Will 17 MINUTES define Kinsky & Tudor at Spurs?

0:02Brad Friedel:This is a Global Player Original Podcast. Well, it was an interesting Champions League round of 16 for goalies. Let's put it like that. Jorgensen's mistake started Chelsea's collapse to PSG. Donnarumma's penalty save might just have kept Manchester City in it. And of course, there was a disaster for Spurs. 17 minutes was all it took for Igor Tudor to sub off Antonín Kinský on his Champions League debut after two big slip-ups, quite literally, and three goals conceded. No, it's happened very rare. I'm coaching 15 years, I never do this thing. It was necessary to preserve the guy, preserve the team.

0:39Incredible situation. Well, subbing a keeper is pretty much unheard of. So was Tudor right to make the change? Or with Spurs fans serenading Pochettino on a plane, is it off with his head? Former Spurs keeper Brad Friedel joins us to discuss that. And later, just 12 days before the start of the women's AFCON, it's been postponed. And the only reason given? Unforeseen circumstances. Welcome to The Sports Agents.

1:12The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Hello, just me today. Mark's at Cheltenham, and he's promised me he hasn't gone to Benidorm to watch it, but I think I'd like some photographic proof. Our man, Jack Draper, an update on him. Now, as you know, if you listen to the podcast, he is our man, in spite of the fact he's never been on. And hopefully if we keep calling him that, one day he will. But we've always got our eye over Jack's progress. And for a while it's been stalling because of injury. But he beat Novak Djokovic for the first time in Indian Wells in the fourth round. It's only the sixth match that he's played since coming back from an arm injury.

1:48And of course, he is the defending champion, Draper. So what a way to kind of announce that you're back after injury, taking on and beating the 24-time Grand Slam champion. And he will play at Daniil Medvedev tonight. So we'll be keeping our eye all over that. Now, before we get into the Champions League, remember you can catch up on previous episodes on YouTube, Global Player, or wherever you get your podcasts. And make sure you subscribe or follow and leave a review. and do get in touch on socials at the sports agents or email the sports agents at global.com. So after an almost farcical couple of nights for some goalkeepers in the Champions League, we're going to chat to former Tottenham, Liverpool and Aston Villa goalkeeper Brad Friedel next.

2:29The Sports Agents. Brad Friedel, welcome to the Sports Agents. I know you're in the Bahamas. There's probably swimming to be done, maybe some fishing, maybe playing paddle. I don't know. I don't know what takes your days up these days. Brad, I know you've got a family to look after out there. And actually, well, before we get to goalkeepers, I remember when I knew you through Barry Venison. And I remember a very funny story about Barry calling you up one day and asking you what you were doing. And you said it's Brad Friedel Day. And he thought that was self-care. And actually where you were living, they had a Brad Friedel Day, a day when people didn't have to go to work.

3:03So does Brad Friedel Day still happen as a kind of holiday?

3:08Brad Friedel:I mean, I'm from a small, we'll put it in perspective. I'm from a small town in Cleveland, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland. And I'm sure it still exists. Like, I don't know if you nominated or if it was just a one-off. I'm not sure. You don't have to go back every year. No, no. My mom's coming out on Saturday to Bahamas. So I'll ask if that's still something. But yeah, that was definitely a thing. That was one of my favorite little anecdotes about a kind of a mix-up. Yeah, I'm having a Gabby Logan day today. No, no, no, no. This is a thing. It's been a crazy week in the round of 16 in the Champions League for goalkeepers, particularly the English teams.

3:48I mean, I don't think any of us have seen anything quite like what happened on Tuesday night. Did you watch that live? And when Kingsky was hooked on 17 minutes? Well, first of all, the first 15 minutes and the three goals. Talk us through your reaction to those.

4:04Brad Friedel:Well, the second goal is a slip by Van der Ben. Everyone was slipping. Yeah, and you could say, you know, maybe he went a little bit too early to his right-hand side. You know, that's more of a technical situation, but a little bit less on him. First one is just unlucky. You know, I've been there. You know, you put your foot down, you go to strike a ball and you slip. Or you go to move one way and you slip. There's not a lot you can do about that. The third one, I think maybe, you know, he probably felt at blame for the first goal. than straight after a second one goes in. I'm sure he's had a couple of teammates chirping at him, which is normal.

