Weekend Edition: Rugby World Cup Final with Ruby Tui on the 'game of the decade' & calling King Charles "Bruv"

0:02This is a Global Player Original Podcast. The England women's rugby team haven't lost a game since the last World Cup final. Tomorrow, they are back in another final. This time, it's against Canada, the number two team in the world at the Allianz, in front of an 82 ,000 sold out crowd. So this is it. No pressure then. And our guest today knows just what it's like to win a home World Cup. In fact, she beat England in the last one. I'm going to try not to go into that too much. And the nation has totally fallen in love with Ruby Toohey. She's been a pundit for the BBC throughout this World Cup with her incredible energy and enthusiasm for the game and analyses it brilliantly.

0:41But what is not to love about a woman who called King Charles Brough and got 40 ,000 fans singing a Maori folk song in her post-match interview after winning the last World Cup? Welcome to the Sports Agents.

1:00The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Ruby Toohey, welcome to The Sports Agents. Hello, my friend. I'm only here because of you. Well, it's only me here today, sadly, because my co-host Mark is in New York getting ready for the Ryder Cup. So I've got you all to myself, which is great because normally I have to share you with Maggie and Simon. Ruby, I think I should give you your accolades first. Two-time World Cup winner in 15s and 7s, Olympic gold medalist. So people in this country knew you, but do you feel over the last few weeks they've got to see the real Ruby Toohey? And are you feeling the love when you kind of wander out and about on the streets?

1:42I was driving yesterday through the city and I was like, man, I actually like this place. I would never admit that when I was playing in England all the time. But I was like, man, it's actually grown on me. I have felt a lot of love and I think the main way I've felt that is through just the support of this Rugby World Cup. Every single live game I've gone to is basically, if not, been a sellout. And everyone's just been so wonderful, so kind and there's no demographic. It's like they're all women or they're all men. It's every kind of age, everything you can imagine. It's just been so, so wonderful.

2:14I'm so impressed by England right now. It's a really positive experience, isn't it, going to these matches? And you come away feeling so hopeful and so joyous. And the sport has been good. And we finally saw England tested last weekend. We're going to get on to what you think about the final. But let's just talk a bit more about you. Because you have a really powerful story, Ruby, which you document in your book. And how, as a lot of the stories, we've seen a lot of VTs, haven't we, through this World Cup of Players, where rugby has really changed their lives. And they found it at a time when they felt despair and hopelessness.

2:48And you talked about the domestic violence that you experienced around your family and how rugby became an escape for you, somewhere that you could find joy and have some sense of achievement that you just couldn't access anywhere else. Yeah, absolutely. Like sports was just such this amazing thing because to me, once you crossed the white line, it was the absolute equaliser. It didn't matter where you came from, what you've been through. If you played well, that was the fact, like you played well. so yeah mum had to we ended up having to kind of leave in New Zealand there's a charity who I'm still I still work with all the time today called Women's Refuge and a woman that were being abused through domestic violence could go there and kind of escape and no one knows their dress the dress is never talked about so ended up there I think it was about the first year of high school I didn't didn't attend a lot in the beginning of that year it was a crazy adventure and it was actually massive for me and my mum she she kind of didn't know how to feel about it but when we talked about it and I show her what I'd written and she actually realized in my eyes she was my hero for doing something so brave I I didn't realize but I'd never sat her down and gone I saw you as the hero of my childhood and she'd never thought of herself as being the hero in that situation but she absolutely was like what I see in her you know she had to like grab all our bags sneak everything out Should the woman's refugee lady come around and told her what to grab?

4:18Like, you know, things that you don't think of, like two forms of ID, proof of address, like things like that to kind of absolutely get out of everything you're locked into. So, man, it was like super life-changing to me in a positive way, but she didn't realize it. So that was massive. And then, yeah, sports was always you get to be a part of a team. No matter what, you turn up on that sports field, you're a valued member of that team. which in my world a team is kind of the closest thing you get to a second family you know they've all got quirks and you don't you're not best friends of all of them but you've got to have their back and then rugby on top of that like in life people say yeah I support you I've got your back but it might just be liking something on social media in rugby there's people that are willing to break their arm for you put their body completely on like you don't need to talk about how much they have their back they literally will break their back for you and I am for them you It's this huge gesture of absolute carelessness for safety and well-being for you, for their teammates.

