#268 The Rise of Gymkhana Fine Foods with Gulrez Arora

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1:15We have this hybrid model. also because you couldn't find anybody to make it to our spec. So when you're tasting Jim Khanna's famous butter masala sauce, that's actually made by our chefs. It's the same chef that was in the Jim Khanna kitchen for 10 years. And now obviously we have a production facility and we're doing millions of units out of that. So we've scaled that operation, but the obsession on product has been so high that we actually had to put up an entire infrastructure to make sure that we're cooking the sauce like a restaurant does. It's multi-layered. We cook the base, we cook the main, we cook the finisher.

1:50There's literally no shortcuts. When I say this is the restaurant level, this is actually the restaurant sauce. Welcome to the Startup CPG podcast. Today, we are diving into a brand that is making some serious waves. Gymkhana Fine Foods comes out of the famous two Michelin star Gymkhana restaurant in London, and they've now launched nationwide in Whole Foods and Sprouts here in the US. They've raised an$8.5 million Series A with Kavu, which is famous for the growth and sale of poppy. Today's guest is my friend, its founder, Golrez Arora, who's going to talk to us about building a global premium Indian food brand, also translating a Michelin-starred restaurant into retail, and what it's like to launch in the U.S.

2:32market, as well as comparing it to their growth in the U.K. versus American grocery channels. I especially love talking about Golrez's background and some of his formative experiences because when you see something like this that looks like such a rocket ship brand, it's so interesting to me to hear how it really came about, what it took to get it off the ground. All right, without further ado, here we go.

3:00Golrez, my friend, I'm very happy to have you here on the podcast. First of all, who would have thunk it that years ago when you and I met back in the Mars Chocolate office in Mount Olive, New Jersey, that must have been about 10 years ago to this day, who would have thought that we'd be sitting here on a podcast together? But actually, I guess I could see it. You always had such good taste. You had big dreams. So looking back, you feel like you're where you always hoped you might be. Did you have any idea? Likewise, man. We were both destined to do our own thing and that's what we're doing. So that's great, man.

3:33It's great to see that. We had an amazing foundational building years at Mars. I still look back at that as you learn the game. You see the opportunity. The white space has become very clear. And then when timing is right, I met my now business partners and we said, OK, let's go and build something really special. Something that is very special to me. It's close to my heart. It's close to my home and something that I think was much needed in the world. So, yeah, very excited. It's very exciting. Everybody is very excited to see you guys grow in the market. Can you just tell me a little bit more about the background?

4:04Because you and I knew each other back at Marsh Chocolate, and then I left, and you left at some point. But I am not totally caught up on what you were up to in those years in between that really prepared you to do this. So take me back. Tell everybody the whole Ghoul Rez story. Yeah, so I was at Mars for about a decade. We were doing strategy. Then after that, I moved to Asia. I was in Hong Kong, Singapore, working on Asia-Pacific chocolate strategy, which sounds like the coolest title, but I was really growing that chocolate market in that region, moved back to America. That's when I was back in New York and was leading a charter on innovation.

4:40So this was really around partnering with high growth startups. We started a venture studio model within Mars, which was building the future across pets, pet food, pet care, confectionery, and human food. We also built an accelerator program. So all these kind of like what you call in a corporate language, Horizon 2, Horizon 3, innovation-led ideas. And I think it was always very close to where I always saw myself and where I wanted to be. So it was a very natural thing that a program really I built within Mars and then I was running it. And through that journey, it became very clear that as amazing as these big corporates are and how much wealth of knowledge and information they have, building the net new within a large corporate is probably the hardest thing you can go and undertake.

5:27And you know, man, Mars is built to make big, bigger. They're not really built to make, to create the new, which is great because the startups do that. And then they hopefully exit. And that's how a lot of the growth happens in big CPGs. It became very obvious when I was there that this is who I was. I'm a builder, I'm a creator, but trying to do that within this massive kind of corporation was not where I was going to find my core colleague. And I was on paternity leave, moved to London with Mars, and I got introduced to my now business partners who run a restaurant group called JKS Restaurant Group.

