Founder + Funder: Anabel González, Founder of Good Bacteria and Hayden Williams, Partner of BrandProject

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21:45Hannah Dittman:Both of you, where do you see Good Bacteria going? Obviously, when you go into an investment, you kind of have an end goal in mind as an investor or where you think the company might go. So what's on the horizon for Good Bacteria and what's the big dream and goal with the brand?

22:03Anabel González:Yeah, so I think early days, we landed on the name Good Bacteria because we unlocked that you have more microbes in your body than human cells. And so Good Bacteria, bacteria is not a trend. Gut health is not a trend. It's not going anywhere. So we feel really lit up and excited to own the space of bacteria specifically across different formats. So a second product coming out in June, a third product coming out end of the year, and then a fourth product coming in the early spring. They're all in the biome space, but our fourth product actually extends into another part of, you may say, like the retail shelf.

22:41Anabel González:So we feel really excited to continue to innovate in this space, to continue to create modular approaches to the gut microbiome. So finding the middle ground between this one-stop shop, one-size-fits-all supplement, but also the more customized approach to testing your gut microbiome and coming up with really custom solutions. The science is not quite there yet. So we feel really excited to build in the in-between of that space for now and also stay close to the science as it continues to develop. And I think that from a brand universe perspective, we feel really excited to continue to build a brand that is vibrant and curious.

23:18Anabel González:There's a landscape of like needing to fix your body or clean up your gut. And we feel really excited about reconnecting to your body, to nature, to its natural rhythms. So excited to keep building in that space. Hayden, what about you? Yeah, it's Annabelle's building a master brand. And that's the stuff that we spend most of our time in health and wellness. whether it's products or service or technology. And what Annabelle's building is a master brand. Annabelle said she follows the science. And because of the community that she's building and everything is so consistent, the brand voice, how they talk to consumers is all about solving problems, not making them feel ashamed of anything, but leading with education and compassion and just helping people be healthier, both through very accessible means.

24:05And so I think there's so many places is where Annabelle and the team will take that. And it really is just building this master brand and good bacteria. I think I mentioned this, but it's just such an incredible name for what they're building and allows them to go in different directions, but all very focused. So we love when brands are building things where there's all these synergistic extensions, where it's not like the next thing will be on the other side of the aisle and retail or something like that. It's a very coherent, linear story, but that allows them to meet people in so many different parts of their lives.

24:37Hannah Dittman:Yeah, well, we're all rooting for you to be queen of the gut bacteria health space. You've got all the startup CBG community and friends, and we love to see one of our own winning. I'd love to pivot and get into a little bit of thought leadership and lessons learned, as I'm sure there were many for both of you along this journey. Annabelle, what have you learned throughout the kind of investment fundraising experience that you think others could learn from?

25:08Anabel González:I would say circling back to that relentless approach. I think it's really easy when you're getting constant doors slammed in your face to get discouraged because it's going to happen. That's just the name of the game. And I really challenge myself on a day-to-day basis to use that as fuel. And sometimes there's a really like aspirational spiritual element to that. And sometimes it's a little bit of like, I have a list of people that I'm sending a postcard to one day. I'm half kidding. Continuing to just like relentlessly show up for yourself and for what you believe in, as cliche as it sounds, even on the days that you're not all there, just doing it day after day after day.

25:46Anabel González:That's been my recipe, I suppose.

25:48Hannah Dittman:Hayden, if you could give founders a few pieces of advice around fundraising, what would they be? It's all about investor founder fit because there are great investors who are very hands-on and value-add. There are great investors who are very passive. And I think what you want to do as a founder is find the type of relationship that you're looking for and vet that. So talk to people they've invested in, because again, it's not that more active investors are better than passive. You just want to make sure that you know what you're getting yourself into. And so I think be very deliberate about who that you are going to work with.

26:27And I mean, Annabelle recently raised from a bunch of other incredible funds, and she did a lot of work to see who is going to be the right people to bring on the cap table and who will I work well with and not based just on what they're saying, but based on other people who maybe they've invested in vouching for that. And I say this from my time as a founder that at the early days, it's easy to be like, all I want to do is just find money because it's not easy, but take the extra time to find the right partners because it is critical. These are long-term relationships. And so I would find the right people for you and cast a wide net, but really try to do that upfront diligence to see who would be the right fit for what I'm building in my working style.

