Understanding Advisors with Jamie Borteck

21:13Jamie Borteck:Yeah, I think for broad advisors in general, well, let's start with like me. I think I go into it and various people I work with that I was describing. Typically, it's at a point where maybe as that advisor, they haven't gone through a series A yet, but that is a prospect. And my hope and goal being someone who loves being part of teams is to grow and be that board member. And so this is a longer relationship. And it's actually happened multiple times in that piece. So, you know, that can be till the point of exit, you know, so you could be with somebody and you can be consistent for, I'll just make it up six years.

21:55Jamie Borteck:At the same time, this word advisor can have different derivatives. And so you might have someone who's, let's say, for example, an operations advisor, very specific and functional. And maybe you needed to, you were a solo founder and you hadn't hired an ops yet. And that person was good help to get you up to speed. But as things got more complex, you brought in the head of operations and now maybe didn't need that advisor. So that could be like a transition state. There's no set time. I think it's very situational. But, you know, my hope would be both groups like go into it with this could be a longer relationship and see them through the journey because then a richer support and you get to know their history.

22:41Jamie Borteck:You know so much about the business that you can contribute moving forward. But, you know, my hope would be when I have ever started with somebody and we didn't know where it would go, there's no handcuffs. Like I'm like, if I'm not doing my job, you ought to fire me. like 30 days. I'm not here to like lock anybody up, but I also go in knowing like, I think I'd like this and I think they're going to like me and this is going to be a relationship and I'm going to be an extension of their team.

23:06Hannah Dittman:Really, really helpful. We talked a little bit earlier about how founders can think about evaluating partners. I'd love to get your perspective on how you're thinking about evaluating the companies that you engage with. You know, what are you looking for? What gets you excited about a brand or a company? And diligence might be too strong of a word, but, you know, trying to understand your diligence process and what the core pillars of what you're looking for that make you want to get engaged.

23:34Jamie Borteck:Yeah. It's an interesting piece because I think there's like a lot in my head that I never write down, but it's all like coming into this like crazy chemistry of situations. But if I try to boil it down, first, I just, you see the product you see the brand it could be the brand name it could be the the delivery of what it is there's something that's like wow that's really interesting and immediately my mom could say i could already understand the competitive landscape and this could be a winner so that's like a step you know equally of that is now you start to meet founder founders ceo and have you who may be looking for your help you know you just spend some time really in some, they're like, do I enjoy spending time with this person?

24:21Jamie Borteck:Are they good people? And that's just broad of trust them, got a good back behind their, you know, those are the elements. And I would say there's like maybe a couple, for me, obviously I work with a lot of founders, both in like operating roles and now in lots of board roles, it's like 10 some, you know? And I believe that I've chosen to work with some of the best because they're great people and they care and they're good leaders in some way or form, but they're not all the same, right? You know, some you believe are just like, wow, amazing energy and proactive can do with some maybe proven background in it.

25:00Jamie Borteck:Like this person's a winner, right? And then there's some that's like, wow, not sure. Maybe they are, but like, at least like you could look at it. They are brilliant in some way of what they're doing in the business and their craft. Super EQ skills that like really have a touch on people. This person's going to be in front of a buyer or an investor and everybody's going to love this person. They're just great people. How could you not root for them and their story? And that person may not be the strongest in financials or the strongest in something, but at least like they have a little bit of self-awareness that like, yeah, I'm not this and I'm going to hire good people around us.

25:41Jamie Borteck:So as long as you have one of those systems, you're like, okay, I think this collective team will win. And that starts to be part of the, call it diligence of, you know, what I want to spend time with this group. And then other just like little scientific, I don't know, just stupid stuff in my head. Like, is there any performance data to understand like the velocity? Cause that really speaks to me, coming from a data background, you know, Kraft Foods, and how are the margins, how are the structure and the bones of the business to become that? Is it priced in a way that I believe it could scale into conventional and natural and omni-channel and e-commerce?

26:24Jamie Borteck:Like where could it sell? And maybe where along the lines is the goal for the founder and the need for me to help them to eventually be acquired, what does that look like? What are those options? And would this business fit really well there? I put all that like just in a little bit piece of my head and I say, yes, or I'm not really sure.

26:46Hannah Dittman:Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of tangential mental process as an investor would have or tangential thought processes around evaluating a company. I think everyone is obviously looking for similar things when they're getting involved as an external party in a business, which is, do I believe this can be a big success? Do I believe in the people running this? And do I want to be married and in bed with them? And then I think the additional layer you're really anchoring on to for yourself is, can I add value here in a meaningful way, which maybe is the bigger distinction between an investor whose biggest value and no hate to investors, but biggest value typically comes in the form of capital and your biggest value is coming in with your expertise and your thought partnership.

