real tournament where they give 100 % when they prepare fully so they can complain about the schedule and play exhibition for me it makes sense what the players want they want to be in charge of their own schedule which is difficult on tour at the moment because most of the tournaments are mandatory and it's a lot and you see more and more injuries and this year, I mean, after the Asian swing the number of injuries was crazy.

25:18Patrick Mouratoglou:I mean, we were very sad not to have Jack Draper playing here. He was supposed to play but he's not recovered yet. But, I mean, the more we can preserve the integrity of the players the longer they're going to play, the more they're going to play the more they're going to be successful and I think we have to hear their voice. We have to help them be more in charge of their own schedule and they can still play exhibitions because, again, it's not even close to be as tiring as playing a real tournament.

25:51Ben Ainslie:Well, the ultimate exhibition is happening on the 28th of December, I think it is, the Battle of the Sexes, part two, Irina Savalenka against Nick Kyrgios, which factors into that certain things to do with their kind of physical biases, if you like. So the way the court is set out and things. What's your thought on that and whether it's needed in 2025?

26:15Patrick Mouratoglou:I mean, nothing is needed, but why not? I think that's been a conversation for 50 years. Does the conversation make sense? No. Men and women are very different physically. That's a fact.

26:31Ben Ainslie:It used to happen a lot with Serena, didn't it? Yeah. There was a lot of talk about how, you know, she could potentially beat a lot of the men on the tour if she'd wanted to.

26:40Patrick Mouratoglou:I think she could have, personally. But the discussion doesn't really make sense because, you know, you put a man and a woman on 100 meters and there is a world of difference. I mean, it's fine. But also, thanks to those differences, men tour and women tour are very different in terms of tactical because, you know, we're different physically and that's okay. There is no way to compare. Actually, this event that takes place was my idea originally. I pitched them and they stole it, but it's fine. That's life. But I think it makes sense to try to take away the physical advantage of men. Then it's very interesting because you bring equality.

27:23Patrick Mouratoglou:And it's up to the mental and the tactical. But to take away those differences, you need to really research a lot. and make it equal. And then I think that would draw a lot of interest.

27:38Gabby:Patrick, thank you very much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Hope it goes well there. Appreciate your time this afternoon. Thank you.

27:44Patrick Mouratoglou:Thank you very much for the invitation. Bye-bye.

27:47Gabby:Well, after the break, we'll catch up with four-time Olympic sailing champion Ben Ainslie and double Olympic gold medalist Hannah Mills. The America's Cup team may have lost the backing of Sir Jim Ratcliffe, but things are on the up as Team GB would just crown champions of sail GP. That's basically the F1 of sailing.

28:05Mark:The Sports Agents.

28:09Gabby:The Sports Agents.

28:11Mark:With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

28:16Ben Ainslie:Hannah Mills, Ben Ainslie, welcome to The Sports Agents. Ben, the last time we chatted to you, we were asking you...

28:23Mark:Did you just roll your eyes then, Ben, at that? Or were you trying to remember? I have very fond memories of the last time I was on your pod, actually. We were talking a lot about Manchester United. I think I remember telling you I had absolutely no idea what was going to happen. You were incredibly diplomatic, though.

28:40Ben Ainslie:You were very diplomatic about everything that was going on with INEOS and your relationship with Sir Jim Ratcliffe. And not long afterwards, everything kind of came to an end and was all kind of aired. And it's been quite the roller coaster.

28:53Gabby:You said it was probably one of the most difficult things that you've been through in a personal or a sporting perspective. Are you okay? Are you good now?

29:02Mark:Yeah, I'm okay. We went through an interesting time, which for various reasons, it's hard to go into too much detail on that. But I think the important thing is for us, we've been very clear all along. We started the America's Cup team in 2014, the goal to win it. We got to the final last year. First time, I think, in 60-odd years, we got a British team to the final. Fortunately, we didn't quite get there. And same with Hannah, with her women's team, got to the final and we'll keep going you know whether whatever the backing is we of course we need funding to get these teams to the start line and we're incredibly grateful for that but you know it's inevitable that funders might change from time to time and uh that's the nature of any any

29:40Gabby:sport so yeah we will keep marching on what what i have found hannah and i i've got a friend who works in in sale gp on this sort of overall strategy of of the event and also when i see it on the television for people that aren't really aware of it or into it it is a very forward

29:59Hannah Mills:thinking event it is like it has completely changed the face of sailing one of the few things in our sport that can cut through to people that don't understand sailing and never have you know the length of the races is only 12 minutes long the course is tiny you've got 12 boiling boats which means they're up in the air going up to 100 kilometers an hour around a very tiny race course really close to shore so if you're there just unbelievable to see these boats going that quickly so it's very forward thinking very much thinking about young fans and what they want to see and the adrenaline fueled kind of f1 on water so yeah it's amazing to be part of

30:33Gabby:does it get the balance better because i've never been to an actual event so television wise it is a good watch actually if you are there watching do you get a similar it's a different experience obviously but it is still an experience well firstly we've got to get you to an event both you and gabby trust us we're there just send us the invite that worked i've blagged that gabby that was a good that was a good tactic where's next well perv in western australia but maybe

31:01Mark:maybe maybe portsmouth this next summer that that's a better opportunity yeah small step to answer the question it's even better la i mean it's unbelievable when you like Hannah says these boats go in 100 kilometres an hour plus. And there's 12, 13 of them coming off a start line. And they're literally heading to you in the grandstands, you know, 50 metres off the shoreline. It just blows your mind.