5:22I love rugby so much. In terms of all the things that you've done to actually win a World Cup at home, in front of obviously a nation that loves its rugby, it's the number one sport. So you weren't having to win over people to rugby like a lot of the Red Roses have kind of felt they've had to do with women's rugby because rugby does play second fiddle to football in this country. Did that feel more than just sport? Did it feel like you were culturally helping to shift the dial in terms of the way women were perceived in society? yeah I've been to I feel like a lot of sporting events like Sevens World Cup been to a couple Olympics you know won gold at the Olympics and you know that's pretty pretty good in sport but to win a rugby world cup when I love rugby so much at home I just don't think anything will ever compare it's just the most amazing like I can still feel it right now like it's just the most super super thing but the key to that whole experience right is that your home nation comes out for you and Eden Park numbers wise nowhere near Twickenham sorry nowhere near Allianne Stadium well done but you know at home that's that's the place that history is made that's where we do everything we do in it and if you get it right you sell it out like that and the fact that New Zealand sold it out and there was the thing I couldn't get over there was so many young people so many kids going ah you know like and that's them they get that memory forever like I wish I had a memory like that so to give the country there and for the country to go we support you we're here with you it was life-changing and I think that's why I'm so excited for the Red Roses the last time they got this chance was 15 years ago 2010 at Twickenham Stoop 13 ,000 people came out and I was literally standing there the other day looking around and it didn't look like 13 ,000 on TV, it looked like far less when I turned around and you can see Allianz Stadium in the distance, like when you're standing inside of the pitch, and I was like whoa, it's taken 15 years while the Red Roses get to play over the road, over there, completely sold out and I have to go for Canada because my entire pundit team is all going for the Red Roses.

7:35We do have Leslie McKenzie coming on who's the Japan coach who played for Canada, so don't worry, I know last week you accidentally wore red and white, let's not talk about that so I know you've got a soft spot for the Red Roses and you'll know what it means to them to win a home World Cup but just a little bit more on your story and how you connect with people because you managed to get that sellout crowd at Eden Park to sing a Maori folk song at the end of the game They said nobody cared about women's rugby but guess what? We out here We out here fam We going nowhere New Zealand, can't you be here?

8:15How are you? New Zealand.

8:23Tātou, tātou e.

8:29Tātou, tātou e. Whae up. Mate.

8:39Doing something like that from the outset, that takes enormous bravery to just go, come on, let's sing this. Were you thinking, I'm going to do this if we win? Okay, this is funny because whenever I get asked about it and that it was quite out there, I think about it, I'm like, man, it probably was, wasn't it? So we used to have London Sevens and Sevens, we had Amsterdam Sevens. The Amsterdam Sevens, a guy called Luke McAllister, who played a lot in time over in France and for the All Blacks. His sister was in the same, Kayla McAllister, a really good friend of mine. And he popped up. And there weren't many Kiwis around.

9:13There was only 300 people, but we were around. The first time I heard it was him, but we used to do it everywhere. And if you wanted to see, like, how many Kiwis were there or, like, whoever was around that you might know, you'd just go, tu te ramai na iwi. And then every single Kiwi that could hear you would turn around and go, oh, wait. So then you'd be like, oh, there's, like, heaps of us here. Or you'd be like, oh, I'm very much alone. Like, I need to find, you know? It was kind of like a gauge. So we've just been doing it for the longest time, but like maybe 20 people will sing back. So I've been doing it when the crowds were small.

9:50So I was like, hey, I'm going to do it when the crowds are sold out and see how many Kiwis want to sing back. And every single one of them wanted to. So it was absolutely wonderful. And I'm so glad I just randomly had that thought to do it. You connect with people, though. And we saw that back in 2016. I remember my colleague, Jill Douglas, did an interview with you post-match. I'm being told you have to go because I think the rain's coming. We'll see you tomorrow. What rain? Bring on the thunder. We're at the Olympics. Let's be happy. Let's compete safely and peacefully. Peace and love. Love you, guys.