4:42Brad Friedel:You know, nothing that hasn't happened in any other football match. But I'm sure, you know, this is the second start of the season. Atletico Madrid, Vicario's been dropped. The team hasn't won in the Premier League for six, or they lost six straight, I think, the first time for a long time. Ever. You know, and everything just keeps mounting on top of them. then the third goal i think is the is the real killer for confidence a goalkeeper psychology here taking them off is brutal like i i don't feel sorry for many footballers you know anything happens you deal with it it's a game you go on to the next you get to the training ground go on to the next 17 minutes that's a killer if you make the choice to drop your number one and you bring in your number two you you have to back them that's that's how it is you're not only risking that goalkeeper so Kinski having a real difficult time now but you've already dropped your number one so he's going to be who's been having a real difficult time all season you now have two goal keepers with depleted confidence probably two goal keepers that aren't happy with you as the head coach could you bring in the number three could you bring in the number four that you know then you're really you know getting into uncharted territories go you know going into the huge, huge Champions League fixtures and Premier League fixtures, you could at least wait to halftime.

6:04Brad Friedel:And, you know, I've heard a lot of people talk about the, you know, the compassion or lack of that Tudor had when he was coming off. At least at halftime, you could have some. And you could bring him into the separate office for five minutes and just say, this is what we're going to do. I believe in you. But 17 minutes, Gabby, that's a killer. Yeah, because you make a good point. Because at halftime, he could say, this is for you. and you know I just feel this is the best way you know and manage it in a in a much more compassionate way I mean Paulina put his arm around him didn't he and I think there was a welfare officer who put his arm around him as he went down the tunnel but it was the manager's Alan Dixon did yeah and the manager didn't even glance over did he he didn't even acknowledge in his peripheral vision that he existed and Peter Schmeichel on the night said this has killed his career now Antonin came back and did a post on Instagram yesterday and said dreams it was like dreams to disaster to dreams, basically.

6:56Dream to nightmare to dream. And he's obviously showing, you know, I'm okay, I'll come back from this. Can he come back?

7:03Brad Friedel:When you get to Premier League level, every goalkeeper can shot stop. Every goalkeeper can collect crosses. Every goalkeeper, you know, some are better than others. But you have a good technical ability to be a number one, two or three goalkeeper at Premier League level. That's a fact. What separates the real top ones are two things, consistency and then how you recover from mistake or how you recover from criticism from your teammates, from the fans, et cetera. And it takes a mental strength to do that. So the top ones over the years are the ones that are able to bounce back really quickly from a mistake.

7:39Brad Friedel:You know, this is why when David De Gea, for instance, I have a lot of respect for him because at 20, 21 years of age, he was having a real difficult time at Man United, which was the biggest club at the time. And he was taken abuse from a lot of pundits etc etc and he came out of it do i think kinski can come out of this yes yeah i do do i think it's at tottenham no i i think this this is a big a big hit um one that's really difficult to recover from i think him going on loan or going to another club i think he can resurrect his career for sure but um the the confidence levels for goalkeepers life are are hugely important.

8:20Brad Friedel:And I'll take an example from my own career. One of my worst mistakes I ever made in my career was at home. I was playing for Blackburn against Arsenal. And sometimes you get lucky in games when your mistakes don't count against you. Or in that particular game, Jens Lehmann made a worse mistake than me in the game. We ended up drawing 1-1. So he got to the brunt of it. Yeah, off of me. And my mistake was terrible. It's one that you can't even go and recreate on the training ground. But people were talking about, it was David Bentley took a shot that went right through his hands. So it was an ex-Arsenal player who was now in the England squad scoring against a teammate that he actually had a tiff with while he was at Arsenal.

9:08Brad Friedel:That became the story. And I just kind of went off and nobody really talked about it. You know, nobody was like, hey, by the way, Brad made an awful mistake as well. So sometimes you get lucky with these mistakes and it doesn't carry on with you. There is no way that this isn't, we're talking again a couple of days later, this is no way, this is going away that quickly. So I don't know if Tudor, when he was brought in, was brought in and somebody on the board level said, you have to come in with an iron fist, you have to do this, you have to do that. because he came in when players were really low on confidence.

