The Jewish community reacts to Manchester’s synagogue attack

0:02Hi, I'm Charlie Duffield and welcome back to The Standard Podcast. If you're new here, hit follow and give us a rating. For all the latest news, head to standard.co.uk. Coming up later in the show. It's a big day for Swifties, as today pop megastar Taylor Swift has released her 12th record, The Life of a Showgirl. But does it live up to the hype? And obviously social media is an echo chamber. What I'm getting on my feed is a lot of criticism. People are going through a cost of living crisis. People are scared at events of the world and then you have this artist who is putting out multiple variations of every single record.

0:46I think there's not much sympathy for the super rich at the moment. She's still making music about how she feels like an underdog and that no one likes her.

1:01But first, the two victims of yesterday's attack on a synagogue in Manchester have been named by police as 53-year-old Adrian Dolby and 66-year-old Melvin Kravitz. The men were killed when an attacker used a car to ram into the grounds of Heaton Park Synagogue, then stabbed worshippers on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar. One of the victims killed in the synagogue attack was hit by police gunfire as officers shot the attacker, Greater Manchester Police say. Chief Rabbi Sir Ephraim Mervis said this is a very dark time ahead of visiting Manchester, as he referred to an unrelenting wave of hate against Jews.

1:41While Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer has told the Jewish community he'll do everything in his power to give them security. Greater Manchester Police have said that extra police will be deployed across the city today. Here's Home Secretary Shabana Mahmoud speaking today on BBC Breakfast. After such a devastating attack, it's a human reaction to think about what you can and cannot do. What I want to reassure our Jewish community of is that the policing resources are in place. We are working very closely with the Community Security Trust because we want our community to feel that they can go about their daily business.

2:19And I would want to see people going about their daily business. I acknowledge that there will be fear. And that is why I say I do not want Jewish people in our country to feel like they have to live a smaller Jewish life, that they cannot go about their business and practice their faith and go to their communal institutions in freedom. We will do whatever it takes to ensure their safety and security. It's why we're working so closely with the community, with the Community Security Trust and with our police to make sure that they do feel that sense of safety. It comes as a new survey conducted by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research finds that 35 % of Jews felt unsafe in Britain and 32 % reported at least one anti-Semitic incident in 2024.

3:04Joining us now is the British Jewish community activist and leader Amos Schonfield, who also runs the refugee youth charity Second Home. Amos, I know this is a difficult subject but can you share how you reacted to the news of the Manchester synagogue attack? Like many people I heard about the attack on Heaton Park synagogue in a synagogue of my own I was in a morning service at my community and the rabbi made an announcement and just told us the first thing that we'd heard that there was an attack that several people had been stabbed and we knew nothing else and it it was something that shook me but I wasn't myself shocked or surprised.

3:43It's something that ultimately felt inevitable that at some point there would be such a direct murder, such a direct attack on British Jews at a time of prayer. It only found out later the extent of the attack as the news sort of filtered and came through. And it was something that was on my mind in the conversations that were happening for the rest of the day on Yom Kippur, which is a day where Jews are gathered for all day, you know, the entire day. we're coming in and out of the community, out of the buildings from 9am until 7.30. So coming in in the morning, I was let in with one set of security arrangements.

4:22And by the afternoon, the front door of the community was locked and someone had to knock the door to let me in. Suddenly, you could sense that palpable realisation that things were more serious. The Jewish community is one that takes its security very seriously, based off there being anti-Semitic attacks elsewhere in the world across Europe where communal buildings are targeted there's knowledge that we have to take our security seriously things that I take for granted are the you know the volunteers who do the security for a synagogue the fact that we have volunteers who do security for a synagogue in and of itself but those people wear stab vests that when there's a Jewish event, a talk, they never say where it is.

5:09They always say a London venue, a central London venue, so that you can't know in advance where the venue is. That we're always told not to gather outside our community buildings because we don't want to be a target. We want to disperse. There's this constant sense that our security is important because we want to avoid such things. It was something that has left a lot of people shaken and perturbed, but it was something that we knew, ultimately there was a chance that something like this would inevitably happen. Why do you say it felt inevitable? Tell me more about that. I think one of the feelings that I've shared with others and people shared with me is that looking at the pictures from Heaton Park Synagogue, it really could have been any synagogue.

