In short
Larry Chin, a CIA/FBIS translator and long-time Chinese spy, passes a polygraph, steals Nixon’s China outreach plan, and helps China secure major concessions in the 1972 Shanghai Communiqué; later, Chin retires and is replaced by a new CIA officer recruitment attempt.
Guest backgrounds
No podcast guests appear in this episode transcript; it’s a narrative episode with historical figures (Nixon, Kissinger, Mao, Zhou Enlai, Chiang Kai-shek) and fictionalized/pseudonymous characters (Larry Chin, Oh Chi Ming, Warren Young, Wu Changsheng).
Key claims
Chin’s translation calms him during polygraph questioning; his stolen “top secret” presidential review memo enables Zhou to “beat” Nixon in negotiations; Chin launders spy payments via gambling; CIA officer Warren Young is recruited (as a double agent) by Chinese intelligence officer Wu.
Notable examples
Toronto strip-mall film handoff (“Mr Lee”); Nixon’s Vietnam/troop-withdrawal leverage on Taiwan; Zhou extracting Taiwan force reductions; Young’s tea-house recruitment pitch and later safe-house meetings.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOChin's Encounter with His Spymaster
4:10 to 7:18
Explore Chin's tense reunion with his spymaster and their discussions about espionage.
“He's the only person who knows everything about him.”
Chin's New Job and Secret Document
7:19 to 10:21
Discover Chin's new position at FBIS and the significant document he acquires.
“A few months later, FBIS headquarters, Roslyn, Virginia.”
The Exchange in Toronto
10:22 to 12:12
Follow Chin as he makes a crucial information exchange in Toronto.
“The next day, FBIS headquarters, Roslyn, Virginia.”
Mao's Reactions to the Documents
12:13 to 13:51
Witness Chairman Mao's response to the intelligence provided by Chin.
“Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai walks quickly through the echoing spaces of former imperial palaces and gardens.”
Nixon's Historic Trip to China
15:16 to 18:46
Explore Nixon's anxiety and strategy during his visit to China.
“18 months later, February 21st, 1972, Air Force One.”
Negotiating the Shanghai Communique
18:47 to 21:56
Understand the secret negotiations between Nixon and Zhou Enlai.
“Three days later, Great Hall of the People, Beijing.”
Larry Chin's Gambling Habit
22:10 to 23:56
Learn about Larry Chin's gambling and money laundering activities.
“Larry Chin's eyes wander to the whirling fruit of the slot machines as he enters one of his favourite casinos.”
Chin's Retirement and Uncertain Future
24:04 to 27:30
See how Larry Chin copes with retirement and his financial worries.
“In a small conference room, Chin is finishing up a meeting with intelligence officers from the CIA's China desk.”
Chinese Intelligence Strategies
27:48 to 28:00
Explore the machinations of Chinese intelligence and recruitment efforts.
“The Ministry of Public Security, Beijing.”
Yu's Misstep and Miss Wong's Secret
28:00 to 29:10
Learn about the power dynamics and secretive relationships in Chinese intelligence.
“Yu sits sullenly, showing as much disrespect as he dares.”
Show all 14 chapters
Warren Young's Surveillance and Meeting
29:10 to 31:05
Discover Warren Young's cautious navigation through Beijing and his meeting with Wu.
“CIA officer Warren Young walks down a narrow alleyway, using it as both a detour and a way to flush out any Chinese surveillance he's picked up since leaving the US embassy.”
The Tense Offer for Cooperation
31:05 to 32:55
Explore the risky proposition made by Wu to Young and the implications for both.
“The slight tremble of his hands betrays his nervousness.”
Larry Chin's Banquet and Recognition
32:55 to 35:36
Learn about Larry Chin's accolades and the dual life of a spy and traitor.
“I believe you are a senior intelligence officer.”
Young and Wu's Frustrating Negotiation
35:36 to 37:45
Witness the escalating tension between Young and Wu as they negotiate valuable information.