10:20We love you too. That went viral because of your enthusiasm and your energy. And the same energy and enthusiasm that allows you to call Prince Charles bruv as well. Tell us about that. I just thought that you'd get a listen before you made him. I thought they'd be. You'd think so, wouldn't you? Like, you know how you get briefing calls? Yeah. We didn't get none. We didn't get nothing. So I was waiting in the room because doors kept opening in the castle, so we had to keep going through rooms. And I thought one of the rooms would be the practice room. And so we got to the last room with the elderflower champagne glasses and the wall behind me opened.

10:56And I was like, and the king walked out and I was just like, I haven't been given any lesson, So I'm just going to have to do what I do with everybody and be as nice as I know how to be. And he didn't seem to mind. So it was lucky we didn't get thrown out like jeevers. The Sports Agents.

11:19The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

11:26Tomorrow, the England Red Roses want to kind of right the wrongs of the last World Cup when they lost to you guys and they want to try and keep that incredible record they've got going. I mean, they've lost one game in 63, which is just ridiculous. But this week, I don't know about you, Ruby, it feels to me that all the talk is that they are suddenly on the back foot and that Canada are the team in the ascent. And I never thought we'd get to a situation on the eve of a World Cup final where the Red Roses feel like they're the underdogs almost here. It's a huge plot twist. It's actually an honour to be able to witness this moment in history.

12:01I feel like, like in sporting history, it would be this close. And I hope all of England and all the home nations know how close they are to like this huge moment. Like whatever happens, this is going to be huge. And I think, yeah, everybody assumed, including me, that England and New Zealand would be in the final and would get this, you know, this big revenge game. Well, not revenge, but settle the score finally. And we know each other's game quite well and England would just have to do this. but there's been a huge plot change and a plot you know thickener which is Canada have quietly but certainly and surely been banging away at this new game plan that is just sensational to watch everybody loves it and the last time we played the last two times we played them actually we didn't win you know they beat us for the first time in Christchurch then we had a dramatic draw we actually couldn't slow it down enough and so what is happening is canada have a brand new quick as the flash kind of style of rugby which england it's the opposite style to them so they are very traditional they're very good at all the traditional parts of the footy so it's it's become this huge clash of not only cultures styles almost yeah complete game-changing styles and so I'm really really looking forward to this I I don't know if I'd use the complete word underdogs yeah you're right it's not an underdog it's it's just the balance of power maybe and it's gonna be a very new test for England in a moment where they could do with no more variables you know enough is kind of going on for the English red roses well I just I we're on a whatsapp group obviously with all our colleagues and just before we spoke today a message drop to say that Canada had won the toss to choose the dressing room.

13:46And of course, psychology, they've gone and chosen England's home dressing room, which can you imagine how livid the Red Roses would be? That is just, you know, isn't that what we want though? You know, a little bit of like, you know, a little prick, another prick on the side there for the Red Roses. Like it's, oh my goodness. I don't think, I don't think we've actually made it into changing room one. So I'm like, oh, I can't wait to see this content come out of what Canada do in there. You know, like, can you imagine? So I love that. It's drama. It's right up under their skin. I wouldn't be surprised if Canada were like, oh, you can't wear white.

14:21You know, like, you've got to wear the alternate kid even. So I think it's part of the drama. I think, I hope it rocks the English girls up. And you know what? I actually hope we see something we haven't seen from the Red Roses before ever. a magical play or they're at a space where they know each other well enough where they can do something we've never seen before i think it's going to be so super exciting and it's not what will canada bring it's can england stop it canada had to use all of their cards shall we say against new zealand and they well and truly blew us out the park so now england have to go okay let's break this down what do we change what do we completely leave the same and what do we just pull out of a back pocket the world hasn't seen yet.

