Sledging, idols & rivals: Tuffers' Love Letter to The Ashes

10:48Gabby Logan:The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

10:54Phil Tufnell:Phil Toffner, welcome to the pod.

10:57Gabby Logan:Thanks for having me. Lovely to be here.

10:59Phil Tufnell:So you've written a book, have you?

11:00Gabby Logan:Yes, yes. You've written it?

11:02Phil Tufnell:Yeah.

11:03Gabby Logan:Well, no, me and my mate sit down and have a glass of wine and he puts the full stops and the quavers or whatever they're called in place, you know what I mean? The quavers? Is it a musical? Oh, no, no, no, quavers. What are they called? Commas, not quavers. Commas, not quavers.

11:21Mark Pougatch:Is this book sponsored by a crisp manufacturer? Yes, it would be a good idea. Because I was just regaling you with some of the things that had really kind of tickled me and the Blunston boot story.

11:32Gabby Logan:I know, always amazes me, always amazes me, the Aussies, especially Glenn McGrath.

11:36Mark Pougatch:Explain a bit more on that one.

11:37Gabby Logan:Well, they're like a rider, aren't they? Yeah, yeah. Or a workman sort of boot like that.

11:41Mark Pougatch:Very kind of tough.

11:42Gabby Logan:Very tough.

11:43Mark Pougatch:In the outback, you'd be able to ranch some cattle.

11:46Gabby Logan:Absolutely. You know, and it's always about, you know, it's red hot in it usually in Australia and you've got these shorts on and then you always see the guys with these boots on. I've never quite understood it. You know, I'm wearing flip-flops or what have you. You always see Glenn stomping in with these shorts on and these great big workman's boots in there. But I think they're a big part of Australian society.

12:08Mark Pougatch:I think they know what they're doing because big spiders can't get in those boots, can they? Absolutely, yes.

12:13Gabby Logan:And as you said, if you're out in the wilds a bit, you know what I mean? What I love, though, is the detail.

12:19Mark Pougatch:You don't get this. And I'm at the moment reading tons of books, the William Hill Sportsbook of the Year. I'm not saying this won't get on the long list next year. But the detail in this, in terms of your memories, is just beautiful. It's so evocative.

12:32Gabby Logan:Well, yes. I mean, well, I decided to do it, as you say, Ashes coming up as well. You know what I mean? Very exciting, going over there shortly. And it's sort of like a love letter, a love letter to the Ashes, really. You know, I mean, I can remember when I was growing up, you know, watching it. And I never quite understood until I played. You know, everyone said, oh, it's a little bit special. It's a little bit, you know, more elevated than everything else. And I said, well, you know, well, it's just like playing for your country. You play your country against anyone and it means the same. But it is a little bit different.

13:01Gabby Logan:You know, when you get off of that plane, you are literally taking on all layers of Australian society from the bloke who picks up the garbage in the morning from the bloke who does who's in the customs hall to the bloke who opens the door at the hotel. You are taking on the whole country. So it is that little bit different. And it shocked me. So I just decided to write a book about it.

13:25Phil Tufnell:Did you enjoy taking on all aspects of Australian society? Because, look, obviously it was a different era. You weren't taking on thousands of people on a phone. No. The interaction was more personal than that.

13:36Gabby Logan:Absolutely. When you first land in Australia, you have to, I mean, we were sort of shuffled off to some sort of posh part, you know, away from the airport and what have you. But the custom guy has to then check the bottom of your cricket boots have been cleaned properly because they don't want to bring any bugs in or anything or diseases. You know what I mean? And so I'd be there for about 25 minutes. And he was a very nice Australian chap, you know. And I opened my case and he had a good look at my boots and everything, made sure there was no mud on them or anything like that. And he said, oh, well, you're clear to go, Mr.

14:11Gabby Logan:Tufnall. All the very best. You're pommy so-and-so. You know what I mean? And I thought to myself, what? As I was walking out, you know what I mean? I'd been there 25 minutes and I've already got a little sledge as I walked out, but all in the best possible taste.

