80/20 incel rule from Netflix's Adolescence explained

0:04Hi, I'm Julie Banks and welcome back to The Standard Podcast. If you're new here, hit follow and give us a rating. Coming up, could the iconic London black cab soon be a thing of the past? The London Standards, Transport and City Hall editor, Ross Lydell, explains why they're facing an uncertain future. Really what we're talking about here is people preferring to get a Nuber or to use other smartphone apps to hail a minicab rather than to get in a black cab.

0:35But first, former England football manager Gareth Southgate has spoken out about the toxic online influencers who are promoting harmful ideologies to young men. Some of these issues are addressed in the new Netflix series Adolescence, which we spoke about in yesterday's podcast. But today, we're taking a deeper look into the language which is being used within this online culture. Joining us is the London Standards columnist and features writer Maddy Musson. Maddy, you've written an interesting article on this topic, but before you help us unpick some of the language that comes up in adolescence, what did you think of the programme itself and what it says about the current influences young people are being exposed to?

1:19I mean, I thought it was amazing. I was actually quite surprised that it went in the direction that it did. I almost have a distrust and a kind of low level of expectation for mainstream media in covering this kind of epidemic of violence against women. I think that people are really hesitant to address it. So when it did go that way, I was so gratified because I was like, realistically, this is what could happen. And And you know, also the thing about how young he is, one of the most recent youngest people to have been jailed for knife crime in London, I think is 12 years old. So it's really not that unrealistic for the age that he is either and for the age that he'd be exposed to that kind of misogynistic content.

2:06So, yeah, I thought it was hugely realistic and really necessary. Well, the language that comes up across the series, some of it people might have heard a little bit of. Other terms will be new to people. So let's try and unpick a little bit if we can. And if we can start with what seems to sort of be at the heart of this concept, the manosphere. What is that? So the manosphere is like the world in which all these teachings live in. It's a collection of websites, influences, online kind of places that people exist that teaches men about misogyny, a distrust of feminism and violence against women.

2:39Ultimately, the worst part of the manosphere is a desire to commit violent acts against women. The kind of intro level of the manosphere is this belief that men are oppressed and women are actually not oppressed, but we're treating women as if they're the ones who have everything wrong, whereas actually men are the ones that are suffering. That's the kind of like intro belief of the manosphere. And a term which people may have heard but not fully understand is incel. Can you explain to us what that actually means? Yeah, so incel means involuntarily celibate. So it's basically someone who isn't having sex, not by choice.

3:14So that, you know, like celibacy would obviously be not having sex by choice. Involuntary celibate would be that you're not having sex and it's not your own choice. So a lot of men use that, or sorry, a lot of men in the manosphere, not a lot of men collectively, use that to describe themselves when they feel like women are withholding sex from them because they're not an ideal man. They place the blame onto women. Actually, that might be a good time to pick up on the concept then of the 80-20 rule. What does that reference? So this is a very old incel theory. It's based on a real economic theory, but the way that incels use it is completely different from the economic teaching.

3:51So the economic theory is the Pareto principle that 80 % of consequences come from 20 % of actions, whereas the incel theory is that 80 % of women are attracted to the top 20 % of men. the top 20 % are the most attractive men, the most masculine, the most kind of traditionally attractive. And they think that 80%, so the majority of women are only attracted to these 20 % of men. So they think that those 20 % of men are hoarding women and that the 80 % of women are kind of picky about which men they would choose and therefore withholding sex from the majority of other men. So it helps fuel that incel ideology of it being women's fault that these men aren't having sex and the only men that are having sex are like chads which are like alpha males okay so that brings me nicely onto what i was going to ask you about next the phrase alpha male obviously one a lot of people will be familiar with but it sort of sits differently within the manosphere and also a couple of other terms that i hadn't realized were also being used within that about betas and sigmas as well yeah so alpha male is like the ideal male form in theory to incels and then beta is obviously the kind of opposite of that.

4:58It's like a subservient subordinate male. So they can think of themselves as betas, but there's been a recent trend in young boys really idolizing the concept of being a sigma, which is a lone wolf. If you ask any teacher in like a school, they'll have heard of a young boy referencing sigmas, especially if they're kind of like age 8 to 15, even to 18, they're going to have referenced it. They don't necessarily always know that it's got such clear links to incel culture, but it does come from incel culture. And often the Sigmas, the lone wolves are the ones that can go on to commit violent acts.

5:34So yeah, it's weird. It's got like this kind of very blasé use among young men these days, but actually it's still part of this really dark subculture. And a few that I've not come across before, red pills, where does that come from and what does it mean? So the matrix is like one of the key reference points of the manosphere. The red pill, obviously in the Matrix, it's the one that wakes you up, whereas the blue pill is the pill that you would take to keep living in a simulation. So incels think that they have been red-pilled, as they say, which means that they have been woken up to the teachings of the manosphere.

6:07They have been woken up to the reality that actually life is not equal for women and men. If anything, life is more unequal for men and men are victims. Also, there are some emojis which parents might think of as initially harmless, but which come with a much darker interpretation. Yeah. So the coffee cup emoji, or it can be the like tea cup emoji is an incel insult. A lot of the time used to kind of dismiss women. The origination of it would be that an incel trying to make fun of a woman online would just comment women with the top, like the coffee cup. I guess it kind of means that like a woman is being annoying.

6:43A woman is being like, I don't know, feminine or loud or difficult. And they're like, oh, women. And then there's also the kidney beans emoji, which for all of my efforts, I cannot work out the etymology or emojiology for. But for some reason, the kidney beans emoji has been used now to signify that someone is an incel. So yeah, it's a weird signifier now. Another term that I've never heard of, looks maxing. Have you heard of that phrase before? And what does it mean? Yeah, so a big thing in incel culture is trying to become a chad or get around the perceived inequality of society by becoming the men that these women would want to have sex with.

