World Cup draw: Are Trump & Infantino too close for comfort?

11:48Adam Crafton:Do you know what? Do you know what? I'll jump in. It's shit. It's a really shit idea. Okay, and I'll tell you why. Because you go back, I know you don't remember 1993, Adam. I was in my mummy's tummy at that point. Right. Good God. 1982, the best group ever at a World Cup, when they had a second stage group at a World Cup in 82, had Argentina, Brazil and Italy in the same group of three. And they played each other in some of the best games a World Cup has seen. And sometimes, do you not think, Gabby? Yeah, because especially now with 48 tickets,

12:26Mark Pougatch:you are going to get some absolutely, let's call them unattractive propositions popping up. The games that, you know, when they come out of the hat at Salford, BBC Central, for us to present, we'll be accidentally dropping them on the floor and giving them to somebody else because they're not going to be the ones that you want to kind of...

12:44Adam Crafton:We'll give them Kelly. Is that what you're saying?

12:48Mark Pougatch:She's not here, so yes. Okay.

12:50Gabby Logan:So who's doing the opening game then?

12:52Mark Pougatch:We don't know anything yet in terms of... We don't know anything. So what happens is the draw from a broadcast point of view, I mean, you probably already know this, Adam, but anybody that doesn't, ITV and BBC obviously split the World Cup between them. And they've already decided certain things because they do that in advance about, you know, kind of potentially England's route through and where they would, which quarterfinal, which semifinal. However, they don't know the full package yet. And so they'll sit down in a dark room and they'll just hammer out and debate until they're all happy with the games that they're doing.

13:21Mark Pougatch:And then they'll come to us and dish them out.

13:24Adam Crafton:shall i tell the story so each tournament it alternates doesn't it gabby who gets who gets first pick either itv or bbc but that was decided a few tournaments ago with the toss of a coin but the the two heads of sport or heads of football at the time toss that coin and then whoever tossed it dropped it and it rolled under a radiator in the room so so the whole order the The whole order of how people have picked was decided by the two heads having to scrabble under a radiator. That's right, isn't it?

13:59Mark Pougatch:I thought you were going to tell the Gary Newborn one when he was doing the England reporters role for ITV and Garth Crooks for the BBC. And I'm pretty sure it was Gary who was late and they were deciding who was interviewing the manager first. I think it was Terry Venables. And they tossed without him. And Gary ran up and said, I'm the number one tosser. And it might have been Garth. Sorry, Gary, forgot the wrong way around. Anyway, tossing aside, I mean, we really should this. It'd be a lot easier, wouldn't it, if these groups were decided with the toss of a coin. Should we get into the politics, Chappers?

14:29Adam Crafton:Yeah. You know, everything feels like it can move at the moment, Adam. Doesn't it, though, with this World Cup? And a decree may come in here or a rule may come in here or a whim may have to be satisfied here. That's what it feels like from afar. In the thick of it in the States, is that exactly the same feeling?

14:51Gabby Logan:There's definitely a sense of unpredictability. There's a sense that outside events may have a significant impact on the tone and tenor of the tournament. Even last week, obviously, the awful shooting that happened in D.C. of the members of the National Guard. But the response to that has been so, so strong from the Trump administration where last night you have the Secretary of State for Homeland Security kind of just going on Twitter saying that had a meeting with the president and, you know, they want even bigger travel bans. Now, if I'm FIFA and I'm hearing more talk about travel bans, that's not really what FIFA want to hit.

15:34Gabby Logan:You know, like we've already got countries who've

15:36Mark Pougatch:qualified are not allowed in the country. Haiti being one of them. So Iran being another. So we've got countries who have qualified being told they're not going to get visas anyway. Some countries, it can take up to a year to get a visa potentially. So, well, that ship sailed for them, hasn't it, if they haven't already applied. And then you've got, you know, as Mark alluded to there, the whims of Trump in terms of, you know, deciding that Seattle and its mayor or its governor is too liberal and maybe it's time to move, you know, Seattle as a venue. And Mark made a great point before that if this was another country, would we not be being more critical about that regime being so dictatorial in the way it's kind

16:18Gabby Logan:of overpowering this world cup i think we probably would be and i think there's a few sort of caveats to that one is that you know like if you take qatar like the difference between qatar and america is america obsessively talks about itself right it's scrutinizing itself it's not like there isn't journalists doing journalism about what donald trump is doing which is i think different to a Qatar or a Russia. Now, it doesn't mean that everything that's happening is right or wrong or whatever, but I do think that's a difference. The second point is FIFA have this very weird relationship with the Trump administration where they are kind of getting some of what they want.