“And to keep the money coming, he's going to keep placing bets.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01February 1970, CIA headquarters Langley, Virginia. Larry Chin sits in a small room, wired up to a polygraph machine. It's the first lie detector test he's ever taken. He's nervous, and he's right to be. For nearly two decades, he's been working for the FBIS, a division of the CIA that translates publicly available information for analysis. All that time, he's also been a spy for the People's Republic of China. Now he's been offered a promotion that will make him even more useful to Beijing and increase his security clearance. But only if he can defeat this polygraph. The examiner frowns at his machine.
0:46Sorry, I need to repeat that one. Again, are you Larry Chin? Yes. The examiner frowns again before fiddling with the polygraph machine. These damn things. Needles playing up. That should do it. The test resumes. Chin feels a knot in his stomach. It's the pressure of trying to answer the questions correctly. He can see the examiner watching the needles jitter over the paper. Chin also watches it to distract himself. Up and down they go, skittish and erratic. The knot starts to loosen. Have you had extramarital affairs? Chin is surprised by the query. He wonders if that's a standard question or if the CIA knows the answer.
1:28He replies truthfully. Yes, I am ashamed to be so weak. They don't mean anything. Kathy is my wife. I love her. I would never leave my marriage. I only require a yes or a no, Mr Chin. The examiner consults his list of questions. Have you had contact with foreign intelligence services in Hong Kong? Chin feels the knot in his stomach tighten again. He senses his heart beating faster, a sign the polygraph machine is designed to pick up. Then he has a sudden brainwave. He translates the examiner's question in his head before replying, moving words from English to Mandarin and back again. The language has a cooling effect.
2:11It always does. The familiar process of translation calms him. His breathing slows. His stomach settles. No, I go there to visit family and friends. I lived there, Mr Chin. Just a yes or no, please. Chin braces for a follow-up question about his trip to Hong Kong to meet his spymaster. But instead, the examiner moves on to an unrelated matter. Confidence warms his body. If there had been any real concerns about him, they would have questioned him further. And if he passes the polygraph test, he will have access to top-secret information. He'll be exactly where China wants him. The CIA just had a chance to uncover him as a Chinese spy.
2:56And they've blown it.
3:01With JBL Live headphones, you'll lose yourself in your favorite music. In fact, you can get so immersed, we had to add a few disclaimers. While listening with JBL Live headphones, do not start twerking in your office break room. Do not begin line dancing at the DMV. And do not practice your moonwalk while crossing a busy intersection. Or, if that sounds like a good time, then go ahead. Just don't say we didn't warn you. JBL. Made to be heard. Find your pair at JBL.com. This is Audible. From Audible Originals, I'm Indra Varma and this is The Spy Who. In the last episode, Larry Chin became a translator for U.S.
3:46intelligence and used his position to inform on Chinese soldiers who collaborated with America after being captured in the Korean War. Now, Qin's in America and about to get a new job with top-secret clearance, just as US President Richard Nixon seeks to forge a new alliance with communist China. You're listening to The Spy Who Outplayed Nixon. This is Episode 2, a gift for Mr. Li.
4:20One month after the polygraph March 1970, Hong Kong Chin walks into one of the city's bustling tea houses Its walls carefully patterned in red and gold He slides into a booth opposite Oh Chi Ming After a long absence, his spymaster has finally resurfaced While the two men have a reserved relationship, Chin is overjoyed to see O again. He's the only person who knows everything about him. The only person who understands Chin's world. It is good to see you again. I was worried. Chin tries not to stare. His spymaster was always slight, but he now looks gaunt, and there is a strained expression in his eyes that wasn't there before.
5:06Chin understands they will not talk about what happened. O's absence likely means he was taken away for re-education. For anyone surviving that fearsome process, the story is always the same. Afterwards, they want to repress the memory in shame and move on with their lives as briskly as possible. When O speaks, he picks his words with care. My re-education is now complete and I can return to work. Our work. Then I have good news. I am about to start a new job at FBIS headquarters in Virginia. I will have higher security clearance and will work alongside CIA officials from Langley. O's eyes light up.
