Will US-Iran conflict derail Trump's World Cup?

0:02This is a Global Player original podcast.

0:05Gabby:War in the Middle East has cast a new shadow over the World Cup this summer. This is a human tragedy first and foremost, but questions are now being asked about the impact on the world's most watched sporting event. When the president of the co-host of the tournament orders the removal of the head of state of a team in Group C, what on earth is meant to happen? Will the World Cup be safe for fans? Will Iran pull out of the tournament? And is Gianni Infantino regretting his bromance with President Trump? Welcome to The Sports Agents.

0:45Gabby:The Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman. Hello, Mark. Hi, Gabby. How are you? Oh, you know, I think like everybody else, it feels like we're living in these kind of parallel worlds, aren't we? Especially when you're immersed in sport and the joy and the controversy and the passion that that can deliver on the one hand. And then this existential threat that seems to be increasing around the world. I think, you know, everybody is finding the last few days tough to kind of navigate, I think. Yes. And then I think we fall back on the number of times I must have said this during COVID when we were doing sports programs during COVID.

1:24Gabby:You know, sport is the most important of the unimportant things. And so that kind of always felt like, well, so this is why we're doing a sport program. Like this was during COVID. This is why we're doing a sport program. Recognize everything else is going on, but the sport, people still want the sport in their life. The two worlds collide today, don't they? Because we are going to look at the impact of what is going on in the Middle East on the World Cup. But a few joyous little things first. And Daniel Farker, his coming out in his press conference yesterday and explaining what happened at the end of that City game when he got his red card.

2:00Gabby:And his beautiful kind of, he's got this beautiful, soft, quite high pitched voice. He has. describing himself as not being a butterfly while sounding more like a butterfly than any other manager probably does. And say he was an ugly jogger, which is why he potentially got the red card. I look probably quite aggressive when I'm jogging. And it was just all such a lovely kind of insight into his personality. Let's hear the clip. We can hear the clip. I was running over because I wanted to ask him why he didn't add a few seconds, at least 30 seconds or one minute at a time, if he gives the yellow card for time.

2:36I learned my lesson. I will never ever jog again on the pitch, although I don't think you could be shown a red card for jogging. I'm not light like a butterfly. I don't look unbelievably cute and sweet when I jog. I have to admit this. So for that, the lesson that I learned, I will never ever jog on the pitch again. So I will try to be as slow as I was as a player from now on on the pitch and don't jog anymore.

3:01Gabby:I have to say, I do really, really like him. He all, I just, I mean, maybe he didn't to the referee at that particular moment when he got the red card. And I know that Leeds fans have had an interesting relationship with him, certainly in the first few months of this season, where they think they thought he was a little bit inflexible, that his substitutions were always pre-planned. But I really like him. I really like him. And actually what he's done at Leeds, and defied quite a lot of predictions, and you've got the other thing Gabby I mean you know this football club well his job was under threat it felt like from the moment he was promoted there was talk about they might get rid of him before they even start the season and when he was at Norwich he never managed to keep Norwich in the Premier League I think he's I think he's done he's done a great job there and he you know it is a club Leeds that has a reputation doesn't it with its fans you know they can be quite I mean they were against Man City weren't they?

4:00Gabby:What they were calling Pep Guardiola and he referenced that as well. They can be quite out there and they've got a few enemies, frenemies around the leagues they like to have their rivalries with and I think there's a juxtaposition with him that helps them. Do you know what I mean? He doesn't kind of mirror the fans but they've had to almost kind of moderate themselves to kind of accommodate him and I quite like the marriage. It works. It's a yin and yang relationship. I was talking to a couple of friends last week who most definitely don't support Leeds and support different clubs. And they were both quite bashful, I think, when we were talking about the Premier League.