5:50There's no rhyme or reason as to why that particular building, that particular community, there's just a sense that it really could have in some ways been any of us. And that an attack on one synagogue is an attack that reverberates through the community, partly because, you know, it could have been any place and partly the Jewish community is small. And so we all have these kinds of connections. I know people who grew up going to Heaton Park Synagogue, who have family members who go to the synagogue down the road. And the people who are closest to this have all shared, as horrible as this is, this is also a moment when we have to not let ourselves be divided, that we have to continue these strong communal links that make being Jewish in Britain such a wonderful experience.

6:34It doesn't feel like it right now, but Britain is a wonderful place to be Jewish. And partly that is because of those rich connections that we have in our communities. Police have now said one of the victims was killed by an armed officer. What's your reaction to this? It's something that I'm struggling with because I'm incredibly grateful that armed police were able to be there on the scene within minutes of the attack. I'm incredibly grateful that the attack was condemned by so many. But to hear that rapid response led to someone being killed themselves is heartbreaking. And I think that things are still so early and still so raw that we'll know so much more in the next few days and weeks.

7:15With the increasing normalisation of far-right and racist narratives in the UK, how would you like to see incidents like this addressed? I happened to be in London on the day of the far-right protests. It was really scary. We can sort of feel like the fabric of things here in the UK is changing, things are sort of ripping at the seams. And I think that there's a need to really focus on community cohesion, because as we learn more about this terror attack, and it seems like it wasn't necessarily from the classic far right as we understand it. The need for us to build community connections so that people can learn more about one another is incredibly important.

7:53I work in the refugee sector as someone who is very publicly identifiably Jewish. Everyone knows that I'm Jewish and I'm so often the first Jew that they meet. And that interaction is so powerful and so important because without that, all you get is ignorance. So, you know, the fact that we are able to speak to one another, meet one another is crucial. And I think that a strategy that is from the top, but works with communities at the grassroots, to build those connections is absolutely essential. Finally, as I said in the introduction, the UK's chief rabbi referred to an unrelenting wave of hatred against Jews.

8:29Would you agree with that statement? I have many mixed feelings about the chief rabbi. He's the chief rabbi of a different part of the Jewish community to me. But it is clear that antisemitism and antisemitic incidents have been at their height, certainly in my lifetime over the past couple of years, since October 7th. It's more often than not been much more sort of banal incidents, whether that's online, hate that is painful, I've received it, but it goes. So in the past few weeks, there was a man who's found to be smearing feces on Jewish community buildings. We have to understand this within both the height of antisemitic incidents that we're seeing, and also the rising and unrelenting right, you know, hate and bigotry that many minority communities are facing at the moment.

9:14Regardless of where you are on the periphery of British society, it's harder to be you than it was a couple of years ago. And I think that's an important lesson for everyone thinking about how to respond to this, that right now, it's the Jewish community that's hurting. And in the future, there'll be other communities hurting to let's go to a break coming up in part two swifties rejoice taylor swift released a brand new album today and she's here in the uk we'll see you back here in just a moment welcome back today's the day taylor swift fans have been waiting for as the star's 12th studio album life of a showgirl is here the 12th track record is expected to top charts around the world and features a collaboration with US pop star Sabrina Carpenter.

10:01Swift first announced the release of the album on her then-boyfriend, now-fiancé, Travis Kelsey's sports podcast, New Heights, which garnered half a billion views. Following the singer's ambitious era's tours, it was thought the star might take some time out, so the news came as somewhat of a surprise. The album has been pre-saved more than 5 million times on Spotify, and today in an Instagram post, the pop star told fans the record is a self-portrait. Here's a clip from the title track, The Fate of Ophelia.

11:04And joining us now is The Standard's culture writer, India Block. India, there has been a huge build-up to this album, and it was billed as a return to Taylor Swift's pop era. Now it's finally released. Did it meet these expectations? It's definitely a return to pop. She's working with Max Martin A producer who she hasn't worked with since Reputation Which came out in 2017 She's been doing a lot of work with Jack Antonoff since Who's also working at the moment I think with Lord Did Sabrina Carpenter's most recent album Probably a little bit overexposed at the moment It's exciting to see her work with someone different But I'm not sure it's a return to form Because the lyrics are not going down well Let's talk more about that Taylor's lyricism has long been lauded as a cut above the rest but I was really disappointed with the writing on this album What did you think?

