Weekend Edition: Can England's Red Roses pick up where the Lionesses left off?

0:02Gabby:This is a Global Player original podcast. Far from your average weekend edition of the podcast this week, it's all about the Women's Rugby Union World Cup that starts today. This is for the girls who were told this game wasn't for them. For the girls who laced up their boots when no one was watching. For the girls who refused to be defined by limits. Who ran towards obstacles. This is for you. Roses! All of you. This is for the girls. Yeah, over 375 ,000 tickets have already been sold for the 32-match home tournament, which is a record. And the final is sold out at Twickenham as well. So it is already going to be the biggest ever.

0:45And of course, England's Red Roses are hoping they can avenge their narrow defeat in the final against New Zealand back in 2021.

0:53Gabby:So earlier this month, Gabby got inside Twickenham to sit. That makes me sound like you broke in. Chased that. Earlier this month, Gabby went to Twickenham to sit down with some key members of the England team for an insight into the mood in the camp, the pressures of hosting the tournament as favourites and the chance to inspire a whole new generation of rugby fans. Welcome to the Sports Agents.

1:21Gabby:The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

1:28Gabby:Hello, Mark. Hi, Gabby. We've had a good week, haven't we? We have, indeed. I really enjoyed Tuesday's episode, chatting a little bit about the newbies and who'd come out on top in terms of those signings over the summer for the first weekend in the Premier League. I don't think there was a voice in the land that wasn't in agreement who that was. No, Tajani Rinders had this dream debut for Manchester City. So Andy Brassel joined us to talk about the way European teams are developing players with an eye on selling them to the richest Premier League clubs. We always talk about there being a big leap to the Premier League.

2:06Gabby:Well, actually, because these clubs are saying we really need, it's an imperative to go get that money. We don't want to sell to Spanish clubs. They haven't got any money. Let's sell to Premier League clubs. So let's create players who are, and Constance I was criticised for it by some traditional Porto fans. We don't want players who are six foot two and clatter other players. We want little wizards. Well, you know what? That's not what sells. So maybe we have to create something else. I thought that was absolutely fascinating. And it's made me already, because I did the Rangers qualifying game on Tuesday.

2:37It's already made me think about how I watch the teams around Europe differently this season. Definitely won't be anybody from Rangers being picked out to come and play in the Premier League just yet. because that was a woeful performance.

2:49Gabby:Yeah, it wasn't a great performance. Did you throw that into the discussion at any point? Because I can already see you and me. Now Andy has mentioned that. I reckon between us, we'll probably mention it in double figures over the course of conversations on the various stuff that we're doing. I discussed it with my pundits, which was Scott Arfield and Alan McGregor, prior to going on air, you know, had a little chat about this, but it never really came up because of the way the match panned out. But I definitely feel it will, especially what he was saying about Ajax and the Dutch teams in particular.

3:23And I'm sure, as you say, we will have an eye on that as the season progresses.

3:27Gabby:We also had Jamie Murray on the pod this week because they've had the mixed doubles at the US Open. They've had it before the main tournament starts and some people have described it as an exhibition with some of the big name singles players playing in this. increased prize money as well so there's a bit of controversy that they've taken the places of regular doubles players on the circuit so Jamie gave us his view on that you know be essentially like going to the world cup and watching like 15 minute halves basically whatever I think the scoring format was was ridiculous especially in terms of a grand slam but again to get the top player participation they needed to make it short and sweet because they don't the players wouldn't be interested in playing for three four nights or playing for hours on end before the singles has even started and they needed to ramp up the money massively in order to get all these stars of the game playing which they did and they turned out and you know by all accounts for people in the stadium i'm sure they enjoyed seeing you know some of the all the great players on the court together at one time like why would you not enjoy that but it's just so contrived uh i think it was clear wasn't it really that you know although he's kind of trying to see both sides of this that he doesn't want this to become the norm no but it would i mean just from a um just from a livelihood point of view there are a lot of players who will have missed out on money from not being able to take part in the mixed doubles at the US Open because of the way that they structured it.