5:48This is excellent. And the timing is fortunate too. It seems the Americans want to resume diplomatic relations. O pauses to let the thought dangle in the air between them. Qin knows the system well enough to understand that he will never be asked outright for information on America's approach to diplomacy. China prefers its spies to deal in trivialities and play the long game than risk exposure from chasing big flashy wins. But he wants to show willing. I'm very trusted at work. I hear a lot about what president... Please do not take risks. Patience, as always, is the way. But patience can use a sharp eye, should anything important happen to cross your path.
6:30Oh, picks up his tea, his tired eyes suddenly glassy. It is hard to trust imperialists. China has been burnt by opening up to foreigners before. If you hear anything at all, you must let us know. Of course. But I will need a new way to share urgent information. Vancouver is too far away from the East Coast for me to travel without someone noticing. We will find you someone in Toronto. I trust that is close enough? Yes, that would work. Good. I'll be in touch. And, of course, I shall deposit money in your Hong Kong bank account. Chin watches Oh's hand shake as he lifts his teacup. His spymaster's new frailty is a reminder of how swiftly fortunes can change in the world they both inhabit.
7:14Even so, it feels good to be back in the spy game. It feels good to be needed. In America, Chin is a traitor. In China, he can be a hero. And the money doesn't hurt either.
7:33A few months later, FBIS headquarters, Roslyn, Virginia. Chin enters the office of his boss. Like the rest of his new workplace, it has the scuffed blandness that goes with intelligence work. So does his boss. You wanted to see me, boss? Ah, Larry, yes. I want you to look over this. Chin tries to remain calm as his boss hands over a document. It's a presidential review memorandum and stamped top secret. It only takes a cursory scan for Chin to realise that he's struck gold. Larry, the president is seeking to improve relations with the People's Republic of China. You have a much better handle on China than most of our people, so I would value your opinion on the approach set out in this memo.
8:18You think you can do that? Chin is never backwards in boasting. Yes, I understand Chinese affairs, but also the mentality. I know the society, the bureaucracy. I guess you could say I know how the Chinese think. His boss pauses. For a second, Chin worries he's gone too far. Then his boss nods at the document in Chin's hands. In particular, I'd appreciate your views on how you think the Chinese might respond to this approach. The president wants to establish practical and cooperative relations with China. Chin maintains his best poker face as he flicks through the document. It outlines President Nixon's intentions, terms and strategies for reaching out to China.
8:59It's America's entire game plan and it would be invaluable to Beijing. Chin looks up at his boss. I'll need some time with it. His boss checks his watch. It's already mid-afternoon. Could you give me your thoughts by tomorrow lunchtime? Absolutely. Chin takes the document back to his desk. As the office empties out, Chin stays at his desk. Around six, Chin's boss finally heads off for the night, and the office is silent. Alone at last, Chin moves swiftly. He hides the document under his shirt, puts his suit jacket on and buttons it up, despite the swampy summer heat outside. He walks out of the office and right past the security guard.
9:44That night, Chin's apartment in Alexandria. Pleading that he has to work late, Chin stays up as his wife Kathy heads to bed. Once he is sure she is asleep, he starts to photograph the document. He's had a chance to read it, and now knows this could be the biggest coup of his spy career. The document shows the Americans are serious about restoring diplomatic relations with Beijing in order to further isolate the Soviet Union and help the US get out of the Vietnam War. The document also reveals what President Nixon is prepared to give up at the negotiating table. Chin smiles as he raises the camera.
10:25The next day, FBIS headquarters, Roslyn, Virginia. Chin arrives at the FBIS office before everyone else and places the document in the locked drawer it should have spent the night in. After handing in his report to his boss, Chin heads out for lunch. He finds a payphone a few blocks away and phones the number in Toronto that his handler O gave him. The number he is only to use when he needs to share information urgently. Chin waits for the phone to be answered, then uses the codename his contact in Toronto will be expecting. Mr Lee, it is Mr Yang here. Yes? I have a gift. I will arrive at the weekend to give it to you.
