Who will win Hampstead Heath’s café battle?

0:05Today's episode of The Standard comes with a warning. The tea will be served extra hot. Daisy Green's takeover of Hampstead Heath's cafes has sparked bullying accusations, celebrity-led petitions and now a lawsuit. So do Londoners actually want upscale park cafes? Coming up, who will win Hampstead Heath's cafe battle?

0:37North Londoners cannot help but weigh in on the cafe war. I'll catch you up. Hoxton Beach Cafe has operated three cafes in Hampstead Heath over the past 10 years. The City of London Corporation recently ended Hoxton Beach's tenancy, along with two other businesses, and awarded the sites to the popular Mediterranean-Australian-inspired cafe group Daisy Green. To tell the tale, I'm joined by Niva Yadav, the Standards Trainee Journalist, who has been covering this story. Hi, Niva. Thanks so much for joining me on The Standard Podcast. I'm obsessed with this story. Me too. So this battle for Hampstead Heath's cafe spots, everyone's talking about it.

1:20It's really kind of captured the zeitgeist. But Niva, what are they actually arguing over? They're arguing over a tender for three cafes in the northwest London area that has been handed over to them by the City of London Corporation. you've got Hoxton Beach who have operated these three cafes for the best part of a decade and now the City of London Corporation who own these park cafes has said sorry we're giving it to Daisy Green instead. So how have Hoxton Beach responded to this? Yeah so Hoxton Beach is owned by a couple who live locally and they're understandably pretty furious this is their livelihood They've made a really great community around their three cafe sites.

2:05And they're pretty livid. They're now filing a judicial review saying they were blindsided in this process. They feel like they're being priced out and they feel like they've been hard done by. So I understand you've spoken to Emma Fernandez, one of the owners of Hoxton Beach. Let's hear what she has to say about the lease application process from the City of London Corporation. So the avenue that our lawyers are pursuing is that there was no public consultation from City of London and no engagement with or with their own consultative committee, apparently as well, as to whether people wanted Daisy Greenchain to take over these cafes.

2:52The tendering process was not consultative, that it was opaque, not really transparent. And so we're going into a phase of the lawyers are writing to each other about that. if City of London had engaged with us and said, look, how much could you pay if we gave you some long lease? We could have probably come up with a plan and increased rent or something. I don't know, like some sort of regular negotiation. But that didn't take place. That's my thoughts on the financial aspect of it. What I think is pretty special about this story is the way it's galvanised locals. I mean, other than everybody talking about, there are people who are really doing something about it.

3:45Yeah, I mean, it's mental. I didn't realise how passionate people really are over their park cafes. People have really rallied around Hoxton Beach, even Benedict Cumberbatch is behind this. And we know from kind of history that these kind of movements can really have a great impact. I mean, in 2016, Benugo actually was awarded the same tender for the same three cafes. And because of kind of local backlash, they eventually pulled out. And so the locals have a real say here. And I guess that's kind of what they're trying to do again. So it seems like it is actually a possibility that this decision could be turned around.

4:27What do you know about Daisy Green's proposal? So it's really hard to say because the nature of a tendering process is that you don't know what other your competitors are proposing. That's just how it works. But what we do know is that Daisy Green have pledged to invest a lot of money not only into the cafe, but into the green spaces around Hampstead Heath generally. And so that's a very attractive proposal for the City of London Corporation, because they've consistently said that the upkeep and maintenance of the park or the Hampstead Heath, it comes at no additional cost to the taxpayer. And so having someone come in and say they're going to kind of renovate this space, rejuvenate it, reinvigorate it, that's super attractive.

5:09And there's a lot to be won for the City of London Corporation in comparison to Hoxton Beach, who maybe don't have that same, I guess financial capacity to do that. So it boils down to money? Hoxton Beach say yes. They think they've been priced out. And understandably, you know, they don't have the financial capacity that Daisy Green has. And because they've been on this tenancy at will agreement, which is essentially a short term lease, it means that they can't take out loans from the bank. So they can't necessarily do all the things that Daisy Green have pledged to do. but also their proposal wasn't even shortlisted and the City of London Corporation has said that it considered 30 bids and that it that tenancy at will agreements were not necessarily sustainable and so it must mean that potentially something in Hoxton Beach's proposal wasn't quite up to scratch.

6:00Prue Freeman is a renowned entrepreneur in London she's done a great job with Daisy Green and so you could potentially also argue there that what she the value that she was going to bring to the community maybe had something to do with it. It sounds like City of London Corporation weren't, you know, didn't have much appetite to keep Hoxton Beach Cafe on despite the impassioned outreach of the locals. Has the City of London said anything else about the tender application process? Now this is where it gets really juicy. They've released an open letter saying a couple of things. The first thing they've said is that this is just Hoxton Beach.

6:39They're on their own. They've come to agreements with the other operators. So the Doria family have come to a separate agreement with Daisy Green. Cosmin Stuparo, the third operator at NW5, has been given another cafe. So this judicial review is being solely handled by Hoxton Beach. The second thing, which is wild, is they've asked people to stop bullying. Apparently, locals are so riled up over this issue that they have been harassing, bullying, spreading lies about Daisy Green and the City of London Corporation have had enough. So Niva, you asked Emma from Hoxton Beach about the bullying accusations.

