Why were so many English clubs humbled in Champions League?

0:01This is a Global Player Original Podcast. It's not an admission. It's a reality of where the group are. They've played over 100 games in 18 months. They've had no break in terms of the international games, the travelling that, say, as Yao Pedro, Enzo Fernandes and Moe Caicedo do to South America. It's not an excuse. And then six became two. Just weeks ago, we were talking about English dominance in Europe. Now, it's just Liverpool and Arsenal who make it through to the quarterfinals of the Champions League. The four sides that went out conceded 28 goals between them in the last 16. Liam Rossini said his players were fatigued.

0:41But did English clubs have dominance even in the first place? And sticking with Europe, Bodo Glimps were on the verge of an historic Champions League quarterfinal with Arsenal. And then a capitulation in Lisbon saw their fairy tale come to an end. And Gabby's hopes of a trip to Bodo coming to an end. How did a town with a population that could fit inside the Etihad make it this far? Can other smaller clubs follow suit? How is this season's success for them? All down to Tottenham. Welcome to The Sports Agents.

1:19The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Hello, Mark. Hi, Gabby. So the dream is over. But what's amusing about this is that we actually spoke to Lars before the second leg of that last 16 tie against Sporting Lisbon and kind of did it in a way of we think they'll go through. How amazing. And Gabby should be able to go to Bodo to cover the quarterfinal. And I would be because the quarterfinal I'm doing that night now I am going to Lisbon. So it would have been Bodo. Yeah, because we never know who's going to get which games and which nights they're going to fall on. but I can tell you that trip was just, it was there.

2:01It was in the palm of my hand. It's gone. I know. I love Lisbon. It's a great city but I've been there before. So it's a really nice interview with Lars Sivetson a little bit later and it's still massively relevant. It's just taken a little bit of editing to take some of the optimism out of it. Yeah, it's been a strange week, hasn't it? I don't think anybody really saw any other outcome. Those were the two teams, weren't they? Arsenal and Liverpool who were predicted out of the six to come back from those quite dreadful first legs for quite a few teams. But it's the manner as well. I mean, that first half of Newcastle, I thought we were going to have a right ding-dong.

2:37It's going to be you score one, I score one, and then just obviously got away from them in the second half. But even Manchester City's kind of limping through that game, really. It never really came to life that match, did it, in terms of hope for City? I mean, they had a few chances earlier. The first five minutes, they could have had two, couldn't they and then they were reduced to 10 I think and one of the things I've tried to speak to the pundits about this week when doing the Champions League is look the teams that have gone out had very difficult ties you know they were taking on the elite of Spain and France basically they didn't get the draw say of a with all due respect of a Bodo Bayern Munich obviously got Atalanta didn't they or Atalanta So I do take that into account in all of this soul searching.

3:29By the way, on this soul searching as well, I don't think football fans really give two hoots, to be honest. I think you support your club and the relative strength of a domestic league is something that the media obsesses about. But it is interesting just standing back and looking at a season, isn't it? Because every year Clarence Seardorff says to us, don't get too excited in October, November and December. It's where it all starts is February and March. And when you look at PSG, who can persuade their league regularly, as they do, to postpone matches to help them prepare for Champions League games, let alone having the winter breaks that Arna Slott keeps mentioning that we don't have.

4:04Yes, Arna, we've noticed. And the FA Cup and Carabao Cups coming as they do in this very congested period as well. We are kind of really stacking the odds against English teams, aren't we? Well, a little bit, but then you go the other way and I think a lot of fans of other Premier League clubs would then go, well, why would we alter the fixture list to favour them in Europe? Yeah, I don't think we should. And I think that's the odd thing in some ways. You know, Paris Saint-Germain, yes, you know, they have all the power in that league to be able to go, well, you know, can we rearrange this and not play them and so on and so forth.

4:46and other countries have winter breaks i i sort of understand that as well although i am incredibly cynical about that in this country because i think we all know that several of them would probably go off somewhere and rich and player friendly and earn some money i just think going back to that point they've had they've had difficult opponents but they've been absolutely walloped. I mean, you know, Chelsea have conceded eight over two legs, City five over two legs, Spurs seven over two legs, Newcastle eight over two legs. They haven't lost 2-1 or 3-2 on aggregate. They have been smashed. Now, actually, you do get a lot of big scorelines in these games at the moment.