5:07Gabby:And they don't get the millions that the top singles players get. So their livelihood for a lot of these doubles players is a threat. Yeah. And it's interesting. On the one hand, they're saying, oh, look, look how exciting the doubles is. But then on the other hand, they're kind of making those players feel that they're not wanted. And those big individual players are doing it clearly because it's a decent payday. They're not going to be progressing their doubles careers, are they, after this? So it does look a bit cynical from the outside. And then the other thing we had on the pod, because we have Arsenal fans on the production team, they've just wanged on the whole week about Eberic Chiese, so here's Clive Palmer.

5:49Gabby:It's a very happy day, not just because of the Schadenfreude with Spurs fans, because I'm a mature person, Cathy, but he just fit us so much, and there's a story there isn't there there's a story behind it and we all like that story and it helps us a bit of romance all right it really does you know when i was thinking about early in the summer i think where's he going to play tactically where's he going to where's he going to stand and i thought you know what i don't care anymore i think sometimes you have to look beyond the profile the perfect profile for how we used to play and bring somebody in with the the gravitas to say we're going to play this way that clive palmer by the way i should say because that was a that wasn't a very generous introduction to him I gave Gabby from the Arsenal Vision podcast I mean they are absolutely I think I think to use a John Murray phrase on 5 Live cock a hoop aren't they they are my son is an Arsenal fan Ruben and I'm not arguing with him he came through immediately to show me his social media which was totally directed to Spurs fans he was very happy with himself at about 10.30 on Thursday evening.

6:55Gabby:So let's get into the Women's Rugby Union World Cup then Gabby which starts this podcast drops on a Friday so it starts out with England against the USA so give me a take on that but then the overall feel in that England squad when you went to Twickenham. Yeah USA have in the past they've won it they've been in finals before but they're not one of the top ranked teams in the tournament this time they do however have one of the players who has kind of captured the imagination globally more than any other, Ilona Meyer, who's got the most social media following, the biggest social media following, male or female in world rugby.

7:27So they've got Stardust and they have got some great players and it's England's opening game. I think it's a great opening fixture at the Stadium of Light. I think, you know, when I kind of knew that's what it was, I was involved in the draw, actually. I thought that is genius. And obviously the Stadium of Light at the time, I thought that's an interesting choice for the opening game, not rugby union hot and Sunderland. And obviously Sunderland had a brilliant start to the Premier League season. The Stadium of Light was just electric. And I'm hoping we're kind of going to get that again. But actually chatting to people around the game, you know, they really love it going out to the regions like this, which it will do through the tournament until the final at Twickenham.

8:00And I think it's going to be just a brilliant, brilliant night, you know, sold out. And I think England obviously come into this on this unbelievable run. The last game they lost was the final and they've gone 58 games now with just that one defeat. So they are the absolute favourites for this tournament. So I went down to Twickenham, where they had their big press day, their big launch when they launched their squad and all their players were there and some guys doing media. And I was able to sit down with a woman who has now, well, she will do from tonight, will play in five World Cups, the only player in world rugby, male or female to do that, Emily Scarrett.

8:35And alongside her, a woman who had her fair share of disappointment, not making it for the last World Cup, Natasha Mohunt as she's known who of course is the scrum half and she's really battled her way back over the last couple of years and we had a really good chat

8:56I feel like if I say Mo and Scazz that's too informal okay so Natasha and Emily great to see you both on the day that the squad is officially announced for the World Cup so first things first whether or not you kind of expected to be in it or not, congratulations. That must always be a relief when you hear your name. Thank you very much. You want to take that one? After last time. Yeah, exactly. I mean, certainly for me, I think I would never, ever take it for granted. I think, obviously, the last one was a bit of a shock, which was very well documented for myself and probably everyone else. So, yeah, I think every time it comes around, it's just an absolute honour, to be honest.

