Will Verstappen abandon Red Bull? Could Silverstone save Hamilton's season? And a tribute to Diogo Jota

0:00Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word.

0:08Mark Pougatch:My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. It was a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees, may apply. This is a Global Player original podcast. The image of Lewis Hamilton winning the British Grand Prix last year was a huge moment of triumph and redemption to cap off a brilliant Mercedes career. Eight times we've said it before. Here's a ninth for you. Lewis Hamilton wins the British Grand Prix. What a victory. Hamilton is back. Superb. What a superb drive.

0:57Mark Pougatch:But what's gone wrong for Hamilton and Ferrari? And could it finally click for them at Silverstone this weekend, where half a million people are expected to attend as Brad Pitt's F1 film continues to chase the box office records for a sports movie? The best plot twist, though, might be four-time world champion Max Verstappen going to Mercedes. Are they interested with Red Bull struggling? Is Verstappen going to get out of his contract? We're going to speak to world championship winner Jenson Button. And as McLaren dominate F1 with friend of the pod Lando Norris in prime position to take his first ever Silverstone win, we're going to speak to McLaren CEO, Zac Brown, and former Formula One driver, Mark Webber.

1:37Welcome to The Sports Agents.

1:46The Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

1:53Mark Pougatch:Hello, Mark. Mark. Hi Gabby, how are you? Oh, I'm a wee bit tired this morning because we picked off the Euros last night and we're doing the first tranche of matches from the studios in Salford. I come to you now from the south of England and got off air quite late last night. So you know what it's like when you go home after something like that, you're kind of mulling it around in your mind, aren't you, for quite a while afterwards and the match and everything else and the beginning of a big tournament. So yes, I feel a little bit tired. Yeah, a bit tired, but not as tired as it was. It was a successful style, wasn't it?

2:24And a good game?

2:25Mark Pougatch:Yeah, it was good because Switzerland, obviously, as the host, you want to have a good tournament. They've never qualified from a group in the Euros and they've only been in a couple of Euros before. And they were leading 1-0 at half-time. And they were good for that lead. It was all Switzerland, Norway, who are stacked with players. They've got players who've won the Champions League this season. They've got the former Ballon d 'Or winner in Ege Hegerberg, who's the current captain, who's, of course, missed five years of her international career in protest over the lack of equality she felt in Norwegian football.

2:52Mark Pougatch:She's, you know, she's leading them as well as countless other names in there. And they were awful in the first half. But it was Hegelberg who came back with the equaliser. Then they got a penalty that they missed. And, you know, yeah, they ended up coming out on top Norway. But I did feel for the Swiss because, you know, your opening game, your own... You just want to get off to a good start in your own tournament, don't you? You do. And now they've, you know, obviously got to play Iceland who got beaten by Finland. So, yeah, it was a good start. It was a good start. The sport never ends, really.

3:20It's such an entertaining summer of sport. Got seeds falling everywhere at Wimbledon and the Brits doing well, which has surprised us, the Brits, which is probably the most British thing in the world. I think at some point we have to park history and being surprised at one or two Brits getting through it and realise that there is actually a lot of strength in depth in British tennis, particularly amongst the kids.

3:45Mark Pougatch:Do you know what it feels like at Wimbledon as well? There's so many seeds falling, top seeds falling. The sport at the moment does feel like everyone can beat everyone. And I'm saying this in the hope that Emma Raducano believes that because her performance was incredible to get through to the third round, but she has got the reward of Irina Zabalenka. Yeah. Top seed. Which will be fascinating to watch. It will be fascinating to watch, will that. And then bubbling along in the background, still in the background a little bit, I think, isn't it? The Lions Tour of Australia, because they haven't played a test yet.

4:13They've had a couple of warm-up matches down under. But the story there is more off the pitch. and Andy Farrell going to bring in son Owen to join this squad because Elliot Daly has broken his arm. And I suppose if you're looking at it from a positive point of view, and you tell me, there's a versatility to Owen Farrell and there's a leadership to Owen Farrell, and he's a former Lion anyhow. So he's not going to be phased by any of it.

