#254 - Buyer Spotlight: Hannah Koch, Supplements Buyer, Kimberton Whole Foods

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1:16Kimberton is a mission-based company. We started on a farm. Our founder was the person who first started making Seven Stars yogurt on the Seven Stars biodynamic dairy. So we come out of what now is called regenerative, but, you know, in the past would have been called biodynamic. We come out of that world literally directly off the farm. So there's a deep rooted investment in sustainable agriculture and in a commitment to the earth and also like what's best for people's health. That's not just like a tagline or something that we're saying because it's popular. It's deeply felt and meant and invested in.

1:52And so sometimes people can assume that you're only in it for the money. And that would be a big mistake with Kimberton Whole Foods. It can't just be like, oh, this is trending. We created this product. There has to be like, I want to feel good about that. And this is a company that I feel really good about. Kimberton Whole Foods has so much heart and integrity to it that I want to be met by that with at least a good percentage of the products that are on the shelf. Welcome to the Startup CPG podcast. I am so excited that today we get to learn together all about Kimberton Whole Foods. It is an absolute darling retailer based in Pennsylvania.

2:28And I'm even more excited that we're going to learn about it through the lens of Hannah, who is the category manager for supplements. I think she might have been the most popular person at our recent founder dinner at Expo West. Brands were over the moon to get time with her, and even some of them got on shelf because of it. You are going to love hearing about how consumers are driving what's on her shelf, how she makes assortment decisions, and even some hot takes on what's driving innovation these days. And if this podcast doesn't make you want to move to Pennsylvania to become a Kimberton Whole Foods shopper, then I don't know what will.

3:00All right, let's get into it. Here we go.

3:07Welcome, everyone, to another episode of the Startup CBG Podcast. I am so excited today because we have a guest we've been trying to get for so long. We've got Hannah. She's from Kimberton Whole Foods. Hannah, welcome. It's so nice to have you here today. Thank you, Daniel. It's nice to be here. All right. So Kimberton Whole Foods is just one of those retailers that the people who know it love it so much. And I just have heard from so many people how there's it's just like a really a store with so many passionate shoppers and the velocity is really good for brands that get in there. But can you just give us the 101 on Kimberton Whole Foods?

3:43What is it? Where is it? Why do people love it so much? Sure. I mean, I think Kimberton is actually a very special place. I think one of the most important things is that we're family owned and operated to this day. It's been over 35 years and that four of the five children of our founders actually do like work in our stores. One of them is my supervisor. So very integrated that way as far as the family business is concerned. And we're a mission driven company. And I think there's something about our mission we could always talk more about, but it's a little bit infectious. And I think that you come into the store and you can feel that energy.

4:13And especially at our first store, you know, people come in and it's like the quintessential old school health food store and then some. So people get that vibe and they love it. And all health food stores kind of have that smell and we do, too. So it's just a great place to be. And who is Hannah and how does Hannah fit into the Kimberton Whole Foods picture? Sure. So I've been at Kimberton Whole Foods since 2008. I came there on a part-time job while I was an art teacher at a middle school. And I'm a person with natural foods passion, but also studied herbalism pretty in-depth for the past 15 years or so.

4:50And so I bring that to it. And I started purchasing in 2019. I've done, this is my fifth position at Kimberton Whole Foods, So I've done almost everything there. But I do love the purchasing the most because it allows me to bring my herbalism passion and combine it with just the retail knowledge I've gained over the years and put those two together. And it's a great combination for me. It's a great job. That's so interesting to go from being an art teacher, obviously much more creative and managing kids. That's a tough task as well. Yeah. Do you feel like it's a big difference in skill set or is managing all the brands a lot like managing kids in an art class?

5:24You know, I think it does. I think the part of retail that I embrace is the people and the creativity. So those two things are in common with teaching. The brands that I work the best with are the ones that allow me to be creative with them. And we have like a nice flow between us. So that's definitely part of it. And I just love the people in our industry in general, both customers and on the vendor side. Every time I go to Expo, I feel like it's like a reunion of people that I love. I feel that we actually genuinely connect over more than just business. So I think there's all of those things in common.

5:55That's amazing. And can you just go into a little bit more detail about like, where are the Kimberton stores? How many are there? How do the brands that are lucky enough to work with you actually get the product there? All of the basics? Sure. We just opened our eighth store two weeks ago. We have stores in southeastern Pennsylvania. We're in three different counties right now. We're always looking to grow. Most of our business is fresh and grocery. And the supplement game is part of the business, of course. But we really draw customers in for food. That's a big pull. So a lot of our business is done with Kehi and Unify and big distributors like that.