14:26Mark Pougatch:You talk about sledging, actually, which is, we'll get onto that maybe. But you also, just alluding to kind of what you said there, you talk about this being different to playing for just England against somebody else. And you compare it in other sports to, as a footballer, you'd want to play against Brazil or Germany. You know, those are the moments you kind of think this is the upper echelons of international football, if you like. It's nostalgia as well. Well, everything.

14:48Phil Tufnell:For all of us, because it takes us back to our early memories. Absolutely.

14:55Mark Pougatch:Everybody's got a series that they remember. It might be the first time that it really kind of hit them what the ashes was. Yes. You know, no matter kind of how old they are.

15:03Gabby Logan:Well, I'm afraid I've got a bit of a dirty secret, really, that my hero when I was growing up as a lad, I'm afraid, was an Australian, you know, and that was Dennis Lilley, you know, the great Dennis Lilley of Lillian Thompson, you know, and they just seemed to be having a bit more fun than the English boys. Do you know what I mean? They had the sort of, you know, you've never been attracted to fun.

15:26Mark Pougatch:Well, no, that's right.

15:28Gabby Logan:And they did, you know, Dennis used to have that great big tash, didn't he? You know what I mean? Long sort of dark hair and that sort of open neck shirt medallion. He looked like a chap that sort of like my dad's friends. You know, they'd always come round. They'd always come round perhaps driving a Triumph stag, you know, and be called Ron. You know what I mean? Here they come.

15:50Mark Pougatch:Whereas the England team of that era would be more like gentlemen.

15:53Gabby Logan:Well, that's right. Perhaps, you know, Colin Cowdery and everything like that. When these guys just looked a little bit more sort of rough and tough. So, yeah, that really sort of pricked my interest in it as a boy. I mean, I remember sitting there. That was late 70s, you know, sitting there and just, and it was sun, the sun was shining and everything looked bright. You know what I mean?

16:11Mark Pougatch:Well, the weather comes into it when you talk about Phil De Freitas as well, because you're absolutely freezing in your flat, wherever you're living at the time. Watching your pal in the sunshine. Yeah. So it seemed the weather was a motivator to get your arse into gear, if you excuse my language. Yes.

16:25Gabby Logan:Well, I'd been on the MCCYCs with Phil De Freitas and we'd sort of gone through that and done well. and then I think we both played for Middlesex. I got signed by Middlesex. Phil then went on to Leicestershire, had a really good year and I was sort of going, well, hold on a minute, you know, I might be able to achieve this as well. There's my mate. I'm sitting there in my flat, three o 'clock, four o 'clock in the morning, freezing cold and there's Phil De Freitas, my mate who I played with as a youngster, you know, at the Gabba, beautiful sunshine, you know, arm in arm with beefy and lamby and everyone's having a beer.

17:02Gabby Logan:I'm going, bloody hell, I want some of this. You know what I mean? As I'm sitting there with my cup of tea, I thought to myself, well, hold on a minute, this could be achievable. That was a real sort of moment in my head where I went, dang, you know, that's my mate.

17:15Phil Tufnell:But then when you did get selected for the tour, and I love it when you tell this story, when you get to the, again, very different times when you get to the hotel.

17:26Gabby Logan:Yeah. You see, in those days, you know, the big guns, they were away playing for England and what have you. So I was doing my bit in county cricket, had done well, had been selected for the tour in 1990. And you don't really, you know, get any recognition for it. I mean, I've got this little card coming through saying, Phil, you are selected to play. And so off I went, you know, and you think, oh, my God, this is really happening, you know. And then I've turned up at the hotel and they didn't particularly know who I was. I was the young up and coming spin bowler like that. And they said, right, get there Friday evening, Saturday morning.

17:59Gabby Logan:we're all going to go off for the great adventure. So I turned up there, got there about seven o 'clock, I thought early night, and get myself to bed, got there about seven o 'clock, I put Bargain Hunt on or something, and then went, well, this is a bit boring. So I went down to the bar, and there they all were, you know, the likes of Smith, Lamb, Wayne Larkins, and all these guys who I didn't particularly know. So I said, I'd better go and introduce myself, because I hadn't played against any of them like that, and I'm standing behind them like that, for what felt about 10 minutes. And they were having a pint and having a laugh.