9:31And, like, Scazzi's one of the only ones, the only one that was lucky enough to do it last time out at a home World Cup. So, yeah, it's pretty special. And a World Cup winner, obviously. as well five world cups now emily scarrett nobody has done that wearing the rose man or woman before that's amazing really i didn't know that um yeah it's weird isn't it like you never set out for these things um you just put your head down enjoy what you do and kind of i personally then see what happens and yeah now here we are a long way down the track and staring down a potential fifth world cup which is i keep calling it potential because it still seems a little way away.

10:06It's not though. No I know but we officially had our last day of pre-season today which we're all absolutely buzzing about because it's been a slog. What has pre-season been like? Give us a flavour of just how hard the fitness is. It's been a bit of a mixed bag obviously there's been like just running elements there's been kind of almost how would you call it like circuit conditioning there's been some gym stuff there's obviously been as we've started to increase the rugby bit the physical side of stuff in terms of like the contact conditioning all that sort of stuff and then it's it's kind of just time on feet like lots of sessions two three sessions sometimes on a morning another one backed up in the afternoon so it's just like that repetitive nature of it but it's been awesome and obviously with it being the English summer and actually we've had a half decent one it's also been roasting so you get that added bit when you're working really hard and obviously yeah the sun's been out it's been dead competitive as well like we've had a lot of competition whether it's like in four different teams three different teams or two different teams.

11:01So it's been really driving that out of us, which has been super fun, to be fair. I enjoy that side of it. So yeah, it's been rough, but it's been really cool. Luckily, we've been on the same team as well, so there's been no kind of extra niggle. And you point to the fact that Emily's experienced a home World Cup. How much has that been a big buzz, a big motivator, and a feeling within this squad of women that this is such a huge opportunity for this team? I think it's huge. You only have to look at, we keep referencing it, but why not? Because what the Lionesses did with the home Euro, and the way that that just magnified the sport and everything that came off the back of that for them, I think it's a huge opportunity for us.

11:38We know that, especially how well they've done again this summer, women's sport at the minute is really on the rise and rightly so. It's been incredible to see. But we know that it's a huge opportunity. We need to get, obviously, our stuff right. We need to go and put performances in that inspire each other more than anyone else because then everything else will come. But, yeah, it's a really good opportunity for us to actually take this sport into the next stratosphere like it happened every world cup that we've had so far and it just feels like it we're really like sat on a little bubble of something pretty special i think as well as a nation we'd love to get behind success and sport and i guess when you put those two things together and hopefully obviously as we hope we do well and we progress through the competition i think the anticipation of that is just like amazing obviously we want to do so much for women's rugby women's sport but also just like how good is it to have hopefully a successful story in a nation that loves sport.