6:34For supplements, I do a ton of direct ordering. And then I've had to work more and more with different platforms like Fair is a really growing platform for me. But then there's, you know, a lot of the emerging brands that are coming out right now. I'm just trying to get them while they're available. And a lot of times that's through their own platforms online. So it really just depends on who the brand is, what the product is and how much we need it. I've heard a couple different retailers talk about using FAIR, which was interesting to hear. And when I've heard it before, they're like, yeah, I mean, especially if it's a product that's going to be maybe a little slower at the start, or maybe it's just easier than me trying to get them set up in our system.

7:08I can just order a couple off FAIR. How do you think about using that channel FAIR specifically versus going direct or using one of the distributors? Yeah, I was actually very averse to it at first. I was like, oh, not one more ordering platform. But, you know, there's some freedom that it allows, which is what you just discussed. So I do find that there's some interesting things that I can almost shop on there as a customer and see like, oh, what happens? I type this ingredient in. So I've actually found brands on FAIR just from perusing, and I do enjoy that aspect of it. And then it does make it easier for brands aren't quite ready to go into KHE, but I need the products quickly and they're really not set up very well for direct distribution.

7:47It does bridge that gap pretty well. It's a bit more work on the retailer side just for the things I have to do on my end as far as putting a PO in that never corresponds to fare. So there's more work in the ordering and receiving. But in the end, it allows me to get product that I really need in store. That's cool. That's really cool to hear about. And can you also just clarify exactly what so you buy for supplements? What exactly is in there? What's the range of products that you're looking to source and have on shelves? In the supplement category, we do everything from A through K vitamins to protein is huge, of course.

8:25I don't know. It could be very specific ingredients. I'm trying to think of something that would be like a niche. Like we sell real raw B propolis from a local honey supplier, things like that. We have almost everything, I would say. Of course, there are quality standards, but I'm trying to fill the niche if I can. As long as there's enough customer draw for that product, I try to have it on the shelf. I'm probably over skewed. Yeah. That's the danger. I mean, too many things to fit on the shelf. Honestly, I don't know a lot about supplements in general. So this is actually all very good learning for me.

8:58How do you interact with the other buyers who have more of the center store categories, more of the grocery or beverage, all that stuff? Do you feel like your job is pretty similar to theirs or do you feel like you look at it differently and make decisions differently? Yeah, it's a great question, actually. It's very much the same in that the goal is to always have what the customers want at the right price, at the right time, the best product at the right price. So we all have that in common. We're all working in the same office. We work in like a group atmosphere. So and we've all worked together for a really long time.

9:29I am the most recent of all the category managers and I've been there 18 years. So the rest of them have been there over 20 and one of them has been there for 30. So we know each other really well. Quite honestly, we're like family and then we work with a family. So I don't know, there's a lot of like banter here and there, but then there's also a lot of seriousness when it comes to getting the job done. So there's that part of the commonality. But then really, I think the categories demand their own differences. You know, like fresh is completely different than my category. The timeline alone is intimidating to me that you have to roll through products so quickly.

10:03And so that just creates a whole other set of demands. Whereas the supplements, I've got years to sell it based on the expiration date, but it's really about like having the thing that the customer wants. Sometimes it's about making sure, I think across all categories, it's making sure you have enough products that signal like we are an unusual store or we care about high quality items. There's certain things you have to have on shelf, even if they're not in high demand that just show more of your identity as a retailer. That's so interesting. Thank you. And so I got to see you at Expo this year.

10:35So when you're looking for supplements and making sure you have everything that your shoppers are looking for. When you're at a show like Expo, what is some of the kind of innovation that you're seeing or just broadly these days, what are you paying attention to? But yeah, what are you looking at when you're there? What are you looking for? What's new? What's cool? What sets people apart for innovation and supplements these days? Yeah, right now with supplements, I think format is a huge part of it. I think I saw very, very few exciting pills. and I know pills are kind of boring like on this podcast it's silly to talk about pills but you know traditionally supplements are pills but this year I saw almost exclusively new products that were powders or liquids so many supplements are turning into like our TD bevs actually so they're like exiting my category and entering my co-workers grocery category I'm seeing that happen over and over again which like really it's tough for me because it's like that's my ingredient you know There's certain things like magnesium L3 and 8 that it's like to me that belongs in my category, but it's going to end up in a beverage because that's how consumers are consuming it right now.

11:41So I saw a lot of format differences. And basically at Expo, I'm looking for things that like really pique my interest or that I know customers are looking for. A lot of times exciting packaging is going to pull me in, but it has to fill a void for me in some way. And right now, Trend is just driving so much of supplements that I have to pay attention to what the customers are the most excited about. That's really what I'm looking for. So just a full shelf of protein and maybe some fiber. Maybe some creatine squeezes. Things in a gel format seem to be coming up. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's anything that you can like eat.