18:33Gabby Logan:And then all of a sudden, Alan Lamb swivelled round on his bar stool and he's gone, all right, son, would you like an autograph? And I went, no. I said, no, I'm your left arm spinner. I'm coming with you. And he said, oh, are you? I've never known who the bloody hell are you. You know what I mean? And then they sort of went, well, you better come and have a pint then, lad. you know and so I sat down there at a pint and then for the next two two and a half months it was like the best club 18 or 30 holiday I've ever been on it was everything you dreamed of it was

19:09Mark Pougatch:everything I'd ever dreamed of your your heroes uh the ashes heroes yeah you know there's a real range of why they're your heroes from pure kind of cricketing reasons and you know the way you talk about Shane Warne is just well beautiful you know somebody that's on another planet but also has that swagger which you really admired as well.

19:27Gabby Logan:Absolutely. I mean, I must admit, if I do look back at my time playing in it, they seem to just have the swagger on us a little bit, you know. We used to get off the plane and we did used to think to ourselves, well, listen, we have to be at our best and they have to have a little off day because you'd go down that side that we was coming up against and you just felt that they were a little bit better. And they were excellent at sort of showing it, you know. So Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, they could turn you to stone, you know, in front of 100 ,000 at the MCG.

19:59Mark Pougatch:Ricky Ponting never knowing when he was beaten.

20:01Gabby Logan:Well, absolutely. So they did have the sort of wood on us a little bit. I mean, it's changed now. We're going down there this winter with a little bit, with a good chance. But yeah, but I mean, just those kind of things were great. I made my debut at the MCG, you know, in front of 110 ,000. I don't think they'd allow that these days, you know, like a duty of care. you know I don't think they they'd shove some little bloke out you know I just went oh my god this is unbelievable and there again if we've got time another little story about that that's when they had Australian umpires they weren't neutral umpires right and so it was like playing against 13 men anyway you know we didn't get any decisions or anything and uh when I bowled I used to have a little sort of tick that after about three or four bowls I used to turn to the umpire and say how how many balls left in the over-ump, you know?

20:51Gabby Logan:And so there was this chap called, I think his name was Peter McConnell. And so, you know, I've just bowled my first two overs, don't particularly remember, you know, what was going on. And then I started getting into it a little bit. And I turned to him on my third over. And as I walked past him, I said, how many left in the over-ump? And again, he turned around and said, count them yourself, you pommy bastard. And I went, what? And I went, what? You can't say that. Gucci came running over said you can't talk to my player like that and he said I can do what I bloody like mate now get on with the game you know what I mean and so all of these things all of a sudden sort of like came into my head that Christ you know this is a different game you know I played a little bit before then and what have you but this is just another level.

21:39Gabby Logan:Were you nervous when that ball was thrown

21:41Phil Tufnell:because so many elite sports men and women tell us that actually this is what they've trained all their life to do they are ready for this the training kicks in whatever it may be the mentality kicks in yeah but when you are thrown that ball yeah at the mcg for that first

22:02Gabby Logan:were you were you bricking it absolutely well i can't as i said i i can't actually really remember what i can remember is that just the noise and the size of the g i mean it's huge and i can remember gucci throwing me this kookaburra ball with no seam on it all it had was just dots where the seam had all been scuffed away all the quarter seam had sort of loosened and sort of given way and i just remember looking at this ball going what the hell am i going to do with this you know oh my god and i looked up and i think it was alan border and dean jones and i bowled the first couple of balls i don't remember the first couple of balls i think you just go slightly on autopilot and you just go through your your sort of method your process to get lucky to get it down the other end actually but then third ball dean jones came running down the pitch and he whacked one back at me and i wasn't the best fielder off me known bowling and i've sort of threw a foot out on it and it caught me right on the um the ankle point or you know the ankle point inside ankle point like that and i've got like that and it's all it sort of woke me up you know and i sort of realized where i was and then i finally sort of went, right, Christ, you know, from that bit of pain, it sort of like shook me back into where I actually was.

23:20Gabby Logan:Don't remember the first two deliveries I bowled. The critiquing gods were giving you a little reminder

23:23Mark Pougatch:that you needed to wake up there and just get in the moment.