27:33Hannah Dittman:So that makes a lot of sense. If possible, I'd love to pull this into a case study or maybe a more tangible example with a company you've either worked with before or that you're currently working with of shining some light on some of the things you said in an example way of what really spoke to you about the brand and the company and what got you really excited within that specific example to get on board and work with them?

27:59Jamie Borteck:You know, I'll just try to think of a couple of examples. I mean, I think in board roles, for example, you know, I just remember back to meeting Matt Weiss for Rhinestacks and how he just had this just eloquent way of talking about his vision for snacking and it just, it rung and I could just tell he's a visionary. He's one of those guys that's going to be like, people are going to root for him. And I could just tell his vision for marketing and touch was, and I could see the packaging and I was like, all right, there's something here. Similarly, actual veggies. And I met Haley and eventually Jason.

28:35Jamie Borteck:And I was like, oh my God, I love this name. And I just was like, there is something so strong about this brand. This can be iconic. And wow, these co-founders are so driven and smart and want to be successful. Like there's something here. I can go on and on. There's, you know, we can continue in the conversation, but there's plenty of stories like that, that I can just, you see it. And again, like you said, Anna, like that you can add value and it's a two-way street. It's like, they want your help. You think you can help. And now you have a great prospect of a good growing relationship to be a, like a real part of their team.

29:15Hannah Dittman:When you say things like the name really stuck out to you or the packaging really sung to you, things like that. What are the specific things going through your mind that made that feel true to you? Is it the colorway, the simplicity that it would grab people's eyes on the shelf? What are kind of like the deeper layer thoughts going on that make you feel compelled towards certain products or branding?

29:37Jamie Borteck:Ooh, that's a hard one. I mean, I think hopefully like I gave specifics in the rind and actual veggies part. These are just from some of maybe more of my branding marketing background that I can think through a name, like even real stupid bit of like Grillo's Pickles and how that kind of rings off your tongue and how that feels or Stone and Skillet, a business I'm involved in now, and just the backstory and the name. I'm just like, there is potential here because that is, in many ways, does start with a name. And if the business is in the goals of being sold one day and someone's acquiring, the equity mark is pretty big, right?

30:19Jamie Borteck:They're buying a brand stage one. And you talked about the package design that there's no like science to it, but you see it. And, you know, I will just say like, it could be that it's so sharp and great from the get-go that you're joining on something that you're like, Oh my God, some of that work is so good. Now it's about putting on gas or wow, wow, there's all this other stuff, but it could probably with a package refresh, this could be something. And you see that. And I don't deter from one or the other, but at least I could see, wow, can you imagine what this would be and what it could do and how it could be an iconic brand in the industry in so many households?

31:04Jamie Borteck:You just have a feeling for it. It's hard to explain.

31:07Hannah Dittman:Yeah, there's definitely an art and science to branding in these things. It reminds me of like a music exec listening to something new and being like, yeah, that's the sound I want. And I'm sure you've had such a broad base of examples, both in competitive markets and brands you've worked on specifically that have given you so much pattern recognition and that secret sauce of they've got a little bit of that magic that's going to work. reflecting on your career and engagements I'd love to pivot into some lessons you learned or compelling anecdotes that you think others can learn from maybe like if you had to tell founders or operators a couple of big pieces of advice what would they be and why yeah that's a great

31:47Jamie Borteck:question one that comes to mind is the build the house the foundation and I think I've learned through various times that you know there's a lot of work let's call it between we just call it the spectrum of finance and ops. That's in the forecasting, that's in the secured manufacturing, and then that's in the financials and the cash flow planning tied to that forecast. And maybe more cases than not, I would say, let's just throw five out of 10 businesses or founders in the early days may have someone who's just like got a real excitement for sales or marketing. and maybe it's that's less of the passion point but it really is such an important foundation and some people get it and that's their background so it's not all one fits all but I really learned that that can really go awry if you don't carefully monitor that you really don't put the depth into it so you know in one business I think we really didn't have the right foundation in the forecasting work that hit challenges in operations and back and forth, or in one case, very tricky in co-packers and just how to manage some tricky waters.

33:06Jamie Borteck:Like that stuff is not easy. And if you got to make sure if that's not your full passion, you have the right people to kind of manage that. And I talked about the financial part of the house, like the cashflow planning, usually the case in point is that often the businesses that have gone under and didn't make it more likely is they ran out of cash or they really never had the right margin structure to support the business and hence ran out of cash. So putting enough rigor to that foundation early, I think, would be my advice. Because once you really establish that and then you've got something you feel like can be amazing to the world, you're off to the races.

