Would Kompany want to replace Guardiola at Man City?

0:02This is a Global Player original podcast. I genuinely thought Vinny would be a world leader. He is a better player than the one who left England. And you had to go and buy your tickets from the Virgin Megastore on the Champs -Élysées. So first of all, I had to convince them, even though I've lived in Paris for a year. Hello, my name is Mark. Would he be a natural successor for you, Vinny?

0:31Welcome to the Sports Agents. Hello, Mark. Hello. Welcome to Manchester. I'm in your manor. You are in my manor. The sun is shining. It's beautiful. Flown straight in from Gay Parry. I can't believe you were there. How lucky are you? I've wanted to do a... I've done a women's football World Cup match there in 2019. I've never done a men's game there. Have you never? No, and I've not done a Champions League game there ever. And I did Champions League for ITV for years as well. so it's always been a dream to go because it always just looks so amazing on the telly and it lived up to everything and so much more it was the game that we have been craving for so long on Prime because we seem to have always felt oh that wasn't the game do you know what it did as well?

1:15I think it should restore confidence in the people who make the picks that you don't always have to choose the English team if Arsenal have got a very boring opposition that week let's go somewhere else I love how you do your pleas for what games you get on here rather than just rigging up your boss I'll do it publicly on the podcast and I'll get away with it I used to go and stand on the terraces at the Parc des Princes when I lived in Paris in the early 90s I would go there and I went Arsenal fans may hate me already but for the Cup Winners Cup semi-final which was Paris Saint-Germain against Arsenal and you had to go and buy your tickets from the Virgin Megastore on the Champs -Élysées.

2:01So first of all, I had to convince them because even though I'd lived in Paris for a year, my friend... Hello, my name is Mark. How are you? I had to convince them that I wasn't an arsehole fan and I had to show them my bank card in Paris and all that kind of stuff. And I went with a British friend and we had to... But because we were in the home end, we then had to speak French to each other all the way through. I'm sure they all knew we were pretty. Well, in the build-up last night, there is a strong link with that ground and our family because my dad played in the European Cup final there against Bayern Munich in 1975.

2:35And John Champion kindly showed in one of his chats with Alan Shearer a horrific tackle that my dad didn't get sent off for. And it's a famous final because Leeds fans still... That's the corrupt final. Yes, the corrupt final. Well, the referee came out later. He was Greek, I think. came out later and pretty much admitted that he was paid and some of the decisions were awful um so yeah so it's it's kind of in the family dna that that ground because of that so it was it was amazing and look everybody who was there feels it's like one of the great games they've seen and it was certainly one of the most entertaining so we will be talking about that a little bit but more about Bayern Munich in this episode and Vincent Kompany in particular so Seb Stafford Bloor will join us athletic German football correspondent Joe Hart will talk to us as well a man who knows Vincent Company very well.

3:24And in amongst all of this elite sport, you're very keen to talk about a man that we both know, a middle-aged journalist who put on the marathon-winning shoes for his amateur run round High Park. As Steve Cramm told us in the episode, which has been really well received, and you can go back and listen to that on Tuesday, that these trainers had to go on sale within 24 hours of the marathon for them to be actually legal for Sebastian Sarway to use. and they're 450 quid. And Matt Lawton has gone out and had a run in them. He was keen in the article in the Times. You should go back and have a look at that as well to impress upon us how good a youth athlete he was.

4:02He's a decent runner. And actually, the time that he was comparing a 5K to was a really good 5K time as well. He'd run it in like 20 minutes and 30 seconds or something a few weeks ago. And effectively, these trainers took almost a minute off his PB of running. And he wasn't particularly well prepared. He didn't have a breakfast of champions. he just popped them on to see how it felt so um i'm in well the interesting is i i mean i know i do keep banging on about my showbiz lifestyle but i occasionally see matt in my local sainsbury's so if he's got them on i'll be interested to see how fast he goes he goes around with his trolley he won't be wasting those what were they seven ounce trainers with their carbon insults to go around sainsbury's um but i thought it was it was a an interesting demonstration of just how powerful these trainers although i see you back in your are they sambas or giselles i don't know what i don't know what they are yeah you're not going very fast in those i'm not but they are they are the same manufacturer so i am i did ask of one big time this week haven't they not by me wearing these i know you get paid a lot of money to wear those don't you what's your shoe contract uh right moving on we'll uh we'll talk by munich and we'll talk vincent company Seb Stafford-Blur from The Athletic will join us next.