4:41Gabby:They were both like, we actually quite like Leeds this season. We don't want to. And Leeds have historically been, if you go all the way back to the dirty Leeds areas, historically Leeds have always had it passed down from generation to generation that you don't like Leeds. Certainly in certain parts of the game, you don't like Leeds. And they've relished that, I think, as well. But a lot of people I find this season, I don't know, quite like Leeds. I mean, I was thinking after 1-0 to City at Elland Road and it took them to the very last minute of the first half to get the goal and it was a well-worked goal.

5:16Gabby:But until that point, Leeds have been really kind of at them and Dominic Calvert-Lewin had a few good chances in the first half. They play some really exciting football. Dominic Calvert-Lewin's really kind of taken off for them and that was always at the beginning of the season. Is he going to kind of succumb to injury? Is he going to be able to, you know, go the distance for them? And I don't know, I think maybe Arsenal probably would have won there, but I don't know if anybody else could have got past them on Saturday. You know, I think it took the kind of wiliness of City, didn't it? And they're, you know, they had to really dog it out in the end as well, you know, and their game management and their title race credentials, I think, really came through from that performance.

5:51Gabby:But yeah, they've been very impressive, I think, this season. The other big football story is, of course, that Adama Traore has been banned from lifting weights. Well, you know what this is like. Well, I was going to say, I mean, ever since I started Match the Day 2, 15 years ago, they've banned me. They've banned me from lifting weights so that I don't intimidate the pundits. Micah, particularly. Micah. All of them, basically. Just Joe, Joe Hart, you know. We don't want you looking pumped. More buff. And also, if you could leave the baby oil alone as well, they say. So I go, OK, fine. But the interesting thing with this Traore thing, he's always maintained that this is natural strength, hasn't he?

6:30Gabby:Well, again, we're very similar. And that he doesn't actually pump any kind of iron and he doesn't do weight. So Nuno has kind of, you know, let the cat out the bag that we all thought we knew. It's a bit like those women, you know, who kind of go, oh, gosh, no, I'm just like this naturally, you know. And they're surviving on, you know, kind of subnormal levels of calories and they're going to the gym for three hours a day. and then I don't go to the gym. It's that kind of thing, isn't it? I think it's just me. It's just how I am. And we're going to talk about the Men's Football World Cup in a little while.

7:03Gabby:And whilst there aren't comparisons, in some ways there are slight comparisons here because cricket and all of its World Cups over many years recently have had to deal with political fallout. And so, you know, we're reaching the culmination now of another Men's T20 World Cup, which again has been dominated by whether a team has pulled out. In the case of Bangladesh, teams not being able to play, India and Pakistan really, agreeing to not play in each other's countries when they're hosting tournaments. So cricket has already for many years had to navigate this very strained political landscape, which I'll be interested when we talk to Barney Roney, because he's big on his cricket, if he thinks football can follow a similar path.

7:50Gabby:It's a bit more difficult with the World Cup with it being pre-drawn, isn't it, I suppose? It is. Yeah. And one of the, again, Barney will probably give us a heads up as to kind of whether this is feasible. One of the ideas that was being mooted, I heard this morning, was that, you know, that group, Group C, just has three teams in it. But then you look at like, well, that's not fair to the rest of the tournament, for one. And for two, you've got ticket sales. And then you look at the teams that are going to replace them, potentially, that could come up from, you know, They're all from the region that we are all focusing on in the rest of the world.

8:23Gabby:And right now, looking at as, you know, we don't know, do we? It's a boiling point of aggression and, you know, action that could go any which way. And that's, you know, I don't think Barney's going to have the answer to that. But we could be thinking this is a dimmer, distant memory by June the 11th, or it could be right in the heart of it, couldn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. As always, remember, you can catch up with previous episodes on YouTube, Global Player, wherever you get your podcasts. And remember to subscribe or follow and leave a review. And do get in touch on socials at the sports agents or email the sports agents at global.com.

8:56Gabby:And next, the Guardian's chief sports reporter, Barney Rone will join us to talk everything about the Men's World Cup. The Sports Agents.