5:34Look at what Bayern have done. Look at the Sporting Bodo game as well. But they have really struggled and Oliver Kay on The Athletic wrote that he that he he's looked at some of these teams and they seem to struggle coming up against expansive attacking fast-breaking teams because the Premier League isn't that anymore it is attritional and deep-line defences and to be honest quite dull a lot of the time. Well the team who are being accused of playing the dullest and most, you know, because they rely so much on their set piece, obviously, and a lot of people giving Arsenal stick for their style of dominance are still in it, right?

6:19And you wouldn't bet against them getting through to another semi-final this year against Sporting Lisbon. So is there something in the fatigue? I say this only because there's a table on the BBC Sports website, which I put on our group today, which is quite interesting about about days lost to injury. And the average Premier League amount of days would be 675. And most five of the six clubs who were in the last 16 in the Champions League from this country had a lot more days than that. Only Liverpool actually had fewer. Newcastle had 1 ,006 days. Tottenham, 1 ,128, which won't surprise you, were top.

6:56So a lot of football does lead to a lot more injuries. And that obviously has played its part. I think there would be plenty of other teams who would go, hang on a minute, you're the richest league in the world and you've got massive squads and you pump all the money into your academy. So you have the, do you know what I mean? There will always be a counter. Yeah, and you're a Manchester United fan. Manchester United are doing very well at the moment in the league. They're not playing in any other competitions. No. You know, there is definitely. I'm well aware of that. There is definitely a link, right?

7:27There's definitely a link between the amount of football you play if you haven't got, you know, the talent there. But I'm not, listen, I'm not getting a tiny, small violin out and playing it for the Premier League at all. Right. You know, those clubs deserve to go through who won this week. And they are great to watch. You know, Paris Saint-Germain are just turning on the right time. They are scintillating when they when they play well. And I wish them wish them all the very best. It's just it just feels there's something something skewed here that, you know, is maybe going to prevent any more than two going through and, you know, to quarterfinals in future years, even if we get five or six through.

7:59I also find the whole debate quite interesting when people sort of, what the metric is for best league in the world. You know, what, what, what, what? And they will always say, well, yeah, richest or, you know, top can, top can beat bottom. Anybody can beat anybody at any time. Anybody can beat anybody. Bottom can beat, bottom can beat top. Well, actually, I'm not sure that's necessarily been the case the last couple of years in the Premier League. although Wolves have started to turn it round a little bit. Well, according to Opta, Burnley, who are currently the lowest ranked side in the Premier League, are tougher opposition than nine teams in Spain's La Liga and 11 teams in Syria.

8:41And I'm not sure how they come up with those metrics. But, you know, even the top European experts that we speak to would say that there's a competition between maybe five or six teams in those leagues. And actually, they would expect to beat every other team below them. In Germany, maybe even fewer, such as Bayern Munich's dominance at the moment. What would they be in La Liga? So they would be tougher opposition than nine teams in Spain's La Liga. So that means they probably sit mid-table. And 11 teams in Italy's Syria. So rumours that Burnley are applying to play in Syria. so if i was to follow if i was to follow opta there that they would be tougher opposition the nine teams in in la liga that would mean that they are that they are tougher than valencia severe and mallorca who are all who are all in the the lower reaches of la liga i'd we should explore this more i would love to know how they work that out because how does that take into into account crowds and atmosphere and injuries.

9:49And I'd be really interested in that. Well, let's get somebody from Optron to explain how they come up with those metros. Let's talk to the supercomputer. Can we just have a while we're talking Burnley, let's move a few miles over to Bolton and talk about their bid to become the first English host of the Ryder Cup in more than 30 years. Andy Burnham, who, of course, is the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the bid was not pie in the sky. It makes a great headline, doesn't it? Bolton and the Ryder Cup. But we thought one of Bolton's favourite sons, prodigal sons, because he lives and spends all his time in the South, of course, should tell us why Bolton should be the host of the Ryder Cup.