5:16Welcome to the sports agent, Sebastian Stafford-Blur, who is the German correspondent for The Athletic. It is good to have you with us the morning after. I've seen it described as a game from the gods, a game for the ages, the greatest Champions League game ever. It smashed so many records in terms of goals scored and was a sight to behold and to be in that stadium last night. With a night's sleep, how do you reflect on it? Let's call it half a night's sleep. Gabby, there were some pretty late deadlines which had to be met. It was brilliant, wasn't it? It's everything you want that kind of occasion to be.

5:49And I think because of the amount of European football now, we get used to it and some of its novelty, some of the sense of special occasion has been lost. But from first minute to last, a game that never lost its intensity, that's exactly what you want. What a privilege to be there. What a privilege to work in those kind of situations and in that kind of environment. A great night, a great night. Interesting kind of reflections as well from two pundits in particular, the poor defending from both sides. And I think our producers were a bit disappointed with them for not just being full of hyperbole and kind of saying this is the greatest game ever.

6:25But Wayne Rooney and Clarence Seedorf wanted to ask the question where defending had gone in top level European football rather than just appreciate the incredible attacking performances. Is there any of that coming through from especially a team that's managed by one of the great defenders of the last 20 years? is there any of that coming through the German media? There's been a little bit of it I think where it's shown is in Vincenzo Kompany's selection of Alphonso Davies now Alphonso Davies is a wonderful footballer a brilliant, fantastically dynamic fullback but he's had a really disrupted season and I think some of his lack of rhythm showed last night also down the other side Josip Stanisic had a few difficulties one-on-one but then Gabby, I often think and I'm not really qualified to disagree with Clarence Seidel for Wayne Rooney at the same time what I would say is if you put um six attacking players of that quality on the pitch at the same time you make the game really transitional and you put players in situations where they are repeatedly one-on-one against ludicrously talented opponents yeah I think defending is going to look quite weak but then I remember thinking also and I've mentioned the Luis Diaz goal already but so he takes the touch and then he he kind of rocks Marquinhos back and forth and he's kind of helpless to do anything in that phase.

7:38I just remember thinking if that can happen to Marquinhos with all of experience, all his quality, his class, the captain, Paris Saint-Germain, a full international, I think it can happen to anyone and I've just got great sympathy but also, you know what it's like, you're in the stadium and you see the pace of it. It's enormously difficult to take away space from attacking players under those circumstances. I'm a bit with you Seb in that I've got no qualifications to disagree with players although I do like disagreeing with Wayne on a regular basis but the first thing that came through on the television and I think Alan said it in commentary as well was the sheer pace of that I mean that was I think the fastest game of football Wayne's argument to that was and he was really quite he said yeah because they're not tracking back he said they're only going forwards he said so these attacking players don't do much tracking back So was there criticism more about tactical setup and positionally?

8:35Because I didn't... There weren't times when I thought, oh my God, what are the hell... You know, that's a terrible individual mistake. Because sometimes, how are you meant to defend against Kovac Scalier, for example, or Elisa? And he said, you will see a very different... If Arsenal get through their tie against Atletico, whoever they play in a final, you'll see a very different game. Because Clarence is very impressed, for example, with Arsenal's defence. and he said, you know, that's why they've got the most clean sheets in Europe. They hardly ever concede in Europe. And he said that, and for him, that is how you win.

9:06I mean, bear in mind, obviously, you know, he played for 10 years, Milan. He's, you know, he's brought up with Italian defending. That is, for him, how you win. With Wayne, the argument was Alex Ferguson would be absolutely apoplectic in that dressing room. He said, and as an attacking player, if I've scored five goals, you know, I would be absolutely raging with my defence that they'd let four in. So their arguments, I think maybe they're of a different era and maybe now we have to throw the rulebook out, but their arguments are you win European ties by having great defences. But there was the Champions League final, and I can't remember, was it 2003 maybe?