12:17I think customers are really tired of taking a pill. But I also think I think that customers are looking for ways to integrate supplements into their daily life without having to commit. That's something I see over and over again. And I think that that like drink phenomenon speaks to that. It's like, I do think there's a bit of a customer that's saying like, I want to feel really good about my choice right now in this moment. I'm going to have this beverage and it's going to give me this thing and I'm going to get a temporary focus or a temporary stress relief. But I don't have to commit to 30 days of a routine or an ongoing thing.

12:47Or maybe they're not even trying to fix like a long term health issue. They're really just looking for like an added benefit. And that category has grown a lot. And I think it's a more casual consumer. And respectfully, I think it's a less educated consumer than we would traditionally see in a health food store over the years. But it's also bringing in a lot of new consumers, which that's great. That's so interesting to think about. I wonder then, do you think a lot about what is going to stick around for the long run versus what is, let's say, a fad right now? I can say just from a personal standpoint, about a year ago, I started taking protein powder and I also started taking creatine.

13:24And I have kept that habit up every single day for the last year. I don't plan on going away from it. And I feel like, how would I ever know? But I feel like it's helping. It's so hard. Yeah, I was going to ask you, what's kept you taking it for the past year? What is it that keeps you repurchasing that? Is it because someone told you it's good for you or are you feeling a difference? I think I had seen creatine trending on data and I think just heard anecdotally from a few different people like, oh, no, it's like it's good now. Everyone says that you're supposed that creatine is really important.

13:57Not like when we were in high school and just some of the gym bros had it. You're like, oh, what's that? Like, I don't want to just gain a bunch of weight. Right. And yeah, I think the protein, I think just because I wasn't really getting a lot of great results out of even going to the gym a bunch. And so I guess I decided whether or not it's true. Maybe it's because I'm not getting, I don't have enough protein and the creatine and that'll help. And I will say whether it is legit or not, I'm not the scientist. I did it pretty immediately get better results in the gym. I felt like I could push myself a lot more.

14:28I just could lift a lot more and just like really start going up in the weights that I could lift. lift. And so, but I also just made a much bigger commitment to being healthier the last year, have done way more cardio and done cardio really almost every day and rarely missed a gym day. So it's hard for me to say like, oh, binary, I didn't do anything different except I started taking protein and creatine and now I'm better. It's not really true. It's part of an overall health thing. So who knows? Like if, you know, what's what. You're speaking to your own investment, right? It's like, you're not just investing financially, you're investing like energetically with what you're willing to do, how you're willing to spend your time.

15:02I think to answer your question, so I loved hearing your response, first of all, because, you know, you're a customer too. I think that I am interested in what's going to stick around. And I'm also, I think, you know, you just spoke to it, like something that you might see a difference from. I don't want to say that the creatine and protein is like changing your life, but you're changing your life and you're adding them as part of that regimen. So I think if it becomes integrated into a customer's behavior that will stick around, but they have to see a benefit, just like what you're talking about.

15:31You're talking about like lifting heavier weights. You're meeting some of those goals that you wanted to meet. So you're seeing a benefit. Therefore, you're probably more likely to consume and keep doing that. I think that there's always going to be a place for basic nutrition, protein being part of that. I will admit I worry not just about the industry because it makes it a lot. The way trend is moving so quickly right now makes it very difficult to purchase. I do feel that I could be wrong about this, but I think that this might be one of the first times that customers are driving innovation more than brands driving innovation.

16:02That's something that I felt like I saw more at Expo. It's like these larger brands that I'm used to working with over the years that are so established and they have a great reputation. I think they're actually scurrying to keep up with these very nimble online startup brands that can very quickly create a viral product. And then they don't have to have sales reps or people out in the field or they don't have to have an educator, things like that. So I think that the industry is shifting very quickly. And I think that I don't know if anyone knows like how much traditional supplements like taking your vitamins is gonna stick around.

16:38I wonder about that personally. And I also worry about it because it's just, I think customer behavior is just changing so quickly. I think COVID was really like the start of that. Let me ask about something that you just said that was very interesting. You said customers driving innovation instead of brands driving innovation. Does that mean people who are getting advertised something on TikTok or maybe seeing something from an influencer like this is the new key ingredient and then they're like, I need it. So then some nimble brand has to be the first one to launch it. And then the big brands have to respond to that.

