The Spy Who Almost Stopped 9/11 | Enhanced Interrogation | 3

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0:22March 2002, CIA headquarters, Langley, Virginia. In a secure room deep in the building, CIA Chief George Tenet listens as he's briefed on a new Al-Qaeda plot. The detainee Abu Zubaydah has revealed an active plot to carry out simultaneous suicide bombings of nightclubs in Tel Aviv. Their stated goal is to kill approximately 200 people. Despite his past connections with Al-Qaeda, we judge this intelligence to be reliable. Can we stop it? Yes, the detainee has revealed intimate details about the plan. Working with our Israeli partners, we should be able to prevent this one. This is great. Tell our team there to keep the good work up and give them my personal thanks.

1:06The CIA officer briefing Tenet looks nervous. Tenet's known for his charisma and ability to project warmth, but also for his bluntness when things don't go his way. And he's about to hear something he won't like. Actually, sir, it's not our team. Tenet looks confused. Then whose team is it? It's an FBI agent doing the interrogation. Tenet's mood flips to rage.

1:34Ali Soufan:What's the FBI doing in the middle of our operation? Tell our people to get over to Thailand right away. This is a high-value detainee. He's the crossroads of multiple al-Qaeda operations. We need our people on the ground, not some cop who'll never see the bigger picture. He regains his composure a little. For all we know, Abu Zubaydah is feeding the FBI guy with baloney. He could be hiding something bigger. We need to get more out of him. The CIA officer braces himself once more. He has more bad news for his boss. Sir, that might not be possible. The latest report is that Abu Zubaydah's condition is now critical.

2:14Without hospital treatment, he'll die. But rather than erupting again, Tenet takes this in quietly and nods. He plays events out in his head. The legality of what the CIA is doing to detainees abroad isn't settled. Sending Abu Zubaydah to hospital could expose the CIA black side. It could also embarrass the Thai government and alert Al-Qaeda to where Zubaydah is. But the need for intelligence in the wider war on terror trumps all that. Tenets made up his mind. Him dying is unacceptable. Tell them. Death is not an option.

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3:44The Capital One Venture X business card. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com for details. I'm Raza Jafri, and this is The Spy Who, an Audible original. In the last episode, Al-Qaeda carried out the devastating 9-11 attacks on the U.S., killing almost 3 ,000 people, including Ali Safran's former boss, John O 'Neill. and wounding many thousands more. And the attacks might have been preventable if the CIA hadn't withheld information about the future hijackers from the FBI. Now, FBI agent Ali Sufan is in a secret CIA black site in Thailand, questioning Abu Zubaydah, the first high-profile terrorist captured since 9-11.

4:32But his injured detainee is close to death and is about to get stuck in the middle of an FBI-CIA turf war. This is episode three, Enhanced Interrogation.

4:50April 1st, 2002. Detention site Green, the CIA's secret prison in Thailand. FBI agent Ali Sufan looks at the prisoner he's supposed to be interrogating, Abu Zubaydah. He's not a member of al-Qaeda, but runs a jihadist training camp in Afghanistan and has helped the terrorist organization in the past. And he's dying. The gunshot wounds he sustained during capture have turned to sepsis. He's groggy and weak with fever, and the medics tending him are out of ways to stop the infection. He needs to go to the hospital. But how can they do that without exposing the CIA black site in Thailand? As the medics bathe Abu Zubaydah with wet towels to keep his temperature down, the CIA security chief proposes an idea.

5:43Now, this is a long shot. I'll take the longest shot you've got if it means keeping him alive, okay? How about we pretend to be soldiers? Suvane frowns, trying to work out where the CIA officer is going with this. And we pretend that Zubaydah is one of us. So we pretend he's a soldier too? Yes. But we say he went crazy during an exercise and had to be shot to be contained. That would explain his injuries and the handcuffs. Safaan isn't convinced. His wounds aren't fresh. Look, I know it's not much, but the clock is ticking. So if you've got anything better, now's the time. Safaan nods. It's the only plan they have.

6:24So it'll have to do.

6:30Minutes later, en route to the hospital Sufan, now dressed in an army uniform watches in horror as Abu Zubaydah's condition deteriorates He's struggling to breathe and the medics are struggling to keep him alive in the cramped and jolting vehicle

6:47Ali Soufan:He needs air, we need to perform an emergency tracheotomy I'll cut You ready? Hold him steady The medic performs the tracheotomy, cutting a hole in Abu Zubaydah's neck and swiftly inserts a tube. That brought us a few minutes. Now we need to pump air into his lungs. I'll need help. The medics, Soufan, and the CIA security chief take turns pumping air through the tube as they rattle towards the hospital.

7:18The next day, at the hospital, Abu Zubaydah opens his eyes. only to close them at the sting of the bright white light. He opens them once more, slowly. He feels numb. He tries to speak, but no words come. As he gets used to the bright light, he sees two young women smiling down on him. He wonders if this is it. Is this paradise? He's back with us. He turns his head towards the voice and sees the face of Sufane. He glances down and sees he's in a hospital bed. Another of his interrogators is standing at the end of the bed. He tries to speak. Sufane leans closer and whispers in his ear, Just play along.