9:45There was a Juventus AC Milan Champions League final at Old Trafford, which finished goalless after 120 minutes. And depending on what side of the fence you were on, was either a great display of Italian defending or dull as anything. Give me last night, any day of the week. Absolutely, completely. I think what's really interesting as well, I think Bayern are essentially a team that you would pick in that case then, Mark, because they are, even in their defensive positions, they're really proactive. They're very optimistic in a footballing sense. So you go through the list of players. Uppamikano is a very proactive centre-back.

10:25He's happy to step up out of the line. He wants to affect the game before the game comes to him. Jonathan Tarr, a little bit more reserved, but he's not an old-fashioned stopper by any means. And then you look at the fullbacks, even when Alphonso Davies is not playing, when it's Stanisic, when it's Conrad Lima, these are fullbacks who are being pushed infield and upfield. So Bayern are always really, I mean, their ball circulation is always aimed at how can we hurt you? I mean, and this is not to say they're fragile in any way, but I think there's a certain amount of risk baked into that strategy.

10:59And Vincent Kompany, one of the great center halves of his generation, of course, absolutely. But he is not a negative coach. And also, if you're a Bayern coach and your day-to-day is the Bundesliga, you have to be exceptional with the ball because that's what you face. You're going to face defences who drop into a low block, teams who are really, really good at counterattacking. The emphasis is on you to hurt people. And I think maybe the payoff with that is your Bundesliga titles and your ability to be destructive in European ties. But it's tricky. It's very difficult to then shut a game down afterwards.

11:33People watching last night who don't know much about Bundesliga and they don't know much about Ligue 1, they might then go, God, we don't get this in the Premier League, I'm going to start watching those games. So if they start watching Bundesliga, do they get that every week? Do they get four or five matches like that? No, I wouldn't say so because Bayern have such control of the league, Gabi. They enjoy such an enormous financial advantage that it's almost accepted that Bayern are going to be superior And so a lot of tactics that you see employed against them are a little bit reserved. The general standard of the football is very transitional.

12:08It's very back and forth. The league is very physical in that sense. It's a kind of a paradise for very quick technical attacking players. So if you think about kind of the Eintracht Frankfurt team last season with Hugo Eikotike and Oma Mamish, you do get that around the league. But you don't have teams that are stuffed with individual quality because the money is not there. you're not maybe British Dortmund are a little bit between Bayern Munich and the rest but you don't really have the opportunity to kind of load your squad up in a way that Paris Saint-Germain do it's a development league so you want to have players that that improve over the years maybe when they get to 23 24 are then sent towards the very top of the game because that that's the sales pitch for most of these clubs for most of the Eintracht Frankfurt's for Ebi Leipzig we're the club which will give you the platform to prove what good player you can be when you go on to Liverpool to Manchester City to Arsenal these clubs how much credit do you give Vincent company's coaching and does Vincent company's coaching get I mean you you talk about the money that Bayern have had they are able to go and recruit not not far off whoever they want really and also cherry pick their rivals as we've spoken about before to weaken them at the same time and they have a phenomenal use set up as well don't they so with all of the tools at his disposal how much credit should he also get an enormous amount mark because i i think the biomemic job is is kind of understood in terms of what it involves yes there's the team selection coaching element um and in that area company is done incredibly well because the team inherited were on a downswing really if you look at kind of their points tallies um from really from hansi flicks the pot onwards they're going down and going down it was a team that was degrading slowly with aging players who are beyond their prime um and company company's been tasked with rebuilding really and involved in that yes selections and strategy and automatism is built into the play there's an awful lot of ego management involved in that too um and i would also say some of the some of the assumptions about cherry picking rivals are a little bit outdated because is the talent doesn't really exist in German football at the moment to do that.

