Breaking down the 24-team CFP, and Noah Eagle rises to the occasion.

0:00Coming up on the pod, the CFP and ESPN lock down a 2014 playoff. Noah Eagle fills in for Mike Tirico and Matt Hong chats about all the latest at USA Sports.

0:19Welcome into the SBJ Sports Media Podcast. I'm Austin Karp. And I'm Josh Carpenter. Josh, just how excited are you for the new Diana Rossini show? Yeah, it's an interesting one, Austin. I won't say I'm excited. I am very interested to see just like what she says on those first few shows. But I'll say, you know, we've had this discussion internally here today and yesterday. Since this was announced, the glut of former hosts, analysts to kind of start their own podcast, their own show, and how many of them actually cut through. Very few. You look at Rich Eisen, Dan Patrick, they have kind of their own linear distributed shows that are enjoyable, that people watch.

1:00Diana Rossini, mostly polarizing because of this scandal that happened. I don't know how many people in the general sports consciousness were that aware of her. She was a good reporter. This scandal has definitely elevated her platform. People will be interested in the first few shows. This is a once-a-week show, so people will watch and pay attention to what happens over the first few weeks of this show. there'll be a lot of aggregated headlines about diana rossini comes clean or diana rossini doesn't say anything about it's got a page six uh 10 yeah yeah uh but i think beyond that like i just don't know that it's going to cut through uh the wider sport there's so much noise especially for the nfl like there are a lot of shows people have a lot of established habits on how they get their nfl information in particular yeah i can barely get through the podcasts that i want to listen to now i mean i know there are a lot of hours in the day but there are like you said a lot of podcasts out there.

1:49Will I be listening to this? No. That's the honest answer. When this news all broke with Diana and Vrabel, I thought she was still at ESPN. I didn't even know she was at the Athletics. So like you said, she wasn't one of the most popular NFL writers out there. But I'm not really sure what I need to tune into this show for. The thing that will make you tune into this show is if she breaks news on the show. That's what drives viewers and interest is breaking news. A lot of times at Austin, some big news we have this week, the college football playoff officially expanded to 24 teams. ESPN is the rights holder there.

2:21I think everyone knows that. Let's dig in here. What are some other things we need to know about this expanded CFP that's coming next year? Josh, I don't know about you, but I got texts from friends outside of the business. They're like, oh, make sure you tell ESPN thanks for the expanded playoff that we didn't want. It wasn't ESPN that really wanted this. It was the schools that are - Who did want it? Let's get into that. It's the schools that are paying. We've talked about it on this podcast. All those schools investing in their rosters. If we're putting in this much money, we want more access even beyond 12.

2:52We've only had 12 for a couple of years now. And that's why even so soon, they're like, no, no, we need more access and we need it now. This isn't expanding access for the group of six. That's still just going to be one team. What this is going to turn into is six, seven teams apiece, whatever it is, from the Big Ten and from the SEC. Ten SEC teams. Potentially, on a year like this, look how many teams are going to have two and three losses where there's so much parity. Again, this is not going to start until next season. You're going to see eight first-round games, eight second-round games. Then you've got your four quarters and two semis, and ESPN's owning all of this.

3:23Right now, ESPN just has 11 games, and they've already sub-licensed some of those out to TNT. That deal only goes through the 2028-2029 CFP season. So two full rotations. They now have more opportunities to sub-license. Who's that going to go to? Who does it make sense for? TNT. Remember, now part of Skydance. Skydance has a lot of money they need to start saving, not necessarily spending. Now, this is important inventory. So if they're going to do more on the CFP sub-license, you got to start looking down the line. What's the trickle-down effect? Who are they going to get rid of? Are they going to renew for the NHL?

3:58Are they going to renew for Major League Baseball? There are a lot of questions about those properties in particular and their future on TNT Sports. But getting back to this CFP, a lot of those early round games, they're guaranteed, some of them, at least three in each round, to be on ABC. Once again, showing that power of broadcast TV. This isn't going over completely to cable or anything like that. Big broadcast TV presence and not that much more of an uptick for ESPN and paying here, right? They were paying around$1.3 billion a year for the CFP. Now they're going to be paying an extra $340 million or so over that five-year period.