31:24Ben Ainslie:They're the fastest boats, sailing boats on the water, aren't they? These are the F1 of sailing.

31:30Mark:Yeah, that's right. It is very, very similar to F1. Cutting edge technology, the speeds are phenomenal.

31:36Ben Ainslie:And Hannah, like F1, it's attracting a lot of glamour around it. Hugh Jackman, Ryan Reynolds, Anne Hathaway, Kylian Mbappé, Sebastian Vessel, all of them investors. I don't know how involved they are. Does it feel different? Does it feel like something that is going to have longevity and is going to achieve the ends that you want it to?

31:56Hannah Mills:A hundred percent, actually. I don't think anyone who's been there from the start can quite believe the growth of CellGP and the interest and the people that you mentioned are coming on board, wanting to own teams. And, you know, a lot of them are actually really present and there and come to quite a lot of the events. So, you know, if you're walking around, you might bump into people. So for our sport, it is changing the game, like I said. And I think for us, Ben and I as sailors growing up, knowing what it's like to be underwater as a young person and hopefully having young people see our sport and want to have a go.

32:26Gabby:I'm guessing the challenge for you as well as the strategist, Hannah, is the teams are identical, aren't they, in terms of the boats and the data that is shared. So the strategy is probably, I'm guessing, is probably one of the key bits to where you get your advantage. So that, for you, is a great challenge.

32:48Hannah Mills:Yes, it's mega. Like any team sport, you know, we've got six people on board. If any one of those people aren't doing their job to perfection, you've got a big problem on the boat. And so, you know, each person is just trying to really own their area. You know, the driver's trying to drive and not crash. I'm trying to keep my eyes out of the boat and trying to get us around the racetrack as fast as possible, looking at the other boats, looking at the wind. And then you've got a wing trimmer who's essentially the accelerometer of the boat, trying to keep it going as fast as possible. Flight controller, which is kind of a mad thing on a boat.

33:16Hannah Mills:We've got a flight controller who's literally, you know, taking the boat off and helping it fly through the air. So, yeah, but the strategist role is what I love. I love telling Dylan where to go, that's for sure.

33:29Ben Ainslie:and Ben as well as winning the first in Abu Dhabi you won a hundred thousand pound prize for sustainability as well and reading some of the things that you've you've managed to achieve there it's those kind of marginal gains are going to be recognized as as being an important part of

33:43Mark:of the whole competition yeah the impact league has been a big part of CLGP I think it's recognized around top global sports now what an impact sports can have particularly on on the young younger generations so really sustainability being at the forefront of that as a relatively clean sport in sailing but even for sailing we know that there's a lot that we can do to be cleaner and to really use technology to promote sustainability and we collaborate across all of the teams so whilst we we've done a really good job coming up with some really innovative ideas ourselves uh you know we share that with the other teams and yeah really proud of this thing with one back-to-back impact league titles last year and now this year.

34:26Mark:And then to obviously cap it off with the win on the water in Abu Dhabi was a really special moment for the team.

34:31Ben Ainslie:And there is a focus on females as well. There has to be at least one woman on every boat. And Anne mentioned Anne Hathaway. She, I think, is the owner of the Italian team. So that's also important, I think, for the visibility, isn't it, of possibility.

34:46Hannah Mills:Yeah, 100%. I think sailing for me has always been such an amazing sport for mixed opportunity and especially at this top level. Competing together on an equal platform is massive. And I think for young people seeing that, it's so inspirational. And then strong female owners coming in and pushing that narrative as well. I think as a whole, Sergi P's in a really good place. There's always more we can do and there's always more we want to do. But I think, yeah, as a platform to share equality, it's in a really strong place.

35:13Ben Ainslie:I was going to say but just before we went actually Chappers we've been invited to Portsmouth okay fine I just wondered where else where else we might be able to dip in I'm just going to look at my calendar when I say goodbye to you today

35:24Hannah Mills:You don't want to come to Portsmouth okay we've got some good ones Sydney potentially going back to Geneva next year which was pretty special

35:32Mark:Rio down to some cocktails on the beach in Rio

35:35Gabby:always a good one okay normally how these things work is I'll see you both in Portsmouth and Gabby will see you in Rio so that's

35:43Ben Ainslie:With respect, Portsmouth, third round of the FA Cup mainly. But if I'm talking sailing, I'm looking for something that involves a pair of sunglasses and maybe some bare shoulders. So let's try and aim a bit higher. Thank you so much, guys. Lovely to talk to you both. Thanks, guys.

36:06Gabby:Please do get in touch with us, thesportsagentsatglobal.com or message us via social media or via link in the show notes.

36:13Ben Ainslie:New episodes every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Thanks for listening.