9:45Brad Friedel:The things that he said in the media have made them lower on confidence. Now if you take a specialist position in goalkeeping, you've basically lowered the confidence of your one and two. It's quite remarkable. So he's had four matches. He's lost four matches. He's played four totally different defences in those matches as well, sometimes playing three at the back, sometimes playing four at the back. So there is no consistency there for a goalkeeper. And I know you've all got to adapt and that's part of... But when you've got low confidence, no consistency, players now look like they don't want to play for him.

10:22I mean, these are good players, some very good players in there. Is it with the next 10 games... Liverpool away. Liverpool away. Really, should they just be going, OK, this is it now. I'm sorry, but time's up. You've had four games. Off you go. Let's go get Sean Dyche.

10:36Brad Friedel:I mean I'm not a big proponent of I'm being a bit facetious I don't know who they would get That's the problem isn't it Because there isn't a modern day Sam Allardyce No and I'm not a big proponent of Fire and higher and fire and higher But when Thomas Frank went I was one of the people I know many other people mentioned it too But somebody like a Harry Redknapp type figure Was needed at that time Whether it was Harry But somebody like him Just like the Celtic did by bringing Martin O 'Neill back. And I played for both Harry and Martin. They simplify things. They put responsibility onto the players.

11:15Brad Friedel:They don't bring added pressure onto the players, but they don't bring added pressure onto themselves. They know how to talk to the media. They know how to give a message to the fans. They know what to keep inside the changing room, inside the training ground, and what to air outside. Very simple, simple things. It's not going to be this tactical masterclass. It's not going to be these incredible team meetings that are going to mesmerize the players. It's going to be simple. And they will boost the confidence of some players. Some players will sink for sure with somebody like that. But in my opinion, that's what they need.

11:52Brad Friedel:I mean, but can the club really fire another head coach right now? I mean, maybe the fans... Nottingham Forest have done it this season, haven't they? Yeah, but that's a different type of owner. I mean, they fired coaches when they shouldn't be fired. You go from the sublime with the ridiculous, they're on the ridiculous side of things. This is not a Daniel Levy Tottenham, Gabby. And I saw the signs of that last year. And then when he was forced out, you see it. Daniel would never, people could say what they want about Daniel. And people could, and the fans put a lot of pressure on him. There's no way something like this would have happened on his watch.

12:30Brad Friedel:There's no way that a team that brings in 560 million some odd in revenue would be in relegation fight if Daniel had his full power at the club. And it's a case you think of be careful what you wish for then in terms of, as you alluded to there, those who called for his departure. It is. Now, I can understand the frustrations with Daniel because was he the one that was going to really risk it? He's more conservative on the spending. Would he really risk it to win the Premier League? Probably not. However, would you be in the top six? Yeah, you would. So it depends on what you want. Do you want to roll the dice and appear like you're going for it and now find yourself in a relegation battle?

13:17Brad Friedel:Or would you rather be in the Europa League for certain and possibly a Champions League? It's nearly 50 years since Spurs were last in the old second division. It feels unthinkable. Anybody can drop down, but it's that stadium, as you point to, the revenue and the money spent. And it would certainly be one of the biggest, if not the biggest relegation in Premier League history in terms of a club that has been, first of all, winning a European trophy the season before and has been knocking on the door of those European places. Liverpool away and then they play Forest. They can find themselves in the bottom three very quickly.

13:59Brad Friedel:The biggest problem that I see at the club with that is they have purchased players and brought players in on loan thinking about Champions League, Champions League type mentality. Players fighting off relegation is a different mentality. It's a different pressure. There'll be players, Satayka Romero and Vandeven, you know, you come from clubs and countries that are lifting trophies. fighting against relegation is something that they wouldn't think they would ever have to do in their career. You know, there's probably only one player at the club that I know that's like really suited for a relegation battle because he's just been in English football so long, and that's probably Ben Davies.

