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The Sports Agents
Weekend Edition - Why are Deaf Athletes Excluded from Paralympics?
Episode Summary In this episode, hosts Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman explore the exclusion of deaf athletes from the Paralympics, shedding light on the Deaflympics and the challenges faced by deaf athletes in securing funding. They are joined by Team GB medal hopefuls Charlotte Gower and Nathan Young who discuss their experiences and the need for increased recognition and support for deaf athletes.
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Key Topics Discussed
Exclusion from the Paralympics
- Deaf Athletes' Status: Deaf athletes are not allowed to compete in the Paralympics and instead participate in the Deaflympics.
- Funding Issues: The lack of Paralympic status means that deaf athletes receive no governmental funding, impacting their ability to train and compete effectively.
- Historical Context: The Deaflympics has been held for over 100 years, predating the Paralympics by 30-40 years.
Experiences of Deaf Athletes
- Guest Introductions:
- Charlotte Gower: 15-year-old first-time Deaflympics participant.
- Nathan Young: Deaflympics bronze medalist with multiple British championship titles.
- Training and Support:
- Both athletes highlight the lack of funding and resources available to support their training.
- Charlotte shares her experience of being unaware of the Deaflympics until recently, reflecting the need for better awareness.
Comparison with Paralympic Funding
- Nathan mentions that he has self-funded his participation in eight international competitions, costing approximately £26,000.
- In contrast, Paralympic athletes benefit from significant funding from the government and the National Lottery, amounting to around £600 million over four years.
Campaign for Funding
- Charlotte and Nathan are actively involved in campaigning for government funding, emphasizing the need to be recognized and supported alongside other athletes.
- Nathan discusses efforts to engage with government officials and push for a small fund of £3 million to support the Deaflympics.
Government Response
- Clips from a Parliamentary discussion highlight the government's stance on funding and eligibility for deaf athletes, which remains a point of contention.
- Government representatives express understanding of the frustration but maintain focus on athletes eligible for the Olympics and Paralympics.
Coverage and Awareness
- Discussion on the lack of media coverage for the Deaflympics, with most visibility coming from niche channels.
- Emphasis on the importance of raising awareness to increase support and recognition for deaf athletes.
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Highlights from the Week on The Sports Agents
NBA Gambling Scandal
- Discussion on the recent NBA gambling scandal involving organized crime, featuring insights from Andy Hughes and Mike Vorkunov.
- The conversation highlights the old-school methods still in use by the mafia in the context of gambling.
Phil Tufnell's Ashes Stories
- Former England cricketer Phil Tufnell shares humorous anecdotes from his Ashes career, highlighting the experience of being a young player in a historic competition.
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Conclusion The episode takes a deep dive into the systemic issues faced by deaf athletes, emphasizing the need for policy change and increased visibility. The stories shared by Charlotte and Nathan not only highlight their personal struggles but also call for broader societal recognition and support for the Deaflympics.
Further Engagement
- Listeners are encouraged to participate in the conversation by submitting questions and feedback through various platforms linked in the episode description.
- New episodes of The Sports Agents are released every Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday.
Links
- [Watch Episodes on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@SportsAgentsPod)
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- [Follow on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/thesportsagents/)
- [Follow on X](https://x.com/sportsagentspod)
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Podcast Hosts: Gabby Logan & Mark Chapman Produced by: Adonis Pratsides, Sophie Penney Executive Producer: Tom Hughes Production Network: Global Player ```
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02Gabby:This is a Global Player original podcast.
0:05Nathan Young:Did you know deaf athletes aren't allowed to compete at the Paralympics? For a hundred years now, they've been holding their own competition, the Deaflympics, which starts in a couple of weeks' time with over 3 ,000 competitors from around 80 countries. Referee whistles are replaced by flag signals, starting guns by flashing lights. But no Paralympics means no funding. So UK Deaf Sport went to Parliament to state their case. We are the only disabled elite sports group that have no access to funding whatsoever.
0:37Gabby:I think that's shameful, speaking forthrightly.
0:41Nathan Young:All because they were born with the so-called wrong disability. Welcome to The Sports Agents.
0:54Gabby:The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.
1:00Nathan Young:So I've got with me two of Team GB's medal hopefuls for the upcoming Deaflympics. We've got Charlotte, who's 15 years old and going to her first Deaflympics. Thanks for joining us, Charlotte.
1:12Charlotte Gower:Nice to see you.