16:57Gabby Logan:And so, you know, the thing that you just mentioned about the wait times for a visa appointment so if i'm a tourist from columbia or morocco or turkey i know turkey haven't qualified yet and i'm trying to get a visa some of the wait times can be like up to a year as you said but fifa over the past couple of weeks have got what is a pretty big concession in the context of this administration which is basically if you have a fifa ticket for the world cup we will expedite you an appointment now that doesn't guarantee you get in and there's still all the same extremely stringent vetting that's going on at the moment including of social media and all of that kind of stuff and i think if you are a young man seeking to travel for a short time to the united states from certain countries it's going to be a challenge in a two-minute interview to persuade consulate officers that you don't intend to overstay and things like that so it's not going easy but that that is significant there is also a 625 million federal funding commitment for security that fifa managed to get along with host cities so some of this stuff is bare minimum stuff that host countries should be doing for these events but they feel like extraordinary things within the administration with regards like relocating games trump says a lot of things during oval office news conferences i don't think the host cities are taking those threats that seriously but there is a danger that dissuades people from traveling and getting involved and

18:28Adam Crafton:all the economic impacts there's an assumption isn't there when you talk about decisions happening on a whim that it that all goes one way depending on what the president wants for a lot of people in football there is a feeling that fifa are making up as they go along as well to a certain with with the recent decision on Ronaldo being the most obvious and there isn't anybody that I have talked to in football over the last week or so who isn't doesn't seem to be absolutely I mean it might be slightly different because for Gabby because she was with Roberto Martinez but in the main there's a real there's a real fury actually at what they've done here

19:14Gabby Logan:yeah and i don't know why because portugal are a lot worse when he plays so it should be the other way around no um i i think i mean it was really interesting because he came to the white house i mean that in itself was just this kind of extraordinary demonstration this ronaldo going to the white house of what the world now seems to be which is kind of the richest most famous most powerful men just hanging out in the white house etc and rinaldo was there mbs was there trump was there gianni was there um gianni's always there um i think he might have his own room at this point um and i actually got a message from someone who knows people high up in the portuguese federation and on the morning it was happening saying you know they think rinaldo might think it's a good idea given the red card last week and also just to kind of re-enter the states again given some of the allegations that have previously been made around ronaldo you know where charges have never been brought but as a result of that i almost i hesitated about writing about it because it first of all it's kind of unprovable you know ronaldo goes to the white house to try and get out of a red card and it just seems so ridiculous and then within a few days it's happened and there is no evidence that the two things were linked but if you are sitting in FIFA you must surely have the awareness that this doesn't look great.

20:45Mark Pougatch:We also know how much Baron Donald's son with Melania loves soccer he got Wayne Rooney when he was head coach at DC to go around and coach him personally and and we know that Donald attributes a lot of his success with the TikTok and Instagram community and the online community in terms of votes at the election to Barron because Barron came up with his strategy, apparently, which was do some stuff on podcasts. But anyway, he loves soccer. And you can imagine Donald as somebody who wants to be loved and please everybody in his kind of aura. If Barron says you've got to get this guy in because he's really important in world football, he'd do it, right?

21:21Mark Pougatch:And I know it sounds idiotic saying a 19, 20 year old can have that much influence on the World Cup, but it could be just as basic as that.