8:09We're doing this to save your life. If you play any games, it's yourself you're endangering.

8:19It's a few hours later, and in the hospital, Sufan has resumed interrogating Abu Zubaydah. He's weak, but awake, and the need to glean intelligence from him while it's still actionable is the priority. When did you last see Osama bin Laden? After 9-11. Just after Pakistan betrayed us, and turned against the Taliban to help America. Was bin Laden planning any attacks? Abu Zubaydah winces and resettles himself in the bed. Yes. He has people working on plots. Like who? Al-Zayat. Sufan recognizes the name. Al-Zayat is an alias of one of the terrorists on the FBI's Most Wanted list. He's being sought for his role in the 1998 US embassy attacks in East Africa.

9:13Sufan uses his personal digital assistant to bring up a picture of Azayat. The device starts loading the image at a glacial pace. Not wanting to waste time, Sufan flips the screen round so Abu Zubaydah can see it. Is this Azayat? Abu Zubaydah squints at the screen and looks confused. No, it isn't. Sufan normally tries to stay cool, but after the rush to get to the hospital, he's unable to contain his anger. What do you mean it isn't? We just saved your life and you're playing games with us. Abu Zubaydah tries to lift his head from the pillow.

9:51Ali Soufan:I'm not playing games. Please, don't play games with me either. I am showing you Azed's picture and you say it's not him. So who the fuck is it? That's not Azed. It's Mokhtar. Zafan freezes. US intelligence is aware of a high-ranking al-Qaeda operative with the nickname Moqtah, but it has no idea of his real identity. Sufan turns the PDA around to check the screen and realizes he loaded the wrong image. This isn't a Zayid. It's Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who's known to be involved in al-Qaeda's media operations and is nicknamed KSM. Quickly, Sufan realizes what's just happened. He's accidentally shown Zubaydah a picture of KSM, causing Abu Zubaydah to reveal that he is also known as Mokhtar.

10:46US intelligence thought these were two different terrorists. Now, they know they are one and the same. Sufan stifles his surprise. He has to make the most at this moment. Oh, sorry, you're right. You're right, wrong photo. But since Mocta's picture is up, why don't you tell me about him? Abu Zubaydah is now flagging with tiredness. You know he is. Please, don't play with me, brother. Zufan says nothing. He just stares at Abu Zubaydah. You know him. He's the one. The one who did the... Plains operation. As Zubaydah drifts off, Sufan absorbs the enormity of what he's just learned. He's just uncovered the identity of the mastermind of 9-11.

11:37And all because he selected the wrong image.

11:45Eight days later, the CIA black site in Thailand. Abu Zubaydah is back from hospital, and Sufan is continuing to interrogate him while he regains his strength. But a CIA interrogation team has just flown in. And with them is a psychologist and independent contractor named Boris. His eyes sparkle with arrogance as he informs Soufan that he is now overseeing the interrogation. You've made some progress with the detainee and we thank you for that. But we believe he knows a lot more than he's telling you. By now, Soufan is used to navigating the tricky relationship with the CIA. Or so he thinks. I know we haven't got everything yet, but it's been a successful series of interrogations.

12:29We're building rapport. It's a process, and he's cooperating. Boris barely seems to be listening. I've developed new methods of interrogation that will get everything out of him much more quickly. How so? Instead of building rapport, we will expose him to repeated adverse stimuli to induce a state of learned helplessness, after which he will cooperate fully. Abu Zubaydah must know where Bin Laden is, but that intelligence is decaying in value every second. So we need to make him talk faster, using my new methods. And what are these methods? We call it enhanced interrogation. Forced nudity, loud music, sleep deprivation.

13:11We lower his resistance and he'll give up his Al-Qaeda secrets. Abu Zubaydah isn't even an Al-Qaeda member and he's trained to resist torture. Boris looks unconvinced and unwilling to listen. This is a CIA operation, and it has approved his approach. We know what we're doing. Abu Zubaydah will buckle and become compliant. You'll see. Sufan looks horrified. You've played a role, though, in order for my technique to work. We need to send a message to Abu Zubaydah that until now he's had the chance to cooperate. But he blew it. He has to understand that we know he was playing games. And that game, he gestures at Sufan.

13:51is now over. Sufan narrows his eyes. And you've done this before? With an Islamic terrorist? No. I know human nature.

14:08The next day. In a darkened room, Sufan watches Boris at work over CCTV. On the blurry screen, Sufan can make out Abu Zubaydah in the interrogation room. He's been stripped naked and is being blasted with loud music. The music stops and Boris marches into the room. Tell us what you know! Abu Zubaydah looks confused.

14:35Ali Soufan:What do you want to know? Boris marches out and music starts again.