1:13Nathan Young:And Nathan as well, who is a Deaflympics bronze medalist already. Multiple British championship titles as well. And he will be going for more medals at this Deaflympics. Thanks so much for coming in to chat about something that I, I'll be honest, I was quite ignorant about. I hadn't kind of registered.
1:30Charlotte Gower:Yeah, not many people know much about it at all.
1:33Nathan Young:The Deaflympics was so separate to Paralympics.
1:36Charlotte Gower:People presume that we have the category in the Paralympics or the Parasome, but we're not involved in any of that at all.
1:44Nathan Young:And so the Deaflympics is smaller than the Paralympics in terms of the number of events. Tell us a bit, Nathan, about what else goes on at the Deaflympics apart from swimming.
1:53Gabby:So the Deaflympics have been around for over 100 years now. So it's been going along.
1:57Nathan Young:So it predates the Paralympics?
1:58Gabby:Yes, it predates about 30, 40 years. So it's massive, but obviously, yes, not many people like USU itself hadn't really heard of Deaflympics, and that is massively due to the funding. Obviously, Paralympics has grown and grown and grown over sort of recent history, but that really in Great Britain only came in 2012 when the government decided to make a big emphasis on Olympics and Paralympics. So since then, it's grown. but obviously we've just sort of been left behind.
2:28Nathan Young:You're trying to change the funding model in a way because can you explain a little bit about where the money comes from then for Deaf Olympics and how you support yourselves?
2:37Gabby:So in terms of funding for Deaf Olympics we get absolutely no funding so I've been, as you've mentioned, I've been to a previous Deaf Olympics plus eight international competitions and that's all been self-funded by myself and the amazing community and family that I have so over the past eight competitions I've had to raise about£26 ,000. So compare that to a Paralympic athlete, they get sort of money from the government and also a national lottery of over like£600 million over a four-year cycle. And we, Deaflympics, being going longer than the Paralympics gets zero.
3:11Charlotte Gower:So do you train, Charlotte, with Paralympians? No, there's no talent pathways at all. There's nothing within the Deaf Swimming Club. We meet up together, and that's about as much as we've had except for just meeting up to talk about Deaflympics with the rest of the athletes. But yeah, it's all self-funded, like through doing fundraising, all of that. That's the only way we can get money to.
3:32Nathan Young:So you started out swimming, just your local swimming club had a talent for it. Did you know there was a possibility to swim in the Deaflympics when you were... I have to be honest,
3:41Charlotte Gower:I didn't really know much about Deaflympics until maybe even last year. I thought I'd have to swim with all the able-bodied swimmers and that was the only way that I could ever. So it's totally new to me.
3:51Nathan Young:And Nathan, how did you come across your path? How did you find out about it?
3:55Gabby:So it's the same story really. So I was only 14 when I found out. So I've been deaf my whole life. And to me to find out about Deaf Olympics at 14 is quite sad really. And I think it just shows the state of the funding in this country and how it's represented.
4:11Nathan Young:So how does it compare to other countries and the way they treat their deaf athletes?
4:16Gabby:So there are a lot of countries that get government funding. So we'll be going to Japan that get money, get Ukraine. So you've got a lot of the European countries, they get funding. So yeah, there are a lot of countries and you can see it. Obviously Charlotte will be going in less than 15 days now. And she'll see the size of the clubs that come with the entourage of physios, coaches and staff.
4:41Nathan Young:So you have been quite active in trying to change the way that your sport is, or that the organisation is fine now. Tell us a bit about what you've been doing with government.
4:51Gabby:So about 1520 days ago, I started campaigning on social media and over that period of time, I found out that it was eventually the government that can change this funding policy. That's how it started. And eventually, over a few weeks ago, we got to sit in front of the DCMS Select Committee so hopefully they will basically then give their recommendations so this is about you know funding for deaf olympics and elite sport we were asking them to give us three million such a small chunk of this and that would come from the paralympic budget would it i don't think it would be paralympic budget i think it would just be like a little i'm not sure how they would do it i think it'd be like a little separate strand i suppose but it comes from the government but also it's not just that's not where the paralympic olympics get their money from it's also the national lottery do you not get anything from the national lottery and they say as well as many other companies they say that this white paper policy that the government seem to have is that we're not on this right so this
5:51Nathan Young:list influences who the national lottery then allocate their funds to so you would like to be
5:56Gabby:part of that list exactly so we can get so we go to many other companies car companies anything can you please sponsor us we're only asking for such a small chunk three million over four years
6:04Nathan Young:Over four years, a small chunk.