12:31Yeah, the ticket sales have already been amazing. You're going around the country starting in Sunderland, which was a really unusual, but I think quite inspired place to start your first match, start the tournament. But obviously, as you point to, it's kind of predicated on success, isn't it? In terms of the momentum. But you come into this, somebody said to me, never has a team been more of a favourite in a home tournament of all time because your run of 25 games unbeaten, only losing over the last few years in a world cup final you know before that the magnificent run you had as well it does make you out and out favorites is that a good thing to go in with do you feel that weighs heavily on you i think we're happy to wear it i think like obviously we we are we don't know about the rest i think it's like it's so exciting obviously six nations wxv competitions the years that have gone by we've really grown and i think having the opportunity to be at home showcase that to everybody and as I say just just kind of wear that pressure a little bit like we know it we we expect that of ourselves I don't think anybody you'd ask anyone in our squad says we don't want to go and win that and we don't think we're capable of doing it but we also appreciate and respect the fact that there'll be other nations and players that will be saying exactly the same thing and I think sometimes that's the joy of a world cup like it is crazy competitive like the cliche of we've got to go one game at a time you have to you have to put your head down one game at a time kind of move forward from that but honestly like super super excited we've had end of a long week so maybe we're not giving the energy but it's so exciting this is the most energy i've ever seen give honestly yeah it's so true and i think like speaking from experience like the way scuzzy talks about it is exactly how we all feel like we are genuinely so excited about what's to come it feels like we've been speaking about the home world cup for so long and now suddenly it's here like we're doing our squad photo the announcement has gone out and it genuinely is feeling real and I think I'm just buzzing for the next few weeks I can't wait to get stuck in benchmarks keep being kind of shifted and records keep being broken in terms of you know what goes on here at Twickenham sellout crowds and obviously record crowds during the six nations all those things show the growth and interest in the sport increasing and we'll be looking at all those things you know as broadcasters we look at those things going you know kind of how many tickets have been sold where do you think women's rugby can be what's the what's the kind of holy grail the utopia for you at the end of this world cup in terms of success i would personally love to see obviously a boom in grassroots so people getting down to their local rugby clubs whether it's boys girls everyone else just that they see how amazing the people involved in the sport are because there's nothing quite like being at your local rugby club and everyone just mucking in like you've got the family involved in it as well you know what it's like and i also think i'd love to see our matches well attended at the pwi level because i think that's kind of the bit that's missing at the minute like everyone loves international they get behind it especially with the Red Roses whoever we kind of play they end up getting like a record crowd which is incredible but we would love to see that across the board and for me definitely see those home crowds um coming in for the PWR matches and just see the lift in that week on week would be pretty special I think definitely like new eyes to it as well we're I think certainly as women's rugby we're trying to maybe reach a new audience that's different to maybe men's rugby and really trying to attract those people so I think it's a an awesome opportunity I know whenever I'm watching something on TV whether it be a cricket world cup I want to go and do that sport like that's just what happens isn't it like you have a little bit of oh okay I could maybe I could do some of that so hopefully just with the span of media and obviously BBC stuff and whatnot hopefully that will encourage more to get involved the fact that it's on like BBC is just incredible for us we've never really had anyone come to a match or see a game and think I'm not going to watch that again like we've always only ever had really positive outcome from people actually getting eyes on the sport and seeing what we do so that's huge for us and hopefully we can really see that we spoke to ellie kildun on the podcast a couple of months ago and it was just on the back of this of the six nations and talked about personality in in rugby and it was kind of just i think the aftermath or that you know the henry pollock kind of moment um with him kind of doing his pulse celebration and all of that and obviously you guys have always had all of that and never seem to kind of shy away from the personality that comes whether it's cowboy hats celebrations in game kind of you know dancing with the crowd sarah burn all that stuff has come very naturally it doesn't feel like it's forced at all no i think that's the beauty of it like we've always been encouraged especially now in this crop of players to be authentically ourselves and i think that shines through like we love each other to pieces like the girls are some of your best mates like scaz has been my best mate since 20 2010 or something daft so like did you know that yeah i do now brilliant that sums us up but like we are playing and training with some of our best mates and we encourage that out of each other and i think that's what you see that's what rings through for the girls because everyone's happy to be themselves and put themselves out there rugby also seems to attract like an amazing diverse group of randoms randoms yeah like the individuals are amazing their stories are like insane and then you kind of mash them all together in one big team and you have some fantastic personalities some brilliant moments people that want to you know express themselves in such different ways and it's so nice to be able to see that players are able to do that they're being celebrated doing that and obviously social media is a pretty big yeah but that's the other thing you you kind of have taken to social media very naturally i think at one point obviously TikTok heavily involved in sponsorship and that perhaps that was a really fortuitous kind of coming together at the right time because that is where young people are finding out about things and people isn't it and and personalities that they want to then go and watch 100 % and a very good friend of ours always tells us people follow people and like I think that we have a huge opportunity in our sport to to do that whereas you know people might not want to follow rugby and the whole thing they might follow a Sarah Byrne who's dancing on the sideline and love watching that content post game and then actually as a result of that they watch her in the next game and then they see all the rest of us and so it's it's a quite an easy knock-on effect isn't it but it has to start somewhere and Ilona Meyer I guess is the brand leader in that respect isn't she in terms of almost shamelessly saying like look just you know come follow me and see how brilliant this sport is she's not she's not doing it for kind of attention per se it's about shining a light reflecting that onto the back onto the sport but I just thought how amazing it was in her acceptance speech the other night when she referenced the Women's Rugby World Cup and was just like, you're not going to understand it.