11:59Yeah I completely agree with you I think it's tricky She shines when she is mining her own life for details that are also relatable but I think that becomes harder and harder as you become more and more successful wealthier and wealthier This whole mood she was creating the pictures she was putting out The title The Life of a Showgirl I think was meant as sort of the seedier, less happy side of being a performer Kind of going back to this Hollywood idea of the showgirl who's always beautiful and covered in sparkles and feather But she's got a string of broken hearts and is struggling But that is quite a hard sell when you are a billionaire who's coming off the back of an incredibly successful tour who's positioned yourself as America's sweetheart dating the football star.

12:51It's hard for any artist when they're not heartbroken to find as much material. And she seems super happy with Travis. But then we also get an entire song called Wood that's dedicated to discussing the size of his penis and how it reminds her of a giant redwood tree. And I think she's also trying to lean into this sort of more sexy, mature image, which, again, I feel has been a long time coming. She got famous in her teens. She's always had quite a squeaky clean image. Understandably, you'd want to grow out of that a bit. Her sort of way with lyrics doesn't necessarily lend itself to those more mature themes.

13:35When she was doing Folklore and Evermore, those kind of twin surprise albums that came out during the pandemic, she'd moved away from this autobiographical writing. but then that came roaring back with the tortured poets department went into her breakup with Massey Healy which sort of comes up again in this album because she's also taking pot shots at Charlie XCX which I feel as Brits we cannot stand for. Now that she's settled down a lot of people have been speculating what this might mean for her music and songwriting do you think she could benefit from taking a breather? I think she does deserve a break I think she's been going at breakneck pace.

14:12This is an insane number of albums to have released since the pandemic. She did this massive tour and the era's tour was incredible. We're all human. It's important for artists to take time before they create their next thing. And also I think it stops them being overexposed. I think there's this fear that if you are on top and you take time away from the spotlight, that spotlight will shift onto someone else and you'll never get it back. Sometimes having a little bit of mystery, having a little bit of time, having time to sort of relearn who you are as an artist. I mean, like Laura Marling became a mother and she came back and is creating amazing music.

14:50I think there's also the flip side to that and her sort of Travis Kelsey era is that she is backtracking towards being America's sweetheart figure. We had a few years where she was really rallying for feminist causes for lgbt causes for the democrats and now america is under trump things are getting pretty scary there the circles that she's been shown moving in through her connections to travis kelsey the other wives and girlfriends of the NFL stars, podcasting friends of his are quite like MAGA people. So I think people are also worrying that maybe she's becoming less political to protect herself as an artist, but maybe who she's exposed to.

15:38Whereas I think when she was dating Joe Alwyn and Mattie Healy and Harry Styles and all those British guys, like they probably showed her a different perspective. Finally you gave this album just one star Did you like any of the songs? Canceled is kind of a bop But then the lyrics are terrible Just using the word girl boss But it was one where I was like Oh I could dance to this Elizabeth Taylor was a disappointment I think you could have done something more interesting there Hang on There is one Eldest Daughter That sort of interpolates George Michael's father figure Such a great song And I think it's really interesting When artists do that sort of thing So it's not just like sampling a sound.

16:22It's kind of reinterpreting the beat. She did that with Max Martin. Reputations, Look What You Made Me Do, That's Too Sexy by Right Said Fred. I mean, again, I think the problem is that Taylor doesn't have that kind of raw sexiness that George Michael had, even though he's kind of pretending to be singing about a woman in that song. But I think that's a really interesting song. that's sort of like taking pushes, stretching herself a bit there. Although again, it's like, oh, the eldest daughter thing. Is this an attempt to be relatable to internet conversations? I don't think there's anything that like super stands out.

17:05And that's The Standard. For all the latest news, head to standard.co.uk. If you'd like to get in touch, please do drop us a line at podcasts at standard.co.uk. We'll be back here on Monday at 5pm. We'll see you then.