6:03It's one of the most successful restaurant groups in the UK and now actually expanding globally. Jankana is a hero asset. It's an anchor brand. I'd say it's one of the crown jewel restaurants within the group. Honestly, met them as friends. So when I moved here, somebody was kind enough to offer me an intro to them. And I was like, yeah, I want to meet those guys because I could never get a reservation there. So I was like, hook me up. That's the greatest intro of all time. What a soft landing in London. Met those guys, Joe and I. Joe is the CEO of the restaurant group and I became very good friends and started just hanging out and just riffing on ideas.

6:40And listen, these guys are phenomenal restaurant operators, but they were always curious about the retail side. And I obviously don't know a lick about restaurants, but I knew Consumer Game. And I think it was in 2022, I'd actually seen Carbone launch. And there was something that was just always in the back of my mind around what does a true global modern Indian brand looks like that is premium, that is not diluted, that is not like compromised on any segment. And I saw the experience I would have when I was at Gymkhana in London. And I was like, man, these guys are doing Indian food at a level, not just from a culinary, it's the whole package was nothing like I'd ever been like felt as a consumer, even though I grew up in Delhi and there's some amazing food in Delhi, but the whole 360 degree, the way they used to execute it was phenomenal.

7:31And I was like, what if we took that magic and brought it into people's own? And it was a conversation we had in 22 and meeting of the minds and coming together behind this one central mission of like, how do you deliver the purest, the most elevated, the most premium version of this beautiful Kazeed. It's the fourth largest Kazeed in the world with no hero modern day premium brand. And through that conversation, we said, why don't we do that together? And what better brand than Gymkhana to be the flag bearer of that mission? So we got together, put the thesis together. So my time at Mars and everything I learned around category creation, around expanding the pie and evolving trends were all kind of in back of my mind.

8:13And combine that with the fact that I always wanted to build, combine that with the fact that this serendipitous connection happened, and it all just came together and unlocked that we got to go after this. Like, this is the time, this is the window. So, yeah. And it seems like you are well on your way to building that dream that you have. So congratulations on that, really. Thank you, buddy. Thank you. And I just have to ask, so you were running the accelerator program within Mars as a whole, which is a super cool thing. we see this thing with big cpgs though they like will get excited about innovation maybe build some kind of an accelerator and then a couple years later they might shut it down and they like want the innovation but it's hard for them to actually like invest in it especially when times get tough so you kind of have this accordion thing going on at a lot of big cpg companies around accelerators but my question is actually now that you are well on your way to building this thing and you have launched at whole foods and sprouts and done this on the inside not top-down running an accelerator looking at very cool companies but actually building it yourself what do you think you actually could have done different or better or like what could a corporate accelerator do better knowing what you know now about really what it's like to build such a hot brand i'd say firstly i'll say it's tough right trying to manufacture a founder mentality a founder's zeal and a founder's passion within a corporation is very tough right like Like, I think there are models where you could look at, and we started looking at that, but we didn't really land it, but was you take what a big CPG has, which is probably phenomenal IP, great procurement supply chain networks, and then maybe even some great ideas, but then let outside founders run that completely separate from the mothership.

10:02Because again, you think about Moz, the size of Moz or any of these big companies, even a$100 million business is a rounding error, right? So they're not going to put their sales team and their general managers and their presidents to be like, prioritize this net new. Because you know what, like when they launch a brownie M &M, that's worth$400 million, right? A variant could do. That's the innovation that could unlock a huge amount of wealth where a startup is generally not the biggest focus for that core market. So I think what I'd say what I do differently is it's very hard to manufacture what a founder goes through every day.

10:38And there's no amount of corporate salary that can make you think like that. And that is the truth. I mean, I look at how I operate now and just the way these problems are like so deeply personal to what I do. Like, it's just very different, right? So I'd say what I do different is I do think there is a model. I do think there is a model on bringing some phenomenal IP that a lot of big companies are sitting on that they just don't have the bandwidth to bring to market or don't have the capability set. But how do you combine the big with this founder's mentality and this founder passion that unlocks something that could be on meaningful scale?