4:32Plus, they're getting some money back because they don't have those conference championship games anymore. And these games better draw an audience because those conference title games that were lost by Fox and by ESPN networks, some of those biggest ones, 18 million viewers, 16 million, 16 million viewers. That's a big audiences that are not going to be there. That's what I was going to ask you about next. We've lost these conference championships. I know they've become a little, a little watered down the last few years. There's still a lot of history around Big Ten championship game in Indianapolis, SEC championship in Atlanta.

5:03So is there a chance that some of these early round playoff games could potentially outdraw all those conference champions. I don't see it. It's all going to be matchup dependent. You give me Notre Dame against pretty much anybody. I mean, that's a strong draw. That'll be in the best window possible. What if you get Alabama Augur? What if you get Alabama LSU? There are some potential for big matchups and matchups that you don't necessarily see. In a campus setting that you wouldn't get. And I'm glad that the first two rounds are staying on campus. That does create more of that college football atmosphere.

5:31I think the quarterfinals should even be considered for being on campus. That's how important that is. Heck, the NFC and AFC championships are still at home at the NFL level. But I know they're trying to keep a lot of these bowls involved. Let's talk broader about the bowl season, the broader bowl season. Do you think that goes anywhere? Do you think we still see what that looks like currently? Well, it's not going to, I don't think it's going to exist like it currently does. You think we're going to lose some games off of the bowl season? You have to lose some games because once you start adding in eight teams from the SEC and seven teams from the Big Ten, that's leaving some of these bowls.

6:05You're getting into five-win teams there. Right, right. So I certainly don't see the bowl season sticking around. It kind of stinks. It stinks for the history of the sport, for the interest in the sport, but also for ESPN. Even some of these small bowls, whether it was the Bahamas Bowl or the you-name-whatever bowl, those were big draws during that Christmas time, that holiday season. You put that on in the afternoon or at night when everybody's on winter break or maybe they're at a relative's house for the holidays or whatever. People will tune in and watch whatever football you give them. So ESPN, if they're not going to be the Bulls, what are they going to be airing then in those windows during the holiday season?

6:38Is it more basketball? Is this an opportunity for holiday college basketball, perhaps? ESPN already owns a bunch of those multi-team events. Could that be something that takes place if, if, down the road, we lose some of those Bull games? All right, Josh, let's move over to some NFL. Noah Eagle had a very busy weekend because he had the fill-in for Mike Tirico, who got sick. He had a fill-in on Sunday Night Football. What did you think about the move? It's an easy move for NBC. Certainly, I want to wish Mike Tirico the best. I mean, kind of rotten luck, honestly. Oh, your 300th game. Headed for his 300th NFL broadcast on Sunday night between the Bears and the Bucs.

7:13And obviously, he said he has a health issue that kind of caused him to step aside for that game. Yeah, Austin, certainly wish Mike Tirico well. Pretty rotten luck to be headed for his 300th NFL broadcast on Sunday night between the Bears and the Bucs. So, hate to see that. ready to see him back soon. But yeah, it just shows how good Noah Eagle is at just 29, turns 30 next month. Pretty easy move, I would say. I shouldn't downpost this at all. Not an easy move. He was calling the Notre Dame-Miami game in South Bend on Saturday night, but is able to just quickly make the transition over and seamlessly do that Sunday night football game.

7:48Again, just shows how good he is, shows his family lineage with his dad, Ian, really just is a sign of, we've known this for a while but again another example of no eagles going to be in our lives for the next three decades four decades and really uh is on a runway at this point in my mind to just be one of these iconic broadcasters in the sport i don't know how how you feel about him but to me it kind of him and i and eagle are setting up as one of these kind of legendary father-son broadcasts look at marv albert and kenny albert i don't know if i'd put noah and i in on the same level as a Joe and Jack Buck.