11:08Code phrases exchanged, Mr Lee gives Chin directions to a strip mall in Toronto. That weekend, Toronto, Canada. Chin drives off the expressway and into a strip mall car park. Pulse racing, he heads over to the shop he's been told to wait outside. He pretends to study the window display. Moments later, he hears footsteps behind him. Mr Yang, what are you doing here? Chin turns to see his contact and, with a look of surprised delight, holds out his hand. Mr Lee, I didn't know you lived nearby. The pair shake hands and in that second, Chin passes Mr Lee the undeveloped film. His contact casually puts his hand and the film that's now in it into his coat pocket.
11:58The exchange is made. By the time Chin returns to Washington DC that same day, the documents containing Nixon's game plan for China will be winging their way to Beijing. A few days later, the headquarters of the Chinese Communist Party in Beijing. Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai walks quickly through the echoing spaces of former imperial palaces and gardens. He enters the building's indoor pool. As he suspected, Chairman Mao Zedong is there, moving through the water with long, powerful strokes. Despite being in his 70s, Chairman Mao still loves to swim. As Mao emerges from the pool, Zhou presents the secret US documents Qin obtained.
12:45Chairman, this has just come in from one of our spies in America. It concerns President Nixon's attempts to restore relations. Dripping wet, Mao settles into a chair to read the document. Zhou watches his reactions carefully. He believes it is in China's interests to reboot diplomatic relations with the US. Yet he knows Mao's position is more complicated. Mao wants the advanced technology that America has. But since the Korean War, he has sought to keep America at a distance. Mao looks up from a cursory scan of the papers. Can we trust this source? Zhou nods. Yes, he joined us even before we took Beijing.
13:24Zhou thinks it's a good sign that Mao's so engrossed in the document that he hasn't bothered to get dry. A relationship with America is just the thing to help relaunch China and its leader on the world stage. Mao hands back the document. Very good. This tells us Nixon's very thoughts. And if we know his thoughts, we can beat him in any negotiation.
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15:1618 months later, February 21st, 1972, Air Force One. President Richard Nixon stares out the window as it rushes over solid banks of cloud. He's traveling with Henry Kissinger and a small entourage. While he projects his typical grumpy exterior, he actually feels anxious. Or is it excitement? After all, he's about to become the first American president to visit the People's Republic of China. There's a lot at stake. Establishing relations with the Chinese will weaken and isolate the Soviet Union. It will also help him negotiate a face-saving way to get U.S. troops out of Vietnam. His team has been working, mostly in secret, to make this happen since 1970.
16:01But if all goes well, he will deepen the rift between China and the Soviets and reorganize global politics in America's favor. His national security advisor, Henry Kissinger, looks up from his book. Not long now, Mr. President. Nixon just hopes disagreements over Taiwan won't derail his plan. The People's Republic of China regards it as a breakaway province and hasn't ruled out using force to take the island. Nixon is going to have to navigate that to get what he wants. Kissinger spots him frowning. I hope you're feeling confident, Mr President. There's a lot riding on this. Taiwan cannot be a deal-breaker.
16:41We're too close to a genuine breakthrough here. You're perfectly placed to make this happen. Do what you need to do. This is the captain. Mr President, we are making our approach to Beijing.
16:57Later that same day, Beijing. In the library of his house, the chairman of communist China, Mao Zedong, shakes hands with President Nixon. Both smile for the world's press cameras until Mao waves them away. They are trying to take over our meeting. I just want to say how honoured I am to visit China and meet with you, chairman. Your writings have moved a nation and changed the world. Mao smiles, a wicked glint in his eye. Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek doesn't approve of this meeting, you know. He calls us communist bandits. President Nixon looks uncomfortable that the man who leads Taiwan has come up so soon.