11:15I wasn't able to do that. And which is why I was like, you know what? I think it is time for me to do something on my own. And listen, I had nothing but an unbelievable relationship with Mars still to this date. And everything I know to a lot of fundamentals, I owe it to that education for 10 years. But it was just the right time to move on. Yeah, I really appreciate that perspective, having been on the inside there and then seen it from the outside. You know. Yeah. But especially the rounding error thing is so true because I remember when I was there, I was in a revenue growth management role, which means looking at all of the promotions and pricing that the company does on a global level.

11:53And I remember doing the analytics at one huge account on promotions and finding this honestly kind of low hanging fruit of we shouldn't do these particular promotions. They're not working as well as these other ones. And it was very clear that it would save us making, I can't remember, but something like 20 million bucks with no impact on revenue. And I remember delivering that. I was very proud of myself, probably patted myself on the back. And they're probably like, great, thanks. Okay, see ya. And it's so much money, though. And if I now think about, OK, my next job when I was at Just Egg, I might have done some analysis like that and saved us$2 ,000 and everybody like throws their hands up and celebrates.

12:34You're the hero. Yeah, like really makes a huge difference at that point. And so, yeah, just the scale of the business is so hard to wrap your head around and like what is going to matter to people in the core business. So that's a really cool perspective. And by the way, I would love for people to get the treat of just getting to know you a little bit and how you got to this point. of being able to launch this brand, which I think everybody watching is like, wow, that just launched and became a massive success immediately. So one more background question on you. Sure, buddy. You and I also have something in common, which is I think why we became fast friends when we were at Mars, which is we both came from Deloitte before that.

13:10Yes, we did. And so we both had that consulting background, which the same way as you look at Mars and so do just gave me so many foundational skills that I use constantly. It was three years of my life, a very intense three years, but I use it every single day in every single meeting. I wonder for you, what do you look back on from those days that prepared you for your time at Mars and now for your time scaling Gymkhana? I think for me, the biggest thing I took from consulting, honestly, was two things, actually. I think work ethic, early days, it really teaches you what real grind is, right?

13:46It's probably what investment banking does to a certain degree as well. I think you get the grind game. You know what real grind is, so you're prepared. So then everything else is relative after that. And then I think the second is clarity of communication. And I think that is how you present when you're at buyer meetings and landing key messages, whatever, if you're presenting even a slide or just conversationally summarizing stuff, right? Is the clarity of communication relative to your audience group? And I think consulting gives you a masterclass on that when you're there. And I think those for me have been probably like you.

14:21That was my first job out of college undergrad in strategy consulting. And it gives you the ground game, building blocks. And then Mars was the layer of consumer knowledge. And then I feel like I'm a better founder in my late 30s than I would have been in my 20s. I would have been all over the shop. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Same for me. Yeah, definitely. I don't know if you feel the same. I just feel like I personally needed that basics to have the confidence to be like, I think I can take a shot at this now. You know what I mean? I love it. I really agree with everything you're saying. That resonates a ton with me, and that is a lot of what I got out of it, too.

14:55Okay, tell me a little bit more about Gymkhana. I have never had the privilege of getting to eat there, but I know it is a storied restaurant. Can you talk more about the history of the restaurant and what it means to bring that brand into retail? Yeah, for sure. So Gymkhana started in London in 2013, pretty much within nine months, got its first Michelin star, was like an instant hit in the London culinary scene. Was probably one of the first like wave of like these really premium Indian dining experiences. And then I think it's one of those iconic places that is both super culinary led, but also has an amazing cultural angle.

15:32So Taylor Swift was there last month and Selena Gomez is there. So the Beckhams are regulars, right? So this is a restaurant that obviously then went on to get its second star. It's a two mission star restaurant, but it's equally has a very strong handle on culture, but not manufactured, right? This is just pure love for that cuisine, pure love for the brand. And over time, it's kind of built this reputation as one of the most iconic Indian restaurants, right? And it's open now in Vegas at the Aria and other locations in America. So when I step back, I look at the brand. It is synonymous with what Nobu is to Japanese cuisine or potentially what Carbon is to Italian is Junkana to Indian.

