#210 - Commodity Boards 101 with California Walnut Board and Doosra

23:51Isn't it amazing how serendipitous this world is when you're like, because I was at that conference too at NOSH, right? And they were doing a presentation and I stopped in on it, mainly because I liked the look of the googly eyes on the walnut. That was very appealing to me. I stopped in. You know, you like, you never could predict that though. You're there and you're just kind of like there with an open mind and then you find out about walnuts and meet them and then they just happen to be these very deep walnut experts who then can go out and just find you the perfect thing that you're looking for it's just like man it's a very beautiful world sometimes when you're just working on stuff like that and meet the right people who really are there to help you and everything just kind of comes together i think that's what you and so many of these folks have done i think so many founders or product developers have a sense of what they want to create right but there's a difference between being a chef and a food scientist so definitely between being someone who has created something culturally and then understanding how to navigate in a different environment a different culture with ingredients that could work just as well and so i think just putting yourself out there and trying new things could lead to these wonderful certain dittismans and i really like your approach about actually testing the product with real consumers to get feedback i think that it just almost makes too much sense but i think most people don't do it or don't have the capability to do it.

25:07Like, no, we're just like, that's what they want. And this is a good one. And now we're going to launch it and everyone's going to like it without actually having the chance to get that feedback cycle. And also like, you know, I was talking about the flavor before I mentioned like a symphony. It's interesting to just think about, you know, you with your background, you have a lot of skills that a lot of founders may not come with. They may come with passion, but you know, they may not have this culinary background where I think for you, it's interesting because I feel like, you know, you're not just like a musician who understands one component, like one of the ingredients in the snack mix, you're actually the conductor.

25:39And like, you know, you're not just evaluating whether you should have a product with walnuts in it, but also like what are the particular properties and taste characteristics of that actual walnut that are then going to work with the overall orchestra to create the right experience when it's all put together for the consumer, which is just very impressive to me. It's just hard for me, for myself to imagine developing that skill set where I could just understand the whole composition of the things, thus what elements I would be looking for. I appreciate that, Daniel. But when I went into this, when I first was thinking about this skew, walnuts weren't on my radar.

26:15I had identified something else to go in there already. And I had already started going down that route. I was like, okay, we're going to do this because it has dairy. It's got that element to it. And we pivoted completely because we found something that worked better. And I also like that it's a very complementary skew, right? Because I think a lot of times people are just like, well, we'll just launch this next thing. But then, you know, it can cannibalize or it might not be the right thing. But, you know, you listen to your consumers and you found something that will really help a lot of them that may not be able to go for the first one if they have a peanut allergy or a dairy allergy or something like that, or just a preference.

26:50So I think that's very cool. Keith, you're listening to all of this. Is this a very common story? Like, yeah, it does work like this and people find us and then they're very excited in this way or it's never a common story because every brand we work with is different you know in this sense i think how you describing karnik as a conductor is is perfect you know after that session i remember talking with our our chef in residence you know at the conference and there was kind of a vision going where he wanted to go and the whole dairy thing was was really great for us to hear because that's something that we're really starting to make a lot of progress on is just using walnut cream as a, you know, plant-based dairy alternative in a whole lot of products.

27:33So the fact that he saw that vision and knowing that it wasn't going to be just a traditional trail mix, nothing wrong with a traditional snack or anything like that. But we love that this was something that we could align in a completely unique product because, you know, as far as we know, there's no other snack product on the marketplace with skinless walnuts. This is a very first. So this is not something you're going to go into any, you know, 7-Eleven and grab and find this. I mean, you have to go to Deucer to find this product. And I think it's fantastic because from our standpoint, you know, as you know, whenever you taste it, it's pretty unbelievable.

28:12So, you know, we're big believers in it ourselves here. So it's easy for us to go, OK, this is something that we want to fully support because it's such a wonderful, wonderful product and it's unique. which is always great for the market. I think if I could jump in there, Daniel, I think the real benefit of working with someone like Keith and the Walnut board is that they're representing two sides of the equation, right? They want to help the primary constituent are the growers trying to figure out how to take this incredible product. And then you've got the brand coming in with no idea of what they want.

28:45And their real superpower is finding ways to mix it because there might be innovation that the Walnut folks have come up with that are not, they're not advertising it, right? But I'm just giving them a problem to solve. And they're saying, we can solve a little walnut. I think that's really the value of working with the board. That is cool. And actually, in the webinar that we did the other day, it was funny because one of the people attending the webinar from our community was like, hey, my dad actually invented the whole method for doing skinless walnuts. It was very funny that she was in there.