33:47Jamie Borteck:If you don't, you can really get into tricky waters.

33:50Hannah Dittman:Yeah, great perspective. And it's like the margins and the cash management are definitely not going to be the deal maker for you, but they certainly will be the deal breaker. And all the hard work on all the deal makers that you've got right kind of are all for naught when you have like a binary outcome of survival on the table that you're talking about. I think great perspective. I'd also like to ask you, you know, obviously you've probably worked through many challenges with founders and many obstacles. When have you seen a founder handle something that went wrong in a really good way? And what did you like about how they handled it or advice you would have for founders handling tough obstacles?

34:30Jamie Borteck:Yeah, that's a great question. And it's cool to see when that does happen. I'm just going to think of one where I'm on the board and this particular founder, you know, was very straight up to the board saying, look, here's what happened. We had all this, we didn't do this right. We had wasted product. This is why you're seeing the cogs and the margins go down in this month. And that was the one-time expense. And we've realized, and we've learned from it. And here's what we're doing in the future now to go there. And I was like, good on you. Like that was an awesome way to handle a mistake and totally admit to it.

35:11Jamie Borteck:And the other example I can think of, you know, sometimes I can get a peek at just the founder, maybe in front of the team and how that goes. And I'd seen in one case, a founder, you know, I think was just like there were things that they were getting angry at. And then they came back and said to the team, like, you know what, that's on me. I'm real sorry. You know, they were just this faceless leader. There was human side to it, helping their teammates. So I've also seen that in action. And I think that's really good. Those are, there's probably several others that I'm just forgetting, but those are two that I can think of right off the bat.

35:45Hannah Dittman:Yeah. Two really strong, powerful ones, which is the humility and the accountability of owning mistakes and being okay, knowing that that's going to happen in a business and righting the wrong as soon as possible and being human and being an empathetic leader and understanding that everyone on your team is also a human and really believing in you and working hard for you and appreciating what people are bringing to the table. I think to your earlier point in the conversation of you just want to work with good people, I think those are some of the ways that you can typically see that in a founder come through for sure.

36:17Hannah Dittman:I'd love to take the opportunity given that you've got a lot of insight on the market and are an expert in your sectors for sure. Are there any market insights or shifts that you think are particularly interesting, exciting to you, or might be relevant for founders fundraising or starting to try to build a brand right now?

36:35Jamie Borteck:Yeah, I think, you know, I get exposed to different categories in different situations. And I think in one sector, I'm pretty intrigued by brands that have figured out, and it's not for every brand, right? But brands that have figured out a way to almost like stay native in early days and build a pretty shockingly amazing DTC business. And I can't say for me, it wasn't the case for food should taste good. You know, with Grillo's Pickles as a refrigerated pickle, I was like, we ain't touching that. Right. But I've been around businesses that have, and I'm, you know, through the years I've learned more and more and I'm been really open eyes to say, wow, how great is that?

37:17Jamie Borteck:And what I also really like about that is just the built-in awareness of the advertising that's coming with great spend and growing and targeted and learnings that those businesses are getting to feed more awareness in the market than say the brands that just like constant retail and then never really have enough. A lot of times you never have enough true trial and awareness budget to like do damage as an emerging brand. You make do and you bootstrap. But the brands that had that, like I really respect what they're building in the brand itself up front. So if you have that or you're thinking about creating a business that can do that, I think that's a really good space.

38:01Jamie Borteck:You think of like Grunz and some of these businesses in the world, they've AG1 and like they have just really built empires strictly through a really, really strong DTC model and they've gotten the CAC right. They've got average order. They've got all the dynamics to like continue. And by the way, if you're an early business and you can do that, you have data, you have stats, you have reviews. Those are proof of performance for investors, where sometimes I've heard, you know, a founder just say, Hey, Jamie, I need your advice on something. We're trying to get investment and got into this one account, which isn't measured by Nielsen or something like that.

38:40Jamie Borteck:And buyer said, great. And I'm like, no, you need some data. You need some proof in the pudding. So advice to all that is try to find those places. And if your category product type can work in D2C, even Amazon ratings, economics, and you're building something into the brand, I would go that route because investors, I believe will look at those stats to say, Hey, there's something here. And I can't wait to see, maybe you have to do one retail tests, but it could be small and you might be in an early state and you can't afford or don't have the team to do the national jump into retail so you can sector it that way.