4:42Mark Pougatch:No, I was just discussing this with Mr. Logan before we came on the pod, actually. And he said it's all about the centre, because Daly filled in at centre as playing full-back and actually they've got quite a lot of full-backs, but it's the centre where they potentially could be down if they had an injury there. And he is versatile in that respect and all the winning he has done in his career, he would be a great addition. And he knows the head coach really well. Yeah.

5:12And actually, but on that, people say, well, it's his son, so he's going to pick him. I would have thought it's harder the other way, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. Look, he probably is who I want for this, but he's my son.

5:26Mark Pougatch:If it was a 10 that got injured, I think he'd find it harder to bring him in because of the calls for George Ford. But it's because Owens obviously plays 12, and I think that is where the crux of this has come. And he's probably wrestled with it with his coaches, hasn't he? I imagine Andy Farrell. He's a thoughtful man. He would have said to the rest of the team, look, is this the right call? and nobody would let him, I think, make something that was pure nepotism. I suppose the flip side of it and where the questions are being asked, Owen Farrell hasn't played international rugby in nearly two years.

5:55He hasn't played at all in nearly nine weeks when he suffered a concussion playing for Racing against Lyon on the 4th of May. That was his last game for them. He's moving back to join Saracen. So that's what the critics will throw in.

6:10Mark Pougatch:I also think with Owen Farrell, he wouldn't even say yes if he didn't think he could do it because he is so kind of single-minded isn't he and I think he probably knows his own body and at this stage in your career you look at what they did with Johnny Sexton to get him to a World Cup Ireland this is and actually with that experience in that position of being a playmaker it's one of those positions where ironically your fitness your match fitness isn't as important as your mental fitness in the game almost I think you know if I if you look at somebody like Finn Russell you know his decision making is way more powerful than his body in many ways.

6:44Mark Pougatch:I'm not saying he's not in great shape when I just say, but he clearly is. Just one of those moments where I thought, I'll just leave two or three seconds here just for Gabby to get herself out of this one. The other big news, and the athletic season kind of is up and running. And we spoke to Michael Johnson about Grand Slam Track that was about to do its third of the four meets that he had planned when we spoke to him. But the big news in the last week was that LA, the fourth Grand Slam track was cancelled. But now stories emerging, which in the Times yesterday, that a lot of the participants, the athletes, are still owed up to millions of pounds accumulatively of fees, which is really worrying for, you know, for obviously the event itself, but for the athletes involved and just for the credibility of the event.

7:33It feels like it has been a bit of a battle all the way through this, doesn't it? You know, Michael was fascinating to talk to when he came on the pod. I mean, Grand Slam Track have sent an email to all the athletes saying that Jamaica prize money would be paid before the end of July, the remaining payments by the end of September. We did contact Grand Slam Track for a response. They declined to comment as well. It's tough, isn't it? It's tough and it's a bit messy. I hope World Athletics can take a little kind of look and think,

8:02Mark Pougatch:well, there was something here, you know, because obviously they're competing in the Diamond League and then you've got the World Athletics events as well. And that's the problem with the sport, I think, is that it's so disenfranchised. There's so many different ways to do this and there's no sense of people knowing what's going on where. And maybe they all come together. I mean, am I asking too much? All come together and think, right, what is in the best interest of the athletes? There was some really good stuff from Grand Slam Track. How can we harness that and bring MJ and what he was doing there on board?

8:30Mark Pougatch:I don't know. It feels like they tried something and you've got to give them credit for trying. And there's been some terrible sporting news as well with the death of Diogo Jota, the Liverpool and Portugal forward in a car crash. We will pay tribute to him at the end of this podcast.

8:53Mark Pougatch:Next to Silverstone, ahead of this weekend's British Grand Prix, the biggest event in the F1 calendar for British fans. British racing icon and former World Championship winner Jenson Button will be in our studio. And the question everyone's asking, is Verstappen about to break his Red Bull contract? The Sports Agents. So ahead of the British Grand Prix, who better to chat to than Jenson Button, who has just been racing around global headquarters in a cart against Amanda Holden. Can you just explain? That was a tough race, I have to say. Yeah, I came away with a victory, but it was a well-fought race by both of us, I thought.