9:07Gabby:It's sports greatest soap opera. And we've got your VIP pass to all the drama. This is Up To Speed, your new Formula One podcast with me, Will Buxton, David Coulthard, Naomi Schiff and Jolie Sharp. Expect unfiltered race reactions, behind-the-scenes insight and blockbuster interviews. Plus answers to the questions you've always wanted to ask. Like, do F1 drivers pass their driving test first time? Spoiler, they don't. When the race weekend's over, we're here to keep you up to speed. Listen and watch today. Search Up to Speed on Global Player. Up to Speed.

9:51the sports agents with gabby logan and mark chapman

9:56Gabby:barney thank you very much for joining us on on what may be a kind of impossible interview for all of us really because nobody knows what's going to happen really so we're sort of trying to predict aren't we yeah that's true i mean if we're if we're saying will iran play at the world Cup. That's very hard to predict, although my guess right now would be 95 % no. If we're asking, will Donald Trump attempt to leverage the World Cup as a propaganda tool during a grotesque four weeks in the summer, then I think the answer is probably 100 % yes. In terms of will Iran play, who decides whether Iran play?

10:39Gabby:Will Iran, do you think, ultimately decide that they don't come? Will FIFA get involved? Or, you know, is there something that kind of will ramp up and go into action that is in the FIFA jurisdiction that means they can't? Do you know what I mean? I suppose there are three people who can decide that. Iran's Football Association slash government, which is essentially the same organism. FIFA could decide this is not appropriate for a World Cup. and the United States could decide to ban Iran's players and football association as they have banned Iranian fans from travelling. So, you know, those are the only people who have an exception to the Iranian travel ban in the States at the moment.

11:21I think the most likely person to make this call is probably the Iranian FA, who have already spoken about it and in very pessimistic terms, saying we cannot look forward to the World Cup with any joy, which sounds kind of ominous and also true.

11:36Gabby:And the other thing, I don't know whether you did, Barney, Iranian games at the previous World Cup in Qatar, but they were quite emotional games to be at, I found. And I think, Gabby, did you do the Wales game? I was at that Wales game as well. That was a very emotional day from the Iranian side of things. I obviously I say that just as a as a as a white European but even being in that stadium it was a sight to behold that day yeah I mean and it's a really complex dynamic there because the Iranian players to some degree in Qatar were using the World Cup to express some of the unhappiness with the regime.

12:28Now, I mean, I am not an expert on Iranian politics, but I am aware that one of the extraordinary reasons about Iran even being involved in the World Cup, it has been said, is that Iran is accused of killing tens of thousands of protesters on its own streets who have protested against the regime. It's also accused of killing footballers as part of that process and for an organization that promotes football it seems doubly strange that FIFA has no voice on this or opinion. Everything is obviously incredibly nuanced in a country such as this which is a theocratic state and a very repressive state.

13:10Lots of people are not happy with the regime. Sport is the one place where there is an international kind of megaphone to the world in a sense and it was a very fraught business in Qatar and I am aware that there were there were consequences for those players it's a very difficult business for them to take part

13:31Gabby:in international sport their women have played South Korea over the last 24 hours and have elected not to sing the anthem as a form of protest what happens to those women how much should we worry about their athletes and their sports people? We should worry a great deal about them. That's an incredibly brave thing to do. We talk about anthems a lot in this country. I mean, anthems become something silly associated with football. But to, as an Iranian woman, to refuse to sing your country's anthem on the global stage, that's a revolutionary act. And, you know, that will be something that they've had to really, really think about and think about the consequences.

14:12and the world I hope is watching although what the world can actually do about this given the world is already bombing Iran and has decapitated its regime that's an amazing piece of sporting protest and you know I think that obviously they should be listened to applauded and supported but

14:32Gabby:you would fear for them I was talking to Gabby before you came on about the cricket situation in cricket at the moment which has been more and more politicized over the last decade or so hasn't it barney and you've been on this podcast many times to talk about cricket and they always i think what is best way to describe it fudge their way through tournaments with with india and pakistan and latterly bangladesh not not playing in this one i'm not sure football can fudge it in the same way particularly as this is is already pre-drawn no uh and the thing with cricket is you have one dominant power that generates 95 % of the revenue, whatever the actual figure is, and also controls the ICC.