10:31Here's Vernon Kay. Hi, Gabby. Hi, Mark. I believe you're looking for someone who's obsessed with golf and is from Bolton. Well, Padre McGuinness is way too expensive, so I've taken the baton and I'll do it. Bolton is a tremendous town. It's a great spirited town and its catchment area for sport is massive. It sits between Liverpool and Manchester, so it's got great cities either side. It's on the cusp of the Yorkshire-Lancashire border, not really, but geographically, if you're telling Americans where Bolton is, you'd say it's pretty much that and it's got obsessive golf players golf fans if you think of the people that can get to Bolton within the UK it's so accessible it's got tremendous highways and byways to get to Bolton the opportunity to have the Ryder Cup in the town would be tremendous I mean let's not forget people are fully aware that Bolton Wanderers were one of the founding fathers of the football association I think it's a great opportunity to step away from the Fylde Coast and the Wirral and then bring it more inland, having the Ryder Cup in Bolton, I can't believe I'm saying it.

11:43It would be tremendous. And I completely agree with him. I completely agree with him. I think it would be amazing for Bolton. They are trying to put greater infrastructure in place already. And it would be somewhere different and not the usual open round. And you'd get to stay at home. I'd get to stay at home. That'd be dead easy. Quick half an hour journey into the Ryder Cup. every morning. That'd be perfect compared to some of them recently, which would take like an hour and a half to get to the course. Not that I'm complaining. It's an amazing thing to do. But yeah, I'm fully with Vernon. I'm fully with Vernon.

12:20Also, it's only our kind of perception as a nation of what Bolton is, in terms of thinking it's somehow a comedic suggestion. The rest of the world would go, Bolton? Lovely. Sounds lovely. You know, oh, that looks nice. The course looks lovely. Where can I go for the week? You know, Where can I stay? Oh, I could stay on the coast or I could stay in the centre of Manchester. I could stay in Liverpool. You know, it's actually, it's not a bad kind of idea at all, I don't think. No, and actually some of us up here think it's a perfectly normal idea. Why would you go anywhere else? And the other thing, bizarrely, this whole, the whole momentum of the Ryder Cup and how it has grown into what it has grown really started at the Belfry.

13:03And the Belfry, just in the sort of middle of the UK. The middle of Birmingham, covered in pylons. So this all started at a place that maybe, I don't know, whenever it was announced, and it wasn't as big then, maybe raised a few eyebrows. But that started not at one of the courses that's on the open rotation. No. The only thing that's disappointing about that was, And I know Vernon mentioned Paddy McGuinness there, but if you're going to talk, but you go to Sarah first, you go to Coxie first, and then, not that she plays golf, but then you work your way down. I didn't have Sarah's number in my phone, but also Vernon is a golfer.

13:43I don't think Sarah plays golf. No, that's also a very good point. She's a showjumper. Yes, she's an equestrian. So next time that they try and put the world showjumping championships in Bolton, I'll bring her on. Anyhow, enough of our chat about as our famous friends from Bolton. You can catch up on previous... Paddy McGuinness, do you have his number? I don't have Paddy's number. No, I don't have Paddy's number. I have the other two. I feel I could get it from Vernon if we need it. Yeah, well, we could all do that. Come on. You can catch up on the woman off the chase. She's from Bolton, isn't she?

14:17The vixen. You're just going, Amir Khan, he's from Bolton. Amir Khan. Are we just going through Bolton now? Peter Kay. Peter Kay. Where was I up to on the play? You can catch up with previous episodes. Yeah, there we are. YouTube Global Player, wherever you get your pods. And we'd love you to subscribe or follow and leave a review and do get in touch on socials at the Sports Agents or email thesportsagents at global.com. So is the success of Bodo Glimt really down to hiring a fighter pilot? The much edited interview with Lars Sivitson is next. The Sports Agents. The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman

15:02Lars, thank you so much for joining us I think Mark and I both cover the Champions League and the Bodo story this season has just given us all so much joy you know, you think you might be neutral in a fixture when you're watching a game but when Bodo are playing you can't but want them to do well There is something so beautiful about this whole story. So we want to kind of dive into some of the quirks of the club and some of the ways that they've managed to navigate this Champions League, while not even being in their regular season right now, which is just incredible, isn't it? And the challenges that they have.