8:26But, I mean, man, they're up there. And Ian's still pretty young, too. He's a spring chicken. He's got a lot of left homeless tires. Noah's going to be around for a while. Where do you rank those guys? Ian's going to be doing some of those Amazon Duke fake games. So he's doing college basketball on Amazon. He'll be doing that with Stan Van Gundy and John Wall. That's going to be an interesting booth. I want to see how John Wall does because I haven't caught a lot of his stuff on Amazon. NBA. Noah Eagle, I think he really has cemented himself as a number two at NBC in terms of play-by-play. voices and like you said so quickly and you want to say wow NBC kind of got lucky with this one didn't get lucky let's give credit to NBC for spotting the talent early early getting him that national exposure on so many sports and let him run with it and he did and he's taken advantage of the opportunity so kudos to the folks at NBC Sports for spotting it and identifying that talent and giving him the runway to do what he can do and be a national voice so quickly in his career yeah I mean it feels like he's been around doing big games for a decade already and As we mentioned, he's got decades left kind of in our lives on big, big sports telecasts.

9:29Speaking of sports telecasts, also on our guest on the pod this week is Matt Hong, the president of USA Sports. A lot to discuss around the WNBA, golf, soccer, and much more. Let's go to Matt Hong. Well, Versant and USA Sports are fresh off a seven-game WNBA finals and the NASCAR Cup Series playoffs. But plenty lies ahead with college football, the Premier League, Bundesliga and golf, not to mention decisions on a number of potential new partners out there on the league side. Let's get some insight, though, into that company's sports strategy this week. I'm talking about USA Sports President Matt Hong.

10:05He's our guest this week. Matt, welcome into the SPJ Sports Media Pod. Great to see you, Austin. All right. I got to get to the big question for you. A proud NC State alum, go Wolf Puppies. So, Phillip Rivers, next head coach. How are you feeling about that sort of hire potentially? I feel like it's a bit of a loaded question from a Georgia Tech alum, but I'm excited about it. I think he'll inspire the fan base. He'll inspire in this era folks to open up their wallets. I think he'll have to hire good coordinators, which I'm confident he'll do. So I'm the furthest from being objective about it, but I'm super happy with Philip coming home.

10:43I'm pretty sure Phillip had Georgia Tech's number each and every time they played from when he was a student. I mean, that guy was unbelievable in the field in Raleigh. So I hope that works out for you guys. Big for the ACC would be big for everybody. So I'm happy to have Phillip Rivers if that works out. But let's get to the business of USA Sports. I'm talking about one of the bigger sporting events that the company has had in its existence coming off of that first ever WNBA Finals Game 7. So in just year one of this media rights deal, what did that first WNBA season teach USA Sports? Yeah, WNBA is a special property for us because it ties to our first year as USA Sports.

11:22So it was actually this week last year, so happy birthday to USA Sports, that we officially rolled out the new name. And WNBA is the property that, along with Love Volleyball and then Pac-12 Football, which we've started, You know, those are all first year properties for us, as opposed to, say, the properties that we brought over from NBC, like a Premier League or like a PGA Tour or like a NASCAR. So WNBA in the first year of that deal, first year of that 11 year partnership, timed well for us. we had you know one of the things that that we talked about i think you and i talked about austin that we were going to promise our viewers and our distribution partners and our advertisers was that at usa sports we were going to be on the front foot we were going to be aggressive as it relates to new partnerships we were going to be aggressive as it relates to innovative new programming we were going to invest in the quality of our talent and our production and i think all of that you know, really was on display for us with WNBA.

12:25You know, a little bit of luck involved in terms of getting seven games in the finals. We had five of those seven finals games. Our production and our talent was on full display, award-winning studio talent, game talent that was voted by fans to be the best, which was great for year one. And then just some record-setting numbers along the way for the entire WNBA finals and then Game 7 in particular being the most watched WNBA playoff game in history. So it all really came together for us well for WNBA and I think showcased some of the promises that we made to the industry, to our fans, to our partners that we would do in our first year as USA Sports.