15:17So basically what India says goes and everybody falls into lockstep. The only interesting thing about the recent T20 World Cup is that Pakistan have won card in their armoury, which is we will refuse to play you because we're not happy about the way it's being presented or our relation with you and that actually is a massive financial hit um to Indian cricket as well as everybody else um and and they they managed to have some kind of leverage with but I would say this is completely different I mean it's really extraordinary to talk about sport in the context of what is essentially what feels like a kind of domino effect global conflict and sport sports in its bubble it always likes to you know promote its own importance but the fact is, you know, football shouldn't be here, but it is because it has insisted on being there.

16:04You know, Gianni Infantino has dragged us into this room, has said, I will align myself so closely with the President Donald Trump, not even the country, but one specific divisive political movement in that country. The football has been forced to become part of his publicity machine. And I, you know, I wrote an article overnight in The Guardian suggesting that because of Infantino's actions, football also has blood on its hands in this because it has been forced into the room and is part of his machine.

16:32Gabby:Barney, are we all complicit then? If everybody who supports a World Cup that is being staged in a country, 75 % of it staged in a country, whose president has, you know, autonomously almost, you know, waged war on another country that is in that World Cup, are we all part of this? If we go ahead and support this World Cup? Well, it's a really difficult question, isn't it? And I always instinctively reject the idea of a boycott, because otherwise you're just closing the space, you're not there. It's much better to be present saying, this is a propaganda story, to be in Qatar reporting on the deaths, to be pointing out you're being manipulated by a regime, than to abandon the stage to the influencers and in-house media who will otherwise be the only broadcasters.

17:17And that's what FIFA is actually doing at the coming World Cup. They've got an enormous office in Florida, which is going to be staffed full of people who do in-house YouTube videos. And I think FIFA would be quite happy if people who object to the way this tournament is being staged decided not to turn up because you're just one voice in that space. So in a sense, I can't really see the point of abandoning the show. The show will go on, but nobody will be saying you are being manipulated here and this is the downside and this is the problem with this. but as you point out uh the product itself has no meaning if nobody's paying any attention and the project of weaponizing it as a propaganda tool fails i just don't think that's going to happen people are obsessed with football and that's why it's the only thing that has global cut through in this way that's why people buy premier league teams there's still a kind of plan among the u.s sort of hedge fund owners to turn it into the next tech platform because football's the only thing that will speak to people in every continent and and that they they can sort of go after the zuckerberg money with it because people are addicted to it and for good reasons and should you abandon something you care about love and see all the good things in just because a politician is telling you is using it because of some compliant people in the highest parts of football

18:32Gabby:as part of his his megaphone system i'm not sure which means that fifa has all the power barney doesn't it like like like all all sorts of footballing organizations they do have the power because they know that we will, we, as in those of us that love football, we cannot abandon something that we love. We don't. That's true. Although I suppose even in the process of having this conversation and broadcasting it, we are resisting the idea that this is simply a one-way relationship. But it's also a football tells you about the world situation. I mean, sport's always explaining things. Can I tell you an interesting story about that?

19:16You would have seen, obviously, the video where Donald Trump declares that the US is going to take out the Ayatollah. We're declaring war on Iran, essentially. But he's wearing a hat in that. He's wearing a cheap baseball cap with USA on it. that cap is not it's not anything to do with the White House it's not a MAGA cap it's a Donald Trump cap it's part of his official merchandise range the only other person I've seen wearing that hat is Gianni Infantino a week before at the Board of Peace meeting where peace in the world was being further reinforced where he laughed laughing it up in exactly the same hat and that That level of complicity and of close proximity to power is repulsive and needs to be pointed out and needs to be resisted.