15:39How long has this journey been going in terms of where they've got to now? So it has been a continuous thing over a number of years since they got... I mean, you have to go back to when they were in the second tier about eight, nine years ago. And they used to be a bit of a yo-yo club. It's not easy running a football club in the Arctic Circle and being competitive. And they were the first team from the North to win a trophy. So they have a history, but they've always been a bit of a yo-yo club. Then they got promoted and started being competitive near the top of the table. And when they won the league, that was considered a miracle in itself, which they've then proceeded to do a number of times.

16:16And then there's been a gradual progression in Europe, claiming their first scalps, you know, playing in the Europa League, the Europa Conference League, and finally getting to the Champions League. But I do remember a few years ago, they very narrowly lost the Champions League qualifier to Milan. And I remember thinking, oh, no, that was the moment, you know, they might not get a chance to do it again. But here they are. And it's their ability to keep raising the levels, keep taking on a bigger and bigger challenge is incredible. And I'm really glad that you're having this reaction to it, Gabby, because I'm at the risk of resorting to pomposity here.

16:48I do think this is not just a heartwarming story. I think it's an important story because what we're seeing in European football is that it's dominated by an ever smaller circle of ever richer clubs. And most of us don't support one of those clubs. Like a lot of us still support our local teams. So I think it's important that you have a team that shows that it is possible on a rational, sensible budget to achieve things, even if you don't have what we in Norway refer to as a rich uncle. So I would say if you're supporting Exeter or Torquay or whoever you are in the UK, you should be rooting for Boudiglund.

17:22Because if it's possible for them to go from the second tier of the Norwegian League and getting to this level without any kind of financial doping, it is possible for you guys as well. and that is why we buy our season tickets every year isn't it i don't want to go on a negative here but what is the reaction and the support of norwegian football fans not birdo fans but norwegian fans to this story because the more successful you are in the champions league the richer you become and by nature if you are in one of the smaller leagues in inverted commas your success can then distort the domestic competition yeah that is a concern i mean there There will be Norwegian fans who are passionate fans of Braun, of Wiking, of Rosenborg, of Wallringer, who look at this and think, yeah, this isn't good for us.

18:09This is not good for us at all. Because the amount of money that they're now bringing in, if they manage it carefully, yes, you could set up a dynasty. But here's the thing. They didn't win the league last year. Wiking from Savanger won the league last year, which is an incredible achievement by them. So it's still, again, the lesson is that everything is possible. And I like what Bodo Glimt have done with the extra income so far, because they have actually spent a fair amount of that money bringing back players that they had who left. Like if you look at the squad, a number of them were successful at Bodo Glimt, earned moves abroad, decided that they didn't like it.

18:44And Bodo Glimt have now spent some of that money that they've made to offer them better contracts if you want to come home and still play in Bodo. Let's talk about the practicalities of being a club inside the Arctic Circle, right? So the season finishes around November time and picks up again sometime in mid-March, I think. Is that right? Yeah, we just started the first round of the Norwegian League was this weekend. Yeah, so all these big scalps they've taken in the last few months have been out of season. They play on a plastic pitch, obviously. Spend a lot of time away from the area, away from Bode, because of the weather, training in other parts of Europe as well.

19:21So there's lots of practicalities that they have to consider. So when you're recruiting players, you're not saying come to our club and have a nice settled life. And it's, you know, you've got to kind of sway them into a very different football experience. Yeah, that's a really good point that you're struck on is the recruitment side of it. Because I do think one of the reasons they've done this, their superpower is the togetherness, is the community that they've created. I think that their coach, Jeter Knudsen, said something about the thing we're the best at is about being us, us as in the group.