17:41Chiang Kai-shek calls the chairman a bandit. So what does the chairman call Chiang Kai-shek? Mao eyes Nixon carefully. He had initially dismissed the American president's overtures of diplomatic friendliness as a ruse. After all, it was less than 20 years ago that they were at war in Korea, and they are currently indirect opponents in the Vietnam War. Well, Chiang and I, we abuse each other. There is an awkward silence as Mao begins to feel the pain coming back all over his body. He's now in his late 70s and he's very ill. He's been heavily dosed up on painkillers to take this meeting. It's a meeting that he knows many in his own party are against.
18:24They will look for any opportunity to show that Mao is giving in to the imperialist enemy. But what they don't know is that he's entering these talks forearmed. All thanks to the Chinese spy in America who stole Nixon's game plan.
18:47Three days later, Great Hall of the People, Beijing. Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai is now deep in negotiations with President Nixon. With the photo opportunities done, Mao has retreated, leaving Zhou to extract a good deal for China. And thanks to Larry Chin's intel, Zhou knows Nixon is willing to offer a lot to draw China closer. And Zhou's out to get those concessions. Taiwan is the crucial question between our two countries. If one has profound understanding, one can see that there is common ground towards this question. But if one looks at it in a general or a superficial way, one may not see that common ground.
19:29Nixon responds with a careful, rehearsed reply. My goal is normalisation with the People's Republic. I realise that solving the Taiwan problem is indispensable to achieving that goal. As Vietnam is concluded, as it will be concluded in one way or another, the removal of two-thirds of our forces on Taiwan will be done. Joe nods but says nothing. The empty seconds stretch outwards. He calmly holds the US president's stare until he says more. There will be opposition, but it will be done. Joe risks further silence, emboldened by the material China's spy has provided. It's also clear that Nixon finds silence awkward and feels compelled to fill it.
20:23Joe holds his stare. He knows he can get more. The seconds stretch out. Nixon's expression falters. A hint of uncertainty, even panic, creeps into his eyes. And I can also move to reduce our other forces, the other one-third. I can do that as our relationship develops. Joe smiles. It turns out poker is easy when you know your enemy's cards.
20:56Three days later, the Jinjung Hotel, Shanghai. In a large function room, the Chinese premier Zhou Enlai signs the Shanghai Communique, the document he and President Nixon have spent the past few days negotiating. Signature done, he makes way for Nixon to sign it too. Just here, Mr President. Behind his impassive face, Zhou feels victorious. This is the first diplomatic agreement between the two countries since the communists took power in 1949 and China's succeeded in almost all of its negotiating targets. The US has promised it will eventually pull almost all of its soldiers from Taiwan. In return, Zhou has given little more than a few assurances that China will support peace in Vietnam.
21:49These are wins he might not have secured without the help of the undercover Chinese agent embedded in the CIA. Joe knows if the Americans ever discover what this agent has done, it will go all out to hunt him down.
22:10Four years later, Las Vegas. Larry Chin's eyes wander to the whirling fruit of the slot machines as he enters one of his favourite casinos. He heads to the cashier's desk reserved for VIPs and big spenders. The cashier smiles on seeing him. Good to see you again so soon, Mr Chin. Chin's always enjoyed gambling, but his fast-growing habit isn't just for fun. He uses it to launder and explain the money his Chinese spymasters pay into his secret Hong Kong bank account. How many chips would you like today? I'm feeling lucky. How about$5 ,000? Put it on my tab. Chin takes his chips to the private blackjack tables.
22:51The concierge swoops in. Mr Chin, always a pleasure. How are the kids? Medical school, isn't it? They're making me proud, but they're also costing me money. Well, I wish you luck tonight. A complimentary drink, perhaps. Your usual? Chin nods and begins to play. He quickly starts to lose money, but he doesn't mind. He's having fun, and a few recorded losses help make the money he's about to walk away with look more legitimate. And that's 21. After losing$2 ,000, he returns to the cashier and hands over the remaining$3 ,000 worth of chips. Shall I put them against your tab? No, I'll take it in cash.
23:32Invoice my Hong Kong account for the tab. Chin smiles as the cashier counts out the cash. He can now claim the money as gambling winnings, even though it came straight from his secret bank account in Hong Kong. And now he's laundered his spy earnings. He plans to invest some of the money in buying properties to rent around the US. The only problem is that he's finding it harder and harder to leave the gambling tables early.