15:03So super, super mouth-ordering stuff. Because England under their previous regime, under Simon Middleton, were known for their Route 1 rugby and scored a lot of their tries from driving malls. And then there was kind of a movement towards flair in the Six Nations. Certainly we saw that and the backs were scoring the tries. And we were seeing the likes of Abbey Dow and Ellie Kildun and Jess Breach scoring great tries. The Baxby were amazing. And then against Scotland, and certainly, I think we saw last weekend as well, we saw them kind of revert a little bit to type one, didn't we? It doesn't matter though, does it, Ruby?

15:38If you win the World Cup, you can be as dull as dishwater. You can play the most attritional rugby you like because you're going to lift that trophy. It's not about style on Saturday, is it? Win by an inch or a mile, one point or a hundred, a win is a win and that's all they will need. The thing about traditional rugby that England are so good at though is Canada don't want to play like that. So it's actually completely to England's favour that they play like that right now against Canada. New Zealand couldn't slow that down. I think England will be able to. I think they'll be able to stop momentum a lot better than New Zealand did last weekend.

16:13So the fact that England's kind of foundational, you're right, route one footy is so strong, absolute strength for them going into this weekend because France don't have that. We're working on that, but New Zealand doesn't quite have it like that. But England just will always have that. So Canada are going to go. We don't want to play there. We'll do absolutely anything we can to not go there. The other thing is, because Canada hardly have a ruck, like one second ruck, it's hardly a ruck. They keep the ref out of the game. But if England can bring mores and bring those things, Canada are going to have to dip into the discipline game again.

16:45and we saw a massive snippet of that at the last five minutes of the semi. You know, we're bringing them in, forcing them to be on the back foot, that stuff in Canada were penalised more in five minutes than they were in the last like three games. So I think England will be looking at that, thinking about that. And I don't know, they might score a couple of standard tries we've seen before, but I think they're just going to do something different as well. Like instead of mauling at the front, they might do like a dummy maul in the middle and a maul at the back. I think they're going to change it up and be a little bit more tricky than we've seen them.

17:17And I loved the flair that the Red Roses brought in that Six Nations you were alluding to. That actually made me worry a lot because I was like, wow, this Red Roses team, if they want to, they can actually play all kinds of rugby. If Canada come out and bring what they're doing and play their footy, they will win. But if England play to the potential they have and they have 23 of the world's best, they should strongly, confidently win. And so it's in that last 20 to me, that last 20 minutes with a bench like the Red Roses have, I think they have the advantage of the last of the last nudge. So it's the controlling of that tempo in the first 20.

17:55And we've seen the Red Roses completely, undoubtedly trust their bench. Canada, not so much. So whoever empties the tank, the best in that first half, which will be so exciting for the likes of you and I and every other person watching because they're going to try and win it in that first. It's like if you were watching Gladiators, they're not saving nothing for no one. They're sprinting at each other. Yeah, heavyweight boxer who just wants to go for the lethal blow early on. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it is absolutely lining up to be the game of the decade. It is. And you want it to be the game of the tournament, the final that's going to have the most eyeballs on it, the most people in the stadium.

18:30On that, do you think there's an advantage for England that they have played at Twickenham with a 50 ,000 crowd before, maybe not an 82 ,000? But Canada have not played in a stadium with that kind of cacophony of noise and expectation. And it takes some getting used to, doesn't it, walking out at the Allianz. I think that's why I can't quite call the Red Roses the underdogs because they've been in the tournament many, many times. I remember for London Sevens, we came out to warm up and it was sold out. And we were screaming at each other, face like literally 10, 17 metres away from each other's face.

19:04and we couldn't hear. If the crowd get it right in terms of support for the Red Roses, it's going to be a very difficult day for Canada. And I remember even at the last World Cup, every time we made a break, the crowd would erupt. And you can't help but be like, whoa, what about when we made a break? It's going to be a huge factor. And I really hope Canada are prepared. You might have to do some kind of sign languages, some calls you're going to have to just know, and you won't even be able to call them. so it's going to be a really really big atmosphere when we get out there the emotion of the anthems you have to level yourself I think Canada are going to have to look at the likes of Sophie who I don't know if anybody saw the difference but she wasn't really celebrating anything a lot of the other players you know Tessia were running around as a cucumber yeah so I think they're going to have to lean on those players who emotionally understand you cannot let that in before that whistle blows which is very difficult to do and very tempting so little mistakes and if the crowd erupts, you've got to drop it.