6:06Gabby:So that's what we're asking for. But again, it comes back to you're not on this list. So then that's where it came to. We have to go and campaign the government.
6:14Nathan Young:OK, we're going to just play a clip now of the Culture, Media and Sports Secretary, Lisa Nandy. And this is what she had to say as a response when it was raised in Parliament as to why there is no funding. Can I thank you, as always, for raising an issue that has been raised with both myself and the Minister for Sport. We're working with UK Sport to try to resolve this. Of course, we'll be cheering them on in Tokyo. And I'm really looking forward to that. But we know that those opportunities aren't available to all. I'd be very happy to meet with her to discuss this further. And UK Sport have sent us this statement.
6:49Nathan Young:We understand the frustration of athletes targeting the Deaf Olympics, but our remit is specifically focused on investing in sports and athletes who are eligible to compete at the Olympic and Paralympic Games. However, it is important to note that where there are deaf athletes who meet other eligibility criteria that enables them to compete in the Olympic and Paralympic sports, we would, of course, support them. So I don't know what you make of that, whether you feel there's any kind of hope or movement there that you will get what you want.
7:16Gabby:So obviously from that response, the first thing is that when you refer to people having, you know, being deaf, but they have a disability, they're not in the Paralympics because of the deafness. deafness is not the disability that allows them to be part of the paralympics so obviously hearing that's disappointing the deaflympics has been going on over 100 years as i said before and at the end of the day i think that the fact that we're not supported anyways discrimination we're isolated from sports from society and this is just another example of how we're being isolated and um obviously my campaign and going to the you know dcms and they literally took everything we said and be really positive about what we were saying they completely agree with us yeah and
8:02Nathan Young:just to reiterate as well you can't wear hearing aids while competing so unless serious adaptations were made to help integrate deaf athletes it's not as if we have some advantage to the fact that we
8:14Charlotte Gower:can hear in our daily lives when we're doing the sport it's not as if we can suddenly hear everything like able-bodied people it feels as if they single out the disability and say actually you're not as your disability isn't like everyone else in the Paralympics so no we're not gonna allow you to compete with them.
8:32Gabby:And going on like in society we we get you know personal independence when we get support in school get extra time in society we are considered disabled but as soon as it comes to sport all of a sudden actually you know you're okay you can you can get by without the support and I think that's just a that's the disappointing thing to hear.
8:51Nathan Young:And presumably it would help if the coverage of the Deaf Olympics was was kind of raised up a little bit. People like me who work in sport had an idea that it was even going on. Where does it actually get covered? Where do you see it?
9:03Charlotte Gower:Well, for the Deaflympics this year, it's being covered by, is it LimeLimoTV? That's about it. I mean, it's not being covered on any major like channels or anything. So the only way you'd be able to watch it is through the small channel that are covering it.
9:19Nathan Young:But we should kind of find out about it in the mainstream media, shouldn't we? And I guess you've got the opportunity with things like Instagram and X to get the message over there and to talk about what you're doing and what you're achieving. How will Team GB do in the Deaf Olympics?
9:33Gabby:Well, we aim high. So I think, you know, obviously I was a previous Deaf Olympic medalist. In 2017, we obviously missed the next one because of COVID. So I'm hopefully trying to get on that podium again. I'm sure Charlotte will be.
Read the full transcript
9:47Nathan Young:Yeah, it'll be amazing to get on the podium. And it will help, of course, raise the profile. Exactly. yeah and how many will there be in total in your team for swimming i think it's about 10 isn't yeah
9:55Gabby:it's quite small it's quite a small team yeah but compared to previously i was it was only sure the last world championships in argentina there was two of us right and the previous ones before that three three competitions i went on my own right so the fact that you know we've got a young team coming through it's about keeping that and giving them the support to keep on going into later ages and achieved.
10:21Nathan Young:Charlotte, I hear that there's a world record pending.
10:24Charlotte Gower:Well, it hasn't been ratified yet, but I have broken it. Yeah, it'd be really amazing. Which world record was that, Paul? It's the 200 Backstroke, but it's a short course. The Deaf Limits is long course. It's not the same distance, but I have broken it twice now, so it's just taken a while to be processed and stuff.