27:07Anabel González:I totally agree. And all of these funds have different working styles and plug in in a different way. And I think having a balance is also really essential. Like Hayden shared, some investors are passive, but they're incredible in other ways. Some are more hands-on. Personally, we wouldn't want like six funds that are super hands-on. I think it's great to have a healthy balance. Well said.

27:27Hannah Dittman:I think another question that founders ask often is trying to wrap their head around how to communicate the narrative of both the fundraising narrative, but also the narrative of their kind of brand story. Do you guys have any pieces of advice, obviously, given early stage? That's a critical component of what the investment process is like. Annabelle, when you were thinking through, how am I going to communicate this in a compelling way where they're going to, like Hayden is saying, get it instantly. It's going to be intuitive. All my thoughts are going to come together and it's going to be something they want to get on board with.

28:06Hannah Dittman:What are some of the kind of pillars or anchor points you think other founders might be able to adopt or frameworks as they try to think through how to structure the way that they're going to approach this for themselves?

28:18Anabel González:That's a great question. I think as far as the brand story and the mission and the purpose that has come very easily to me, as I'm sure you can imagine. I had to really exercise the muscle of fundraising and knowing my numbers and understanding my business model and knowing how to communicate that and knowing how to plan for the future. And what that vision is, not just for the product and brand, but what does it mean for our actual business? And so I would say for starters, I invested heavily in our brand universe and story. I knew that in order to get venture capital funds without having an actual product in my hands, I was going to need to illustrate that product and mission and vision really, really clearly.

29:01Anabel González:And so I did that in a deck and I invested some of my own capital into that specifically when I was some people said, hey, actually invest in the product, get a product first. But I decided to invest more in the brand and story first. I think also knowing my weaknesses, I was very intentional about seeking out consultants and fractional partners in areas. And I'm still that way. Like I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at. And I have really strong support. Like I have an incredible COO, Tori Kiss, and she is also a CFO. And we work really closely on a day-to-day basis on our goals for our business.

29:37Anabel González:And so I think it's important to know what you're good at, know what you're not good at, and know your numbers.

29:41Hannah Dittman:Hayden, what about for you? What lights you up when you hear a pitch or comparing and contrasting pitches that have been successful like Annabelle's or narratives that have been successful like Annabelle's or ones that you've maybe passed on or not leaned into during the deal process? What did they have in common or not that made you feel like one got you going and the other you just couldn't see? Definitely the founder story. And the best ones, the most memorable ones, like with Annabelle, Good Bacteria. It's a linear story, but that doesn't mean it's linear because Annabelle's been developing probiotics for 20 years.

30:20It's that this all started with a problem and she couldn't find a solution. And now she's hell bent to figure it out. So some people might have all this experience in the space. Some people might have none, but they're telling the story about why they felt so compelled to do this thing. And then they bring with that an innovative product solution. And you do hope that some things that get us less excited is if the entire story is about marketing and how they'll market this and nothing about the product. That's like an afterthought. It's just a pretty wrapper on a commoditized product, but we'll sell it like this.

30:51And so I love the fact that not only this really authentic organic founding story, but so much of it was about the product and why that was going to solve other people's problems, just as it solved Annabelle's problems when she was postpartum. And then it's also including the vision. And so I think that it's the entire thing of it's a story. And there is, again, it's not one size fits all. It's okay if you have tons of experience or less, but it's the ability to tell a story about how we got to where we are today. And even if today is a year before launch, and I think it was a great decision by Annabelle to put together this really beautiful deck because it made us think like, wow, the story that she tells this deck, I bet she'll bring that same thought and care to every single product and all the packaging and the roadmap and building this brand universe.

31:42So I was kind of tying that all together about why I had to start this, why there's something different about this product and where I'm taking it.

31:50Hannah Dittman:This may seem like an obvious question that doesn't need to be answered, but I'd love to double click on why is that founder story and personal connection to what they're doing so paramount and important to you? What's the kind of so what of why that matters? Especially having started a company myself, which by the way, spoiler alert, was not successful. But I know just from doing that, when I started the company, it was something that I felt passionately about. And if I didn't, if I just thought it'd be... a way to make a quick buck, I would have stopped after three months because it's so hard to start a company.

32:26It's impossible. Every day you get things thrown at you. No founder doesn't have all these difficult stories to tell. And I didn't come up with this, but there's missionaries and mercenaries. And if you're the mercenary, you're after a quick buck. The second you hit a roadblock, as you will, you're far more likely to just go the other direction or quit. Don't feel so passionately about this. But if you're the missionary and you are so passionate about this because you want to help other people solve their problems, then you're much more likely to run through all the barriers that will be put in front of you because it's hard for everyone, it's impossible.

