The 7 October attacks, two years on

0:02Hi, I'm Charlie Duffield and welcome back to The Standard Podcast. if you're new here hit follow and give us a rating for all the latest news head to standard.co.uk coming up later in the show the ex-drug dealer turned instagram star who was about to open his debut restaurant in south london so my name is nathaniel mortley aka natican cook i was a social media chef but i just finished a residency in a pub doing like fine dining caribbean food and we're just here just trying to elevate the caribbean culture and the food that we all love My aunt, she used to own a cake business. And obviously to make a bit of extra money, I used to help her make cakes in the summer and whatnot.

0:41So that was the thing which started the passion growing. The next goal is I'm going to be opening up a restaurant very, very soon, eventually trying to aim to get a Michelin star. And also at the same time, taking on all ex-prisoners that really want to get into the culinary world. I feel like they definitely need a second chance to show that just because you've made a mistake doesn't mean that you can't go again and try again and better your life. But first, today marks two years since the deadly attacks launched on Israel by Hamas on the 7th of October 2023. Approximately 1 ,200 people were killed, with a further 251 others taken hostage.

1:20The Israelis estimate that 20 hostages are still alive, and they want the return of the bodies of 28 others. The war in Gaza was triggered, and since then, there have only been two ceasefires in November 2023 and January 2025. According to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry, 67 ,139 people have been killed by Israeli military operations in Gaza, although this figure is thought to be an underestimate. Israelis are gathering at memorial events today, including at the site of the Nova Music Festival, where hundreds of revellers were killed and abducted by Hamas and taken into Gaza. Marking the two-year anniversary of Hamas's attack, UK Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said every child of Israel should be able to live alongside their Palestinian neighbours in safety and security.

2:11But he added that pro-Palestine protests have been used by some as a despicable excuse to attack British Jews. Students plan to protest the beginning of genocide in Gaza with a demonstration billed as a walkout of class. Writing in The Times, Starmer urged students to call off planned protests at universities, declaring them un-British and showing a lack of respect. Here's what students in Sheffield had to say. This movement is not anti-Semitic. To actually, to claim that the actions of Israel, the genocidal campaigns of Israel represent Judaism, you know, that's anti-Semitic and we should call it out.

2:49Free, free Palestine! Free, free, free Palestine! Free, free, free Palestine. We want an end to all the bloodshed, and that includes all violence against all religious minorities. Occupation is a crime. Occupation is a crime. Get your hands on Palestine. Get your hands on Palestine. It comes less than a week after 35-year-old Jihad al-Shamie launched a terror attack outside Heaton Park Hebrew Congregation Synagogue in Manchester, killing two men. Starmer said the UK will always stand tall and united against those seeking to harm Jewish communities. Meanwhile, indirect talks are taking place in Egypt today between delegations from Hamas and Israel, aimed at ending the war in Gaza as part of Donald Trump's peace plan.

3:36Joining us now is Mao Zinon, an award-winning Israeli peace activist and co-author of the forthcoming book, The Future is Peace, a shared journey across the Holy Land. He lost both his parents in the Hamas attack on October 7, 2023. How are you feeling today on this two-year anniversary of Hamas' attack in Israel? I'm very sad. I'm very, very sad. I just had a Zoom meeting with my siblings and nieces and nephews, and it's been a very sad two years. What we lost and experienced, and losing both parents in the same day in such a tragic event, it's behind words. And also I'm very, very sad with all the life that we've lost in the last two years.

4:17Palestinians, children, women, elderly and Israelis. So it's a very sad day that we mark two years of bloodiest war. Now in the UK, Prime Minister Keir Starmer has condemned pro-Palestine student protests as showing a lack of respect, especially after last week's synagogue attack and with the Jewish community experiencing unprecedented anti-Semitism. I wondered what your thoughts were on this. We are envisioning a better future for both people and acting in order to make this vision into reality. And in the darkest time, in time of despair, we are not losing hope, but creating hope. What we usually say that if you must divide us, please don't divide us by Israelis and Palestinians, Muslims or Jews or Christian, native or immigrants.