21:28Gabby Logan:it could be i mean it's really funny what often when if i ever meet kind of owners of european football clubs in the states it's amazing how often they will say the fact that their kids are into soccer is kind of one of the the main reasons that they have ended up in there as well i think trump's interest in in the world cup and in soccer is is a bit more kind of basic even than than simply you know the baron link i think it's around two things first of all it's something he believes he can claim credit for because he was the president when they won the bid in 2018 in his first term so it's something he says he's responsible for and secondly i think he sees the world through tv and he sees the world through ratings and the world cup has incredible incredible billion rate you know multi-billion ratings and also is going to earn him a peace prize It's unconfirmed who will win the Peace Prize on Friday.

22:24Mark Pougatch:The inaugural, the inaugural FIFA Peace Prize.

22:26Adam Crafton:I was going to say, nobody else has ever won a FIFA Peace Prize, have they? No.

22:31Gabby Logan:Because it hasn't been a thing until then. No. So this was announced by Infantino on Instagram and FIFA released it as well. And I don't think it was any coincidence at all that it was a day where Infantino was going to see Trump at the draw, was going to be speaking on the same stage. He's already said himself, Infantino, on Instagram, because he's always on Instagram, said that Trump deserved the Nobel Peace Prize, which obviously he missed out on. So I think everyone is expecting it, partially because it would be so embarrassing to have Trump in the room and give someone else a peace prize at this point.

23:03Gabby Logan:That would be like humiliating. So they almost now have to give him the peace prize. But I do think it's going to be quite weird as an event that you can have all these people from football in a room and you're giving the president a peace prize, whether people think that's deserved or otherwise.

23:21Adam Crafton:I'm trying to it's so hard to sum up where we're at at the moment because there's one part of me that thinks ahead of this draw everything between FIFA and the States is so intertwined at the moment what else could come, what else will happen but then I suppose history tells you over many years of doing these tournaments this is how FIFA operate with host countries ahead of each event isn't it i mean in many ways much as you know there's all this attention on it and it is trump i get that and therefore that obviously escalates the attention it has always been like this

24:04Gabby Logan:really yeah i think infantino's fifa in particular has made it more like this and i think fifa came to the united states first of all they came late so you know they set up an office maybe 18 months ago or so in Miami that was late you know given when the draw was and obviously you have COVID in between but it felt like the planning and organization could have started earlier I don't think the kind of public awareness the national awareness of this World Cup is actually what it should be at in the United States either the Club World Cup obviously experienced big challenges as well I think the makeup of the states where you have you know you've got the federal government state cities private donors sports billionaires stadium owners makes it a particularly hard country to come in as a very rigid swiss organization or swiss based organization and try and impose your framework and they they encounter a lot of resistance to that a lot of people saying why would we do things the way fifa do it we're america we know how to put sports on we do sports every week we do taylor swift concerts every week do you know that is a

25:14Adam Crafton:positive actually the number of discussions that we would have had over previous tournaments fifa come in they seem to set their own rules on you know tax for example when they're hosting it when there is an event in the country they expect everybody to do it their way i mean there is something actually quite refreshing about that attitude yeah i have to say there is but actually

25:35Gabby Logan:what's happened is the host cities have signed themselves to extraordinarily burdensome contracts you know fifa kind of come in they get all the ticketing revenue the stadiums have to be clean of sponsorship so you know metlife stadium as americans will know it will just be called world cup stadium new york fifa stadium new york the only things that host cities are allowed to sell are fan festival sponsorships which for american host cities is pretty is pretty limited all the security costs policing costs transportation costs are being swallowed by the host cities even the car park revenue is going to fifa so fifa have done themselves an amazing deal i think where you're going to see the pushback to this is actually for the 2031 world cup because i think a lot of the host cities have been looking at this over the last couple of years just being like what the hell have we signed up to here and you know do you get this this argument around economic impact that the host cities and FIFA make where they say you know we're going to make 40 billion in the states during this tournament it's all worth it even today there's going to be a bill announced presented to the House of Representatives which is asking for another 50 million dollars a year to go towards helping host cities with transport costs a huge amount of American taxpayer dollars have already gone into making this happen and I think what you're going to see for the Women's World Cup in 2031 is America basically asking FIFA I think you can maybe you could put a bit more in as well.

27:05Adam Crafton:The Sports Agents.