13:10You know, that Game 7 in particular, I have to imagine, that was a hot ticket. Your phone was probably blowing up from partners and everybody off and down trying to get to that first WNBA game seven. Whether it was the four games that were at Golden State or the three games in a city that you and I have both spent some time in in Atlanta, I was only able to, based on schedules, go to one of the games. And it was an environment that was rare in terms of how alive the in-game experience was. So whether that's a WNBA game or an NBA game or a football game, I mean, it was a unique experience, I think, in both of those cities with two really excited, deservedly excited fan bases.

13:55Yeah, that looked great. Fantastic way to finish the season. And like you said, year one of an 11-year association with the WNBA. We're also fresh off the NASCAR season. USA Network had seven of those 10 playoff races and produces NBC's three races that airs at the end of that season. Numbers do seem to be a little lower in year two of that properties deal, but it runs through 2031. lots of time left there. So what are you and NASCAR doing to try to turn this around, get some better numbers there for next season? So we at USA Sports have a 14 race package. 10 of those 14 races are the rebranded Chase 14 Cup Series races.

14:35And then four of those we air per tradition on NBC. Our USA numbers were off a smidge year over year, about 4 % down year over year, it's really been a couple of things. One is like a lot of properties, there's a little bit, you know, maybe a percentage point or two that right now is Nielsen adjusts or tweaks methodology, potentially a point or two that goes toward methodology. And then certainly if you look at our numbers prior to the football season, we were up year over year. Everyone in the fall has to figure out how to compete with or against football. So I think with some slight programming tweaks that we've already talked to NASCAR about.

15:16And NASCAR has been a great partner historically and in this year in terms of what things can we do to make our lives a little bit easier, but also to preserve or even improve the fan experience vis-a-vis some of the big numbers that football has had, both college and NFL has had this season to date. I think a few things that we can do going into next season that, as you note, can make things a little bit more accessible and help our numbers. I think something that does get lost, and like you said, NASCAR competing against football in the fall, but it gets lost that these NASCAR numbers are still good.

15:52They're still very competitive in the landscape, especially with the playoff numbers, bigger than what a lot of people can probably think for some of these other sports, definitely bigger than when F1 was still on ESPN. So that's something to also consider that NASCAR is still incredibly strong in the motorsports space, especially here in the United States. Yeah, I mean, that's a great point, Austin. And we get hung up and we're the first to do so at looking at things year over year. Are we up 5 %? Are we down 4 %? But the base that we're taking into each year is still quite large. It's a very valuable property in terms of our fans.

16:31It's a very valuable property for our sponsors. It's sort of at the top of the list, maybe tied with some other properties, but certainly at the top of the list in any conversation we have with our pay TV distribution partners. So we would love to see it go up year over year, and we'll work to get it up next year over this year. We do benefit from the fact that these are large numbers that we're starting with and a large base of fans that we have for NASCAR. Well, soccer is another sport that USA Sports has leaned into. Like you said, you brought over a package of Premier League games there that's on USA, some games on CNBC, but you're also in year one of this deal for the Bundesliga.

17:10And you added that to your streaming on the Fandango property. That's part of Versant as well. So why is soccer a value add for USA Sports? Yeah, so before I get to that, you bring up a good point about CNBC. So one of the things that we are doing is we are expanding the number of platforms that we have at Versant on which we have live sports. So Bundesliga on Fandango, which we'll talk about in a second. But we tried something in our first year with WNBA coverage, which was we put the second half of any doubleheader for a regular season WNBA game, not only on USA Network, but on CNBC. And then we also simulcast all of the playoff games and all of the finals games for WNBA that were on USA Network.

17:58And net-net for that trial, we were able to bring over 1 million unduplicated unique viewers to the WNBA from CNBC. So that was wildly successful. And to your point, we've had a Bundesliga match on CNBC already as part of that new relationship. And then we occasionally have Premier League matches on CNBC as well, alongside the main network of USA Network. So European football, historically for us, which has been Premier League, new this year with Bundesliga is another just large and very established property for us. Large fan base, important to our distributors. Premier League viewership this year has been great.