29:15Also quite serendipitous, I would say. That was Sue. And she sells those skinless walnuts just by themselves, not in anything. But very, very cool to have her there also growing in the Central Valley in California. Also, Keith, man, I'm hearing about nuts all the time right now. Definitely something that's trending. Like for sure, a lot of different kinds of nuts and people, I think, associating different benefits with them. What is going on in the world of nuts right now? And, you know, specifically walnuts. How come people are interested in looking at them for a variety of different reasons?

29:51but what makes consumers likely to pick up a product right now that has walnuts? Yeah, I think it's a couple different things. You know, first off, especially if you're talking about a food product, it's a lot of the times it's a texture. Walnuts have a really unique texture. They're not too hard. They're not too soft. They kind of, they're crispy, they're crunchy, but then they're not, you know, they're also chewy. So it's a really dynamic kind of texture. So that is kind of starting point for a lot of people whenever they want to use walnuts is we need that texture, whether it's in a food bar, whether it's, you know, in a, you know, vegan bolognese sauce where you're using walnuts as kind of that meat replacement.

30:35it. So, you know, we're seeing a lot of people kind of going to texture, but then we're also seeing just as many people looking at it as a whole food natural ingredient that's going to provide that texture, but it's also going to provide nutrition benefits, whether we're talking about the omega-3 fatty acids, the cognitive research that's coming out on the cognitive benefits of walnuts. So it's kind of the whole package, you know, you've got this one ingredient that can provide flavor, texture, and health benefits, and people are familiar with it. So it's that familiarity also, I think, is why, you know, nuts in general are becoming more popular in packaged foods, and walnuts specifically, is because people kind of trust, you know, they trust that this is, I know what I'm getting, but it can also be kind of new to me.

31:26So it's, I think all those things kind of mixed together is really kind of boosting walnuts right now in the food and beverage industry. That's awesome. Also, when we did the webinar, I just was really interested to see the variety of like tastes that you get and especially the top pairings that you see with walnuts also. And I know there was some pretty interesting stuff in there like dark chocolate, you know, because I think a lot of pairings can make sweet products taste more savory. And so yeah, dark chocolate, vanilla, sesame cayenne, sea salt caramel coffee candied orange cinnamon chai spice all of that stuff with walnuts being really frequent bearings was super interesting and i also just was i was really interested just to see the diversity within walnuts because i don't know that much about walnuts coming into this and i'm like like there are walnuts right and but actually no you are in the world of walnuts now and there's now you're on a journey because there are like you know you have this very cool chart that's showing all of the different sizes and colors of walnuts and i mean this is like more complex than you know wine and like ryan grapes and stuff and then and like the whole flavor wheel experience that you guys have that just shows all of the different aroma profiles of walnuts and you know textures and tastes and all of that stuff can you tell everyone a little bit about that yeah and that's it's one of the first things whenever we did the flavor wheel That was kind of recently as we started kind of bolstering our culinary expertise in-house and go down this route of how do we work with food brands to best support them.

33:03And it was funny. You know, we would even talk to walnut growers themselves, you know, growers that have been around walnuts their whole life. And you ask them, what does a walnut taste like? And they have to sit and think about it. You know, they don't. It's hard to describe. And so we were like, well, we need a flavor wheel. Once we sat down and developed the flavor wheel, it was something where you realize, you know, I've always known it's a complex flavor. You know, the mixture of the, you know, the fatty acids, the oils and the meat, as well as kind of the tannins and the pellicle and things like that.

33:35It really creates this unique, complex flavor profile. But to sit down and think about it in terms of not only how it pairs, but also how the pea size even impacts that flavor. So you can buy walnuts, everything from ground walnuts that are used as like a pie crust or an ice cream all the way up to, you know, a full half. And that's even going to taste different. You know, if you use small pieces in something, it's going to have a bit of a different taste. Then we've got varietals, we've got colors, everything like that. So it's great from a standpoint of, sure, you can just order walnuts. You can just put walnuts in a product and it'll be great.

34:17But, you know, you can also, if you really want to tailor each bite that somebody is going to be tasting, you know, you can get a certain piece size to where, you know, okay, if I'm making a bar, I want every single bite to have a walnut in it, not every other bite. So you can do those kinds of things. So there's a whole world out there of ways we can sort of use complementary flavors as well as piece size and even color to kind of deliver somebody the exact flavor profile they're looking for. And it's pretty interesting to see just how many products out there are using walnuts in different ways.