14:24There isn't a Mats Hummels, there isn't really another Florian Wirtz who could be taken away. I mean, the classic example is Mario Götze, but that's a decade and a half ago now. And so what companies have been able to do is... But they took Tarr, I suppose, didn't they? Yeah. You know, from watching last night, it's just, well, that weakens Leverkusen a bit. I suppose it does, and no doubt Jonathan Tarr was a hugely important member of the Leverkusen dressing room, as well as he was kind of quarterback of that defense. He's very, very important in their unbeaten double season. I just think the days of being able to systematically take away all the best parts of your opponents are gone because I don't think the opponents necessarily have that.

15:03The other thing about company, and I think this really does get underappreciated, is Bayern Munich are an enormously popular club. They attract a huge amount of media attention in a way that I suppose if you were to combine the media attention in England that flows towards Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. Put that all together and that's kind of the media circus in which he operates. And Bayern Munich, and if you think about the coaches who have cycled through the club since Flick, so Hulin Nagelsmann, Thomas Tuchel, there are some incredibly impressive minds here. And yet, for different reasons, they floundered.

15:39They've had difficulties with the politics, the media, being too forthright, Not really understanding, for instance, and this was Thomas Tuchel's issue, not really understanding that you can't muscle the club. You can't build it around your own image. You're an employee and you have to adapt to it. It's a massive German institution. It's globally a huge club. And you have to understand your role. And you have to understand your role in different ways. So as it relates to the elders, Uli Hunnis and Karl-Heinz Rümenegger, who have this very nebulous function at the club as being kind of grandees, but with a lot of agency.

16:15That includes the executive structure as it is, Max Ebel, Christoph Freund. And then the media who, let's be honest, I can say this is a member of the media, bad news stories about Bayern Munich drive traffic. It's part of modern media life. And so for Vincent Kompany, he could have expected when he came in, any misstep he made was going to be jumped on. and it's remarkable. We're nearly two years in now. I can't think of any. He's been pitch perfect in everything that he's done, especially with his communication too. How big a blow would it be for him then if he doesn't get this team to the Champions League final and doesn't win it?

16:53Really hard to say. It's a very, very good question, Gabby, because it's, on the one hand, as time has gone on, particularly after that Real Madrid tie where it's one of the great two-leggers games, We thought it was until this came on. I was asked by one of my editors this morning, after last night, was that the best game you've been to? And I was like, well, it's been a couple of weeks since the Real Madrid game, so I'm not sure I'm ready emotionally for that conversation. I think it's a blow because it's an opportunity. And I think a lot of this revolves around Harry Kane because Kane, to me, is playing some of the best football of his career.

17:29And so for these players to be gathered and orbiting around him at this moment, clearly the stars were aligned in a way in which that should allow you to at least challenge for the Champions League in a way that a player who's already in his 30s who's played a lot of football what's he going to look like in a year I don't know I mean Kane is a an ultimate professional I'm sure he'll be fine but um it would be a missed opportunity I don't think anybody would think badly of Vincent Kompany for that but it's a the window is open Gabby is probably how I put it some individual performances last well so many individual performances last night kind of would on any other night, two of them would be a gift.

18:03And there were so many across the park. And obviously, because of their heritage, there was a lot of interest in our studio in the performances of Michael Elisae and Jamal Musiala as well, because, you know, in another time, that would be some forward line for England, wouldn't it? And is that Vincent Company? Has he developed him further? Because, I mean, this is a guy who obviously didn't play age group, underage group for England, and didn't have those opportunities early on, got released from lots of academies, went through Reading, you know, so he's not had the orthodox journey that a lot of those top footballers had.

18:35So when he gets to a club like Bayern Munich, how much is there still to be developed and who's doing that? Yeah, I would kind of apportion credit out across the coaching staff as a whole. So, yes, Vincent Kompany, you've got some very smart minds in that coaching group too. So, Renny Maric is a name most people have heard who kind of came up as a blogger, actually, before catching on in professional football and becoming one of the most respected tacticians, certainly in German football. Aaron Danks, who was previously Michael Carrick's assistant. I think he was Stephen Charles' assistant at Aston Villa too.