19:00We don't understand it. Just come and watch it. There's a Women's Rugby World Cup this year. Probably a lot of you didn't know. The biggest event in women's rugby starting in about a month. Watch it. Tune in. You're not going to understand it the first time you watch it. You're not going to understand it the second time either, but just keep watching. Okay. What does I have to say? My message stays the same. Strong is beautiful. strong is powerful it's sexy it's whatever you want it to be and i hope more girls can feel how i feel um in that moment to have that thought like she's so clever in terms of what she thinks about and how natural market here oh she's brilliant honestly we spoke to her she's she's like strategizes everything and you can see it but it's like what a moment for her to be able to shine a light on it just incredible yeah to a very different audience and that's what you're hoping to attract I guess in this World Cup is another different audience but there has to be some very successful rugby played along the way as well which you you've been very good at over the last few years so let's let's talk about you two in particular and first of all you Mo obviously you've talked about your age before which I've loved what your comments about kind of people obsessing with age and actually it's about how well you're playing and how much better you feel you're playing than even you were you know 10 years ago because you guys have had a transition from not being full-time to being full-time and actually it's the miles on the clock, isn't it?

20:24And the energy, because rugby is so demanding of the body that you could still be at this kind of peak performance now. So there's a lot about how professional the game is in managing you. A hundred percent. I think that and also my stubbornness, if I'm honest, like not to give up. But yeah, no, definitely. The fact that when we were younger, if anything, it was harder. I was working personally as a PE teacher, so I would be up training before work, plan and mark the next day after I finish training at night have to prep my food so it was it was absolutely relentless I'm but I'm so glad I lived through that time because you really appreciate the time that we get now like the time to rest and recover and do your meal prep and to stretch and do all of those things that you need to do but yeah it's definitely like one that you don't really look like five world cups is crazy and and almost not making this world cup in terms of the injuries that you've had to overcome over the last couple of years yeah I think obviously Moses Gromarff so she says clear of some of the contact which has probably helped her along the way but yeah I think like 14 months out of the game with my neck injury didn't know whether you'd come back or not like I was pretty happy with my lot at that point but this is like almost another opportunity like an added extra opportunity which is why I feel kind of so free and I think both of us we don't like talking about age we know we're the older members of the squad of course but if you're still doing what you're doing and you're doing it in a I think sometimes for us because we've been through so much we now have this sense of freedom about it because it's not dragging us down or holding us back in any way you're like this is for me anyway almost like an added extra let's just go and see what happens as opposed to weighing yeah I think that's the thing for me I don't mind anyone talking about my age if it's in a positive way and if it's I'm not getting to the ball it's probably because of like a physical thing or something like that not necessarily like the age that I am like I feel like I'm throwing myself around I'm holding my own with everyone else so it doesn't need to be about that like talk about my rugby talk about what I'm doing on the pitch and I think I've always been like that just reference it for me and you don't need to go on about stuff like that unless it's relevant I've read you talking about a Lions tour I mean so you're planning on going on a lot longer beyond this is no swan song for you this World Cup do you know what like I love rugby I absolutely adore the sport like I genuinely love the camaraderie with the girls like putting my body through it challenging myself and I've always loved that and while I'm still enjoying it that's the most important thing for me and while I'm still playing all right and I'm in the mix like why would I stop that's that's my mindset on it and I I've been fortunate enough to be involved into GB cycles with the Olympics and they were some of my favorite memories of rugby like just coming together with other nations seeing their cultures like building that in such short succession and then going on and trying to achieve something and I would absolutely love to be part of it it's not going to define me like same as Scaz if it if it happens that would be the ultimate and it would be the best way to go out and I would absolutely relish it but if it doesn't happen then at least I've given it a crack and let's also talk about the elephant in the room New Zealand who are the team who have stopped England succeeding at a number of World Cups and obviously last time in the cruelest of fashions as well why are england going to beat new zealand this time what a good question there we are um straight back yeah i think like any game where you play against new zealand is always proper you know you know you're going to have to be right up for it they grow up throwing a rugby ball around i know rugby's not our main sport here but obviously we pay a huge amount of attention to it but in new zealand it's literally the life and soul of the place so they have some phenomenally talented players i think we back ourselves in terms of the work that we've put in and how we all want to play the game and all that sort of stuff.