5:07If you must divide us, please divide us by those who believe in equality, injustice, reconciliation and peace and those who don't yet. And what I have to say about your prime minister comment, I am calling everyone. If they are leaders or common people, don't choose a side. Choose the peacemakers. Support the peacemakers. And unfortunately, the UK hasn't done nearly anything yet, anything to support the civil society within Israel and Palestine, even though your prime minister promised that more than once. And also the G7 leaders, the G7 group leaders wrote in their communique that they will support the Israeli-Palestinian peace movement and civil society in order to stop the bloodshed and create a reality of peace.

5:54But unfortunately, those are so far only an empty statement coming from the UK, from many European capitals, not to mention the US. So join us. I'm calling your prime minister. I'm calling the people in Britain. Join us to solve once and for all the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. A week ago, Donald Trump revealed his 20-point peace plan. And today, indirect talks are continuing between Israel and Hamas. What action do you want to see taken? We need to move from the battlefield into the negotiation room. And I'm very hopeful that the negotiations that are taking place in Sharem Ashech will be fruitful.

6:34But as they are still going, the massacre in Gaza is continuing. And every day there are dozens of civilians that are being killed in Gaza. And the annexation, the brutality of the Israeli extremist settlers in the West Bank is continuing. we must be very alert that there will be many attempts to sabotage those negotiations and peace plan from extremists on both sides, from Hamas and from the Israeli government. So we must pressure both sides to do what's best for their people on the ground and not what's better for the regimes, if it's the Hamas or the Israeli government. So what would you like people to remember on this two-year anniversary of such a tragic event?

7:15I want to remember my parents and all those who lost their life in the last two years, that they will be a sacrifice for peace and not victims of war. And humanity has showed in the past that we can rise from the ashes to create an alternative future, a safe, secure future and life for the people who are just a day before or a moment before massacring and killing each other. So I want everyone to remember that all conflict ends in the end. And we can choose different. We can choose better. And we all must choose peace and reconciliation. Finally, Maus, you wanted to tell me about the lessons you have learned from October the 7th.

7:57Okay, so the first lesson is that hope is not something we can lose or find. Hope is an action. And this is what we are doing on the ground, the Israeli-Palestinian peace movement. The second lesson is that even though the gap and the difference between the Israeli and Palestinian story today marking Tours' anniversary of October 7, is the widest and the biggest ever Israelis and Palestinians are meeting in the future. We meet in the future that is based on equality and dignity, shared acknowledgement and recognition, reconciliation and healing, security and safety for both people. And the most difficult lesson that I learned from my Palestinian partners and friends is the power of forgiveness.

8:37I decided to choose forgiveness. We free ourselves from the destiny, those who harmed us and killed our loved one. And we can choose a different destiny. We can choose a different path. And forgiveness is a great tool to free yourself from anger, from trauma. And it's a great path into a personal and collective healing. I would love to end with the lesson I learned from my father, who was a farmer. For 58 years, my father was sowing wheat in the fields of the Negev, which is very, very difficult and very challenging. And he was suffering from drought, from floods, wildfire, insects. And he would share with me and with my brother and sisters how devastating the situation.

9:24But then when the next season came, he would learn from his mistakes. He would consult with other farmers. He would get the best seeds. will fertile the land, will open it for the rainwater to come. And he would sow again after each devastating season, knowing that he has the agency to change the future, that it's up to him to make next season, next year, a better year. And now I took this part and role upon myself, and I'm doing everything, we are doing everything we can in order to make next year better. We want the British people, the British government, administration, to support our reconciliation efforts, to support our shared life efforts and initiative.

10:06It's too late for many. It's too late for my parents. It's too late for nearly 70 ,000 Palestinians. But it's not too late for about 14 million people that are living between the river to the sea in Israel, in Palestine, in Gaza. 7 million Jews, 7 million Palestinians. It's not too late for us. So let's do it. Let's solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and let's choose humanity, peace and justice. Let's go to a break. Coming up in part two, the South London chef hoping to put Caribbean food on the map in the capital. We'll see you back here in just a moment.

