What does a Post-Pep Guardiola Premier League look like?

0:02This is a Global Player original podcast. Particularly with Arsenal, how global their success feels. One of the greatest achievements we've ever seen in Premier League football, not far off what Leicester did. Where is he going? Days with Moresca that you end up with like just pep line.

0:19Adam Crafton:Is he going to have a clear out based on talent or a clear out based on personality?

0:31Adam Crafton:Welcome to the Sports Agents. Hi, Gabby. Hello, Mark. Are you keeping cool? Well, I mean, obviously. Obviously. I am, because I seem to spend my whole time in air-conditioned studios, so I haven't really managed to get outside at all at the moment. Well, when we talk about something later, I'll tell you perhaps the most surreal moment of my weekend. But anyhow, this podcast today will obviously be rounding up everything that has happened in the Premier League, over the weekend, the end of the season, more tears than a wedding cake across, weren't there? How many goodbyes? Goodness me. Yeah, it is about teams who are potentially fighting relegation and ended up being relegated.

1:15It is about teams who are looking for Europe and it is about teams who won the title. But I think for a lot of people, it was about saying goodbye to Pep Guardiola and his magnificent reign. So we're going to talk more about that and what could be next for him.

1:27Adam Crafton:And we'll also look at the teams coming up as well. So Hull, Ipswich, Coventry, will they all go straight back down? Will they do what Sunderland have done and qualify for the Europa League? When you look at title winners, teams that have been relegated, even the European places, it has been a bit of a change, hasn't it? It's not been the same old this season. And it's been very exciting because of it. And to see different names in that European kind of birth is very exciting. And to see teams scrapping at the bottom who we don't normally see scrapping at the bottom. I think it's been a great season in many ways.

2:00I know there's been this perceived kind of idea that's not been a classic season, but I think it's kept us gripped most of the time.

2:06Adam Crafton:Yeah, I think sometimes the football's been dull at times, but the actual storylines have been really interesting. It would help if the football was as interesting as the storyline. But that isn't a dig at Arsenal, by the way. That's just a general kind of hasn't been the most free-flowing of seasons with the league. But the storylines have been really interesting. But you want to do something before football, don't you? Just before we get into that, you may remember, if you've been listening to the Sports Agents from the very beginning, one of our first ever episodes was talking about the prospect of an enhanced games, Games where the contestants, the sports people, whatever you want to call them, the guinea pigs, would be able to pump themselves up with drugs and steroids and not face being tested because it's an open competition.

2:53They don't have to take enhancing drugs, performance enhancing drugs if they don't want to. And it has come to fruition this last weekend in Las Vegas, where else? and I'm pleased to report, Mark, that for all the hoo-ha and furore and saying that, you know, world records, the likes of which, you know, kind of Usain Boltz would be beaten and how everybody who beats a world record would get a million dollars, there was actually in the end just one world record that was beaten and it was Christian Gokholmiv of Greece who actually took the men's 50 metre freestyle. He's 32 years old. Now, 50 metre freestyle isn't actually an Olympic event because that's a short course event.

3:33So, yeah, he's the only one really who's had any life-changing kind of moments from it. But that won't be recognised, will it? No, no. Nothing from this game is going to be recognised. And also, bizarrely, most of the athletes who've talked about it, and Great Britain's Ben Proud was racing in there as well, have not actually said that they've taken drugs. Most of them said that they haven't taken drugs. So I'm really not sure what the point of it is or if we'll ever see it again. But I feel like we didn't need to worry too much. I feel like we always felt that, that it was always going to be a bit of a spectacle and potentially this whole thing, the investors are involved because of a big farmer play at the back of it.

4:13Adam Crafton:So nothing to see or move on? Let's move on. I missed all of that because I was filming a Christmas special game show with Alan Carr. Of course you were. As you can imagine, I was kind of out of my comfort zone. And I didn't feel very Christmassy doing that on a hot day in May, but there we are. No. Can you tell us any more about that experience? Oh, no, it's top secret. Although, let's just say I was very much a fish out of water.