24:00But fundamentally, I just think it's two absolute rugby giants that could potentially go at it. And for me, that's so exciting. They're the games that you want to be involved in. They're the spectacles that you want to showcase our sport to new audiences and those that love it as well. So that's probably not answered your question, Gabby. I was wondering if John Mitchell and his understanding of Kiwi rugby, if that has added another dimension maybe to the group. I don't know if it's specifically about them, but what he's done is really empowered us. And his language is all about how we're in such a better place than we were a few years ago.

24:37Like the amount of rugby and the amount of different experience we've had as this group together through that time is really going to stand us in great stead. I think you just look at some of the girls like Maud Burner, like our front row, for example. They were super young in New Zealand a couple of years ago and they've matured so incredibly like through that time, both at club and country. And I think everyone's had that journey. Everyone's along that line quite a lot. We haven't got a lot of people that are coming in for their first World Cup. Undercooked. Quite a lot of experience in the mix, which will massively help us come the knockout stages.

25:09And one of the questions through the Six Nations, just briefly, is often because you've had such dominant wins, that you've perhaps not felt as tested as you might going into a World Cup. You can't kind of achieve that artificially, can you? You know, it's very difficult to get tested. Yeah, it's really hard. I think obviously we do work in training around scenarios and you're putting pressure on yourselves. But ultimately, if you don't get it in training, you've not lost a World Cup of you. So it's hard because the same weight isn't on those moments. But I think if you look back even just to this season, we had a really tough game against Canada at the last game of WXV.

25:43We had a really tough game against France at the last game of Six Nations. So we've got two big games even within the last 12 months to call on and look back on and really scrutinise in terms of how you maybe do things differently or get out of those certain situations and all that sort of stuff. So yes, although it doesn't happen like every other game or as often as some people would like, there's definitely that in the bank. And I also think, don't take for granted the effect that PWR has. Like we're all playing, bar Mo because she keeps winning the title, but everybody else is playing in really super competitive teams and games and you're having to solve problems constantly and work through stuff.

26:18So all of that is banked experience as individuals. Because we've been behind in the last two games at halftime. well I can see you're both so excited to go it feels like you're kind of coiled springs ready to take on this world cup and one final point I was very kindly gifted a little bag of products skin skincare I can say the brand I mean there are other skincare brands Clinique one of your sponsors yeah and I just thought that was actually an interesting kind of moment it's the first time that there's been a skincare sponsor for the roses and shows really kind of the growth and the kind of attraction and power of women's sport and women's rugby to get to get these kind of brands on board but you must have seen you know going from your first international in front of a few people in Isha I think it was was it and now you're selling out kind of big stadiums it's massive like things like that make such a difference and you like brands are now so interested in getting on board aren't they they really want to be involved you obviously referenced TikTok in terms of the growth that that had when it was part of the Six Nations Clinique are brilliant.

27:18Just, I guess, very real. We spend so much time outside. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. It's like they're being outside so often in all weathers. But stuff like that is super cool. But it's indicative of where the sport's going, isn't it? And I think having female-specific sponsors to female sport is also a really kind of big step. We've seen it in women's football, haven't we? Attracting those kinds of brands. So, yeah. Well, good luck with the Lip Balmins.