19:51group and i think part of that success is that you get people through the building who 100 buy into this because if you if you have someone who's a massive egomaniac and thinks he's yeah that probably don't want to move to a city of 50 000 people inside the arctic circle like you you eradicate some of the wrong ends just by the nature of where you are and what the place is because you only go there if you're fully committed to being part of this group but of course it throws up some and this is a debate we're having in norway now is is it is it an advantage or a disadvantage to not be in the middle of the season i would argue still that is a disadvantage especially when you get to go to the first games like when you have to play competitive games not having played a competitive game for for so long it's a problem they've done so well they've had warm water training camps and i think the fact that they're so sharp physically in these encounters is a real credit to the players of course for the work they put in but also the coaching staff but it's not an easy thing to do it isn't the players have had to cancel holidays i mean usually in the winter you will go to the canary islands or something with their girlfriends and there were players who when they progressed when they went out of the group were like oh no like we had a holiday scheduled for this we have to cancel that um so they end up just not really having a break in a sense they it's like they've had to shift the pre-season and start the pre-season much earlier than any other team in norway is the way they've effectively done that they've played We haven't had a week off for a year, have they?

21:12No, effectively. I mean, there wasn't a lot going on around Christmas, but you still have to stay sharp. You can tell them to go and relax the way they normally would. And I think the way they've done this, I mean, the wins against City and Atleti were incredible, but it's also worth pointing out the point they got away to Dortmund because half the squad had the flu or something. Like there was illness in the group and they were not in a good place in the league qualification. The fact that they were able to go away in December after the league season would have to squat ill and get a point away to Dortmund that ended up of course being pivotal and it shows the really the determination and the steeliness that is in this group of players how much of this is down to the head coach and his staff a lot but I really want to highlight the fact that it is the strength of this is the community that they have which is I think is unique but of course the coach has done an absolutely incredible job he is as a tactician he's very brave you'll notice i mean the first half against sporting they were so good in possession the way they kept the ball the way they moved it and i think it's a real credit to him that they can play in different ways because in norway they are a possession team like they averaged like 63 possession or something in the league last year they control their games but of course as good as they are when you play city that's not going to happen so they've had to play games in the champions league where they've had to sit back where they've had to defend where they've had to be structured off the ball and it's an incredible achievement i think to be able to master these two completely diametrically opposed ways of playing football and and that's one thing that's very different this year is they've gotten better of of having the periods of time when they have to suffer but they also said that this is they're so good at focusing on the process and not on the outcome so when they beat atlastico madrid incredible results but they were saying in interviews one of the players said in an interview after you've had this incredible experience and said yeah we won but we did end up like being pushed quite far back and we ended up being quite deep and this isn't really how we wanted to play this game it's like what are you talking about you've you've just beaten atletico madrid away from home but they are laser focused on the on the performance on the process because they believe that if you get that right i'm going to pick you up on the word laser actually um because it's oh yeah see the connection how important is bjorn mansvirk is that how you say his name in terms of yeah in terms of and the word laser relevant because he was a fighter pilot right yeah i mean there's just really not that many teams in the Champions League who have a member of the coaching staff who has like actually dropped bombs on Gaddafi's forces during the sort of intervention in Libya.