19:06He was on the touchline last night. So this is a really fertile environment. Also, you are playing with some of the most talented players in Europe. You mentioned Moussiala, wonderful footballer. Kingsley Coman was there. Leroy Sane was there. You had some great role models. I mean, who better to learn from in your first year than Thomas Muller in terms of what it takes to exist at this level. Muller is, I mean, I spent some time with Muller. Muller is exactly the character he is on television. And so I think you put all of these things together. And then for someone like Elise, I think there's a dose of magic and self-belief and emotional resilience in there.

19:44Because when he got there, I remember talking to kind of some of my friends in the German media saying, this guy is mustard, absolutely brilliant player. And they're like, whatever, like he's played for Crystal Palace and I was like no but there was a question they had a point because how do you transition from being largely a counter-attacking player to being a front foot player um under one of the brightest spotlights in European football because playing for Bayern Munich is not enough to win like you can still get criticized even when you win three or four nil that that's just part of life and yet um between his technical evolution and I'm with you Gabby I think I hate to say this to the Palace fans, he is a better player than the one who left England.

20:22But to see that happen and to see him cope with his rising stardom at the same time, it takes not only a special player to do that, I think it's a special human being. And he's coped with it extremely well. And every time, honestly, every time I watch him, he gets a little bit better or he does something that I haven't seen. It's just ridiculous. Well, the numbers generally for Bayern this season are off the scale. Before we let you go, I don't actually know what company's contract situation is at the end of this season. Are there concerns at Bayern on what happens at Manchester City? I don't think so.

21:02None that I'm aware of. He signed a contract extension last year, which he thoroughly deserved. I don't think, I mean, obviously Manchester City is a worry for pretty much every club employing a major manager around the world. but I think there's a recognition too that to walk away from this situation is to walk away from an awful lot you've got the team as it is and then you've got some guys coming up and growing so Alex Pavlovich who played last night Leonard Karl who is the great hope for German football over the next decade he's going to progress as a player you'd imagine a few other guys that most people wouldn't have heard of Wisdom Mike, another super talented attacker and then you've got the other factor which is Bayern as an institution, as a size of a club And then, you know, you're living in Bavaria, which is a pretty hard part of the world to leave behind.

21:50And then lastly, you know, you've got a couple of players there who are really in sweet spots. Kane playing brilliantly. Luis Diaz playing as well as I've ever seen him play. Yoso Kimmich having a bit of a revival. Diet McInerney, who is a real testament to Vincent Kompany's coaching work. He's become an infinitely better player over the last two years. He's in his prime. So there's a lot to walk away from. and I think it's fair to sort of... There's a wider discussion to be had about who takes over at Manchester City but do you think it's akin to comparing kind of whoever took over from Alex Ferguson probably wasn't going to have a great time and actually you maybe want the job second you don't want the job first?

22:28I think there absolutely is and particularly if you are Vincent Kompany who doesn't have to prove himself and I don't mean this in a sort of disrespectful way to David Moyes but David Moyes would have fell to Everton waiting for the big job the top six opportunity and Vincent Kompany doesn't have that and I think following Guardiola and you know that squad has been refreshed to go again it would be, I know he has the romantic pull of City and Manchester and so on and so forth but I think it would be very hard to walk away from what he's got There's one little extra factor here and I think it's worth remembering what Kompany inherited when he came to Bayern and that was a club whose nose was pointing downwards, the Tucheliri was not happy, it was characterised by arguments about transfer policy sort of rocks with senior members of the community, Oli Hoeneß, of course.

23:19He and Oli Hoeneß had a sort of a six-month row through the local newspapers. So the company comes into a situation where morale is very low, where the time is ripe for reinvention, and when people are a little bit more receptive to ideas. I mean, there are a lot of egos in the dressing inherited, but not quite as many as there would be, say, at somewhere like Manchester City, should they, I don't know, win a double this season, win the Premier League, or it's a different environment. And I think he's done brilliantly and this is not to take anything at all away from him, but he came to Bayern Munich at exactly the right time.

23:53Seb, thank you very much. My pleasure. So a big thanks to Seb, but I also managed to catch up with Joe Hart for an insight into company's character to find out if even after all this success, the bright lights of the Premier League and a chance to return to Manchester City would be too hard for him to ignore.