34:53I know during our webinar, we had so many people chiming in in the chat with stuff that I was not expecting. There were like walnut meatballs. And I know there's like, you know, plant based bolognese pasta sauce using walnuts. And the Amy's Amy's has a walnut and quinoa veggie burger, I think. And like, you know, walnut butter and like obviously the milked walnuts that you get from Elmhurst has like a walnut latte. I mean, I know you, Keith, you've probably seen a lot of stuff out there. And it's even, you know, we export a lot of walnuts, you know, worldwide. And so, you know, we work with partners and countries all over the world and to see some of the ways they use walnuts in, say, Japan or India or the Middle East or Europe.

35:40It's, you know, it's completely different to how we use walnuts. So we see, you know, especially in a lot of plant based dishes, even a lot of things like fish stews, you'll see walnuts in them, all packaged products. So it's one of the benefits I have is I get to see all these products from all over the world that have walnuts in them. And it really helps us kind of bring new ideas and potentially new innovative formats to, you know, food brands here in the U.S. We'll be right back. Are you going to crush it on Amazon this year? It's such an important channel, but it's so hard to do alone. And most agencies are a total ripoff.

36:18We can't afford$5 ,000 a month and a commission on our sales. they just don't get it. That's why I love our partners at Daybreak. They are full service, meaning they do the creative work, the listings, the logistics, and of course, all the ads, all with the most reasonable retainer out there. I work with them personally. I'm so grateful we have such a good partner to recommend out to you, our community. They do evaluate your product first to see if it might be a fit. So if you want them to have a look, email them startupcpg at daybreak.agency and they'll do a free audit for you. Good luck, everyone.

36:52so obviously car tech has been able to take advantage a lot of stuff that you guys have for you know a commodity board like you guys is there other stuff that you feel like people don't take as much advantage of that you have that you wish they would that you you're like really eager to offer to them that you know if anybody out there is listening you should know that this is a service they can ask you guys for i say uh listen to car tech just learn that's the big thing. You know, we offer to any food brand, you know, the webinar we did, you know, with you, Daniel, earlier this week, we offer that to any food brand where we will, you know, sit down with them and give them a hour-long 101 education on walnuts.

37:35And I think that's the biggest thing that most people miss is they think they know walnuts, or even if they are very familiar with walnuts, they don't look at that as an opportunity where, well, maybe this will give me an idea that may not work now, but maybe two years down the road, three years down the road. It's a free service that we offer. And, you know, we always come whenever we work specifically with food brands is we do the walnuts 101. Yes, but then we always pitch five ideas. So we look at their product line and we go, here are five ideas for new products. Here's exactly how we would do it.

38:13Here's why I would work from a marketing standpoint. And sometimes it does surprise me that people won't take advantage of that kind of free education and really just, okay, let me learn about something that I may not think I need, but who knows, maybe I do need. I feel like we're about to launch a TV show that's called So You Think You Know Walnuts. And it's a quiz show, and you're the host, and Kartik will be the plant. and he'll be on there and just, I don't know, dropping all sorts of walnut knowledge. Cardick, when you were at Fancy Foods and when you're like starting to talk to more and more buyers, do they ask you questions about the specific ingredients that way?

38:53Like, are they just really focused on the overall product and composition? Or are they like, hmm, you used walnuts here. Like, yeah, that's like makes sense because our consumers are looking for more stuff that has walnuts. Or does it come down to that ingredient level? Or is it mainly just they're interested in the overall product concept, the Indian snack mix, all the properties and flavors? I think it's varied. I think you've got folks who are, you know, first looking at, okay, what is the category, right? And so in this case, it's salty snack, it's got Indian flavors. But then when they look a level down, you know, the same way folks are looking for a gluten-free product, right, which ours happens to be, they're looking for, okay, we've got a lot of snack mixes in our set, but they're all peanut-based, right?

39:32And so we've got nothing for folks who have a peanut allergy, right? So, okay, it looks like you're using something that's a little more allergen-friendly in that space, and then there's the question. Where the flip side is, folks are asking, okay, are you using local ingredients? And now we get to say, yeah, our walnuts are right here from California. And so that also adds value for someone saying, okay, this is a locally made product, right? And so there are different angles in which different consumers or different buyers are looking at the product. And then from a media perspective, we want to support a lot of homegrown businesses.