4:43Did your competitive edge get you through it, though? I know you can't give the results away, but did you feel you were…

4:49Adam Crafton:Let's just say there was a competitive streak that might not have been there with other contestants. Also, there may have been a lack of Christmas outfit on me that all other contestants bought into. But that's something to look forward to when we get to the turn of the year. Excellent. Remember, you can catch up with all our previous episodes on YouTube, Global Player, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we'd love you to subscribe, follow, and leave a review while you're there. Adam Crafton, welcome to the Sports Agents. We speak to you the day after the Premier League season finally came to an end.

5:25And as Chapa said in our introduction, there was just lots of long, teary goodbyes going on all over the place. I mean, there was a little bit of excitement, although really, I think Spurs and Everton kind of ground out because of Everton's lack of willingness to give us a bit of jeopardy, didn't it? So we didn't really ever feel that Spurs weren't going to survive. What did you make of the whole day? What struck me more than anything was kind of just these kind of scenes that you got from so many different games. as you say there was the goodbyes but I was also struck by particularly with Arsenal maybe we'll come on to this to a certain extent is how global their success feels you know that you saw these like videos of kind of celebrations in Africa in in in New York I mean I should always say now any videos I see on Twitter I just have no idea if they're real or not however it did look like There were these incredible celebrations in Kenya and Uganda and things like that.

6:27So that was one of my big takeaways of the past week is how global Arsenal feel. That this feels like not only this thing that has happened in England, but this real kind of global sporting event.

6:39Adam Crafton:So has that felt big in America then, Arsenal's win? Because obviously they have American owners. and I think they have done, I think they've done such a good job, the club as a whole, in how, and this is a horrible thing to say as a football fan, what they have done with their brand over the last five or six years is really impressive and that will set them up for on the field stuff. Do you know what I think, Gabby? Even the way they use righty or former players and their retro gear, they seem to be on that a bit more before everybody else. Everything is pointing in the right direction. And they also, Adam, like Anne Hathaway and who else was there?

7:34John Legend has been to many games. They've got these global superstars who seem to be genuine Arsenal fans and their reach is incredible. And they get them on the pitch. They get them with the players. They are. I think their commercial department needs, I think, praise. I think it's a really great thing for the club and the game. I think it's a mix I think it's a mix of this organic kind of curiosity about Arsenal for particularly kind of particularly if you talk about America kind of people in their 30s 40s early 50s who maybe first came into soccer 20 you know 25 20 years ago when Wenger is there and this team was a it looked different to a lot of other teams in the Premier League You know, it played differently from a diversity point of view.

8:28It was different. I'm always struck when I watch games at Arsenal that the crowd, I think, is more diverse than most other stadiums in the country. I think you've seen it with the celebrations in London over the past week or so. The crowd has a different makeup to what you see at quite a few other teams in the country. And just on a kind of celebrity point of view, I mean, in Brooklyn in New York, there is, you know, a bar where like Spike Lee and the New York City mayor Zoran Mamdani go and watch the games together, which has become, you know, the place where Arsenal fans descend for games. And I must say, I mean, it's not just yesterday you saw all these Arsenal shirts walking around Manhattan.

9:11It's pretty often the athleisure, as you say, is a big thing as well.

9:14Adam Crafton:The other thing, with the final thing on this, is, and we have touched on it before, but don't underestimate the working relationship between the Cronkies' other massive sporting franchise, which is the LA Rams, who equally have a young head coach who is seen as incredibly innovative in Sean McVay. They try and do things a little bit differently to the Rams. I know Arteta and McVay have got a relationship, a working relationship where they ask each other for advice and bounce off each other. And the Rams came very close to getting to the Super Bowl last year. They're one of the Super Bowl favourites again.