33:03And it's only the people that have that personal desire and passion for what they're building who will actually run through those roadblocks that actually make the thing successful.

33:13Hannah Dittman:Thank you so much for shedding light on that. Very well said. And I think helpful context for other founders to think through that investors are really looking to make sure you're going to be resilient and tenacious, it sounds like, and being able to showcase that in your meetings with them and communicate that in every way, whether that be the brand story and your connection to what you're doing, but maybe also in your journey thus far, building your brand can really help out.

33:38Anabel González:I created a very clear vision and story and brand, but we also had a lot of partners secured. So in this formulation that we had established, we had secured our suppliers, which are nobonesis. They're some of the most clinically studied ingredients in the industry. So there was a lot of work done on the back end to make sure that we could specifically point to how we are going to execute this vision. And I think that's a really important part of the puzzle.

34:04Hannah Dittman:Yeah, I think that is a truly important part because it's not like you just came with an idea. You came with an idea and a plan. And being able to have confidence in that plan, I'm sure, Hayden, made a big difference in how you felt about the company. Yes. I think that if there's one thing at any stage that you as a founder want to convey is a sense of inevitability for what you're doing and that whether or not this investor who you're talking to, they can get on the train or not get on, but it's leaving the station. And so if you ever feel like as the investor, if I don't say yes, they're at a standstill.

34:40Things are not moving forward. As a founder, every interaction you have with an investor, hopefully things have been moved forward and you get the feeling that this is going. This train is leaving the station and whether I invest or not. So I better move quickly because those founders were able to raise when there's that sense of inevitability about what they're doing.

34:59Hannah Dittman:Great piece of advice. Obviously, you all have such a lovely rapport, a healthy relationship, and obviously a lot of respect for one another. But I'd love to dive in to your thoughts specifically on what the founder-investor relationship feels like to you. What is the dynamic in your mind? And what could you share to help explain it to other people who maybe have no idea what it's actually like? The thing I'll say is I think the best relationships are built on trust and honesty, and that goes both ways. And both people, the investor has to earn that through just showing up and being supportive in any way.

35:42And being supportive doesn't mean being a blind cheerleader, but just always acting in good faith and trying to be helpful. But knowing that at the end of the day, this is not our company, it's Annabelle's company, and we're here to support in any way that we can. But the decisions are hers to make, and hopefully we can just share what's working and what's not working in other companies in our portfolio and just from our experience. And so I think the most important thing is just to hopefully build that foundation of trust such that if things are not going according to plan, because it's every single time, it's just a bunch of back slapping and cheerleading and because no companies are like that.

36:16It's never up and to the right. And so hopefully in the best relationships, there's that open dialogue because things will go haywire sometimes. They do it every company. So having that communication channel, and especially for founders, it's a very lonely job. And even there's some things that can be, if you're going through challenging times with the company, you may not want to tell your team rightly or wrongly. You may not want to confide to them because you don't want them worrying, even if there's existential crisis that you're facing. And even your spouse, they hear all the time about your company.

36:45And for whatever reason, you may not want to confide in them. So it's very lonely. There's very few people that you can talk to. And in success, hopefully, with investor-founder relationships, there's that channel where both people can be honest with each other and just be in search of truth and trying to grapple with all the hairy issues that will come up when trying to build, launch, and scale a brand.

37:05Anabel González:I totally agree. I think trust is at the foundation. And I think part of that is constant and well, just very clear communication. I think Hayden is actually one of his superpowers. He's a super communicator. And so very early on being my first investor, having not built in this space before, it really set the standard for how I communicate with our investors. and I think I would say also celebrating the wins of course which is easy but also being able to sit in the fire because there are going to be days that are going to feel like you're sitting in the fire and being able to just be there and I think Brand Project and Hayden you especially have done just such a great job at that no fire these days but I will say that when we first launched the first two weeks we didn't have very many fails and I did not sleep very well and Brand Project was incredibly supportive.

37:56Anabel González:Obviously, our second month in business, things really took off and we're in a very different space now, but it was really telling that they were supportive throughout that period. And then also founders are perhaps wired in a bit of interesting way. So it's really easy to apply like one playbook to every founder should be this way. And I think at least founders like myself feel the most inspired and at freedom to create and build and propel forward. when like your essence is like supported and you're not expected to fit a particular mold, if that makes sense.