27:09Gabby Logan:The Sports Agents.

27:10Mark Pougatch:With Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman.

27:16Mark Pougatch:So it seems, Chap, as there is still quite a lot to find out about this World Cup, quite a lot of unknowables and some interesting questions to answer. And I think it's going to continue right the way up to the opening game, to be honest.

27:28Adam Crafton:I genuinely think there'll be unknowables the night before the opening match. well definitely 100 %

27:34Mark Pougatch:are you looking forward to the second Ashes test starting on Thursday in lighter news

27:39Adam Crafton:I don't know if looking forward is looking forward the right word I don't know do you know what I do like about this and I'm with Joe Root on I don't think the Ashes needs a day night test I don't think it needs a pink ball test I do agree with Joe Root on that

27:56Mark Pougatch:how does the pink ball just from a cricketing kind of you know stupid question How is that going to affect the game, do you think?

28:03Adam Crafton:It moves differently to a red ball because of the lacquer on it. And also, Alistair Cook was saying the seam becomes, it's a, so on a red ball, it's a white seam on a red ball. And when you are batting, and bearing in mind when I played cricket, I was a number 11 batsman. I mean, I just wanted to see the ball, let alone the seam. and if I could see the ball then that was a bonus but with a pink ball it's a black seam on a on a pink ball and that black seam as the ball gets older Alistair Cook says gets harder to see now one of the things you need to do as a as an elite batsman not a number 11 club cricket club cricketer third 11 batsman is to be able to see that seam so you so you can kind of hopefully anticipate how it's going to move when it hits the pitch and so on and so forth so i think that is one of the one of the biggest things and also it's the glare of the floodlights combined with the pink ball can make it more difficult as well so you may have seen in the build-up to this steve smith is wearing the um the black pads underneath the eyes to lessen the reflection which are the glare which is what a lot of the nfl players do so there are differences in how a pink ball behaves and what you can see compared to so if it's harder to hit is it going to be even quicker than the first test no i don't think it will because because but but it does bring into it does bring into play slightly different tactics so there've been some pink ball tests that have actually been very high scoring in australia australia have played a lot more pink ball tests than england they've played a lot more day nighters a lot better at it yeah and so mitchell stark for example who tormented england in that first test is a whiz with the pink ball.

29:55Adam Crafton:His figures with a pink ball are amazing. But it does bring into play other tactics. You know, Ben Stokes, when they played a pink test in New Zealand, I think, declared quite early England's first inning so they could try and get the opposition into bat under lights and England could take advantage of that. And it worked, actually. I think they took three wickets in that session. But it was a very early declaration.

30:19Mark Pougatch:The good thing about a day night is that in this country,

30:22Adam Crafton:in waking hours we should see more of it and that's the that's the biggest positive i think it gets underway at 4 25 and it will finish around midday okay so actually when you wait if you wake up at half six you're going to get a whole load of cricket every morning thursday morning isn't it so we're waking up to it wednesday night yeah so thursday oh i'm doing match of the day on wednesday so shall i just stay up stay up and it will still be on when we record thursday's pod won't it? Yes. So that's perfect. Yeah, maybe around then. So just don't have any sleep from match of the day all the way through until close of play on that Thursday.

30:57Adam Crafton:So I'm always looking forward to an Ashes press. I like the name

31:01Mark Pougatch:for the gabbertoir. The gabbertoir. Yeah, which is what I call the homework room when the kids were little. The gabbertoir.

31:14Mark Pougatch:Brilliant. If you have any thoughts on the World Cup and of course if you've got any thoughts on the Ashes do let us know but if you've got any thoughts on the World Cup especially our conversation with Adam Crafton please get in touch via email thesportsagentsatglobal.com or messages on social media or via the link in the show notes

31:30Adam Crafton:make sure you subscribe follow leave a review please catch up with all of our past episodes on YouTube Global Player or wherever you get your podcasts thanks for listening The Sports Agents

31:39Mark Pougatch:with Gabby Logan and Mark Chapman

31:46Gabby Logan:This has been a Global Player original production.