24:03Three years later, 1979, CIA headquarters Langley, Virginia. In a small conference room, Chin is finishing up a meeting with intelligence officers from the CIA's China desk. As one of the CIA's best translators, he's often called in to offer his advice. He may be a spy and a traitor, but he still enjoys the feeling of being needed. As the meeting ends, Warren Young, a slim and energetic intelligence officer with Chinese heritage, approaches Chin. Larry, you got a couple of minutes? Of course. Could you check a message I'm sending to an agent in China? It's important I make a good first impression.
24:45Qin keeps his face neutral. Another opportunity to please Beijing has fallen right into his lap. He'd kill for this kind of luck at the blackjack table. Of course. I'll need to know a few things about who the message is going to. What kind of things? Just the basics. Age, male or female. Where in China they're from. Education level. These are legitimate questions for a translator. They're also a way for Qin to glean information that can help China's Ministry of Public Security identify the CIA's agent. Qin read through the message numerous times to memorise it and all the details Yang has unwittingly revealed about the agent.
25:25After he has finished, Yang is grateful. I might consult you about more cultural stuff in the next few weeks, if that's OK. I'm heading to Beijing soon. It's a big posting and I don't want to make any etiquette mistakes. Of course. Anytime.
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25:44Two years later, July 1981. FBIS headquarters, Roslyn, Virginia. In a large meeting room that's been transformed for an awards ceremony with a makeshift stage, Chin steps forward to shake hands with Bobby Inman, the deputy director of the CIA. Pride, relief and sadness entwine within him as he accepts his career intelligence medal. After years of service and with his 59th birthday imminent, Chin is being forced to retire due to his age. Mr Chin, I'm sorry the director couldn't be here today, but leave with the knowledge that your faithful and loyal support has measured up to the high ideals and traditions of the federal service.
26:31As the applause dies down and people start mingling, Chin looks at his medal. He tries to understand the muddle of emotions he's feeling. Pride at a job well done. Relief that he ended his career without his spying being uncovered. Melancholy that he's being cut adrift and will no longer be surrounded by the friendly chatter he's grown accustomed to. He also wonders what next. He's not yet 60. There's a lot of life yet to fill. A colleague nudges him. You've got your best years ahead of you, Larry. I hope so. Chin looks at the former colleagues all around him and realises something. He has no idea what to do now.
27:10His outgoings far exceed his CIA pension. His landlord earnings from properties in Baltimore and Las Vegas won't close the gap. And now he no longer has access to classified information. He's about to lose his spy income too. The medal glints in his hand as it catches the light. Chin wonders, does he actually need to tell Beijing he's retired? He grabs a drink from a nearby table and ponders whether he's got a few big gambles left in him.
27:48Winter 1981, a few months after Larry Chin's retirement. The Ministry of Public Security, Beijing. Intelligence officer Yu Changxiong enters the office of his boss, Miss Wong. Yu sits sullenly, showing as much disrespect as he dares. Miss Wong is an attractive woman, and Yu, the adopted son of the head of China's intelligence service. But one night, Yu made the error of thinking that his family ties trumped the hierarchy he moves within and propositioned her. Miss Wong rejected him in the most scathing terms. Now, he can never think of her without feeling shame and humiliation. Without meeting Wu's gaze, Miss Wong hands over a file.
28:34The US has posted someone new to its embassy. His name's Warren Young. We know he is CIA, but he has Chinese heritage. We may be able to use that as a leverage. Get close and recruit him for us. Wu frowns as he scans the file. How do we know he's CIA? That's not for you to know. Wu senses Miss Wong is enjoying holding information back. It's clear she thinks he only got this job out of nepotism. He wonders if she's setting him up to fail. He leaves angry and worried, but he dares not slam the door behind him.