23:26Gabby Logan:The first two balls were all right, though. They managed to get down the other end. Good, good.

23:30Mark Pougatch:On this current series, or the series just ahead of us, Steve Smith back to captain. Oh, yeah, we should ask a question on that. In the first test. That'll be interesting.

23:39Gabby Logan:Yeah, well, very good captain. Great player. Fantastic record in Australia as well. Averages on that bloody 70 or something. So he'll be right up for it in a funny sort of way. If you were going to pick who was the best captain out of Pat Cummins and Steve Smith, I'd probably go for Steve Smith. I mean, they're losing him as a Tanners Manic figure and a great bowler. He'll be back probably second or third, perhaps third. But yeah, that's going to be no disadvantage for the Aussies having him. If anything, Steve Smith is a slightly more aggressive and a slightly, sorry, Pat, but I'd say a slightly more tactical aware captain.

24:16Phil Tufnell:We go down there, though, don't we, with a terrible recent record. At the last 15 tests down there, we've lost 13 of them and drawn the other two. So that is the size of the task for England.

24:31Gabby Logan:Absolutely. It's difficult to win away whatever country you're in, let alone Australia. But I'm going down there quite confident, which is a strange position to be anyway. I'm feeling that we've got a good side. It's the first time that we have got a pretty settled side. Our top seven is as good as anyone. And I think we've got some bowling that we can rotate through the test matches, the likes of Wood and Archer, these guys, Pace and what have you.

25:00Phil Tufnell:Pope or Bethel at three?

25:02Gabby Logan:I've got a feeling it might be Bethel, but I would perhaps stick with Ollie Pope. OK. Yeah, because then where do you go if Bethel doesn't do so well? Pope would have been, you know, his confidence would have been down. So I'm going to go with Pope. But it's the first time you used to go down and play Australia, and they were just so rock solid. You knew their top seven. You knew who their bowlers were. You just knew what you were going to go. This time, they're a little bit up in the air. They don't know who their top three are. They don't know who perhaps their late middle order is. They're bowling now with Cummings, isn't there?

25:32Gabby Logan:So there's just that little bit of sort of unease in their side.

25:36Mark Pougatch:And Joe Root, incredibly, has never scored an Ashes century in Australia. So for him, you know, when he looks back at the incredible things he's done in his career, that's going to be something he wants to kind of correct, isn't it?

25:47Gabby Logan:Absolutely. I mean, the Aussies, it's already started all the banter, you know. You know, I mean, I've been listening to him on all the pods and what have you. They're all going, oh, Joe Root never scored 100. That is a box ticking exercise. Listen, his second leading test run scorer in the world did it this year, beating Ponting and all these guys. But you're right. That will be at the back of his mind that he'll just say, fine, get one or two hundreds down there. So that will make him even more determined to do it. I think if he does, we're going to have a great, you know, if he's on that kind of form, if he's on that kind of form, the basballers around him can just flourish, you know.

26:24Gabby Logan:So he'll be targeted for sure. And then, you know, if he gets himself a couple of hundreds, Harry Brook in sparkling form and these guys, they can take it to the Australians. The Australians don't like Baz Ball, as it's called. It's been tweaked a little bit and toned down a little bit, but they've got the ump with Baz Ball. They don't quite like it and it unsettles them, I think, a little bit. So those first couple of test matches are going to be crucial. It does have to be toned down, though, doesn't it, for this tour?

26:49Phil Tufnell:Yes. It has been toned. They have been a bit more pragmatic in recent tests.

26:53Gabby Logan:Yeah, you've got to get yourself over the line, haven't you? And you just get another feeling that, you know, everything that Stokes and McCullum now has done in the last, what is it, I don't know, three, four years or something, you know, it's all sort of like built to this, you know. And so this is a real, you know, you just get the feeling that the time is right. As you say, Joe Root, Archer and Wooda fit, you know, Ducats batting brilliantly, you know, and all these little cogs, Smith coming in at seven, all these little pieces have been put into the jigsaw just for Australia and you just feel that they're all fit, they're all raring to go.