20:03I guess that's why we love human sports so much, because the emotion is undoubtedly a factor. And to me, in those moments, what always comes out is all those little conversations you've ever had with a teammate. Did they respect you in the changing room? When you saw them do something, did you hit them up? They're cultural thermometers to me. If those conversations were not fixed or talked about, it comes out in the final. When you need somebody to get up, look in the eye and say, I'm ready, sometimes they are hesitant to do so. So I think we're going to also get a display of whose culture has cracked it the most and who's actually getting to others back in the small moments because it all comes out in the big moments.

20:39Ruby, you have set that up beautifully and I'm already kind of feeling the tingle ahead of what is going to be a monumental and historic afternoon. So I can't wait, can't wait to share the afternoon with you. Thank you so much for coming on The Sports Agents and when are you you actually going to fly out of the country? Are we going to get to keep you for a week longer or are you heading back home straight away? I think some of the Black Friends girls have organised a bit of a dabble over in the Greek islands. I've never been, so any recommendations, you let me know. But hey, Gabby, thank you so much for having me on.

21:12Honestly, I've loved working beside you, learning off you guys. It's been an absolute pleasure. Honestly, I'm a little bit happy I'm a bit of a neutral and I'm sitting there because you guys are going to be absolutely edgiest seat. You might have no nails left. And I'm just going to enjoy the show. So I'm absolutely looking forward to this. Can't wait. The Sports Agents.

21:35The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. It's been another busy week on the podcast. And we started by catching up with Georgia Hunter-Bell, who basically had just landed in the UK from winning her silver at the World Athletics Championships in Tokyo last weekend. And it was a really interesting season for her. she'd gone from being bronze medalist in the 1500 metres in Paris to deciding to take on her training partner and friend and Olympic champion Keely Hodgkinson in the 800 metres, a decision that clearly paid off. You know, everyone has to have a really great day to win. So even the best people, if they're having a slightly off day and someone else is having an amazing day, that can change the dynamics and you see how small the margins are.

22:19I think more for me, I was just took the keys off training so when we were training together we were there were reps that like I was winning where usually maybe Keely would win where so that just kind of helped me start that whole belief process of okay maybe I can do this that's a very good indication because not everyone trains with the Olympic champion exactly so I'm that kind of beyond you know kind of Keely as a person just more for me I was like okay well this is where this is the level of what the best in the world is. And I'm mixing it here. Then on Thursday, the most capped England men's rugby player of all time, Ben Youngs, was in our studio ahead of the start of a new premiership season.

22:59Sorry, Prem season. It's been rebranded. And on that, we talked about everything from dyslexia to the revolution that could be R360 to watching all of his clips in fast forward. Apparently you absorb things better that way, but don't you go fast forwarding this episode of the Sports Agents. Eddie Jones, for instance, is a perfect example of a guy that would just chase that 1 % in any way. You know, we went through stages where we'd watch almost clips in fast forward because he'd studied that actually there was a quicker way for some people to almost absorb that information in fast forward for some reason.

23:29You know, the meetings had to be a certain amount of time because again, there's only so much you could have. You know, you'd only ever go away from a meeting with two clear points. But when I think back to my early stage of my career, I mean, you know, the coach would be going irate and you'd leave with about 15 different points. You're thinking, well, we've only got five days to fix it, you know, because we're planning it on Saturday and it's Monday. and you think, oh, you know, what are we going to do? I am definitely going to go into meetings from now on going, I'm one of the people who really helps if this is in fast forward.

23:53And they'll go, is that a thing? I'll go, well, it worked for Eddie Jones. That's it for another week on the podcast. If you've been listening to this on the News Agents feed, just search for the Sports Agents to listen to those interviews in full on YouTube, Global Player, or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember to hit subscribe or follow. Next week, we've got a Q &A episode incoming. So email us your questions, thesportsagentsatglobal.com or message us on social media or via the link in the show notes. New episodes every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Thanks for listening.