29:09Early 1982, the back streets of Beijing. CIA officer Warren Young walks down a narrow alleyway, using it as both a detour and a way to flush out any Chinese surveillance he's picked up since leaving the US embassy. Despite his Chinese heritage, his clothes and manner mark him out as a Westerner. It feels like everybody in Beijing is watching him. Not that China's intelligence services always opt for subtlety. Sometimes those watching him make no attempt to hide the fact that they are following him. He heads down another alleyway. Today, he's determined to ensure he hasn't been followed, for he's about to meet with a Chinese government official called Wu Changsheng.
29:54Yang suspects Wu is actually a Chinese intelligence officer who suspects he's with the CIA. For months, they have been meeting on the diplomatic cocktail circuit just a shade too often and having odd, stilted conversations. Then, Wu asked if they could meet somewhere more private. Young wants to see where this could lead. Reassured that he's not being tailed, Young reaches their meeting place. It's a traditional tea house, a little dingy but comfortable. He notes that Oo has secured a table where his back is against the wall. From there, he will be able to watch the rest of the room and ensure they cannot easily be overheard.
30:34Mr Young, so glad to see you. They make small talk for a while. Then Young senses Oo starting to grow nervous. He's ready to ask the question he's clearly been waiting to ask. Mr. Young, I wondered, to put it bluntly, if you'd be willing to help China while you are here. Blood pounds in Young's ears. It's the moment every intelligence agent trains for. But it's suddenly here. It's suddenly real. He tries to seem calm, almost amused. You want me to spy? Wu sits forward. The slight tremble of his hands betrays his nervousness. No, no, Mr Young, nothing like that. I don't want you to do anything that would hurt the US.
31:15Don't you read the papers? This is a bold new era for our countries. I want you to help foster better relations between us. I'd love you to pass us anything that might... Young senses that something is slightly off about U. But what? Anything that might help us to understand one another better. You would be well compensated. U sits back and waits for an answer. Young knows this is a dangerous moment. The offer could be a trap to expose him as an American spy. Protocol is to end the conversation there and walk away. But what Young registered about OO a moment ago has come into focus. Beneath the nerves, OO's tone is half-hearted, slumped in his chair.
31:59His body language suggests defeat as much as watchfulness. It was a rushed pitch, a little basic. Young stirs his tea to give himself more time to think. He's surprised that Oo's mentioned compensation already. Maybe money's an issue close to Oo's heart. Young ponders the man in front of him. Every time he's met Oo, there's been something only loosely contained within him. Some kind of angry grudge at the world around him. He wouldn't be the first Chinese spy who's been wronged in the endless purges and re-education. Is it possible that Oo's loyalty is compromised? With his heart in his mouth, Young takes a risk.
32:40America shares your desire for good relations. But perhaps we could achieve these objectives better if the information ran from China to the US? We too would be prepared to compensate well for such efforts. Young tenses for angry denials. But instead, who does nothing? Young decides he may as well plough on. I believe you are a senior intelligence officer. You must be, to be able to meet an American alone like this. What is your rank? Young's just upped the stakes. They're no longer just chatting. He's made a direct request for actual information. Ooh leans forward slightly. Does your offer include resettlement?
33:18Young's heart leaps. Ooh wants to move to America. Young leans towards Ooh. You would have to earn that. We would need to be sure of high-quality information. Ooh takes a long sip of tea, then answers Young's question. I am the chief of the foreign Affairs Bureau at the Ministry of Public Security. Young blinks in disbelief. He's just recruited an agent who can prize open the deepest secrets of Chinese intelligence.
33:50A few days later, a restaurant in Beijing. In a restaurant favoured by the most powerful members of the Politburo, a banquet is being served. In pride of place is Larry Chin. He He feels calm and quietly pleased with himself. Since he's no longer a government employee in the US, a trip to Beijing is low risk. But he's decided to keep his retirement to himself. If China thinks he's still capable of passing them information, they'll still be capable of passing him checks. Next to Qin is his spymaster, Oh, who points out the various leading members of the Chinese intelligence service. They have all come to honor Qin.