23:40That's not entirely common, I guess. I think it's very important not being in the dressing room. I don't have firsthand knowledge. But again, I am so impressed by the mentality they show, the way they're not phased by these big occasions, the way Boudou Limp are able to keep their heads, are able to not freak out is is really that's what bjorn bjorn was brought in to hone that mental focus yeah and that's something that they they do absolutely incredibly well they do a lot of like they do a lot of meditation and things like this they and working on mindfulness and stuff they're they're out of the box thinkers i i believe pre-match huddles have been a big topic in britain over the weekend you you will find they they like a huddle border glimps and you might see that if let's say they concede very early let's say they concede maybe once or twice and everything is going wrong you might see the players do a huddle just to like have a chat about what's going on and let's get they're quite i think they're they have a captaincy group they have a revolving captaincy thing so they're encouraged to have many leaders in the group and take responsibility themselves on the field which is something the coach encourages i think it's very humble and good of him so that's a big part of their success as well what i find interesting as well is what happens next with them and how vulnerable they are to bigger european clubs to come you know hovering and and picking off their best talent but you balance that don't you Lars with as you said you know a couple of these players have gone elsewhere tried it and come back they strike me as not necessarily a group or even a coach who will necessarily think the grass is greener elsewhere yeah that's such an interesting point in all of this and I genuinely wonder what the scouting fraternity make of this and what the recruitment guys around Europe make of this because you have a lot of guys who you think okay they've done well in Norway but then they went abroad and it didn't work and they went back that would usually be a pretty big red flag but then they go out and like trounce various giant European teams and then you say what exactly do you make of that it's gonna but but you look at the most eye-catching players maybe Jens-Petter has had a career abroad but I think in his stints at Milan and at Frankfurt you definitely saw glimpses even then that he is very very talented and could and probably should be playing in a bigger league it's interesting someone like patrick bagg the midfield general who's a third generation bode glim player both his father and grandfather played for the club had a short stint with lance in france didn't seem to settle at all and came back he is someone again based on his performances for glimt and for the national team really should be of interest for a bigger league but i do wonder if again when the club is in a position to pay them pretty decent salaries by scandinavian standards um even though it's nothing compared to what they get in england for instance but still it's a good living and you're able to have these unbelievable experiences in Europe, maybe you'd be a little bit tempted to do what the Rosenborg players did in the 90s.

26:30We had a Rosenborg team from Trondheim who were competitive in the Champions League almost every year and the core of that group remained very similar for a long period of time. Can you tell us a little bit about what life is like in Bodo? So you've got a population of 54 ,000. You could fit them inside some of the big stadiums, the Etihad, for example, in the UK. you could put the whole city there. What do they do for a living? What are people doing when they're not donning yellow and cheering for their football team? I mean, it's an incredibly beautiful place, I think is worth pointing out as well.

27:01And it's one of those things where you're going to have a lot of weather that's unpleasant, but then you probably appreciate it even more when it's nice. And of course, you have no sunshine, really, to speak of in the winter, but then you have a lot of sunshine in the summer. So like an hour or two, what's the daylight? We have the polar night. I mean, we're inside the polar circuit. So in the mid-dead of winter, there is no sunshine. The sun doesn't come up. You're inside the Arctic Circle. That's how that works. But in the summer, you also have this just night. It's just bright all the time.

27:30So it's a bit of a head scratcher from that perspective. There's a fishing community, of course. And it's a commercial centre for the region, in a sense. It's just a small one compared to what you guys are used to, I guess. I'm desperate to go sometime in the future. I don't think it's going to be next season, sadly, because I don't think they're in the Champions League. But you never know. I might get to cover them on telly sometime. There is one thing for a British audience is worth saying. If one of the secrets, I think, behind the success this season, it is actually all thanks to Tottenham, just not in a way you might expect.

28:00Because you might remember last year, they came up very short in the Europa League games against Tottenham. They were not themselves in those games, which was sad for me, really. I did quite a few of these interviews ahead of that game, and then they weren't that good, which I thought was unfortunate because they weren't able to show what I've seen them do so many times. But they were shocked in that game by how physical Spurs were. Because say what you want about Tottenham, but if you look through the lineup they had against Bordecai, there's a lot of dudes who are like six foot something and full of muscles.

28:28And they just couldn't get near them in the challenges. They were really struggling physically. And it actually made them rethink how they train. They changed their whole thing about how they prepare physically and how they train based on how much they struggled against Spurs in the Europa League. They even contacted the club. I actually wasn't aware of this. I read this now in the Norwegian press before the sporting game. They got in touch with Tottenham to ask them and to learn more about how they prepare physically because they were like, you guys are so much stronger than us. What's going on?

28:57And they were apparently told by Spurs, no, we buy physique. I guess this is what's the transfer market. You get it off the shelf. On current evidence, Lars, I think Tottenham might be back in touch with Bogo at the moment. Possibly they bought too much physique, but I guess that's the difference. When you make the kind of television money that you do in the Premier League, then if you want strong players, you buy them. Whereas if you're a team from Norway, what they've done is they've added a lot more strength work to their whole schedule. Thank you so much, Lars. It's been fascinating chatting to you.

29:24Fascinating. Thank you. Thank you. The Sports Agents.

29:30The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.