20:06Gabby:Who holds him to account? I don't mean President Trump, because we know nobody, it would appear, can hold him to account. But Gianni Infantino has got, you know, his delegation, if you like, is the world. Right. And the world, football is the world. You know, it is the universal sport. And while he's doing that and representing us, football, the world, you know, who is holding into account the fact that he's given a peace award to a man who's just apparently now a warmonger, you know, is waging war on a country that our own prime minister has had to kind of take, you know, time to work out where he sits internationally because he wasn't sure that what he did was legal.

20:48Gabby:and obviously France has taken the position that they don't want to get as involved because they're not sure about the legality of this war. So I'm naming one of our neighbours, for example, who are also a big football nation. Who will ever hold him to account? Well, I mean, you don't even need to bring Iran into it. Eight acts of overseas aggression in his second term. This happened before the Peace Prize happened. You know, it's an absurd invention. But the problem you have is that FIFA has a ridiculous governance structure where essentially there's this huge executive power. It's structured like an ancient empire where the Exco and Infantino, they essentially work for him rather than the other way around.

21:31No other organisation is structured like this. And there are vast amounts of money to be dispensed because the World Cup generates$5 billion every time it's staged plus the stuff in between. So nobody else, I can't think of any other organisation where you're given that much power. So as long as you keep dispensing the money to the people who vote you in, which are the football associations, they will keep voting you in. And there are kind of sub parts of that organisation who are entirely on the same train as Infantino. There's nothing in their interest to get rid of him or to say we don't like the way this happens.

22:05So it's only the football associations who can do anything about this person. To some degree, the FBI, who managed to kind of carve out the last regime, but that was because they got sloppy. There was really obvious corruption and because it passed through the American system and they were able to actually put a pin in it. But there was absolutely no way of having any kind of recourse to what Infantino is doing other than football associations growing a backbone and saying, we don't want to be involved in this anymore. and there was a period where that may have seemed possible under the FIFA of Sepp Blatter because there was a feeling that club football was even going to usurp international football as a money generating machine we don't really need this thing but that's not what's happened recently international football is really popular it generates huge amounts of money and the associations in many of these countries that's their sole source of income really so there is no it's in nobody's interest to break with this ludicrous regime and also this FIFA

23:04Gabby:regime have have launched what you could deem a power grab on club football as well with with the club world cup which is not popular amongst players pfas or even necessarily fan bases but is quite popular amongst a lot of owners globally because it brings them untold riches and i'm not just talking about if you're chelsea and winning it i'm talking about i don't know if you're a team in Morocco who gets to the to the quarter final yeah it's difficult and FIFA will say well we're spreading as you say we're spreading the wealth that this is good I mean that's an entirely debatable idea and you're spreading the wealth to one or two clubs in those leagues who will benefit from it and create a distortion in the league the Club World Cup is in itself a completely fake construct the only reason it has any pull is because it has a billion dollar prize fund And that billion dollar prize fund comes from a broadcast deal with DAZN, which was offered by DAZN when nobody else was bidding for it.

24:07It's not market rated. DAZN offered a billion dollars shortly after it sold a stake of itself for a billion dollars to Saudi Arabia, to the Sovereign Wealth Fund. So watch the cups moving on the table. Follow the billion dollars. Shortly after that, Saudi Arabia was awarded a World Cup by FIFA by applause. They had a vote of acclamation. I mean, it's almost cartoonishly A to B. This isn't hiding. It's not in the shadows.

24:34Gabby:Do you expect, and this is a very difficult question to answer, I suppose, but do you expect, just to slightly move it off football, given that we've highlighted how much money and politics and sport are all interacting here, do you expect other sports to have dilemmas over coming weeks and months? F1 is about to start its season in Australia, but quite a lot of its early season races are in the Middle East as well. Saudi and Bahrain come next month. Yeah, there's a massive problem there because so many of those nations have quite legitimately decided to diversify, to create this kind of leisure economy because fossil fuels don't last forever.