We're launching Founders & Formulators - Here's Why

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1:16Welcome to the Startup CPG podcast. We're doing a mini episode today because on July 12th, we are launching a brand new event format called Founders and Formulators. This is your chance as a brand to get in front of a bunch of very cool formulators who can either help you bring your product to life, or they can give you a bunch of really good feedback on your product. Or maybe you just have a specific question like, how do I improve the shelf life or I'm running up against this quality issue. Either way, you're going to want to be there in the room. We're doing it in Chicago on July 12th. It's because it's the day before the Institute of Food Technologists annual convention, which means a bunch of those formulators are going to be in town, and this is your chance to get to meet them.

1:58I'm really excited that on today's podcast, I am interviewing Adam Yee. You know him as the host of our R &D Radio episodes. He is a food scientist, and he's also worked on the brand side. So he's going to provide both perspectives on why he thinks this is a really cool event and how he would make the most of it. And then also we just have a good general discussion about how to work with food scientists, how he would use our recently released database to find the perfect partner to work with on your product and a bunch more. I hope you enjoy it. And I really hope to see you at that event. If you want to check out the link, it is in the show notes.

2:32All right, here we go.

2:38All right, Adam, my friend, you have now shifted from podcast host back to podcast guest for one special bonus episode. I'm very happy to have you here because you are the expert on this topic. And we, as probably a lot of people know, are doing our first ever founders and formulators. So we're really excited about this event. It's happening in Chicago the day before the IFT Institute of Food Technologists show happens because a lot of food technologists, which means formulators, product developers are going to be in town. So let's take advantage. So on July 12th at the Palmer House Hilton, one of my absolute favorite hotels in the world, we are going to be doing this really cool speed dating type event.

3:18And the purpose of it is, okay, if you're a brand, walk in there. Maybe you're just still trying to launch your product and you can go and find your formulator. That's awesome. There are going to be a ton of them in the room with different specialties. Or maybe you have a product and this is the tough part. Get them to rip it apart. Give them your product. it's such a cool opportunity to have somebody who is very technical actually either just give you general feedback or maybe you have a specific question for them like i think it's good but i'm trying to improve my shelf life right something like that so i'm really pumped about it can you just tell me like how do you think about this kind of event even from a product developer's standpoint which you are yeah i've been talking to your team a lot about how to talk about how formulators can benefit and also how can founders benefit and i would say like networking is really hard for food scientists.

4:03Even though we're going to this national show called IFT, the Institute of Food Technologists, where literally, I would say it's the top food science nerd show that happens every year around this time. We thought it'd be a great idea if food formulators are already there looking for great ingredients and great solutions to pair up with the founders in the area. And I think this is a great opportunity for Denton Network, not only with other founders, but also other formulators too. Yeah, what a good time. I'm just so excited about this venue as well. We just had our Cahey grocery run in the Palmer House Hilton as well.

4:37It's such a historic, beautiful place, downtown Chicago. It's gorgeous. I can't wait for people to see it. I can't wait either, wow. Yeah, and so, man, I was just reflecting on this because you and I have been in this industry for a minute now. And I think when I worked at a huge multinational CBG, I didn't think about it this way, but at the startups that I've worked at, you can give everything and we can help everybody with everything that we can, meaning like getting into stores and getting investment. But the end of the day, if your product is not good, it's not going to work out. And you might waste five years of your life desperately trying to build something with all of your talent and investment that just might not ultimately hit because the product wasn't good enough.

5:22And so we do the grocery runs, we do the founders and funders event. But for me, this is actually going way back to the beginning and hopefully setting people up on the path to success by giving them a much better weapon to fight with, a much better product. What do you think? Because yeah, you've been in this industry for a long time as well, like just working on that specifically for brands. Yeah, let me think. Seven jobs, two founded startups, like two other just as a member of startups from biotechnology to protein powders. I've done a lot and I've seen a lot of different ways to commercialize a product.

5:57And now that I help other founders just kind of start with just an idea, like there is a common thread, which basically formulators have a knowledge that is pretty hard to communicate to founders. And sometimes we do have to hire food scientists to kind of figure out, to work with the founder, to bring a product to commercialization. Because if you've been the R &D radio episodes, that's kind of what we do. We try to translate what you want in your kitchen to essentially a factory that can then be produced in the shelf that's not only safe, but also delicious. So what I see here is that there is kind of this tricks of the trade that we as formulators, and every formulator does have a trick of trade that we can really share with founders that the clients I work with are just enlightened to hear about.

6:43A lot of things that we can do is like look at a product and ask a series of questions and say how we believe we can improve the product. And some are really specialized in and some are just like very enthusiastic about the category as well. Give me an example of that. That's really cool to hear you talk about it that way. So like you go up and there's somebody sampling a product and what are those questions you might ask them in order to give them some feedback? Do you need to like actually turn the thing around and see the ingredient label or is it really just from your experience trying the product and what you know about the composition of it and the processes that are used to make that kind of food product?