10:44Nathan Young:Yeah. And in terms of the deaf community, and what this means for you as somebody as you say Nathan you were born deaf to have role models and to see people you know kind of in society doing things with similar challenges explain
11:01Gabby:what that means to you I think it means a lot because obviously like I said I was born deaf and I didn't have that deaf role model to have maybe a deaf role model that I could have looked up to and maybe said that you know everything's going to be okay yeah it would have made me feel no reassured in myself and probably given me a lot more confidence, maybe things would have been different but sport's given me so much and I know what it could give to Charlotte and give to many others for the rest of her lives
11:27Nathan Young:And Charlotte, for those who are kind of wondering what the differences are for you guys in a competitive environment and why you wouldn't compete within the Olympics just explain the adaptations that needed
11:37Charlotte Gower:Well, for training, I don't swim with my hearing aids in so I can't hear very well in the pool in training so obviously there's adaptions that the coaches make so it makes training more difficult and then in terms of racing obviously when you're swimming there's a noise to start the race like a beep and we wouldn't be able to hear that so we use a light so that's the disadvantage and then just the disadvantage in training makes it difficult in general so you feel a bit like everyone that say bodies has a better chance at getting better because their training is easier and they obviously with the start at some lower level competitions in uk there isn't even a light they don't have the opportunity so some younger swimmers that they don't even might even not have the opportunity of using a light at the moment that puts them at a disadvantage right so those the things that in
12:28Nathan Young:competition we'd see yeah being quite different and i imagine across other sports there are there are other challenges as well when you're in the water it's not really that big of a difference
12:37Charlotte Gower:to an able-bodied swimmer it's just the starting and the training i guess and and is there sign
12:42Nathan Young:language used around the competition?
12:44Gabby:Yeah, so it's actually an amazing thing to witness and I think, you know, Charlotte being at the first competition, I'm looking forward to seeing the younger students witness it because obviously I've been to a few and, you know, obviously if you go to another country as a hearing person, you can't really talk to other people but in the deaf world there's a thing called the international sign language which I obviously picked up a little bit over the years. I can talk to someone from Japan that we don't speak the same language but we can sign and we can have a long competition but we can sort of get our points across and my best mate's actually got me to get him an Abbey Road cap to take back to Argentina's best mate and he's obviously speech, I think it's Portuguese over there, I can have a full on signing competition.
13:26Gabby:Spanish is it? Spanish or Portuguese yeah so yeah signing's such an amazing language and you know it's an amazing experience. Do you sign anyway?
13:35Charlotte Gower:Oh no I was quite lucky I was, I can speak because my hearing's not as bad as some people but I'm definitely going to have to try and pick some up before I go because like Nathan says it'll be amazing to be able to communicate with all the different athletes
13:45Nathan Young:so in terms of the officials around as well I presume you have to lip read as well
13:50Gabby:yes at the international competition it's all interpreters you've got the interpreters there but yeah in this country it's a bit difficult when we're at a racing competition because you are having to sort of rely on the other centres obviously it's like when we go to race in this country we only have this one light that flashes when to go so when we're on the block we don't hear the whistle to get up on the block we don't hear the taking marks so i don't know how charlotte
14:19Charlotte Gower:it relies on being very aware of everyone else you've got to be thinking i don't realize it a lot but actually i'm looking every time someone's speaking i'm looking at their face and i'm lip reading them and then i'll be aware of what the other swimmers are doing because otherwise you
14:33Nathan Young:just will miss out on things or and and as a kid when when you have something that is an extra challenge to overcome compared to say your peers in your class at school describe for us what it's like then when you find you have a talent in a sport and what it means well I think it's quite
14:49Charlotte Gower:like comforting almost because it feels like as if the the hearing loss isn't like the end all there's certainly times when you think you're missing out on lots of things but I think swimming because it's an individual sport as well I find it a lot easier than competing in team sports and it feels a lot like it's all on me and I don't have to rely on everyone else so definitely I find it comforting like when I go swimming I don't have to worry about like here listening to people because I'm just under the water and it's just like blocked out so it's really nice and going to the Deflin Picks will be nice to be surrounded by people you feel the same way and like anybody
15:25Nathan Young:in sport when you feel you're good at something your self-esteem is given such a boost exactly
15:30Gabby:exactly yeah so obviously yeah like I mentioned before growing up and obviously the self-esteem being low having that that space where you can just because obviously listening it's really challenging going to school all day and having to lip read as well as you know being able to communicate with people having that space away is is definitely it's quite a lot of effort actually
15:51Charlotte Gower:like because at school especially you're trying to listen and take in the information and it takes a lot of effort actually if people don't realise that.