18:46It's frankly the best season thus far. Our best start to a Premier League season on USA Network in our history. The demo is great. Our 18 to 34 demo is materially up year over year. We did benefit, we think, from the tailwinds relative to World Cup. So thankful for the popularity of World Cup. But I think we've done a good job of leveraging that popularity across all demos and then the 18 to 34 demo in particular. And then Bundesliga in its first year, we've got over 300 matches, 30 on USA Network, 279 $179 on the relaunched Fandango Avod property, also doing well on both platforms with the linear portion being up versus pay TV last year by a healthy amount as well.

19:34Do you see USA Sports getting more interested in soccer? There's going to be a few leagues that have rights coming up here in the next couple of years. We've been on the front foot this first year. We've added a lot of new properties. We've extended or renewed some existing properties. seven all told in this first year between USGA and WNBA and the Ryder Cup and Bundesliga, Pac-12. We'll continue to be on the front foot. I think from here, we'll just have to make sure that anything that we add makes sense for our viewers, makes sense for our distributors. So whether that's more European football, whether that's some other properties that will come to market here soon, will continue to be on the front foot, combining that with corporate discipline and our versant priority of shareholder return.

20:22Let's talk a bit about American football. You mentioned the Pac-12. You're the home for a lot of these Pac-12 games now. You've got now two Boise State games coming up here in subsequent weekends. And with the Broncos now sitting atop that group of six mix for a college football playoff spot, based on the most recent rankings, it feels like you guys have kind of stumbled into what are essentially early playoff games here, having such a marquee franchise there. But, you know, how is that and how is everything with the Pac-12 and college football working out for USA Sports? Yeah, so Pac-12 is another unique property for us because in our first year as USA Sports, it's the Pac-12's first year as the rebooted Pac-12.

21:01So when we first sat down a little over a year ago with Teresa Gould and team to talk about a potential partnership, I think we both left that initial meeting just feeling like our ethos was similar. They were looking to rename themselves and rebrand themselves. And I think at the time they only had eight of their nine, now current nine schools. And so, you know, they, whether you call them a challenger brand, I think Teresa and team definitely felt like they had something to prove. And, you know, we, when we first had that first meeting with them, we were not even USA Sports. We might have only been a couple weeks into calling ourselves corporately versant.

21:39We felt like we were going to launch a new name and a new brand and we would have something to prove. So the cultures and the ethos of USA Sports and Pac-12 were pretty similar. Whether it's been programming genius, which I do think our programming team are geniuses, or a little bit of luck, which is always what you want and need in sports. On your point about this game that we have Saturday on USA Network, Boise State and Oregon State and the fact that it'll be a college game day game. The game day crew will be in Boise for that game. We've got it on primetime USA Network. We're happy about it.

22:17And we're really happy with the numbers and the partnership and the dedication to quality that the Pac-12 has had in this first year of our football contract. Another channel in the Versim portfolio, in the USA Sports portfolio, that's Golf Channel. How are you measuring that channel's health now? Is it traditional ratings, affiliate fees, advertising, Golf Now transactions, Golf Pass subscriptions, or the audience across just all of those businesses? Yeah, you pretty much hit the main metrics or the main variables in the calculus, Austin, that we look at that channel and how we measure the success of Golf Channel.

22:53We always say that Golf Channel, from a viewership perspective, reaches all of the right viewers in the golf ecosystem. So, you know, the number, the viewership numbers continue to be just fine. But the uniqueness of the viewers of Golf Channel are really what we rely on. It's all the decision makers in the industry. It's the right fans. It's the fans with the household incomes that we desire, that our advertisers desire, that our distribution partners desire. So not all viewership is created equal and we would contend and I think the data backs up the fact that our viewership on Golf Channel are the desired viewers from a demo and from a spend perspective.

23:40That's why, as you note, whether it's Golf Now, whether it's Golf Pass, whether it's our newest family member, the acquisition of which closed a couple months ago in full swing, the simulator company, those are the right synergistic fan businesses or consumer businesses for us to have that we can integrate into Golf Channel, that we can promote on Golf Channel. So that is a large, a big metric of success for us as well, which is Golf Channel and our larger golf media properties, including USGA and RNA on USA Network, that those media properties are half of the overall golf vertical, which is a huge priority for us corporately at Versa.