9:29But I'm happy to win. I would imagine that's quite a difficult course, isn't it? because the global building is very narrow with a lot of stairs. I know. So we had to drive these little carts into lifts down and then back and then outside. You're lucky that lift worked.

9:48Mark Pougatch:Exactly. We needed a key, but it was great fun. Really good. We've got to top it now, obviously. Okay, let's look at emotions and let's get on the track because this weekend, of course, it is the British Grand Prix. And the first person I want to talk to you about is Lewis Hamilton because you moved around a lot in your career. I think you drove for seven teams. And obviously for him, this is a big move to Ferrari that so far has not produced what he would like, which is a podium finish. And he comes in as last year's champion at Silverstone. And there will be huge numbers there who come to Silverstone for him and want to see him do well.

10:23Mark Pougatch:Do you get kind of the frustration that he must be feeling now that things aren't moving in the direction that he wants? I think initially with the team, I think initially he found it a little bit difficult to find the pace but then in China in the sprint qualifying in the sprint race he obviously put it on pole and he won the race and that was a strength of Ferrari in the shorter races they were stronger from what I've heard because of the fuel levels lighter fuel it really worked better for the car they could get the car close to the ground so it was in its element as a team they're obviously not quite there you know fighting for wins um but also lewis i think yes it's it's tricky when you leave a team like mercedes that you've you spent so many years winning titles with and you've developed this car around your driving style and then you jump in something that's completely different you know it's also racing for a team in a different country that speak a different language so it does take time he's obviously he's not a spring chicken anymore he's still a lot younger than I am but uh he's 40 now and it is a little bit more difficult to learn at that age it does take longer but even if he's a tenth slower than he was five years ago he's still one of the best in the world and one of the quickest in the world it's still Lewis Hamilton so this is a perfect weekend for him to to get the best out the car and of himself you know in front of the British fans he always comes alive at this race and for a driver like Lewis the British Grand Prix is everything.

11:54What did you find the hardest when you moved to a new team? And who is the most important person to connect with? Your engineer. You know, the driver-engineer relationship is the most important. When you move teams, it takes a while to get that rapport between your engineer and yourself and understanding because you know every driver explains what the car is doing in a different way it takes a bit of time to really get a good understanding between you two do you like need to go for a beer with them yeah and there's that but also i mean it's it's spending a bit of time with them out of the car but i think it's it's making sure that you're open and you talk about them is a big thing yes uh where a lot of racing drivers we probably don't and engineers don't ask enough questions of the drivers well he says i'm constantly battling the

12:47Mark Pougatch:engineers that that that language seems quite robust doesn't it that doesn't point to harmony you're right maybe he does need to go for a beer with them whether he drinks or not uh just spending a bit of time away from a racetrack i think is key and away from the factory but lewis is he's been there done that he's he knows what he's doing so it it will happen for him once he gets that good understanding between himself and his engineer you know he's not suddenly slow he's still lewis Hamilton, seven-time world champion. So he will be competitive. It's just taking more time than he probably wanted.

13:21When you move from one team to, this is obviously from someone who's never sat in an F1 car and doesn't understand technology very well. When you move from one team to another and sit in a new car for the first time, is it like driving again for the first time? Is it that different no definitely not so what so are the differences really subtle they are but it's also it's feels slightly different maybe you can't we call it combining so basically when you're braking and turning in some cars are very good at that uh some cars aren't because you'll lock the inside tires and this is one of the problems that daniel ricciardo had when he left um red bull and he went through the Renault route and then into the McLaren, he couldn't drive those cars because you couldn't combine like you could in the Red Bull.

14:11He was this superstar in a Red Bull and then he just couldn't get it together in a McLaren. He hadn't lost his talent. He just didn't find a car that really he could drive to the maximum. That's the thing. It's finding the nuances of the car and working around them. And it might even take a year of development and the new 2026 car for Lewis to feel 100 % comfortable in this.