34:33See how the great and the good have turned out to honour you and your work? That man over there is Li Wenchong, Vice Minister of Chinese Intelligence. He is here for you. I can't quite believe it. While Qin watches, Li stands and raises a glass. The crowd grows silent. You honour us with your dedicated service, Comrade Qin. For more than three decades, you have aided the party in navigating a hostile landscape. we would like to honour you with a new rank Deputy Bureau Chief in the United States After the applause, O whispers in Chin's ear The rank is honourary of course but there is also$40 ,000 in your bank account A thank you for the intelligence provided and for the intelligence you will provide in the future Chin smiles and thanks him He's come to terms with who he is now He's a spy and a traitor and, in China at least, a hero.
35:33But deep down, he's a gambler. And to keep the money coming, he's going to keep placing bets.
35:44Several days later, Beijing. CIA officer Warren Young arrives at the safe house Wu has organised in the back streets of Beijing. He breathes a sigh of relief as he enters. It took an age to get here. Mainly because he had to give his own CIA counterintelligence officers the slip before coming here. But it's all for show. Wu has told his bosses that he recruited Young as an agent to enable them to continue meeting. So Young must make it look like he's betraying the CIA. It also means he must come to each meeting armed with worthless but credible intelligence for Wu. But today, Wu looks frustrated.
36:25What's wrong? I'm tired of all this back and forth. I've given you a lot of information now and you promised me resettlement. Young has seen Oo's impatience building, so his agitation comes as no surprise. Oo continues to vent. I am not as popular as I could be in my department. I just want to get out of here before I'm discovered. Young watches as Oo paces and then suddenly stops. I want to go to America. I've honoured my part of the bargain. Haven't I done that? Young nods curtly. He must remain diplomatic but firm. Look, I want to help, but you need to give us more. If you give us something really useful, something we can act on, I'll be able to convince my superiors.
37:09Young watches Wu, whose face suggests he's grappling with a decision. Eventually, Wu speaks. What if I told you there is a Chinese agent inside your intelligence services? That would be extremely valuable. but I'll need more details, starting with a name. I don't have his name. I happened to overhear a conversation. I was lucky to get that much. That information's too vague. I know what my superiors will say. There will be no question of resettlement until we have enough details to track down the mole. But if you lead us to him, you will have more than earned your ticket out. U nods silently to confirm that he understands the task ahead of him.
37:49Young knows he's asking U to risk his life to get this information. But if there really is a Chinese spy embedded inside US intelligence, this could be America's only shot at exposing him.
38:11You have been listening to The Spy Who, an Audible original. Have you got a spy story you'd like us to tell? Email your ideas to thespywho at audible.com. A quick note about our dialogue. We can't know everything that was said or done behind closed doors, particularly far back in history, but our scenes are written using the best available sources. So even if a scene or conversation has been recreated for dramatic effect, it's still based on biographical research. The CIA officer identified in the script as Warren Young is a pseudonym. We used many sources in our research for this season, including The Spy Within by Todd Hoffman and Chinese Spies by Roger Faligo.
38:55The Spy Who is hosted by me, Indra Varma. The producer was Vespucci with writing and story editing by Yellowant. For Yellowant, the writer was Christian Donlon, researched by Louise Byrne with thanks to Monty Cooper and Gigi Kaur. The managing producer was Jay Priest. For Vespucci, the senior producer was Holly Aquilina. The sound designer was Alex Portfelix. Natalia Rodriguez is the supervising producer. Music supervision by Scott Velasquez for Frisson Sync. For Vespucci, the executive producers were Johnny Galvin and Daniel Turkin. For Yellow Ant, the executive producer was Tristan Donovan. For Audible, the executive producers were Estelle Doyle and Theodora Leloudis.
39:47Follow The Spy Who on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of The Spy Who ad-free by joining Audible.
From the publisher
After years of cautious spying, Larry Wu-Tai Chin is about to hit the jackpot. He’s getting a promotion that will give him the inside track on President Richard Nixon’s plan to reset relations with China. But in Beijing, trouble’s brewing for Mao’s undercover agent.
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