24:23Specifically on the PGA Tour side, how much maneuvering can we expect from Golf Channel around the tour's rights ahead of that change in the 2028 schedule? Will we see the championship and challenger series on Golf Channel? How does Golf Channel weigh out which is more valuable inventory at this time? For sure, you'll continue to see whether it's the entirety or the vast majority of our tour programming on Golf Channel. Those properties, the PGA Tour and Golf Channel, are just synonymous with one another. Their success is tied to one another. Fans expect to see PGA Tour programming on Golf Channel.

25:01At the same time, there will have to be some maneuvering because, as you know, and as I think most of our viewers know, So the dynamics of the championship series and the challenger series, there will be more days and more weekends than in the past where there will be programming from both of those or, you know, tournament hours from both the championship series event and a challenger series event that are occurring or happening at the same time. So that's where the maneuvering will come into play. um you know we'll have to get creative in terms of how we clear all of the programming but it's safe to say that the majority or vast majority of all of the pga tour programming will continue to be on on golf channel for us going forward save for how we figure out how to how to program you know when a day or a weekend has both a championship series event and a challenger series event all right just a couple more for you matt here one you continue to share or you continue to have all of your events for USA Sports.

25:59They're streamed on, or some are on Fandango, but a lot is still on Peacock. How has that relationship continued to go with NBC Sports? And do you see any of your properties potentially being streaming free agents at some point? Yeah. So really the, you know, the shortest version of our relationship with NBC Sports, which is great. I mean, we come from the same family. We are constantly talking to our colleagues and friends at NBC Sports. We share properties, whether it's the PGA Tour or Premier League, USGA properties. Those are now contractually shared as opposed to being part of the same, you know, having the same parent in Comcast.

26:37But it will be a, you know, I can't even imagine the first year where we won't continue to contractually partner with the folks at NBC Sports. You know, as it relates to Peacock or, frankly, Olympics programming on USA Network and CNBC, or the four NASCAR races on NBC. Really what that is, is fulfilling a promise we made to both fans and to our league partners, that anywhere you or a fan went to find certain programming prior to the corporate spinoff, they would continue to look to and could find that same programming on those same networks post-spinoff, independent of whether that network or that digital platform, in the case of Peacock, is owned by Versant and USA Sports or NBCUniversal.

27:28And so that's really the easiest way to look at why there's still Olympics on USA and CNBC, despite Olympics being a property that's owned by NBCUniversal, why there's still four NASCAR races on NBC, despite NASCAR being exclusively a Versant and USA Sports League property, and then why certain things are both places. Really, again, it's just that promise that we made to viewers and to all of our various partners that pre-spin, post-spin, wherever you could expect to find our top shelf programming, you'd find it post-spin. Well, Matt, glad we were able to talk on, yes, this one-year anniversary of that rebrand to USA Sports for the whole division.

28:15Big game Saturday on USA. CFP implications, Oregon State and Boise State. And like you said, game day is going to be there. Give you some added exposure for that. Matt Hong, the president of USA Sports. Really appreciate you jumping on this week. Great to see you, Austin. Thanks for everything. Another big shout out to Matt for coming on the pod this week. We're actually going to hear from his boss, Mark Lazarus, at SBJ's Media Innovators event on Tuesday, along with Han Schroeder from the NFL. I'm going to be doing the one-on-one with Jimmy Pataro from ESPN. we're going to be looking at you know a wall street view of media i got we have jessica reef erlich from bank of america peter subpoena from wolf research two of the leading media analysts out there and of course bobby flay i don't know how to cook for shit so i'm hoping that he gives me some advice there in the green i am a little bit more of a connoisseur in the kitchen so i will be paying attention to what bobby flay says we've been a long my household has been a long time kind of viewer of his i'll also be talking to david proper and steve mayor from the nhl kind of about that league's new distribution plan heading forward.