27:51we've all come out in hives no they give you one for player of the match and there was a what was it so clinic do you game face player of the match for pwr so mo won player of the match one day got a little gift bag and basically she got this thing that she thought was lip balm and using it as lip balm for a week no i sat in red like we were in red roses camp and i got this like purple and obviously some of the other girls like meg jones is one player of the match so i get out this purple thing for my lip balm and meg's like no god no she's like girls this lip this lip balm is so good like lathering girls you should try this and everyone's like mo it's what was it i it's like i it was retinal cream in that moment i was so crushed because they never have good stuff yeah but i imagine that would work wonders a very expensive way of looking after your lips, but I'm sure it would work wonders.

28:41Yeah. Well, good luck with these skinkies. Thank you so much. Thank you.

28:47Gabby:The Sports Agents.

28:51Gabby:The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

28:58Still to come, I'll be speaking to the former England captain, Sarah Hunter, who led England to World Cup glory in 2014. She's now part of John Mitchell's coaching team. Really clever appointment by him to pull her into the coaching. I mean, she probably will be head coach of England one day, the Red Roses herself. And we had a chat about just that, going from player to coach and how she has handled that change in her relationship with some of these players who were her former teammates. Sarah Hunter, welcome to the Sports Agents. It is good to see you. Thank you for having me on. I think the last time I saw you, it was a very emotional day, wasn't it, in Newcastle?

29:32Your final game for the Red Roses, an incredible reception you got that day. And here we are a couple of years later and you're in the thick of the coaching squad. You've transitioned very quickly. Very quickly. And if you'd asked me then what I'd be doing at the start of the next World Cup, I don't think I'd be sat here talking to you as a coach of the Red Roses. It's certainly been a very quick and unexpected transition into coaching with England. Coaching was always a possible of what I was going to do next, but maybe at a slightly slower pace. Yeah, and you're in charge of defence. So it's a big role.

30:12Yeah. Working, of course, with John Mitchell and the other coaches. And here we are at the start of what could be an incredible period for women's rugby because this team are so dominant. They've gone on this 25 game unbeaten run, only beaten by New Zealand in the last World Cup before that. It was another massive unbeaten run. You were part of that unbeaten run as well. It would be something of a shock, actually, if they don't come out of this World Cup victorious. But sport is sport, right? And so things can happen. That kind of pressure as a coaching team, you know, knowing that it's there, you know, to go and grab.

30:46What does that feel like? Yeah, I think first and foremost, it is a different team. But we will utilise that experience of 22, the learnings of it. And no one would have predicted what would have happened in that final with the red card, with the injuries, with the changes we had to make at that time. So we've got to prepare them for those what if moments. So actually in the heat of the battle, like we're ready for anything and we don't have to to worry about the unknown bits of sports so that we can still achieve our goal at the end of it. And the hurt, I imagine, that was around that day and that defeat as well.

31:23How much has that for some of the women who involved that day? How much has that kind of been an inspiration to redress that? I think also, I think the girls being brilliant and the group and the staff is that actually we have to take that. We have to take our learnings. We have to take, you say, that pain, that growth to guide us into this. We can't sort of like have it as an elephant in the room and not express that. Because I think that does really help shape and challenge. And those tough times when you need a bit of motivation, a bit of inspiration to come from, like we've learned, we grow.

31:57and this team is a brand new team to go and face each challenge that will come along in the next few weeks. How have you found the transition from player to coach in terms of not being involved physically in those moments and having to just stand on the sidelines and watch? To be honest, I haven't minded because the difficulty has definitely risen. So I'm quite glad that I'm now on the other side. And I've just tried to, I guess as a captain, you're kind of in that bit of a go-between of player and staff and you start to have maybe a different role within the team. So I've kind of tried just to take that a little bit on from there and still have that connection with the players because they were my teammates.