7:21Yeah. So what I like to do generally is just talk. I think vibes is really important, like understanding if the formulator and the founder have a good vibe. Like, are they passionate about what you're doing? Do they care what you're doing? Because I've had some clients that told me like, oh, yeah, my past food scientists didn't really care what I was doing. And that's therefore I wanted to work with you, for instance. And I do do you think there is a vibe depending on the product depending on the person I do think that's actually really important so you'll get to know them a little bit are they doing as a side hustle are they doing this like as a full-time thing and then after that they hand me the product and I look at it a little bit and I'll talk about it like what was the idea from the product and what was kind of the inspiration for the product that's really important too and after that taste it and when you taste it you can get a lot of feedback from the texture from the flavor we generally will also question like how you are planning to sell this are you planning to sell this like let's say i was handled like a liquid product like a milk and i said like okay are you planning to sell this as a milk how do you plan on selling as a milk are you planning to sell it like without refrigeration or with refrigeration have you explored looking into a powder format for this drink as well so we'll just ask these questions and i think what's great about this event is that you're going to get a lot of really good perspectives from a lot of great experts And I think when you hear those collective perspectives, it becomes really aligning out where you should go next with your product.

8:41Gosh, I like that answer a lot. You're so good at this. I was expecting you to be like, yeah, I'll just look at the ingredients and then be like, did you think about doing this? But actually, you gave such a thoughtful, strategic, holistic answer that I think it really shows how long you've been in the business and that you really understand it's not just about a technical question from somebody who has like just goes deep on one skill set. It actually takes that holistic understanding of what is the product? What's the strategy? What's the marketing of this? What are you trying to do with it before you could actually even get to an answer like that?

9:11I don't know why. Ryan reminds me like my parents are both psychiatrists. That's even I want to go. Yeah. Yeah. Some people could guess that, but I'm fine, though. Some people will just ask them like, hey, OK, what do you think about this? Like, or like, can you diagnose that one celebrity? I'm like, yeah, like you have to ask a lot of questions. really actually understandable context before you do something like that. So I really like that super pro answer from Adam. Okay. Thank you. I try to be. Let's see if you do as well on the next one. No. Okay. All right. And I feel like we're really privileged to get to invite all of these formulators to the event.

9:48We went through this very big process of building the first ever database of all of the product developers out there. And we'll put it in the show notes here. reminder to everybody. It's a free resource that we built and it's so that you can get in touch with the right person. And there's a lot in there. The management consultant in me is obsessed with just let's put in all of the central effort. So this is a great tool for everybody. So it's not just a list of people. It talks about what they do. What are their product specialties? What are their capabilities? What are the different kinds of things that they actually do?

10:16Do they like working with startups or not? Cause they don't all, some of them only work with bigger companies, right? I think that was your feedback to get that in there. Okay. And then are they a freelancer? maybe cheaper or an agency, maybe more expensive, but also they can have a fuller service operation. What are the projects they've done? What are the customers that they've worked with if they're able to disclose that? And then obviously that good contact info, including where they're located, because my dream is for people to find the exact right person, maybe even within driving distance, because it is such a joy to get to do this in person if those vibes are right, as you mentioned.

10:49So yeah, just a reminder to everybody that's out there. And that is really like a lot of how we're sourcing these experts to come to the event. So we're really excited to be getting all the brands together with a bunch of those formulators and make some great magic happen. So tell me how you would approach this event if you were a brand, Adam. So you walk in the room, we've got a bunch of formulators there, you can see ahead of time kind of who they are and what some of their skills are. Are you going in, let's say you have a product, like how are you even going to try to focus them on the issue?

11:20Let's say you have five minutes with a formulator and you want to get as much out of them as possible to potentially improve your product? How are you going to try to talk to them? How are you going to try to convey a bunch of information that they might need in a short amount of time and get them focused on the thing that you need them to help you with right away? Although probably a lot of them are open to follow-up combos. Yeah. Talk with your team. We're planning to have handouts to kind of bubble up some questions that can be useful for both the founder and the formulator. And I think that would be really helpful to kind of direct how you would answer these type of questions.

11:46Because dealing with a food scientist, some people have never talk to a food scientist. No one really knows what I do generally, even like in parties or mixers or whatever, right? So it is a field that has a lot of really cool information. So I would say first, kind of do your research. Every consultant should have their website up on the Formulators and Founders event. Do your research, understand kind of what they are. Some have an episode on R &D Radio that is, we seem to get a lot of positive responses when people listen to the episode and decide on a formulator because the personality does show and then i would say like in terms of a brand perspective you know go with a challenge that you have and i think every formula there will have an answer to that challenge and i think as a good scientist when you collect data you then correlate to an answer as you collect more data so let's say for example a shelf life could be a challenge that you have like i have high mold count on a product and or this cookie gets too soggy when I leave it for like three months.