24:17Joe, welcome to The Sports Agents. Thanks for coming on. Welcome. Thanks for having me. So we want to talk to you about Vincent Company. And you played together for 231 games. I don't know if you know the exact number. You won five trophies together, arrived within a couple of years of that whole kind of dynamic where this was a club that was almost a phoenix rising from the ashes and growing into something big and special. So I imagine him being the defender and with his leadership qualities in the club and your position on the pitch, you had quite a lot to do with each other. Yeah. Vinny came in, obviously everyone knows his character now, but we didn't know his character when we signed him.

24:56Mark Hughes signed him. I think he actually signed him as a holding midfielder, which is laughable now. But Vinny, for all the toughness of him, he's actually, you know, he's a skillful player and he wanted to establish himself and bring that self but we just couldn't believe his age when he came through the door he was so much more mature looking for different things in life than we were looking for at that time with very similar ages well I think Vinny's a year older than me and we just wanted to play football to the highest level we could and have a great time whereas Vinny was very much just wanted to play football at the highest level everything he wanted to do was at the highest level off the pitch I think we'd a lot of the well I'd say 99 % of our squads were footballers that was all we were that was all we wanted to do but Vinny wanted everything you know and that was quite alien in the dressing room he was still studying uh still had he could he could communicate with everyone right away from like a young fan all the way through to the seniors at the club and he wanted to stick his nose into those situations uh like I say none of us wanted to do that which was fine everyone's free to do it you know run their own race so he was kind of into the extracurricular stuff loved it Vinny now now I'm more grown up and understand people like Vincent like I didn't understand him at the time I didn't mind it you know Vinny he was very strong and you were he looked very happy but now I just realized that he just always wanted more like he's never never enough and that character is just key anyone successful especially in the role that he's in now you'd imagine that they would be very much Vincent Companies in their day.

26:28Do you think without him, the speed of change and the success would have been different? I'm not good at answering that, Gaby, to be honest, because Vinny's special, no doubt about it, but he's not that special. You know, there's other versions. I mean that about anyone. I wouldn't always back any situation. If someone wasn't there, don't be wrong, he played a vital role. I'll never, ever take that away. But same, you know, same in my position. If someone of my abilities was not there or me, I wasn't there. I still feel that Man City would have progressed. You just find a way when you really want to and that club really wanted to.

27:03But it's no doubt that they unearthed an absolute gem in Vincent, not only as a player, but as a figure for Manchester City. Was it clear then from all those things you've said that this was not somebody who was going to walk away from football at the end of his playing days? I genuinely thought Vinny would be a world leader in some way. I suppose he is. He's definitely right up there. He's obviously got a lot more yards to walk. I'd imagine if you ever speak to him that he'll say that. He'll say he's nowhere in his managerial game right now. But I've always admired Vincent because he's someone that I wouldn't fancy fighting him.

27:40I wouldn't fancy arguing with him. I wouldn't fancy... There's not many ways you could beat him. And that's kind of how I, in my kind of footballing world, how I'd size people up. Can I beat them with banter? Can I beat them with intelligence? Can I beat them physically? There's no way of getting at him. And he seems to enjoy every single battle. Like I always said, Vinny could play, obviously play at the highest level Champions League, but stick him in League Two. Trust me, he'd be absolutely fine. He'd love having it out in a, you know, away at Shrewsbury Town, for example. So everything that I've ever heard and read about Bayern Munich, it's a very different club, you know, to many in the world, let alone, you know, in the Premier League, in terms of the elders and the influence they have.

28:24And obviously we know in the Bundesliga as well, there's this kind of cooperative and the fans are absolutely huge. Somebody described to me the other day, actually Seb, who's on this podcast, described it as if you imagine the fans of Arsenal, Manchester City, Manchester United and Liverpool, and then kind of collectively put that together, that passion and that kind of ownership feel that they have for the club. So you have to be some kind of character to go into a club like that, don't you? And be adopted the way he has and loved. A hundred percent. But like I said, I don't think there's many rooms that Vinny couldn't walk into and that'd be the case.