9:55Adam Crafton:They've won one Super Bowl under McVay. There is a relationship there between those two. And then if you throw the LA showbiz side in that the Rams probably benefit from as well, that's that's a big working you know we talk about multi multi football club ownership well actually that's a that's a multi-franchise ownership that has that benefits them both yeah i mean the cronkers now have an amazing record i mean they've basically won everything in sport over the past the past few years but but the um i was talking the other day to josh blank who is the son of arthur blank who's the owner of the atlanta team in the nfl and mls and he was saying there was an NFL I think there was an owners meeting or some sort of meeting between ownership groups maybe last week or the week before and it was a night where Arsenal were playing one of their big decisive games and he said the kind of the cheer that went up from the Rams guys when it went either the way it may have been the Everton City game or one of the big Arsenal games that was last week Adam so so that was okay the owners meeting I think they had it in Miami and so Monday night Arsenal Burnley and then Tuesday night Bournemouth Manchester City I love the fact of all the NFL owners sitting there watching Arsenal Burnley that would really that would really tickle me but the Burnley Burnley are owned by Americans as well yeah JJ Watts involved there no no complete so so that just gives you an idea that there is this kind of shared interest in each other between these groups the other big story affecting the top of the table and the future, I guess, in terms of where the challenge is going to come from for Arsenal was the departure of Pep Guardiola, which was incredibly emotional.

11:40And obviously, there were key players leaving as well, Bernardo Silva and John Stones. And 10 years, 20 trophies, a complete kind of reimagining of football in the top flight. And again, kind of pulling what looked like a bit of a soulless acquisition, you know, detached owners from, you know, far, far away. What's the history in football? Why do they want to buy this club? You know, to kind of bring that club kind of back to us in some way into the kind of spirit of the city and not all be about the noisy neighbours and all of that. You know, there's so much that has happened in that era. It is, I read today, you know, he's the greatest Manchester City manager ever.

12:23Is he, do you think, potentially the greatest Premier League manager ever? Has he got a case to rivals for Alex Ferguson? Yeah, I mean, he's got a case. Of course he's got a case. He's won. What's against him? The concentration. I think it's just the longevity that, you know, Ferguson was there longer. I think Ferguson probably

12:45Adam Crafton:had it more difficult. I was going to say, to help you, I think they're very difficult to compare because they are so different and in different eras. And I think Ferguson's man management and overall leadership of a club is very difficult, to borrow his phrase, is very difficult to knock him off his perch. But Guardiola, and this was a discussion I was having the other day on air, is Guardiola has changed the way football is played in this country. And not just the Premier League, but it was with Alan Shearer actually yesterday. But League Two, National League, under-14s boys or girls football, everybody's trying to play out from the back.

13:42Adam Crafton:Everybody's trying to have a goalkeeper that can play with their feet and pass it to the centre-halves and do it a certain way or trying an inverted full-back. and I think that's probably I think the fact that they are two different types of leaders probably makes it quite difficult to compare would be my take Yeah, no, I think that's right and I think also, I mean, he therefore has made a lot of people look very stupid the last few years attempting to play like that I imagine at under 14 level or on a Sunday league game or even at other parts of the Premier League given some of the other teams we've seen try and do this.

14:23I do think, I'm always wary with Pep of like separating, you know, saying he's just the tactician. I think to drive a group of players to, you know, four Premier Leagues in a row, you know, to win the league the year after the treble, you could see the relationship he has with the players, even just with the farewells yesterday. I don't think his man management as well should be underappreciated in all of this. what I loved I didn't see all of the after bit because I was doing other things after the game but then I watched it back this morning just him talking basically talking to his dad almost in the stands yesterday I think his 95 year old dad who he kind of gave the impression that his dad didn't really know how big a deal that his son was in Manchester and kind of this pride at having his name his father's name on the stand for generations.