16:00Nathan Young:So on a positive, let's finish on a positive. It's coming up in the next few weeks. You're going out to Tokyo. Oh my gosh. I mean, that is an assault on the senses going to Tokyo anyway in terms of what you will see, what you will, you know, the whole experience in terms of the food and the culture there is just fantastic. So you'll have an amazing time, I'm sure. And best of luck. Bring it home. Bring home the medals. Thank you. Thank you very much. When we come back, we'll bring you the best bits from this week.
16:26Gabby:The Sports Agents.
16:30Gabby:The Sports Agents With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman
16:37Nathan Young:On Tuesday, we looked at the NBA gambling scandal which broke last week with Andy Hughes who hosts our sister podcast, The Crime Agents and Mike Virkhanov who is the athletics basketball business reporter I love the fact that it is still five big New York mafia families who control all of this and they still rely on x-ray glasses as well to my mind i would have thought they were well into like kind of cyber crime by now right i would have thought they'd have moved away from kind of x-ray glasses on a poker table and they're almost in plain sight aren't they these guys well yeah i mean they kind of always have been that old school and they i mean betting has always been a staple for them and the reason they got involved is it was just a steady stream of income for them and it was actually relatively low risk way less risky than drug trafficking or extortion or anything like that.
17:30Nathan Young:So they've always seen this as just, listen, we're not going to make easy money. I mean, even back in the 70s, John Gotti was making 15 million quid a year and he was saying, that's just a little steady earner for me. So that kind of tells you how big their enterprise is. And we spoke to former England cricketer Phil Tuffnell. Tuffers has just written a new book which focuses on his 50 ashes here as he played himself in five Ashes series, didn't win one of them. And as always, we laughed a lot.
18:00Gabby:I've got this little card coming through saying, Phil, you are selected to play. And so off I went, you know, and you think, oh my God, this is really happening, you know. And then I've turned up at the hotel and they didn't particularly know who I was. I was the young up and coming spin bowler like that. And they said, right, get there Friday evening, Saturday morning. We're all going to go off for the great adventure. So I turned up there, got there about seven o 'clock. I thought early night and get myself to bed, got there about seven o 'clock. I put bargain hunt on or something and then went, well, it's a bit, this is a bit boring.
18:32Gabby:So I went down to the bar and there they all were, you know, the likes of Smith, Lamb, Wayne Larkins and all these guys who I didn't particularly know. So I said, I better go and introduce myself because I hadn't played against any of them like that. And I'm standing behind them like that for what felt about 10 minutes. And they're having a pint and having a laugh. and then all of a sudden Alan Lamb swiveled round on his barstool and he's gone, all right, son, would you like an autograph? And I went, no. I said, no, I'm your left arm spinner. I'm coming with you. And he said, oh, are you? I've never known who the bloody hell are you.
19:11Gabby:You know what I mean? And then they sort of went, well, you better come and have a pint then, lad. And so I sat down there and had a pint. And then for the next two and a half months, It was like the best Club 18 or 30 holiday I've ever been on.
19:28Nathan Young:That's it for another week on The Sports Agents. If you've been listening to this on the News Agents feed, just search for The Sports Agents to listen to those episodes in full on YouTube, Global Player, or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember to hit subscribe or follow. And please do keep getting in touch with us on email at thesportsagentsatglobal.com on social media, or you could do it via the link in the show notes. New episodes every Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Thanks for listening.
19:49Gabby:The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.
From the publisher
Did you know the government doesn't fund deaf athletes, because they aren’t allowed to compete at the Paralympics?
For 100 years now they’ve been holding their own competition - the Deaflympics - where referee whistles are replaced by flag signals, and starting guns by flashing lights. But no Paralympics means no funding. All because they were born with the so-called “wrong” disability. Great Britain medal hopefuls Charlotte Gower and Nathan Young join Gabby.
Plus we look back at the best bits from this week on The Sports Agents from the NBA gambling scandal featuring the mafia and x-ray glasses with Andy Hughes (Co-Host of The Crime Agents podcast) and The Athletic's Mike Vorkunov; to a love letter to the Ashes with some hilarious stories from Phil Tufnell.
You can watch the Deaflympics live on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/@TOKYO2025DEAFLYMPICS And find out more information about DeaflympicsGB here: https://www.deaflympicsgb2025.co.uk/
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