12:47A formula will generally ask you questions and then you would answer them. And then through that inquiry would give you an answer. And sometimes that answer might be an ingredient. It could be a packaging. It could be a protocol on retail. Like every food scientist will have an answer for that question, really, because we as food scientists follow a basic law of nature, though we do all handle it pretty differently based off our expertise in the industry. I'm really excited about this event, Adam. And thank you so much for being part of our team and working with our team to try to make it as good as it can be, because obviously you go very deep and you've been an independent food scientist working with brands and you've been on the brand side very heavily as well.

13:27So you really understand what is in people's heads and hearts as they're going through this process. But I'm really excited about it. And just to put it out there into the world on this podcast, I really believe this can be a landmark event for the industry. There is nothing out there helping brands connect with the right formulator. We do not have that event in this industry that has this kind of a matchmaking. I want to do this product. I want to devote my life for the foreseeable future to building this dream. Where can I find the right person to make it for me? There are things out there for finding ingredients, finding buyers.

14:03We've done a really good job, I think, events finding investors for early stage project, but not formulators. And so I really hope that this will just continue to grow over the years and be something that people look at as that is just where you go to find the formulator. And I believe that it is going to be so well received by brands and also by formulators who we really love and support and appreciate coming to these kind of events. Like you said, like you don't always get to run into them at events, but they're just as eager to network and they're showing up with the intention of giving you their expertise at the event obviously you can hire them as well maybe you will find the perfect person to work on your dream with you find your match yeah pair up with let's go right off into the sunset and yeah i'm super excited about it honestly really proud that we've been able to find so many matches through the database that we've built as well i mean i know because you're one of the people listed in the database as well because you are an amazing podcast host for us and do the newsletter but obviously you do other stuff with your time as well and you are a freelance food scientist what have you heard about it because you're on the receiving end and you're friends with all the other people on there what are you hearing about the database yeah i think a lot of people have been getting inquiries i'll say that you know it's funny rachel zemser who's been on the r &d radio podcast says like because her name's on the top she gets a good amount of inquiry which is funny and we also see a lot more like people looking down the list because i'm on the bottom actually because umai works is a bot is you right so it's like on the bottom but they still find me i think because i generally say i focus on a certain like type of startup so they are looking through the list right which i think is great and they are getting inquiries i'm getting inquiries and i'm also getting muscle closing now a lot of startups which i think is really great and i do think that the list is a good understanding of like what is truly out there and i do think the podcast, which you always welcome formulators to be on it.

15:59Just email me at adam at startupcpg.com. I think sharing their personality and the way they do things is really enlightening, not only to the founders who are listening and the brands that are listening, but also to me, actually. It's really cool learning about how other food formulators are handling and working with clients. And I think that's also been something that I find really good. And reconnecting with them is also super fun as well. A lot of them are people I've known once or twice. And so I do think like sharing their stories and how they approach problems, because there are a lot of problems in how we make a food product, I think is really, really fun.

16:37That's great. I'm so glad that you have already gotten numerous clients, it sounds like, through the database. I really love it because a lot of the food scientists are so passionate about the work that they do. And I do think also sometimes people in those positions are, it's kind of word of mouth and like project to project for them if they're not part of an agency or something. And so it's so great when they have these massive skill sets to just help them find the perfect match. And it can be really great for the brands, obviously, as well. And it sounds like maybe you're thinking about renaming your company to AAA Umayworks or something to get up to the top.

17:11There are so many companies. Apparently, Jeff Bezos made the Amazon because it has an A in it. that's what I heard. All right. Well, okay. That makes sense to me. Maybe I was going to say, like, I know it can get you to the top of the list, but no, it's alphabetized. That's what it is. Nah, don't worry. Listen, if people want to find me, they can find me, right? We'll give you his address, everybody. Okay. Last question for you here. Let's say you are a brand using that list. There's a lot in there. Like I hear what you're saying about vibes. First, how would you use the actual resource that's there and look through the list and decide who to talk to, how many people to talk to?

17:44Would you try to send them your product first? Like all that stuff. How would you like really select and negotiate terms with the right formulator for your project? Yeah. So here's what I also learned just through talking to a lot of formulators, even when I had to make my own business is that we all are doing things pretty differently, I would say. And there is actually a black box in terms of how consultants work or formulator consultants work. And I think that's really interesting. So I do suggest really talk. And also, I do think location is really important. And I do think how they communicate project deliverables is actually really important too.