15:17I thought that was really, really, really, really nice. And then what they did for Bernardo Silva and for John Stones in terms of the farewells, we've seen a lot of, I mean, if I just think of other players over the years who have left by the back door at big clubs, not get that kind of send-off that really you should get after all that time. I thought City handled that really beautifully. However, what do we think of the Guard of Honours in the middle of the game? by both teams yeah I don't think that's a trend that we should be looking to be replicated regularly, I'm not sure about that but what I did notice was he used the word tired a few times and of course we're all exhausted at the end those of us who haven't played are exhausted but it feels like his tiredness is a decade's worth of time because everything you read about him from every player is this 24-7 intensity he never switches off he cannot even when his players are not playing for him and they're playing for their countries he's offering them a piece of advice and so that will take him time I think to recoup from but I also can't see him never getting involved in any other way in management again or in a head coach's position ever again it just doesn't feel like Klopp, the longer he's kind of out from that direct relationship with players you can see him enjoying that balance but I'm not sure I can see that with Pep.

16:45I feel that he'll be back. Even with Klopp, to be fair, I think, I interviewed Klopp maybe September, October time and he kind of gave this sense of, I probably won't manage again. But then you start seeing him do more and more kind of interviews in the last few months where the door's a bit more open, the door's a bit more ajar. And I think he probably does miss it a little bit. And I don't think it's the last time we've seen Pep coach. I'm just not quite sure where he goes. Is it maybe Italy? He's not done Italy yet. PSG. Could you see him doing a national side? I could see him getting offers from national sides for sure.

17:24I mean, the US have spoken to him before. England had a big interest in him previously. I just don't know with his intensity and how hard he works to develop systems, whether it would actually be suited to him. But maybe that's underestimating, you know,

17:40Adam Crafton:his ability to adapt. Are you trying to avoid Sunderland qualifying for the Europa League, Gabby? Is that what you're trying to do? Did they? Did they qualify for the Europa League? That's nice. That's nice for them. I mean, it works on lots of levels. I think it does that. I'll leave Gabby out of it if she does what to say. Do you know what I think, Adam, in that one is just, if you haven't been to Sunderland, if you haven't gone to, they are a big club. They are a seriously big club with a big fan base. and them in Europe, in the Europa League, is going to be some adventure. For them and for us covering it as well.

18:20Adam Crafton:But also, I think it gives hope to teams coming up. I think it shows that do it the right way. Yes, they've spent money. They bought 15 players. They spent£160 million. But they recruited well. I mean, they're not the only club who spent money trying to recruit and then they've done badly. they have recruited really well and if you are coventry or ipswich to a lesser extent whole because i think people don't know whether they're going to be allowed to spend any money or not um at this stage but if you are coming to it you must look at them and say okay well look we may not finish seventh we may not be able to spend 160 million pounds but do it the right way and there is a chance no for sure but i mean also sunderland five places above newcastle in the end, which is pretty remarkable.

19:14Well, I mean, I always think for Sunderland fans, that's probably as big a deal as getting into the Europa League. And what's also interesting is if you just look at the gap between, I mean, Leeds in 14th, Sunderland in 7th,

19:28Adam Crafton:there's only seven points in that in the end, which I think gives even more hope to those teams going up that really from kind of outside of the top five or so, it's a pretty open field if you get a bit of momentum and you get your recruitment right and you start winning a few games. Sutherland might play AC Milan next season. They might play in the San Siro next season. It is incredible from that perspective. The flip side of it is it makes me worry a bit about them for the Premier League in the second season. You see that so often, actually, don't you? Yeah, and maybe that's what you're clinging to, is the ray of hope for next season.

20:13But that is going to make their recruitment really tricky because they're going to need a bigger squad, which means you have to carry more players, which means it's harder to develop that real unity that you get. Even Forrest this season, who had a fantastic run in the Europa League, it was pretty difficult for them in terms of how they balanced that size of squad, but also remaining competitive in the Premier League. So they've got, I think their summer recruitment may have changed based on what happened yesterday. Because if you finish ninth and you just get to have another good season currently on what you do.