14:32Mark Pougatch:But you can't test drive them, can you? You know, you can't go, oh, I'm not going to move. This is a huge move. And, you know, at the moment, the Stappen, you know, all the talk about him going to Mercedes. The same thing potentially could happen to him, right? If he's moving from a car that is absolutely perfect for him. How does he know that that car is going to work? You have the simulator, which the drivers do quite a bit of work in the simulator, but it's still not real life. So when you get on the circuit, it's always a little bit different. And yeah, you get one and a half days of testing before the start of the season.

15:02And that's it. That's all you get before you rock up at the first race. And even for a driver that's been with a team for many years, getting into the new car of that team, it's difficult, let alone moving teams. So yeah, someone like Max thinking about moving to Mercedes, it's exciting for him. It's exciting for all of us watching that are fans of the sport. But is it going to give him what he needs? You know, this team, Red Bull, have been around him for years. They've developed this car around him. As you can see, no one else can drive the Red Bull. nobody can drive the red ball he'll qualify on power and his teammate will be 18th it's i've never seen anything like it um so yes when you move to a new team is he going to have that i don't know and um it's going to take him a while to get to grips with the new car the regulations do change a lot next year we have a chassis change we have also a an engine change power unit change so it's a lot to take on board uh personally i'd want to be with the team that i've been with for years because there's so much more to learn you need the base of that team and and obviously there

16:04Mark Pougatch:are other things going on behind the scenes in terms of this move aren't there um and there was obviously discord within uh the camp at the end of last season as well so there's personalities that are at play here um and max and george russell got a lot of beef as well could could they ever be a pairing i would love to see it whether it would happen or not i don't know but But from my point of view as a fan of the sport and also doing TV work, yes, we want to see that. We want to see that within a team. It's Alan Prost at Encena. Do you know what I mean? So I am a big fan of both of them. I think they're both very skilled.

16:41I feel for George a little bit because everyone's saying if Max does go to Mercedes, it'll be George that's leaving. But the guy's at the top of his game. He's an exceptional talent, works hard. When he was up against Lewis, he beat Lewis. this to do that i know how difficult that is uh so it's it's a real strange situation we find ourselves in of trying to replace an amazing driver with another amazing driver at uh at mercedes so uh if they were teammates yeah i think it'd be great for us very difficult for toto though but but why why would he have to leave because the theory is i mean you mentioned prost and center when they were together but the theory being you can't have two number ones I think in the sport you need two very good drivers now.

17:27If you want to win a constructors championship, you know, you look at McLaren at the moment. Oscar, Lando, they're both scoring big points. Yeah, they have the best car, but they're not really making big mistakes. Obviously, Canada, if Lando was not such a good weekend, crashing with his teammate. But that's going to happen when you're both fighting at the front. It doesn't happen very often. And they're always pulling in big points. So you need that. You know, they're so far in front of the championship. Even though Max has put in some great results, his teammates have scored hardly any points.

17:57So you need both drivers to be fighting for the World Championship. You need to give two drivers the opportunity. These guys have worked their whole life to get to Formula One. You need to give them that equal opportunity. Did you want a teammate who you were friendly with and worked together as a team? Or did you prefer a teammate who was going to be up there competing with you? Who, you know, it was more of a rivalry? I wanted everything. I wanted, you know, Rubens Barrichello, for example, when I won the world championship in 2009. He was extremely quick, but he was also very good at setting up a car.

18:33He was very good at engineering a car, which helped me. At the end of that year, for me, the exciting thing was to go to a team like McLaren and race alongside Lewis Hamilton, because that's when you really judge yourself when you're racing against the best in the world. I would always want the most competitive teammate one because it pushes you but also if you beat that driver you're the best at that moment in time and that's one of the best things ever probably more than winning a world championship winning a race knowing that you beat Lewis Hamilton in the same car