7:19Here's what she had to say. I know that there's been criticisms made that people were actually going on site, on Daisy Green sites, what it's like there and have taken pictures of it. but I don't think that's bullying I think it's just normal to like inquire what your local cafe will likely to be when if it's taken over by this chain I that they're not happy and they don't want them there and that they strongly disagree with that decision I don't know if this is what they call bullying or if there's more if it's like personal attacks but I'm not in charge of like I don't know I you can't help but feel really sorry for Emma and her husband Patrick it's a really dire situation but I don't think they're quite aware of just how far some of their their fans I suppose you could call them and their community are taking it I don't think it's necessarily being relayed on to them that this is how passionate people have gotten I mean the interesting thing as well is it's Hoxton Beach is an independent cafe um with a following Daisy Green is also an independent cafe with a following.

8:35One of the biggest misconceptions in this whole kind of cafe war is that Daisy Green is a chain, and actually it's not. Yes, it has far more, I guess, available funds, but ultimately, like Hoxton Beach, it was set up by a couple, Prue Freeman and her husband, Tom Onions. Sorry, we need to just talk about Tom Onions. Is that not the perfect name for somebody that works in a cafe. It's super fitting. But yes, they've been open since 2012, similarly to Hoxton Beach. And they've also started, like Hoxton Beach, as a kiosk selling things from a very small stall. They've just expanded at different rates.

9:13And Daisy Green has expanded at an astonishing rate. I mean, not hard to find if you're in a nice area. I don't live so far from Johnny Green myself and I have had a very good meal there. It is delicious but actually it's that food that I think locals don't want in their park interestingly enough. I can imagine the last thing that locals want is the bottomless brunch crowd. And I think people are also worried about prices that come alongside that soaring prices for a flat white I think that's a big concern but that also might be where people have got it twisted and haven't quite done their homework.

9:50So I actually spoke to Prue Freeman. This is the first time that she's spoken to the press about the cafe wars that they've been battling since December. And what she has to say paints a pretty different picture to the one that we've been seeing on the social media.

10:11We'll take a quick break. Coming up, Niva speaks to Prue Freeman, the co-founder of Daisy Green, who won the lease for Hampstead Heath's cafes. She speaks out for the first time about plans for the cafe takeovers and her experience with the City of London's application process and the bullying accusations that have followed.

10:36Welcome back. Let's hear Niva's interview with Pru Freeman. My name's Pru Freeman. I'm the co-founder of Daisy Green. So I guess the first thing would be a lot of people call Daisy Green a chain. But you've said you started it with your husband, not too dissimilar, I guess, from Hoxton Beach. I think, you know, there's a lot of talk about, you know, a David and Goliath situation, which really, I think, couldn't be further from the truth. We really are, you know, two independent businesses who are almost being pitched at each other. Why had you picked this particular spot? Why did you decide to go for this tender?

11:09I think we had an affiliation really that goes back, you know, to COVID times. and I think had my first baby in COVID. And every day we'd walk from Malabone up to the Heaks and we would spend a lot of time in Hampstead. And so when the cafes came up through the tender process, I think we looked and thought, you know, it's something that we thought we could do a really good job of, invest in the cafes for, you know, the next 40 years and have a mark on the community over time. And do you think it's fair to say that tendering process, I mean, Hoxton Beach have said it's, they lack transparency. they filed this lawsuit because they're saying it's it is that a fair comment do you think I think from our perspective we went into the tender as we would any other tender and obviously there's a lot of um confidentiality around that but we really were on a very level playing field and that we didn't know anything either we put forward our tender based on the criteria that we were given um it's very difficult to see how there wasn't transparency in that process from our perspective.

12:11And obviously, since being awarded the tender, you faced a significant amount of backlash to the point where the corporation have said, please stop bullying Daisy Green. Have you felt this bullying? What can you tell us about these bullying claims? I think obviously the spaces are very special, very iconic places which people have a deep connection with. And I think sometimes, probably before the open letter, things were just getting very heightened but I think since that has happened it's been much more balanced in terms of the feedback we're getting still you know a lot of emotion and a lot of passion and that's really important that we as well coming in can understand what people want and what they really don't want and we're really listening to that.

12:53And so have you had instances of people coming to Daisy Green and taking photos or existing stores that sort of thing? I mean I think you know it is a very emotional situation. I don't really want to heighten things further on that side. And have you reached out to Hoxton Beach? Yes, we've reached out to Hoxton Beach on a number of occasions since we were made aware of the tender in December as well, you know, at the same time as everyone else. And it hasn't been the right moment for them to engage with us. But obviously, we would like to when that timing is right. I think in December, we reached out to each of the operators and we had really collaborative discussions with the Doria family at Parliament Hill.