16:17And obviously, to take that sort of an heritage brand into retail is not a job that on day one was like, oh, let me, it's going to be just easy. We'll just bottle up something. That's not the case. We have been very, very methodical, thoughtful in what the range is going to be, how long it took us to develop it. My partners and I had an agreement that we're never going to launch. We were not going to put this business into the market till we are very proud of what we put in the jar. And I think even though the idea and we really signed off things in 22 to come and do this partnership together, we didn't launch anything for about a year because it took us that much longer to be like what we have now.

17:01It's liquid gold in a jar and we're ready. It's go time. So that finesse, that ethos, that insane obsession that I see my partners have on the restaurant side. By the way, Dan, the restaurant group is just not Indian, right? They have different verticals. So if you go to London now, the best Middle Eastern or Persian restaurant is Berenjak, which is part of the group. If you want to have the best Thai food, it's part of the group. If you want to have the best Spanish food, Sabor, Legado, they're both Michelin-starred restaurants. They have a 18-seater modern European two-mission star restaurant called Kitchen Table, right?

17:37So what my partners have done is an unbelievable job on creating this powerhouse restaurant group that really obsesses over the details, obsesses over the culinary heritage. And obviously, when we came into this partnership, the onus was on me to make sure we don't put anything that compromises that mission. And that's the reason, honestly, why we have the momentum, why we have is because once the people try the product, we have some of the strongest repeat in the category wherever we launch. And you try it, this is now becoming part of your weekly meals. In the UK, Indian food is very much part of the diaspora and how people eat.

18:14The people are eating Indian once a week, either they're eating out, they're ordering takeaway, they're cooking. we have now become that weekly meal for them. Very synonymous with what, like a taco Tuesdays in America, you have the Friday curry night with the family in the UK. And a lot of that is now becoming a gym kind of night at home. So, and all of that is this extreme obsession on product and everything that we do. So in terms of even new products that we launch. So that's a bit of a history on a storied restaurant expanding globally, taking that mission into people's home and with being completely uncompromising on making sure the product delivers.

18:51Speaking of the product delivering, can you tell me a little bit about actually formulating it? I'm sure that was quite an involved process to get it to the quality that you are really proud of. What was it like? Where'd you go to do it? What was the tasting and feedback loop like? Give us the deets. I tell people that I probably have the greatest R &D team of all time of several chefs that have, in the Indian game, of chefs that are top of their craft, right? Like these are some of the best Indian chefs in the world. They really understand flavor. And taking that and then translating into a shelf-stable product is the journey that took us a while.

19:28We have launched the range that we kept the product and the recipes very pure to the restaurant experience. Now, obviously, you know, the restaurant is cooking there on site. It's garnishing and that stuff you do at home. but the core of the base sauce is exactly the same to the point where we still work with the same custom spice supplier that supplies the restaurant and now we have really scaled in into providing us the custom blends that we use we're using the same tomatoes that we use to make the base sauce that we use in the restaurant so the supply chain has been we went out we tried to do something that was more ready for like a normal making a sauce.

20:08And we soon realized it's not working. So we went back and just really went back to the basics and actually scaled what the current infrastructure is into a CPG ready infrastructure, not for everything, but for most of the ingredients. And that really was the journey that took us a while, that back and forth and saying, not good enough yet, not good enough yet. And then really kind of building that. And actually now, Now, Dan, about 40 to 50 % of products that we sell, we make it ourselves. The rest, 50 % are co-packed. So we have this hybrid model. Also because you couldn't find anybody to make it to our spec.

20:41So when you're tasting Gymkhana's famous butter masala sauce, that's actually made by our chefs. It's the same chef that was in the Gymkhana kitchen for 10 years. And now obviously we have a production facility and we're doing millions of units out of that. So we've scaled that operation. But the obsession on product has been so high that we actually had to put up an entire infrastructure to make sure that we're cooking the sauce like a restaurant does. It's multi-layered. We cook the base. We cook the main. We cook the finisher. There's literally no shortcuts. I mean, I know a lot of founders are proud about their product, which you have to be.