7:23So that can involve changing the way you look. Incels think that if they have more masculine features like stronger jawlines or bigger muscles, then women will suddenly be attracted to them instead of, I don't know, like changing their personalities to not believe that women are less than them. So they do this thing called looks maxing which is where you kind of aim to look more like an alpha or a chad by changing your appearance that can involve this thing called mewing which is where men suck the inside of their mouth to kind of tense their jaw and make their jaw naturally stronger young boys have been doing that in schools too I've heard from teachers I don't think they necessarily know where it is but yeah that's a part of looks maxing so how worried should we be about the use of this language sort of becoming more mainstream.

8:07And also, what can we be doing as parents or anyone who's got young people in their lives to sort of try and get to grips with some of the language that's being used and being able to have open conversations with young people about it? I think a lot of people won't realise that when their kids are using these terms, or kids in their school, like kids that they come across, I don't think they'd realise that this doesn't mean that your child is an incel. It's a sign of how pervasive incel culture and incel terminology has become in youth culture. I think gently asking them where they heard it is a really good starting point.

8:42All hate comes from fear, right? A lot of the time it's from a fear or a self-pitying, a dislike of themselves. So looking after children and making sure that they have a self-esteem is the most important thing that you can do. And really, if they start to like themselves more, they will not fall into these holes.

9:03let's go to the ads coming up in part two the london standards transport and city hall editor ross liddell reports on the challenges facing london's black cabs and why their very future is at risk welcome back the traditional hackney carriage fondly referred to by most of us as black cabs have been an iconic symbol of London for generations. However, there are new concerns that their future could be in doubt. The London Standards Transport and City Hall editor Ross Lydell is here to tell us more. Ross, how many black cabs are currently on London streets and why is it that their numbers could be at risk?

9:44So the latest figures from Transport for London show that there are 14 ,470 black cabs in London. That was a couple of weeks ago. This is actually I figure they keep updating on a fairly regular basis so we can track how many of these sort of iconic vehicles are seen around the capital. The sad news for fans of this iconic vehicle is that these numbers are down by about 8 ,000 on about a decade ago and back around 2010, 2011, there were more than 22 ,000 black cabs in London. That's obviously a massive drop. What are some of the challenges that cab drivers are facing? Well, they were hit very badly by the pandemic when obviously many people did not come into the centre of town, the loss of tourists and in particular international tourists has also hit the trade really badly because typically they would be waiting around Heathrow Airport or at stations such as Paddington, King's Cross, Euston and so on waiting to pick up visitors to London and to drive them around town to their hotel or to the theatre wherever they would want to go.

10:50That's been probably the biggest issue. The other issue is the cost of using a cab that has gone up year after year after year. But probably the third and main issue is the rise in minicabs, known as private hire vehicles. And really what we're talking about here is people preferring to get an Uber or to use other smartphone apps to hail a minicab rather than to get in a black cab. Just on the expense of black cabs, if you could just pick up on that for me. A lot of people probably won't realise that they are governed by Transport for London. it's not something that they've got control over themselves, is it?

11:25That's right. So Transport for London is essentially the regulator. It licences the drivers, it licences the vehicles and it sets the fares. So cabbies can actually depart from the fare. They can charge you less, but they can't charge you more than the recommended fare. But by and large, all trips will be on the metre, as it's known. As soon as you get in the cab, the metre will start running. Now, these fares are due to increase again in April and it means that the minimum charge will be£4.20 and then essentially the meter ticks up in increments of 20p depending on how far you go and how long you're in the cab.

12:03Obviously the biggest frustration for passengers is if the cab gets stuck in traffic then the meter keeps ticking on. The rates also increase at night and at the weekend. The idea of course is that the fares are the only way that the cabbies can actually make an income and TFL tries to balance the needs of passengers with the needs of drivers and they need to keep people working in the trade. But they're certainly not the cheapest way to get around town. So is there a way to avoid losing these iconic cabs, do you think? What needs to be done or what can be done to ensure their future? Well, this report today from the Centre for London Think Tank makes a few suggestions primarily around subsidising the cost of running a cab.

12:40It's pointed to the fact that a scrappage scheme that TfL ran a few years ago, which essentially encouraged drivers to upgrade their cab to get rid of the sort of smellier old diesel cabs to switch to what are known as zero emission capable cabs has run out and also that a government sort of plug it in grant to encourage the take-up of electric vehicles will soon run out so there aren't subsidies available or there won't be from next year to encourage the take-up of the cleaner vehicles you know buying a cab is a very expensive business I think it's around sort of 70 75 000 pounds for a brand new cab and many cabbies either share them or lease them but these are hefty vehicles they're obviously great vehicles in the sense that they're accessible for people using wheelchairs and they're also very safe so they're a good place to be a passenger in if you're concerned about safety the other issues of course in terms of actually protecting this sort of form of transport largely revolve around accessibility because many londoners with disabilities have what's known as the taxi card which is a subsidised scheme run by London councils that allows them essentially to use black cabs at subsidised rates.

13:51The issue of course is that as fares rise then the subsidies that they get in terms of how much credit they get on their taxi card means they can't go quite as far or make as many journeys. So the distinctive nature of the London black cab is under threat primarily because some minicabs are now accessible as well. If you've got a conventional car, that's obviously not accessible, but there are plenty of private hire firms that offer vehicles that have access for wheelchair users. Well, Ross, thanks very much for all your updates on that. Much appreciated.

14:26That's The Standard. For all the latest news, head to standard.co.uk. If you'd like to drop us a line, please do so at podcasts at standard.co.uk. This podcast returns tomorrow at 4pm. We'll see you then.