10:49Welcome back. Nathaniel Morley has had a long journey to stardom, but with more than 50 ,000 Instagram followers. and after being named the one to what chef by Condé Nast Traveller, he's certainly making a name for himself. But to get here, he survived a stabbing, drugs and stint in Brixton Prison. And despite what some people think, he didn't learn to cook behind bars, even though he was known as the chef. In fact, he's been cooking since he was a teenager, and despite some missteps along the way, is about to open his debut pan-Caribbean restaurant in Herne Hill, 2210, to prove that the cuisine is about more than just jerk chicken, rice and peas.

11:30Dishes on the menu include lobster rasta pasta, ackee and saltfish spring roll and deep fried apple crumble. I spoke to The Standards food and drink writer Josh Barry, who met the up-and-coming chef over a plate of pasta at Padella. Josh, remind me who Nathaniel Mortley is. Nathaniel Mortley, he's better known as Natty Can Cook. He's a chef from Peckham in South London. He's worked in the industry for a long time and he's just opening his first debut restaurant in Brixton in Herne Hill called 2210. He specializes in sort of Caribbean food, but kind of in a more upmarket setting, basically. So how did his experience in prison influence his cooking then?

12:10He started out cooking in restaurants as a teenager and worked his way up, worked in some really prestigious restaurants. And then, yeah, difficult circumstances led him to be locked up for two and a half years in Brixton prison, which is only two miles away from his restaurant site now. He lost his way and in prison he kind of came to the realisation that this was a really good career for him and he could utilise social media to build a following and kind of gain a bit of traction that way. And so I suppose he kind of wised up really and saw an opportunity that he didn't want to throw away. So kind of turned his life around, I suppose.

12:46You know, sorry to use a cliche, but yeah. And tell me more about Prison Cake. In prison, he used to do these whip rounds where his friends inside would kind of save some of the food that they got given at mealtimes. And then he'd cook up a big thing for everyone to have a communal meal or whatever. He used to also, on special occasions, he'd make a prison cake, which quite a complex thing to do. Putting a can of condensed milk in a kettle and leaving it to cook in there for a long time. Ages and ages, hours and hours, and it would turn into caramel in the can. And then he'd kind of mix that with flour and so on and whatever else they could get their hands on.

13:20in the kitchen, turn it into a kind of tray bake, I suppose. Sounds quite nice, really, or at least certainly kind of nice in the circumstances. So what's he trying to achieve with this new restaurant? There isn't a Caribbean restaurant with a Michelin star in London or the UK, and he wants to be first to achieve that. And it's a really good point. I mean, jerk chicken, rice and peas, delicious. But a lot of people see Caribbean food as just that. A lot of people don't kind of know the intricacies, the flavours, the history, and all the dishes that fall under kind of the Caribbean umbrella, I suppose.

13:52So he wants to introduce different techniques and flavors, bring it to a wider audience. But also he uses the word elevate in terms of kind of push it towards a little bit more of a refined and sophisticated area and use his kind of French techniques and stuff that he learned in Top Kitchen, some of the Michelin starred in kind of carving out a bit of a niche in that regard. And more broadly, that's happening. You know, other chefs like Jason Howard, Dom Taylor, Jason Howard's been at the forefront of it as well. He's got a restaurant called Flavour Pepper, which is also in South London, and that's pushing boundaries a little bit.

14:23And yeah, just shining a light on it, on a really amazing part of British food culture. There's a huge community, obviously, particularly in places like Peckham, Brixton. Caribbean communities are cooking great things, and I think they should be given a little bit more credence. So will you be checking out his place then, and can you tell us when it opens? Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, Natty's food is brilliant and really exciting and new and innovative. the restaurant space is quite a big one and so he's put a lot of kind of money time and effort into this definitely a place that i'll be heading down to and i hope other people go and try out as well the restaurant opens on october the 22nd there's a website up and running so you can look at the menu some of the dishes like you know sound really exciting i would say price wise it's kind of mid-range restaurant he wants it to be affordable so as many people can come as possible but obviously it's using good ingredients and a lot of flair going into it so i think starters are around sort of the 10, 12 pound mark and main course is about 20, which is kind of similar to a lot of these kind of cool places that are opening around London.

15:24And that's The Standard. For all the latest news, head to standard.co.uk. If you'd like to get in touch, please do drop us a line at podcasts at standard.co.uk. We'll be back here tomorrow at 5pm. We'll see you then. you