21:18When I say this is the restaurant level, this is actually the restaurant sauce. and probably my biggest hurdle or my biggest area where I need to really build is our supply network, especially as we're now in the U.S. And what does that mean as we launch it to U.S. retail? But yeah, so that kind of gives you a bit of what it takes to put what we put in the jar. And can you tell us just what is the product line? Can you tell us all the stuff that you guys have out there? Yeah, so we started with a range of cooking sauces, which in America you call simmer sauces, which is essentially you just add your protein to the sauce, you saute it, you let it simmer, it's ready, anywhere from, I'd say if you're using like a prawn in our goan curry, it'll take you 15 minutes to get that on a table, to a butter chicken might take 25 minutes or so.

22:06So whatever time it takes to cook the chicken essentially. So we started with simmer sauces, marinades, which is, if you go to Gymkhana today, a big part of the Gymkhana menu is kebabs and tikkas, which is all the meats and proteins and lamb chops and chicken tickers and salmon and shrimps. And it's probably one of the most loved parts of the Gymkhana experience. And we took like what makes the meats incredible is the marinades, which is, by the way, a complete new part of like the Indian set. So if you look at Whole Foods Indian set or Sprouse, there's never been an Indian marinade, or at least that I'm aware of.

22:43And this brings that extra level of depth into your barbecues, your grilling. And then we have chutneys. We don't have them in the US. We have them in the UK, which are essentially dips, dipping products. You can dip anything in or they are like an accompaniment to your main dish. And then most recently, actually in the UK, which we are very excited about, launched a range of ready-to-cook, which is pre-marinated proteins that are ready. They're pre-marinated, have a sachet of chutney. and it's like a centerpiece. It's like a spatchcock, like a whole bird barinated. You just come and put it in the oven and you get this insane dish that is full of flavor.

23:22We have chicken tikka thighs. We have salmon with our green marinade, herby fresh. And that's very exciting. So we have an ambient range. We have gotten into chilled, which is we sit in the meat section, which you can imagine is a whole different part of the store, different buyer, different supply chain network, and something that I think maybe at some point you bring to America. And in America, we've launched with our marinade and our simmer sauces for now. That sounds amazing. I love the sound of that pre-marinated meat dish. Like even I could make that. I was just imagining myself in one of those Mrs.

23:54Doubtfire, Robin Williams scenarios where he has to make a whole meal and he can't cook anything. So he orders in and pretends that he made it. I'm like, oh, I could get away with pretending like I could make this really beautiful Indian meal just with this pre-marinated huge meat dish. That's right. Let's go. Let's get it here. Let's get it. Let's get it. Yeah, it's that simple. Just to add, so the flavors we have chosen, or at least where we started were on the sauces, are inspired by what we have on the curry menu. So quintessential butter masala. We have agowan curry, which is a coconut milk-based simmer sauce.

24:28We have vindaloo, which is a bit more spice forward. We have tikka masala, which is the most well-known dish in the world, probably for Indian food. So we've kept things basic in the sense, A, this is what some of these dishes are on the restaurant menu, but also people buy or people know. We just do it 10 times better than anything else in the market. So for me, there's already a lot of education, like why Indian food? Why Gymkhana? If I start getting cute with my flavors and things that are very new for an average consumer, you've completely lost them. So you've got to hit him. Butter masala is like a marinara, right?

25:08Italian. So you got to go where the consumer is. I love it. It is complex business that you're growing here. You've got the UK, you've got the US, you've got multiple temperature classes, different categories of products, but it seems like you guys are managing it really well. One question that I have for you is about the source of volume. I wonder like, where are the consumers who are buying Gymkhana coming from in the store? I'm sure there is some percentage that will see you as a better version or maybe a more premium version of some of the legacy Indian sauce brands they were buying or other products that were already on the market.

25:45But I also have a suspicion that a lot of people will just learn about your brand and the quality of it. And it would be highly incremental. Like, yeah, actually, and just get them excited about cooking a meal that that would fit into where I don't even know what that would take the place of, but just almost be totally net new for the category. What are you seeing? Yeah, so let me answer it in two ways. So firstly, everywhere we have grown, we have completely, A, we have grown the category, and more than majority of that is incremental. So think of it in the UK, the brands that were before we arrived were more like Rao's or Carbone.