27:26Phil Tufnell:If people are watching this on YouTube, is that a can of Guinness? No, I'm afraid not. It's a bit early in the morning.

27:32Gabby Logan:No, it's sparkling water. Oh, right.

27:34Phil Tufnell:I know. For the last five minutes, I thought, is he on the Guinness? No, that would have been nice, wouldn't it?

27:38Gabby Logan:It's a little half.

27:39Mark Pougatch:When does your kind of warm-up start? When do you go down there?

27:45Gabby Logan:Well, I've decided just to acclimatise. I'm going there four or five days beforehand just to get into the swing of it. No, that's right. So I'm looking forward to going down there and having a chat. You know, it's just a wonderful place to go. The people are great. I love them. The Australians are great. The beaches, the weather, the way of life. It really suits me. I love it. And the cricket's fantastic.

28:08Mark Pougatch:I think we've touched on about 38 of them, but 50 of Tuffer's Ashes Heroes are covered here in the book, which we think he wrote or he had I can't No

28:18Phil Tufnell:I did about to be turned into a musical Yeah you definitely did write

28:23Mark Pougatch:because there's way too many personal anecdotes in here for you not to have been involved

28:26Gabby Logan:The pigs made it as well as you say the umpires are in there the crowds are in there it's just not the individuals No it's great it's a really

28:33Mark Pougatch:genuinely a really lovely read and I and I's really kind of got the juices going I think in terms of the excitement levels that you know we've all got for this fashion series

28:41Gabby Logan:Get up early and watch it

28:42Mark Pougatch:Thank you for coming on Cheers

28:44Gabby Logan:The Sports Agents

28:48Gabby Logan:The Sports Agents With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman

28:56Mark Pougatch:Never tire of spending an hour or so in the company of Phil Tuffman and I got to do it twice because we pre-recorded that and then he came on The One Show which I was hosting that night and it's interesting he gave a very different persona to The One Show he's such a pro. What was he on The One

29:10Phil Tufnell:Show then?

29:11Mark Pougatch:He was on The One Show talking about his book.

29:13Phil Tufnell:Yeah, but what was his persona? He cut his stories down.

29:16Mark Pougatch:He didn't do the sweary stroke, slightly more salacious bits or inferences. But he was still funny and charming. Sat next to Tom Daly, Elle Fanning, the actress. And so you can imagine that's quite a sofa there. And they all got on brilliantly. And I thought that's the magic of the one show that toughers and Elle Fanning are chatting.

29:35Phil Tufnell:And what was the feature? 10 best ways to use elephant poo or something? What was it? What was it on that one?

29:41Mark Pougatch:Do you know what? But we actually allowed them to just kind of chat. And he had one, VT. Yeah. Did you know Elle Fanning? You'll like this. Her granddad was the quarterback for the Eagles. Her auntie did my job, effectively. She was a kind of a female sportscaster. The family's steeped in sporting kind of, you know, legend. Wow. I said, gosh, you must be such a disappointment to your parents. And she was laughing. Toughers and Tom Daly were loving that. So, yeah, it's a very kind of interesting show to do because you do sometimes find these conversations going in directions you never thought you'd see Phil Tufnell and a Hollywood kind of A-list actress having a chat.

30:17Mark Pougatch:But he was brilliant, wasn't he? Now, chappers. In the Match of the Day office, sometimes, the conversation, because a few of our colleagues are involved in it, turns to the baller league. And I've heard, you know, our producer here, Adonis, talking about it and Mike obviously is involved. But it doesn't come across my radar. It's not on my algorithm.

30:36Phil Tufnell:It's not aimed at us, though, is it?

30:37Mark Pougatch:No, it's not. It's not aimed at us. and is kind of capturing the imagination of a lot of kids. And there's this thing at the moment going on about the masked player. Have you seen this? No. One of the players is wearing a mask and people are kind of, you know, coming up with conspiracy theories.

30:52Phil Tufnell:Like a literal mask or like the masked singer where they're dressed as a rhino or something.

30:58Mark Pougatch:No, like a kind of gimp mask.

31:04Mark Pougatch:Oh, Reuben, I'm sorry.