29:16So looking forward to getting up to New York next week. Well, before we get to the event next week, we have another interview this week that you did with Scott Carmichael of Prodigy Search and his new book. We welcome Scott Carmichael, the founder and CEO of Prodigy Search. Scott, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Good to be here. I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, for sure, Scott. And it's a big week for you with the release of your new book, from ball boy to boss. It seems like there's some word play going on there in that title. Scott, tell us a little bit about your new book that's out this week.

29:49Well, I've been fortunate, Josh, to be around the business for, gosh, almost 50 years, a little over 50 years. Started out as an 11-year-old ball boy. Built my career and got my foot in the door and took advantage of opportunities. And one thing led to another, L.A. Kings, L.A. Lakers, onto the National Hockey League and launched Prodigy in 2007. So I've been really blessed with a great career. Scott, who do you hope to reach with this book and kind of walk us through a little bit the decision-making process behind why you decided to go this route? You know, it's a part memoir and part business book.

30:23When I was talking to the publisher, who I know SVJ has a relationship with Amplify, and it emanated just throughout the number of years in terms of talking about stories and different anecdotes that have been around. And one thing led to another in terms of it became a passion project and talked to a few people and got encouraged to write it. And really what it did was it provided me an opportunity to, again, tell some memoirs. I've been fortunate to be around a number of different celebrities and athletes and all. but also in terms of where did I learn some lessons and where can I share some of those lessons in terms of relationships, importance of relationships, the networking.

31:08So it really kind of took the stories, blended it into where those become business lessons and opportunities. Scott, what's your favorite lesson from this book that readers might take away? It really comes down to, in fact, I just finished a conversation with a local school and they're talking to a group of students and not to be redundant or too simplistic because I think it's thrown around a lot. But, you know, it's about relationships and networking. And if I take away any of what I've learned and the opportunities I was afforded and the people I met and where I was able to over almost 40 years when I got to the point of launching Prodigy Search in 2007, it was taking those relationships, you know, using that network, which we all have, but I was fortunate to be around a lot of people, a lot of great connections, a lot of people moved around the business.

32:00And so the biggest takeaway, I think, was just the ability and the humility behind it of all the relationships I was able to foster, continue to foster in the business and turn that into how that is a great learning lesson within the industry, not only for young professionals, but also I think sharing that with some of the people that I've crossed paths with over the years as well. And I got to hear, Scott, I asked for your favorite lesson from the book. Let's hear your favorite anecdote from your time as a Lakers ball boy. You know, was it like, I'm from Gastonia, North Carolina, James Worthy's hometown.

32:37He was on those Lakers teams. Give me a moment from your time as a Lakers ball boy that's always going to stay with you. Well, there's two quick stories, if I may. As a Laker ball boy, I was assigned for whatever reason, for seven years of working the visitors team. So I was in the visitors locker room. I was on the visitors bench. I was literally sitting on the floor, which they don't do anymore. But right behind me, literally, for the entire seven years was Jeff Nicholson. And so as I sat on the visitors bench in the courtside seats, I was Nicholson and Lou Adler, a very famous record producer.

33:11and one game, and I was, I think I might have been 13 years old at the time, 14 years old at the time. I spilled a drink on a Gatorade on Nicholson's blue suede shoes. No lie, it was the blue suede shoes. And I got a look from Jack Nicholson that would, you know, that would kill. And he read me the riot act and I didn't know how to react. Fast forward, the next home game, you know, he comes back to his seats and he sees me and he gives me a hug and goes, He goes, hey, I'm sorry. It's all good. He goes, the shoe's cleaned up. So that was, you know, as a young kid, it was pretty cool. And the other one was, and I'll try to make this a short story if I may, but Jerry West, one of the things I talk about in the book was how he was so grossly mischaracterized in the HBO series that, you know, many people watched.

34:01And, you know, the producers of the HBO series, Showtime, talked about, well, it was fictitious. It was Hollywood, et cetera, et cetera. And Jerry was so miscast there. As a ball boy in my second year, I was fortunate. The Lakers ran on what is still a record 33-game win streak. Still stands as the greatest win streak, and I don't know if it would ever be broken. And I wasn't a collector, per se. I was 12 years old. But I would occasionally ask the players for their shoes just because. Yeah, why not? Why not? And so I went up to Jerry West. I don't remember when it was exactly, but it might have been game 22 or 23.