19:04Mark Pougatch:Let's talk about Silverstone and how special it is it's the 75th anniversary of Silverstone hosting the first Formula One World Championship Grand Prix which is held in 1950 take us back, not to then obviously you've mentioned your age take us back through your memories and and where it kind of ranked in your career highlights racing there well the first time i went to silverstone was 1992 camping with my dad and a little caravan um and that was you know an amazing memory watching these cars drive through maggots and becketts which is a fast-flowing section of the track just being blown away and then I got to drive in 2000 my first year in Formula One for Williams and finishing fifth overtaking Michael Schumacher at turn one at the start of the race and David Courtaud won the race so we partied hard after that one so that for me is one of my best memories of racing at Silverstone I've never stood on the podium at the British Grand Prix you know I've won Monaco I've won the world championship 15 Grand Prix victories never been on the podium with the British Grand Grand Prix, which hurts.

20:13That's the one thing that really hurts because the support you get as a British driver, not just if you win, but also just being on the grid, there's so much support. And you know, that's one thing I regret. And one thing I'm definitely jealous of Lewis, of winning how many times he has the British Grand Prix. The first time I actually stood on the podium was when I awarded Lewis his, well, I didn't award him his trophy, but I interviewed Lewis when he won the race in 2018 I think.

20:40Mark Pougatch:And British Hopes this weekend we've already kind of discussed George obviously Lando in there as we've discussed Lewis for a team like Williams as well this is obviously a big moment you're I know an ambassador for Williams so do you see British success this weekend across across the weekend? It's a it's a big weekend for British motorsport three exceptional drivers for me it's the best three drivers I've I can remember British drivers in the sport I'm sure people disagree but that's my feelings of when I've been racing all have won races all capable of winning a world championship Lewis' win last year was just incredible and the crowd went crazy this year it's a little bit more difficult you'd think that Lando has the best chance don't count Lewis out and Mercedes might be on a good weekend and we might see George up there as well yes Williams I've loved seeing their progress over the last couple of years and to see them fighting for sort of fifth fourth sixth position in races this is a massive step for them especially coming into the British Grand Prix so I really do hope they'll have a good race with with Alex and Carlos speaking of racing what one of one of the last times I interviewed you you challenged me to a triathlon but i didn't hear from you again so were you were you running scared or i was waiting on the start line ah well we were must have been a different start line are you still doing iron man i just speedos ready and everything for you no i'm not i'm not still doing no not you chappers i definitely know you're not still doing or ever have done an iron man um are you are you still doing triathlons and iron man and all that no no I would love to be but life's a bit busy at the moment you know I'm doing a lot of stuff around F1 I'm also still racing and endurance racing uh and I've got two kids now so yeah I feel like I'm doing a triathlon and Ironman every day but I'm not you think back to those simple heady days where you could you could go out and train for five hours yeah I remember back to being an f1 driver and i was so spoiled i was so spoiled all i had to do was drive a racing car for a living i mean and i thought that was tough i thought oh the schedule's so busy and everything you wouldn't have had to you wouldn't have had to do anything would you you wouldn't have had to book travel hotels ever ever think of what you're eating it would have all have just been there yeah i never paid a bill and i met my wife and we got married she's like what you don't know how to pay a bill it's like no so yeah you kind of they say when you leave f1 you leave at the age you you got into f1 and i think that's correct i got into f1 at 20 and i left at 20 so i've had a lot to learn in life people say oh willie the world championship must be the best thing you've ever done it's like no i it's having kids and uh and they are awesome but they're tough aren't they oh tough cookies but amazing at the same time well the big smile on your face says i think you've got the balance right and it seems that life is is pretty good at the moment so i really appreciate you coming in and spending time with us today ahead of uh what must be a jam-packed weekend for you thank you guys yeah lovely speaking to you see you on the start line soon of a triathlon should we just yeah absolutely yeah yeah yeah Well, as Jensen was saying, McLaren's drivers have had a great season.

24:10They're way out in front at the moment. So Mark Pugac headed down to Trafalgar Square to McLaren Racing Live to catch up with two men at the centre of the success. Up next, McLaren Racing CEO, Zac Brown, and Mark Webber, former racing driver and manager of championship leader, Oscar Piastri. The Sports Agents.