38:32Hannah Dittman:Very well said. And yeah, I can only imagine the harrowing times, especially when the zero to one day, a partner that really gets what that's like, I'm sure is so critical. You know, later stage, you've already got a lot of momentum going. You've got a lot of wind in your sails. You're already kind of feeling like, yeah, we're crushing it. I got this. That founder confidence is probably really built in a lot of ways, obviously still challenging times and things that you want a supportive partner for. But I can imagine in the infancy, how important being with the right person, cultivating that little baby and keeping the confidence that you had when you started building it would be so, so critical.

39:13Hannah Dittman:goal. I would love to take some time to pivot into a case study question. As you know, startup CPG has the largest Slack community in the industry with now over 35 ,000 members. I'd love to pull a question directly from our channel and have you both answer it as a case study for any founder with a similar question. Today's question was, how many people from the company should be involved in fundraising and who should they be? So I would say always the CEO. And as Annabelle can attest, fundraising is a full-time job for whoever's leading it. So the CEO needs to own the process and really trust whomever is on the team to keep the business forward.

39:53But that said, there is smart to loop in relevant members of your team as you progress with investors and build the relationship there. And so certainly, if you know that an investor is really digging in or has questions about digital marketing, loop that person in on your team and they should meet the person who's responsible for this and get to know them and ask them questions directly. So it's great to empower your team like that, but not to include them on every call just because if everyone on the team is fundraising, then no one's actually moving the business forward. And so I think it's great to introduce your team members, investors during the process, but ultimately it's a full-time job.

40:30And So definitely the CEO should be involved and then hopefully bring in other people as necessary.

40:35Anabel González:Yeah, I definitely echo that. I think the way that we structured it and I worked really closely with my team on the back end and I would take the first call. So I would spearhead all fundraising conversations. And if, you know, it was a fit, then we would set up another call. And typically I would bring in either my COO, CFO or my director of e-com to dig more into the meat of the marketing or financials.

40:59Hannah Dittman:That makes a ton of sense. You know, if there's specific follow up questions and you want to allow the people running those aspects of your business to chime in or to shine and showcase that you've got amazing members on your team, too. This has been such a fun chat, you both. I can see why you've gone on so well and how important each other have been for each other's success, especially, obviously, brand project support and Good Bacteria's awesome journey and where you've gone and where you're going in the future. it's such a symbiotic relationship it seems like and a really solid one so thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today for founders that might want to get in touch with either of you or follow along on your journeys what's the best way for them to do so or to get in contact and then a second question would be do you have any current advice or opportunities for those interested in joining either of your teams the best way to get in touch with me is

41:57Anabel González:Annabelle, A-N-A-B-E-L, at itsgoodbacteria.com. And you can find our product on itsgoodbacteria.com. We are looking for a summer intern. So I'm not sure if anyone that is in college is listening to this podcast, but feel free to reach out. So our website, it's brandproject.com. My email is on there, but it's also hayden.williams at brandproject.com. If you're a founder who's raising, please reach out if you have a deck, would love to see that. And yeah, piggybacking on what Anwell said, anyone who has a gut who's listening to this should buy good bacteria. So everyone should try it. It's incredible.

42:37I take it every day. And then as far as for our team, we're not currently hiring, but for anyone who's interested in venture capital, jobs are certainly few and far between, and it's a great job. And so I encourage anyone to do it, but also a great thing to do if you're applying for a venture job is also to get experience at a startup like Good Bacteria because there's no substitute for working in early stage, fast growth company. It's like, I wish I had that experience before I started my company. I think we would have been more successful if I did. I would encourage anyone to work. If you don't have an idea that you're super passionate about, and I think you should only start a company if you're super passionate about it, join a company like Good Bacteria and you'll do things above and below your pay grade and get such incredible experience that would ultimately make you a great fit, whether for starting your own company or doing venture one day.

43:24Hannah Dittman:Well, I am a new Good Bacteria adopter. I'm super excited to be your next customer. I hope that anyone who thinks they're the next Annabelle reaches out to Hayden and he gets another amazing founder in his portfolio. Thank you so much, both of you. Like I said, tons of respect for what you all are doing independently, but also your relationship together. And I think such a masterclass in what a healthy, exciting investor-founder dynamic can be like. So thank you for allowing us to witness that and sharing with us today. Thank you so much, Hannah. Thank you for having us. Yeah, thanks so much. Well, friends, we've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast, the top globally ranked podcast in CPG.

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44:45onderling