14:43Brad Friedel:Everybody else is, you know, thinks about the traveling in the private jet and traveling first class and incredible hotels and, and, and rightly so, by the way I'm not saying they're not good players but um they're used to great stadiums and full stadiums and incredible pitches and you know where who's who am I going to sign for am I going to sign for Liverpool or Tottenham or Bayern Dominic Solanke Dominic Solanke would have had experience at Bournemouth and Richarlison at Everton maybe could they score some big goals they could Solanke yeah you're right Ben Davies and Solanke I wouldn't put Richarlison in that like going like on really understanding because even when he was at everton he didn't think he should be at everton no i i wouldn't put him in that category i think he thinks more that he's a brazil player and he he should be in the champions league squad um solonka yes you're you're absolutely correct um but the mentality of fighting off relegation is different you know and your fans think about you go into a game and if you're sitting in sixth position your fans will give you 15, 20 minutes.

15:45Brad Friedel:If you're, you know, if you're really not at it, they might give you a little bit of grief, but you're still in sixth position fighting for fifth, you know, maybe you lose and you go down to seventh. They might grumble a little bit and put Banner up with Levy out and on they go. When you're sitting in 17th and West Ham's winning and you're losing after a minute and you see yourself in the updated table and you're in the bottom three, the fans are not going to put up with even one sideways pass. It's a completely different pressure and a completely different aura around the place. And I'm not sure if they have the players suited to deal with that pressure.

16:20I think they're used to the so-called bigger games and the

16:24Brad Friedel:nicer football games. This is like the horrible, ugly side of football. Well, we're seeing that fight from Forrest, I feel, at the moment of all the teams down there. They, as you say, have got at least a handful of players that really are equipped for that kind of fight and maybe even more. There's a couple more Spurs issues I want to talk to you about before we get on to a couple of other goalkeeping issues from this week in the Champions League. And the fans chanting Pochettino's name on the flights on the way out there, they're almost kind of hanging out for the end of the World Cup, thinking he's going to come back.

16:55But that's a longer term. I mean, long term, it's only a few months. But in terms of Spurs' future, whether that would happen, Ange Postacoglu was on TNT the night after Parc de Prance, and he was in Parc de Prance, sorry, talking about Spurs, saying he still as a connection to the players. Does that sound to you like he's in touch with the players? I mean, would they bring him back in the short term? He managed to get them over the line for a trophy.

17:20Brad Friedel:I mean, Gabby, when Daniel was running things, I knew how he operated so I could give you far more educated guess on which way they would go. I know Mauricio quite well and Mauricio is incredibly smart. And first of all, he'll be completely focused on the World Cup this summer. or that's how he will operate. He's not going to have one eye on something else. He'll be all in with regards to that. It would almost be like a re-interview process, but more like Mauricio interviewing them. Are they the right board for him? He's not going to put himself into a situation that is just impossible to take the club forward.

18:01Brad Friedel:I'm not saying that that would be the case. Maybe he would interview or talk to the board and he would like what he sees and think that he can turn things around. These are all if they stay in the Premier League. I mean, I don't know if Anz would take them in the championship. I can 99.9 % assure you that Mauricio wouldn't. I couldn't see that. They have their work cut out for them just to stay in the league. And if they go up to Anfield and lose three, four, or five, what do they do? bring, I mean, Ryan Mason's available, bring him back as an interim and try to get, get them over the lines and save them?

18:42Brad Friedel:Or do they bring in somebody like a Harry? Cause there's not going to be a lot out there for long-term replacements right now. Okay. Let's go back to goalkeeping very briefly. So Jorgensen, of course, for Chelsea had a couple of moments, didn't he? A couple of, I mean, were they howlers? You know, as you talked earlier on in the podcast about mistakes that goalkeepers make, it did cost Chelsea. And ultimately it's cost them the tie because at two all that looked such an enticing proposition next week for Chelsea to bring them back to the bridge. 5-2, it's gone. Yeah, even down 3-2. You know, you can potentially claw it back.