34:40read. Not that I was looking at the games. It was just, and he said, look, I'm really, really superstitious. You know, I need to hang on to him. So, you know, I, I, I can't give him away. About a week after the, or so after the streak was ended, Jerry conducted me in the locker room, he goes, here, I promised you these. And he gave me the shoes he wore throughout the streak. And he didn't change them. Jerry was, if anybody read his book or knows him, amazing man, but, but dealt with a lot of demons. And he was very, but in addition to all that, he was very, very superstitious. And, uh, but he gave me the shoes.

35:14He remembered it. And then we carried on a relationship. When I went into Lakers and King's front office, he of course was there. He was very, very gracious and, and kind. So those are two quick, or maybe not so quick takeaways from the book that, uh, in the Volvo years that were very, very meaningful. Oh, that's great. Scott, where can, where can readers find your, find your book that's out this week? it officially released in November 10th. It is out on all the normal sites from Amazon to Barnes and Noble, the books a million, et cetera. I do have a website too, for the book called ball boys, the boss.com.

35:47If you went to that website, you can order it there as well. But if you go to Amazon, which is, you know, I think the predominantly the dominant leader, you can order it there. And hopefully people get a chance to read it and, and enjoy it and perhaps learn a few lessons and also enjoy some of the stories I was able to tell on the way. Yeah, I love it. Scott, really excited about the book, From Ball Boy to Boss. Thanks so much for the stories today, for joining us on the SBJ Sports Media Podcast. We look forward to talking to you soon. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure and an honor to be with you, Josh.

36:17I appreciate it. All right, before we wrap up the show, Josh, got to ask you, what do you got for the win for the weekend? Yeah, I'm going to go lighthearted here. For those who caught a little bit of the Panthers-Broncos game here in Charlotte, not that I'm a homer here. I was just watching this on NFL Redstone, but a Corgi got loose on the field during halftime. I've actually delayed the second half kickoff a little bit. He had like five or six handlers out there, and they couldn't tackle this guy. But love seeing Scott Hansen cut in, did a little play-by-play. It was really fun. You saw all these videos mocked up on social media, NFL films, music, dubbed over this Corgi running around on the field at Bank of America Stadium.

36:58Not quite. I think we needed Kevin Harlan on the call at some point. You know, we've seen him do such a great shot with those streakers and things of that nature on the field at big events over the years. Would love to have heard Kevin Harlan call that. But it was a pretty fun, lighthearted moment from the weekend. And I openly was tackling watching Scott Hansen call that on Sunday afternoon in Charlotte. Well, poor tackling seems to be a theme here at Bank of America Stadium all season, unfortunately. Without a doubt. Austin, who won the weekend for you? My win is coming out of the weekend, and it gets back to this ESPN CFP deal because I have two kind of co-winners here.

37:29And that is the Heisman Trophy ceremony being moved up a week. I love that move. And I love the fact that Army, Navy will not conflict with any of these new CFP games. Let's keep that game independent by itself. Give it the love that it deserves. That is a national treasure of a sporting event. I love the pomp and the circumstance and the pageantry, everything that that game brings. I've seen it live. It is just a tremendous event on TV. Something important. Heisman Trophy as well. I'm glad that those are going to continue to shine. Yeah, Army-Navy is a bucket list item for me. Certainly haven't made it happen yet, but my dad and I have talked for years about getting up there and seeing a game.

38:04So, you know, in all this age of change and college sports, it's nice to see a game so steeped in tradition to kind of keep that going and get its rightful place in the sports ecosystem every year. And on that note, that does it for this week's SBJ Sports Media Podcast. Thanks to our guests, Matt Hong of USA Sports and Scott Carmichael of Prodigy Search. Thanks, as always, to our production team of Chris Mason, Reginald Walker, and A.C. Wyatt. And finally, thank you for listening. Please make sure to like and subscribe to the pod wherever you get your podcasts. For Austin Carp, I'm Josh Carpenter.

38:38We'll talk to you all again next week.