13:41Obviously they had been in that location for 45 years and it was a slightly different situation I think where Alberto's just turned 80 and we were all at his his 80th birthday and what was really important for them and for us was that all of the staff who'd been there like Maria's been there 34 years that they had a place which was still going to be home for them and a career that was meaningful and so we worked together with them and we've managed to have all of the staff continuing on with Daisy I mean obviously we're looking at all of the salaries going up to the London living wage we've taken on board things they know about the cafe pasta dishes that everyone loves the pricing we've worked with with the cafe and with the local community and I think that scenario is one where actually we've had a really positive outcome because the family feel comfortable handing over to us.

14:31And we've really made a bespoke offering that we think over time people in Parliament Hill will come to love. And would you be hopeful that that's the kind of agreement you could come to with Emma and Patrick? I think, I mean, we would, yes, you know, that would be the ideal scenario, something where we can find, where everyone can find something that can work for everyone. locals fear that Daisy Green is this maybe will be expensive for that little park cafe area and that prices will go up and that kind of thing which you think those are fair kind of comments to make I think that is a big misconception that people sometimes see some of our locations and think we're going to be serving you know a steak or a big brunch dish in these locations which clearly just doesn't make sense for what they are.

15:22Every time people ask me that, I always say the same thing in that we put in a tender for each of these cafes in the location that they're at. So on the pricing side, we are committed to making and keeping it affordable. For example, you know, a flat white in Parliament Hill and likely in the Lido as well, if not cheaper, is£3.40. And we don't charge for alternative milks and, you know, relative to the existing operator that is at you know cheaper or you know a similar price to where they are

15:58and what do you say to people who say this all boils down to see greener out pricing Hoxton Beach Cafe and you've got more money behind you the pitch we put together the tender we put together really was hugely focused around things we're doing you know in terms of the community in terms of menu, in terms of pricing, yes, investment in these spaces is needed. I think some of them haven't had any investment for 40 years. And so there's a lot of capital investment to go into infrastructure, kitchen extraction, heating and cooling, flooring, a lot of overall investment. I mean, there's been a lot of talk about Daisy Green having extravagant fit outs and velvet bonquets and things like that.

16:40And obviously, that's not our plan. You know, the cafes are going to be very accessible for people with dogs and babies and muddy boots and cold water swimmers coming out of the pool so I mean I think saying it comes down to money is is definitely from our from our perspective had we have put in a tender which just had a number I don't you know I can't see how we would have won and do you is there any part of you that maybe feels sorry for Hoxie yeah yes I I mean I think you know the situation for Emma and Patrick I really am sensitive and sympathize with where they are as a family business like ours and you know you put your heart and soul into these businesses and and yes I'm hugely sympathetic and that's one of the reasons I really would love to to meet and speak with them as well.

17:28Do you have kind of any I guess a first look or like a sneak peek as to what Daisy Green one might look like when it's at and also what it might be called? I mean in terms of the names the names will stay um as they are so no daisy green names coming to to the heath so you know parliament hill cafe will stay as that name in terms of aesthetics so obviously in terms of our pitch each of the locations has quite a different look and feel relative to the audience in terms of parliament hill which is obviously the one we're working on at the moment it does have quite a natural feel linking into to the heath and the surroundings.

18:09When can you connect the cafe? Yes so at the moment basically there is a temporary provision in Parliament Hill which has opened for coffee, ice cream, pastries so that there is still an amenity in the park and our plan would be that that would be similar across the other cafes as they come up and as we go in for refurbishment. I mean, our plan is to get them open as soon as we possibly can and definitely in time for the warmer weather that's coming up in the busy time. And I know from what we've heard, Hoxton Beach have an idea of refusing to leave the premises. Is that true and does that concern you?

18:48I think where we are is, again, in a process which is quite emotional and we just need to work through what is happening. I think, you know, whatever is going on between the City of London and Hoxton Beach is between them. And I think as Daisy Green, I think we've sat sort of on the outside of that and will continue to do so and see what the outcome of that process is.

19:17So Neva, this story piqued both of our interests. And having spoken to Emma and Prue, How do you feel about it now? And why do you think the story spun so out of control? It's a difficult one because ultimately what you've got here is two family businesses. Yes, granted, they're on fairly different scales, but you've got two family businesses. And you've got Emma and her husband who are now refusing to leave Hoxton Beach. And they've been very vocal. And they've got lots of locals behind them. And this story has just exploded on social media. And when we first kind of we first picked up on this story, it's really easy to get to get engrossed in it and to think of this as being just another corporate coming along and wiping out independent coffee shops.

20:07But actually, when you look a bit closer, it boils down to maybe just a better proposal, a better offering from Daisy Green, something that they can bring that maybe Hoxton Beach can't. And I don't think there will be a winner in this in this cafe war. I think it'll be difficult for Daisy Green to take over a cafe which is so loved by so many people. And I also think it'll be difficult for Hoxton Beach to walk away from what they've built. Well, thank you so much, Neva, for coming on the podcast and doing this incredible reporting for us. Thank you so much for having me.

20:49And that's The Standard. For all the latest news, head to standard.co.uk. if you're new here hit follow and give us a rating if you'd like to get in touch email us at podcasts at standard.co.uk we'll be back here tomorrow morning see you then