40:04And so now by working with the California your board while on board you're like okay there's a decent chunk of my product now that's locally made and locally sourced as we know it for most more and more folks are looking to support the source from local farms to source from local growers and this is a great way for for you to align with that i mean i'll be completely honest that wasn't the intention but when you find a great product and you didn't get the additional benefits of that it's quite serendipitous for someone who's trying to formulate something yeah it's so interesting to think about and i guess I mean, anytime I talk to one of our ingredient providers, they would tell me so much about the ingredient that actually really helped me talk to buyers specifically.

40:44And even thinking about product messaging, but just to really know the benefits and like sustainability stuff, like all about the ingredient, then it gave me so much confidence and education, information to talk to buyers in a very elevated way, I would say. Did you find that also? though? Yeah, it's helpful, right? Because then if folks are asking, because we always launch the flavor first, right? And after the flavor, they're like, okay, what else separates you? Okay, so the product, not only is it allergen friendly, walnuts have so many health benefits, right? I'll be the first to say we're not a health forward snack.

41:16I mean, we're better for you. But the idea is that now we have different ways to talk to different folks about how this fits into their lives, right? Even hearing you and Keith go back, I was like, why is no one grinding walnuts and using that in a vodka sauce instead of berry, right? Because that could be a way for you to create that creamy nature in a pasta sauce. But as far as I know, I don't know anyone doing that, right? But that seems like a pretty simple application for something that's grown right here. Keith, you got to hire Cardick for the walnut board. Oh, yeah. I mean, the envelopes are coming his way, you know.

41:50Let's go. We need five ideas, Cardick, for every single brand. Let's go. Well, I just think that's so interesting and I love the partnership here and just Cardi, it seems like you have a really great approach to being open to grow this brand, which, you know, like Indian snack mix, you might expect like, oh, it's just going to be, you know, a very specific kind of mix that is very traditional. but it seems like you're open to evolving this and you considering different kinds of things to really deliver the consumer experience. And it like it feels very true to, you know, how it's marketed and the branding is fun.

42:26And just the experience is really awesome. And I feel like reflects your approach to entrepreneurship, like the actual taste reflects all of that. Yeah. I mean, Daniel, I mean, I'm like you, right? At the start, I was fishing after chocolate, right? I'm a sweet tooth at heart, but you want to take people on, you want to give people something they've not had before. And at the end of the day, no matter how better for you the product is, what the macros are, if it doesn't taste good, it doesn't really matter, right? And so the lane that we're going is, we just want to make you smile. And if that works, great.

42:55And if not, thank you for giving us a try. What do you think the plan is going to be to get a lot of people to try this? Because I'm pretty sure when they try it, they will love it. But yeah, who's that target consumer do you think to start? And yeah, how are you going to really spread word about this product to everybody. Yeah, I think the methodology we're taking is very much slow, steady. We're here for a while. So we know that introducing a product, the differentiated flavor, and then with biscuit, combining things that even in Indian cuisine, you wouldn't see together, right? So boondi and peanuts, you can see that elsewhere, but you'll almost never see a walnut with these chickpea puffs.

43:36So what we do is we do plenty of events where we are sampling. I almost have a policy when we sell in person, I refuse to let someone buy the product until they try it. Because I would much rather you have an understanding of what this product is here and not spend your money if you don't like it. But then if you do, great. I know I never have to talk to you again. You will be talking about this to everybody else, right? So we do a lot of events. We do a lot of conventions. You know, things like Wine and Whiskey Festival, where you don't expect to see any of the snack mix. but where they're talking about how walnuts and this vegan dark chocolate, which you would normally see in a brownie, come together when you're pouring a glass of wine or hosting with a beer.

44:17You don't think of walnut as a beer snack as much. But now here we have an opportunity to do that. And so that's what we're doing. We're just sampling it at every single point we can. And so we're not in a lot of large retail. We're doing a lot of independent stuff. But we will send single shot samples to stores so they can just put it out and people can have that experience. That's what we do. That's because you know if you do that, they're going to want it. I would. I was just sitting here eating it thinking like, man, this would go great at a total wine and more. Have this with beer. This is a much better experience than what they're usually going to put in front of you at the bar.

44:53Right? And it's nice and salty. And I might have to arrange for that after this podcast. We can make it happen. All right. So as we start wrapping up here. Yeah, Cardick, I actually am curious, though, just on that retail front. Basically, it seems like you guys are slow and steady, like you're going to start evaluating these opportunities as they come and make the right decisions for your brand, not too over eager or anything to immediately land like, you know, national accounts or anything. Or what do you how are you thinking about it? Yeah, we've had interest from a range of regional and national retailers, but we've said no because we know we're not going to be able to support them in the way they need to.