20:48It's why I don't think it's a bad thing for Brentford in some ways, the way where they've ended. I think they'll probably end up having a better Premier League season as a result of being out. But for those of us who want football to be about dreaming and trophies and runs and experiencing new things, of course, it's fantastic. And for Marco Rosa taking over at Bournemouth, you know, what a joy to come in and go, I've got European football, got a team that was knocking on the door of the Champions League. It's not a bad gig to pick up, is it? I mean, I couldn't really believe that. I mean, obviously between Liverpool and City, they sort of messed it up for Bournemouth yesterday.

21:26but if um if Bournemouth had got into the Champions League and then the coach who took Bournemouth I know Bournemouth into the Champions League was then like I'm gonna go somewhere else I mean I couldn't get my head around it because that that is just the most it would have been I think one of the greatest achievements we've ever seen in in Premier League football not far off really what Leicester did to be honest because I mean look at the size of the stadium they

21:56Adam Crafton:shouldn't be anywhere near it and and even I mean even being in the Europa League is some achievement and and he's been on this podcast as Andoni Areola and he was great to talk to wasn't he Gabby he's just really interesting and really relaxed to talk to but I do wonder what he's thinking at the moment because where do you go where where where is he gonna where is he going and that's the question that so many people are asking each other more than glasner more than anybody else what where is he going and also now that they are where they are finished where is he going to go that actually will be better for him i think it's really in i think it's really interesting unless there's something lined up on the continent that we we don't know about but it is interesting where he's going to go i mean there was talk about athletic bill bow wasn't there which seems to have gone away a certain extent um real madrid obviously looks like it's going to be mourinho um there's a few jobs that i think are likely to pop up in italy but i think it'd be a real shame to lose him from english football because he seems to just be on that that upward trajectory i'm not i wonder whether he just took the decision i interviewed in the start of the season when bournemouth were on pre-season in america and he hadn't signed a contract at that point and he kind of gave this answer about oh I don't really believe in contracts you know because managers get sacked all the time anyway which felt like an answer that meant I'm probably going um at the end of the season and maybe he just thought that's as much as I can probably do with Bournemouth which is it was a bit sad if he has thought like that and if he's just thought I want to put myself on the market essentially and maybe he is maybe he does actually get a few months off over the summer and then he becomes the first cab off the rank when big clubs make a change next season.

23:50Maybe that's what he's positioning as because, you know, in some ways I look at Chelsea and I thought he might have been a better fit in there. You know, Liverpool, we're still waiting, I guess, for full confirmation, although it looks like slot is staying. There was a point, I think, where Newcastle maybe were thinking of making a change, but now it looks like Eddie Howe's going to stay. So I just wonder whether he overplayed his hand a bit and thought there's going to be more available than there is.

24:16Adam Crafton:I wonder whether City fans would warm to him more than they would to Maresca. I know it's not confirmed and the succession planning has been quite detailed and stuff. But as a sort of character or as an individual, but also seeing how previous clubs' fan bases have reacted to both of them, I wonder whether he would bring more warmth to the City fan base than Maresca. I don't know. I think he's more charismatic, having spent time with them both, for sure. Maresca, I guess, is more... I mean, he almost... It's almost like they've sort of taken... I know, it's a double, isn't it? Body double, yeah.

25:02But I think there's a real danger with Maresca that you end up with just pep light. You know, the football trying to be the same, but not quite as good. trying to be as handsome but not quite as handsome you know it's it's that kind of it I think there is a risk of that but he's been he's been in the system with them and I also think when I look at the makeup of City's squad now actually although I Raola sometimes plays without the ball more than a pep team would City have started to evolve in that way they've become a bit more direct um you know with Haaland Semenyo Dokum you could imagine that actually City having even less of the ball, but still being an exciting team to watch.

25:41The only thing I wonder with the Iola is Bournemouth have had a lot of injuries and that's without having European games. And I wonder whether some clubs have just looked at the way they play, the intensity they play, and wonder how that would translate from a squad management over the course of a full season. OK, well, Spurs did stay in the Premier League by the skin of their teeth. Roberto De Zerbi did just about enough. But is he the man to lead them back up the table next time round? or is he another casualty in waiting? More with Adam next.