14:51One month later. In the CIA black site, Sofhan continues to watch the ongoing interrogation over CCTV. His sense of outrage is mounting. Abu Zubaydah might talk openly of his desire to behead Americans, but Sofhan's struggling with the methods the CIA are using to get information from him. Sofhan's been trained to get results by building rapport. His approach is to make detainees feel they are being treated with dignity and respect. But Boris is a very different kind of operator. Sweaty and bedraggled, Abu Zubaydah hasn't been allowed to sleep for 24 hours. Sufan watches as Boris fires questions at him.

15:33Ali Soufan:Where is Bin Laden? Abu Zubaydah's whole body seems to shudder. His head drifts slowly to one side. Boris smiles and ducks back into the room where Sufan is sat watching. See how he tilts his head? It's working. They both watch the screen as Zubayda falls off his chair, having fallen asleep. He's asleep. How's that for submission? Boris snorts with derision. How is this helping? You're getting nowhere. You've learned nothing at all. It's a process. But maybe we've not gone hard enough. Sivan loses his temper. You're just making this up as you go along. And you're taking risks with information that could save lives.

16:33The End

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18:05Late May 2002, the CIA black site in Thailand. After breakfast, Sufan arrives at the interrogation room to find a wooden box shaped like a coffin. He confronts Boris. What is that thing for? Boris appears unbothered. We've requested permission for something special. We're going to try a mock burial to break him. Sifan is dumbfounded. He stares at the coffin. Uh, can I try it? See what it's like? Sure. Sifan climbs into the coffin. The lid is put over him. He enters a world of total darkness. All sounds are muted. Sufan can barely move. When he tries to shift his arms, they knock against the sides of the coffin.

19:00It's such a tight space. Claustrophobia grips him almost instantly. It's as if the coffin is crushing him. He hammers the lid of the coffin and yells to be let out.

19:12Ali Soufan:Let me out! Let me out! The lid is removed. Sufan climbs out. How long was that? Just a few seconds. Sufan struggles for air. He starts to say something to Boris and then thinks better of it. He stalks off to the site's secure satellite phone and calls FBI headquarters. He gets through to the assistant director of counterterrorism. He explains what Boris is doing to Abu Zubaydah. There's a moment of silence. Then, the assistant director responds. Ali, this is a bad line. Did you say they're putting him in a coffin? Yes. Ali, get out of there. The FBI cannot be a part of this. You get out of there right now.

20:12Manhattan, September 11th, 2002. It's one year since 9-11. At the blasted site that is now called Ground Zero, Soufan marches with his FBI colleagues. In his hand is a wreath for FBI agents killed in the attack on the Twin Towers. He scans the masses of photos of those who died. Among them, he spots the face of his former boss, friend and mentor, John O 'Neill. Safan wells up. Anger at Al-Qaeda rises in his throat as he tries to keep his hands and the wreath he's holding steady. Overhead, the sky is a deep blue.

21:03That afternoon, the FBI field office, New York. Sufan sits alone in the office. Almost everyone else has gone for a drink following the memorial service. Sufan just wants isolation. The CIA's behavior has angered him, but today has reminded him of the real enemy. The terrorists who pervert his faith. Murderers who use his religion to justify their bloodlust. and the need to bring them to justice. His phone rings. It's FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C. Eight al-Qaeda operatives, including two high-value detainees, have been captured in Afghanistan. The CIA wants his help with the interrogations.

21:51I thought they'd never want me again after Abu Zubaydah. The CIA is an organization like any other. Not everyone there thinks the same way. Some respect what you do. And with all respect, this is not a request, it's an order. You leave tonight.

22:13The next day, Afghanistan, near Kabul. A convoy of armored 4x4s rumbles towards a secret detention facility outside of the city. In one of the vehicles, Soufan and his FBI colleagues are being briefed by a CIA operative named Samantha. The first of the high-value detainees is Ramzi bin al-Sheb. He just detailed his role in planning and executing 9-11 in an interview with Al Jazeera. The second is Karim, the younger brother of Khalid, the Khalid behind the USS Cole bombing. The very same. We caught these two in a raid in Karachi, Pakistan. The goal is to extract actionable intelligence from both of them.

22:56The convoy arrives at the secret facility. It's a dismal, isolated place. Buildings that were clearly once part of a factory are now guarded by members of the Northern Alliance. A coalition of tribes who have been helping the US fight the Taliban in Afghanistan. Samantha leads Sufan to the interrogation room. Red carpet covers the floor and walls. Interesting decor. It's unique, I'll give it that. A male CIA officer enters. He points at Soufan. Langley says he's not to have any contact with the HVDs. Soufan sees Samantha roll her eyes. He pushes back. Wait a minute. The high-value detainees are the reason I'm here.

23:42They're why I came all the way from New York. The CIA officer shrugs. Orders are clearly orders. You can talk to the low-value detainees if you want. Soufan knows this comes down to interagency politics. and at the heart of it lie his objections to the torture of Abu Zubaydah. Fine, we'll take the six. But please reconsider, I'm here to help.