39:19Jamie Borteck:That's one area I'm kind of intrigued by a lot.

39:22Hannah Dittman:Yeah, I think a super great point. And even retail buyers, I think, are leaning and looking more to that direction as they're pulling back some of the discovery and experiential, depending on the category you're talking about, food, I think is still got a little bit more runway than other categories. But, you know, when categories soften or foot traffic's down or purchasing's down, like it has been in beauty personal care, for instance, for a period of time, you know, they start to reorient how they're thinking about bringing new brands in and tightening the rope on that. And I think even you'll see Target in their accelerator program has been pounding that drum a little bit for a while where they don't want to be your first account anymore as much as they want you to have a vetted good traction under you and know you're going to be a success when you come into their doors.

40:09Hannah Dittman:Because, you know, it's hard to rip brands and products off shelf and have a lot of turnover within each category too. As you know, Startup CPG has the largest Slack community in the industry with now over 35 ,000 members. I'd love to pull a question directly from our channel and have you answer it as a case study for any founders with a similar question. Today's question is very topical and timely for you. When should I think about bringing on advisors to my startup and how do I know it is the right time?

40:36Jamie Borteck:You know, I think that's just a gut level for you individually of where you feel like you're spending your days and you're wondering and you're needing support. And there might be times where like, you know another founder, you know a friend and you can ask a favor and get advice to vice. But maybe when you need like, I need this and I need someone who's like accountable to answer some questions when things are going on, who's like really a part of me, you'll start to feel it. And that I think is the right time. It's not like a specific date. It's not a revenue number. I think it's catered to what you feel you need it.

41:12Jamie Borteck:And like we talked about, you could always try something and it doesn't necessarily, shouldn't have to be this long-term commitment if it's not what you're looking for. Especially, I would say, if you don't have it and you're starting to really grow and you're getting to the point where you're going through a Series A and you're going to have investors in board seats and things like that, I think a good idea to have that independent and someone with some operating experience to kind of help you. So that might be the timing for someone. But more cases than not, the advisorship can come way earlier.

41:47Jamie Borteck:It's just got to be the right fit for you based on your needs.

41:50Hannah Dittman:Great answer and very helpful context for people to orient to. Jamie, I could spend the whole day talking to you. I feel like you are definitely a mentor and a coach. There's so many things I'd love to learn from your brain. I feel like you've got so much great experience. For anyone that might want to get in touch and work with you, any founders out there that might be feeling like they need an advisor, what's the best way for them to reach you? And second part of that question, do you have any advice for anyone interested in working in a similar capacity as an advisor out there in the CPG industry.

42:23Jamie Borteck:Yes. To your first question, I would say maybe just LinkedIn. That's probably the best. Sometimes email and stuff can be really tough to catch up on. So LinkedIn, and I try to do my best to respond. And sometimes it might be, hey, call my cell. I'm driving this if you have a question. So LinkedIn would be best. And to other advisors out there or people looking to get into it, I just think be you and be, think of where you want to be, where you add value and talk to people that you want to work with. I think passion will come through. Your impact will come through if it's the right fit. And if it's great and it's a mutual fit, awesome.

43:05Jamie Borteck:If it's not, no big deal, right? But I would say just think more holistically of where you could perfectly fit in and meet those people. And, you know, that could happen. and you're just randomly at a party at Expo West and you just meet somebody or those things like that, you'll feel that out when the right time is.

43:23Hannah Dittman:Well, thank you so much again for being here today and for sharing so much thought leadership and lessons learned and wisdom. It was a real treat to get a peek behind the curtain of your experience in the advisor seat. And I think a really awesome way for a lot of people to get inspired and learn and think through different ways they can get some true partnership in tackling challenges in their business. So thank you so much again, Jamie.

43:47Jamie Borteck:Well, thank you. Great talking with you and thank Startup CPG for everything you guys are doing in the industry. I think it's tremendous and it's really helping businesses. I love to see it.

43:57Hannah Dittman:Thank you. Well, friends, we've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast, the top globally ranked podcast in CPG. And if you love this podcast, you'll love our Slack community even more. Here at Startup CPG, we're a community of brands and experts, and you should join. Sign up at StartupCPG.com. You'll then get an invite to our online Slack community of over 35 ,000 all-star CPG members, hear about amazing events near you, and all our special opportunities to get you in front of buyers, investors, brands, and more. It's a free community. So what are you waiting for?

44:34Hannah Dittman:I'll catch you on the next episode, and I'll see you on the Slack.

44:42you