18:20So some people do hourly, some people do a project-based. I think that's really important to vet out and understand your budget. For me, example, I do project-based because I want founders to really budget out how they're going to work with a formula, for instance. I've been talking to a lot of people and some people do that and some people don't. And I think their expertise on a certain product category is really important. For example, I don't touch drinks. I've never made a liquid drink product. So I don't want to do that. So I'd recommend others. And generally, most consultants do recommend people as well.

18:52And I think that's also something to keep in mind. What is their expertise? What have they worked on in past projects before that can help you at your specific time? That makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think especially about like just even understanding how they work, because you mentioned just specifically the kind of fee base. But any other examples of like what could be really different from one formulator to the next? Yeah, I do think deliverables and how we talk about deliverables really does matter between food scientists. And I think we are being hired to solve a technical problem.

19:25And what does a technical problem look like when it's completed, I think is really important. Some formulators base off essentially hourly and that's fine. And some functional layers base it off of, let's say, product iterations. So how many iterations does it take? How many product samples are sent back and forth? Some are kind of work in a different method. But we all have a certain set of deliverables we have to give to you. And I do think if there was something I would itemize and write down and compare, it would be the deliverables and how they are priced. And what is the value of that deliverable to you at that time?

20:00I think that's a really important answer. And I hope everybody really hears that because that is, I would say, the one risk area for founders working with formulators, especially independent ones, is the formulator feels like the project is done and the brand is not. Because it's your baby. And like, yeah, you're going to give this to me. But like, wait, it's not. No, like that's not as good as I want it to be. Well, how clear is that? Is it clear if the formulator in that instance needs to do another run on it? Or are they going to feel like, no, it's complete. You asked me to do that thing and I did that thing.

20:31So I totally agree with you. the more that you can spell that out, the better in the contract, just so it's clear to everybody and you don't get in these spats because those spats are so nasty between two small companies and like no one's going to really go hire a big time lawyer for that. You're just going to be really pissed about it. Yeah. So my hope is that people can be really clear about the deliverables, like you mentioned, so that it reduces the chance of that happening. So very well put. Yeah. All right. I'm going to wrap us up here, Adam, but I'm very excited to see you. Of course. soon at a bunch of our events and especially at this founders and formulators the first of its kind but not the last only the beginning of connecting all of the exciting brands out there with their dream formulators and from now on then we'll have nothing but beautiful products with perfect shelf life and no quality control issues ever there you go i do want to say one thing working with the team has been amazing i would say you have one of the probably one of the well-run team I've ever met.

21:27And everyone has been super supportive, super great. And they invite me to free events. So I've been in Asheville. I've been in Boston. I'm going to a fancy food show on one of your events. And now I'm going to Chicago-based Founders of Formulated event. And I do think like some of the impacts for the podcast and the newsletter, people are asking questions about things they don't know about. And I love answering them. So really appreciate being on the team, Daniel. Thanks. We appreciate you. We're just scheduling events around your travel schedule so that we can hang out with you. But I really appreciate those words about my team.

22:01I think we're extremely lucky. I think part of just the joy of what we do attracts great people. They're very talented and they work really hard to bring everybody together and deliver real value to the whole industry. And we have a lot of fun doing it. And it's a really confident, hardworking team and a lot of fun to be around. So I really appreciate that. And I know So I can see the huge impact of what you're doing as well. And I especially love the newsletters for everybody who is subscribed to our email newsletter, who gets to see Adam's R &D. Newsletters that come out are just so well written and researched and they're such great topics.

22:35I love it. Just really, really interesting, compelling stuff for anybody in this industry to check out. So thank you, my friend. Yeah, no problem. I love writing them. As someone who just likes data and expressing data in fun ways, for me, it's an awesome way of, you know, teaching food science to other people it's it really is a passion project of mine to do that all right well i will wrap this up here thank you again adam it's been quite a nice journey with you here ever since i was on your podcast back in i want to say 2018 i think god that's such a long time ago yeah my first ever podcast guest appearance and look at the monster that you've unleashed with with this podcast yeah yeah that's awesome no it feels great and again i always to say this, like, well, you have Bill Daniel is very, very impressive.

23:20I'll say this in every podcast I'm on here. Thank you, bro. We're much stronger now that we have you also on the team. So let's go. All right. Bye, everybody. See you all at Founders and Formulators. All right. Well, my friends, we've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast, the top globally ranked podcast in CPG. As you may know, we're not just a podcast, We're a community of brands and experts, and you should join. You can sign up at startupcpg.com. You'll then get an invite to our online Slack community. You're going to hear about amazing events near you, all of our special opportunities to get you in front of buyers, investors, brands, and more.

23:59It's a free community. So what are you waiting for? I will see you there or on our next episode. Bye-bye.

24:18Thank you.