17:07Yeah, 100 percent. That's what I'm saying. I think it's like they've been influenced, right, as we all have been influenced in some way if we've been on social media. And then some brand is very quick. Someone's agile. Someone's skilled and intuitive and knows how to do the thing. you know, package it right, promote it correctly, drive it to the right customer, and be like skilled enough in an online platform to drive it to the right customer base. Those are all skills that I think are growing and emerging right now. And not every brand is going to have someone in place that is going to be able to do those things.

17:42So I see our like legacy brands chasing that and honestly struggling to get that product out fast enough, because there is this like time is kind of moving more rapidly. And if you don't have certain products out fast enough, you're going to miss that window. And the other thing is, there are certain products that it's like a customer just wants that name. That's the other thing that influencer culture has totally changed. It used to be that maybe customers wanted creatine and you could have a creatine or you could have the creatine that we like to sell because we have a great partnership with X brand.

18:17But now I think it's like, yep, you can bring in other creatines and some customers are going to be price driven, But there's going to be more and more customers that are brand identity driven like that. It's like they only want this creatine or they only want this electrolyte. That's the one that's influenced them to come into the store and look for that thing. And that's the thing they want. And if they resisted the click of the button on their phone the first time, chances are they're going to go back to their phone and buy it the second time if you don't have it. So I'm working very quickly to try to, like, get that stuff in right away.

18:47OK, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, they could miss the buyer window where the buyers are like responding to that trend. And then all of a sudden they have enough products. So the big brands are behind the eight ball. So let me ask you a follow up question on that, which has to do with how consumers are deciding what they need to buy. OK, so I started taking the creatine and protein. I buy it from one specific brand. I go on their website. Every time I order, they give me 60 other additional things that I could buy. I'm like, well, should I? Because I trust this brand a lot and I like these products that they sell.

19:15But like, what is all this stuff? Do I need it? I don't know. and I'm trying to stay focused and just do the stuff that I'm doing. But I just, I don't know that I have the education. These are a lot of ingredients that I haven't heard of. And probably there are a variety of people out there who all swear by one of them that I'm not taking. Am I missing out? I don't know. So what role does Kimberton Whole Foods and the people in the stores play in actually helping with consumer education, shopper education, when they're coming in and looking for stuff? first, it really is actually like that they're coming in knowing what they want to buy because they saw it on TikTok or heard about it from a friend or whatever.

19:51Yeah. Well, I think first is that I'm so fortunate that Kimbrickson Whole Foods cares enough to staff our stores for customer service. I don't think that happens very often anymore. That's something that's like a passion of the family that owns our business. And they really, we call our wellness department the apothecary. So we're supposed to always have somebody in the apothecary. There should be somebody there almost all the time. So just having a body that someone can ask a question is very helpful. And that's another behavior that I do think changed since COVID. It used to be that that staff was tapped a lot more for their knowledge than they are today.

20:26I do think that customers crave some feedback and that they really do value when a staff person says, like, that's my favorite or I take this one. They want to know why. I definitely still have customers ask me that. But I do think a lot more customers are coming in, just like I said before, knowing the thing that they want to buy because they've already been advertised to. But we do provide staff education. So that's something I'm super passionate about. That is where my teacher background meets this role. We organize a training once a month. We have two to three brands come in once a month. They meet with our entire team, except for the people that are watching the floor.

20:59And it's in one place. They're off the floor. They get some lunch. They get to learn about things in depth and that provides them with at least enough knowledge to be able to speak to a customer at least about maybe it's going to be the brand identity, but maybe it's also going to be like a specific product education piece that they have. So the goal is to have a well-trained staff at least that can answer a question or if they can't to point to where the answer could come from. And one of the things that I'm super adamant about and I know that we've talked to our team about is that they don't know the answer to just say they don't because we never want to be offering health advice that we don't know anything about.

21:35But I do think that an educated staff is part of how you build the relationship between customers. And Camberton is a place that really wants to be a community market. That's part of our mission statement. So having that one-on-one conversation is very much part of having a community market. You're really making me wish that I live closer to a Kimberton Whole Foods so I could shop there. I would love to shop in a community environment. This sounds fantastic. And that's what I've always heard from everybody. Now I understand why. So, okay, let's say that you do show up at Expo and there's a trending ingredient that you know people are asking for and you are hoping to find the right supplier.

22:11What is going to make them stand out? Let's say you're there and there are four different suppliers of that same new ingredient that's doing really well. What is going to make one of them stand out for you? What are the kind of things you're going to ask them or what are you looking for to figure out which is the right fit? Honestly, packaging is probably the first thing that draws me in. I think it says a lot about a brand, how they want to position themselves, who their core customer or their target customer is. It speaks so much. I think it's the first thing that a customer is going to see.