45:29So we're trying to build a business where we are building a little food service business. Right. We're working with a few bars that have this on their bar menu as a bar snack. We're working with some corporate offices to have us in their snack dispensers, right? If you walk in next to the granola, if you have this, right, you can have as much as you like. Trying to reduce the friction to that initial trial and then finding different ways for us to be able to, you know, maybe in 2026, the second half of that, to support a regional launch because now people know what it is. You have cash in hand and we're confident enough that the flavor is bringing people back.

46:05And then we'll, and we're focusing on the Northeast. We're based here out in New York. And so I, well, I'd love Keith, you know, drop a whole bunch in wineries all over Napa. I think we'll get out there at some point, but for now we're staying in the Northeast. Sounds like a great idea to me as well. That sounds like a service that I'm sure Keith would love. The day we'll make join us on that trip. Yes. If we have to go to every winery, then we'll do it. All right. Boys trip. Let's go. So I love that approach, Kartik. It almost sounds too reasonable. Like, yes, isn't that what everyone should do?

46:35Like grow the business responsibly based off creating awareness and demand in a nice, you know, thoughtful way before just going and blowing all your cash on big national launches before anyone knows about it. So it sounds like you're being quite, yeah, thoughtful about your approach. Keith, just as we're finishing up here, what else do you think people should know about, you know, commodity boards in general? And like, you know, maybe how you guys compare with other commodity boards out there or just people should really know about all of them in general? Anything to kind of leave us with? Yeah, I think the big thing is just take advantage of the resources they all offer.

47:11I think we push things way more on the food innovation side just because I feel we're in a unique position with Walnuts to where there's not this massive backlog of knowledge of how to incorporate it into a packaged food and some ideas and things like that. So I think we're kind of in an advantageous position. And one of the reasons why we love working with startups and founders is that we're in a position to really position it as something unique and innovative. So I would say the big takeaway is to use the resources and then, you know, in our instance, really capitalize on the educational component because, you know, it's something that who doesn't want to know more about, you know, something going on in the food industry with an ingredient.

48:00And it's a free resource, so it may lead to your next skew. So take advantage of it. Daniel, can I say one thing there? I think a lot of times in this industry, you're working with so many different folks who are trying to protect their, who have a vested interest in protecting their bottom line. They're selling a service. They're selling something where they, at the end of the day, are making money from it. It's hard because there's often tension as to who is benefiting and who's got your best interest at heart. And I think at the end of the day, you want to work with people you enjoy working with.

48:29And I've been very fortunate to work with the team over there. And not only are they just nice people, but there's no vested interest on that side. And I think just going into that conversation with that very clear mindset on both sides just makes that conversation a lot easier to happen. I know Keith won't give himself credit for that, but his team has been fantastic in making me feel at ease that they're not going to sell me something. That's the best part of the job. That's why I love it. That's amazing. Well, Kartik, really big congrats on all the early success. So yeah, I was really, I just kept hearing about you guys at Fancy Food.

49:03So I hope that was a great show for you all. And Keith, thank you so much for just sharing all this info. I really like for everyone to kind of live through this example, just to understand some of the resources that are out there, because this is a very hard industry to be successful in. But, you know, when you look at the different pockets, you find a lot of people out there who are, you know, willing to help. And obviously, Keith, you guys have a mission, which is to support the California walnut growers out there and this is how you do it but i think you know your model is a lot like ours which is you're just you're trying to provide a lot of value and that's the way to help a lot of people as well through education you know through opportunities so i love to see it and i love to see this beautiful partnership as well and everybody if you haven't had dusra that i'm not messing around here you gotta try it go to the website buy it maybe rate it on amazon also for bonus points.

49:57That's how we do it. So great. Thank you both so much for joining us here today. And I hope everybody enjoyed this as much as I did. Thank you, Keith. Thank you, Daniel. Appreciate it. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. If you loved it, I would so appreciate it if you could leave us a review. You could do it right now. If you're an Apple podcast, you can scroll to the bottom of our Startup CPG podcast page and click on write a review. Leave your company name in there. I will try to read it out. If you're in Spotify, You can click on about and then the star rating icon.

50:29If you are a service provider that would like to appear on the Startup CPG podcast, you can email us at partnerships at startupcpg.com. Lastly, if you found yourself grooving along to the music, it is my band. You can visit our website and listen to more. It is superfantastics.com. Thank you, everybody. See you next time.

50:57You