19:15Brad Friedel:That's the life of a goalkeeper. You know, the big difference is that he played the game and he lasted the game, you know, and then they could, it was just a bad, unfortunate couple of moments. I mean, that happens. But you can deal with all that stuff internally. With Kinski, it was completely different. That's out in need. They've had Sanchez obviously in for part of the season and Jorgensen now seems to have been anointed as number one. You know, there's still, and then you kind of always wonder, don't you, with a club like Chelsea, because the money they spend and the turnover of players, how long anybody gets really to settle into that position.

19:56Brad Friedel:Well, the way that I look at that is that they're not fully sold on Sanchez. because they see Jorgensen every day in training and they like what they see, but they're not sure about him fully being the long term. So let's give him some time now to the end of the season and see if we have to go again. That's how I view this. I mean, if they've said now that he's going to be the number one, even if he makes a couple of mistakes, I think you've got to keep him in and continue to see what he can do. because we said at the top of the program, the best way to know about the mentality of your goalkeeper is how they perform after they make an error or two.

20:34Brad Friedel:That's the best time. It's easy to be a goalkeeper when everything's brilliant. And now we could have a moment on Donnarumma because he had a couple of flappy moments, didn't he, in reaching for the first goal. But Valverde was so incredible for Real Madrid. I don't think we should focus too much on that. I think instead we should finish with some flowers for Courtois and not for his goalkeeping in terms of his saves, but in terms of his assist for Valverde, which is the ultimate playing out from the back. Yeah, and these are two highly experienced goalkeepers. And Donnarumma was on the stage at, what, 16 years of age, playing high-level competition with Milan.

21:15Brad Friedel:Courtois has been one of the best. I get asked all the time, can you rank goalkeepers top five, top ten? And, you know, Courtois is always in the list. That's so funny because last night I was chatting to Stephen and Edmund Neuer about, Stephen Warnock, about, you know, favorite goalkeepers. And apparently Joe Hart regularly says Thibaut Courtois is his favorite goalkeeper. Is he the goalkeeper's goalkeeper? He's on, for me, it's Alisson. That's who I like. Biased. The best. But, well, yeah, biased Liverpool and everything. No, but I think he's brilliant. But Courtois, like if somebody said, well, I like Courtois or I like Peter Cech, then yeah, I get it.

21:54Brad Friedel:You know, there's not much of a there's not much of a comeback. I would say, oh, you can't. No way. Allison does this. And like it just becomes when these guys, it just becomes a. Yeah, it's personal. What are your preferences? Yeah, correct. They're all they're all excellent. But that assist, have you ever done anything like that or try to execute that? If I was to get an assist, it was mainly from throwing. I had an extraordinarily long throw. I could be quite accurate with that. I played in the very first game with the FIFA registry game where you couldn't pick the ball up with your hands, Gabby.

22:32Brad Friedel:So you just tell my age. So there's certain things that I would and wouldn't attempt. Well, you did many, many things very, very well indeed, Brad Friedel, which is why they named a day after you. And this will be known as the Brad Friedel episode, just so you know, on the sports agents. Just the one though. Well, it's the best one so far that we've done with you, but hopefully there'll be another one. Brad, it's been really good to discuss goalkeepers in particular with you and also the future of Spurs in the Premier League this season. I think it's one of those, you know, obviously it would be the unbelievably worst case scenario, wouldn't it, for Spurs fans to go down if Arsenal win the Premier League and maybe something else as well.

23:13I mean, that scenario just doesn't bear thinking for Spurs fans.

23:16Brad Friedel:No, I mean, let's hope they stay up and then they can regroup in the summer. It's just, it is absolutely remarkable to see where they're at at this moment in time. It really is. Have you got equal soft spots for those three Premier League teams you were synonymous with? Well, I grew up supporting Liverpool. So Liverpool's was my, yeah, they're my number one. But I was also really fortunate. I had a great time at Villa. I had a great time at Blackburn and Tottenham. And actually Galatasaray as well. Brad thank you so so much we hope we can speak to you soon maybe I didn't even get a chance to dip into your thoughts ahead of the World Cup with your American hat on but we can do that some other time maybe take care anytime well after the news that the women's AFCON has been postponed 12 days out from its start we spoke to the Guardian's African football specialist Osasu Abayuana The Sports Agents