31:06Phil Tufnell:Here we go again.

31:08Mark Pougatch:so there are rumors that it is mudrick uh who could be inside the mask yeah i mean i i doubt very much uh he may well be in trouble uh but i don't think he's in that much trouble um but you know maybe if you're on this weekend you can kind of find out who it's going to be but they apparently fall out i mean i've seen the clips of them all falling out about things and it gets

31:31Phil Tufnell:quite heated and quite serious so like really though like really serious or pantomime serious like we're paying you a lot of money to do this can you kind of i don't think they like losing

31:41Mark Pougatch:these guys john terry doesn't like losing you know and alan sheara doesn't like losing no um

31:45Phil Tufnell:yeah i feel like i need to know a bit more about it back in the uh in the 2000s sky did a ex footballer slash celebrity five a side tournament for a couple of years i played in that alongside We played Darren Campbell, Ray Wilkins, I think, Arthur Olberstyn for a Manchester United team. And in the quarterfinals, I think of that, we played Manchester City in the quarterfinals. We beat them on penalties. I'm only telling this story because I got the winning penalty. And I can remember McAteer had really wound me up during the game as a pundit on the sideline. And a bit like Micah and Wrighty, I absolutely lost it with him.

32:30Phil Tufnell:I can remember properly, uncomfortably thrusting in his direction. I mean, that winning penalty sounds glorious, but you sort of have to take into account that I only got to take the winning penalty because Nigel Bond, the snooker player, had missed for Manchester City, who you wouldn't, it's not the biggest celebrity name, or a particularly good footballer. But that was my moment of glory.

32:55Mark Pougatch:And now Football Manager is out. The 25 version was cancelled. So fans of Football Manager, I think you are, Chappers. Yes, absolutely. I've been made to wait. I totally forgot to tell you this. I'm in it. You're in it? Yes. I did a bit with Daniel Sturridge. And yeah, I'm involved in it. How? What do you mean, how? Well, I mean, how? What? A clip of you? A video of you? What? Yeah, we did this. We did a bit of analysis. and I literally just signed a release form this morning, which reminded me, oh yeah, I forgot I did that. Yeah. So we've done something for it. Now, the very early version of Football Manager, we must be going back 2000, early 2000s.

33:35Phil Tufnell:Yeah.

33:35Mark Pougatch:I did some of the voiceover for the action and it was how I got to meet Chris Martin because I recorded it in Abbey Road Studios and in the canteen for lunch, I got chatting to this Scouse guy who's a big Liverpool fan behind me. Turns out he was the sound engineer for Coldplay and they were just mixing their second album. He said, do you want to meet Chris Martin? So I went in and had a chat with Chris Martin, just me and him in the studio because none of the other band were there. And he said, oh, do you want me to sign our first album, Parachutes, for you? And he signed it to Stephanie Gerrard, Lots of Love, Michaela Owen.

34:06He said, because he's a bit esoteric.

34:10Mark Pougatch:He said, random. He said, well, they're the only footballers I really know. He said, so, and he turned them into girls' names. So I've still got this kind of, it's like art almost, isn't it, really? Yeah, is it framed? I should have framed it, shouldn't I? Chris Martin signing as two well-known Premier League footballers, but turning them into women. Yeah. Random story for you there.

34:30Phil Tufnell:It is, actually, yeah. When I manage Altrincham into the Champions League and I get you a bit of analysis with Daniel Sturridge, I will then think of Chris Martin, bizarrely. I'm not quite sure how he ended up there.

34:41Mark Pougatch:And make sure you subscribe or follow so you don't miss Friday's episode. Now, did you know deaf athletes aren't allowed to compete at the Paralympics? That means they get no funding and they've got their own competition with flashing lights, replacing start guns and so many more adaptations. Well, we're going to be speaking to two swimmers who are hoping to bring home the medals for Team GB at the Deaflympics.

35:01Phil Tufnell:Remember, you can always get in touch with us at sportsagentsatglobal.com or message us on social media or via the link in the show notes.

35:08Mark Pougatch:Thanks for listening.

35:09Phil Tufnell:This has been a Global Player original production.