Why Investor Ryan Ball Wants You to Pivot Fast and Fundraise Smart

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1:42I think the good ones are the ones that don't go too fast. Obviously, there is like an urgency. So you want to scale up your product and you want to get it in the market before a competitor beats you or anything like that. But like really takes the time to understand their market position, goes through like the bullseye process of figuring out what works on your marketing, really listens to the customers so that when it is time to raise and time to grow all that work, you're pulling back the slingshot.

2:10Hannah Dittman:Hey, everyone. I'm Hannah Dittman, finance and operations host of the Startup CPG podcast. and today I'm excited to be joined by Ryan Ball, founder of Spirian Ventures. Ryan is a former founder and entrepreneur who knows firsthand what it takes to build and scale a business. In addition to leading Spirian Ventures, an investment group that backs high potential startups through an SPV model, he also operates a freight logistics company, giving him a unique perspective on the operational challenges founders face every day. Drawing on his own entrepreneurial experience, Ryan intimately understands the founders he meets with and brings a practical, founder-focused approach to evaluating companies and supporting them as they grow.

2:51Hannah Dittman:In this episode, we explore the metrics Ryan believes matter most when evaluating early stage businesses, the consumer categories that are currently capturing his attention, and how Spirian Ventures' SPV investment model differs from a traditional venture fund. We also walk through Spirian's diligence and investment process, discuss the founder qualities that consistently stand out, and share practical advice for entrepreneurs preparing to raise capital. Whether you're beginning your fundraising journey or looking to better understand how experienced investors evaluate opportunities, this episode is full of actionable insights you don't want to miss.

3:26Hannah Dittman:Enjoy!

3:30Hannah Dittman:Hey everybody, welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Hannah and today I'm excited to be here for an investor spotlight with Ryan Ball of Spirian Ventures. Ryan, welcome to the show. Hi, Anna. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Thank you for being here. I'd love to dive straight in and get a brief background of your journey through consumer and industries and the path that led you to Spirian today. Yeah, so it's probably a more unique story. I was getting my MBA and I was a part of what was called the McCombs Entrepreneurship Organization when I was doing it. And we would host AMAs and panels and have meetups to just do Q &A internally of just like, hey, how do you address this problem?

4:14What's your experience? Whatever. We had a lot of questions about investing, about venture capital. And it kind of got to a point where I said, would you guys be interested in doing a deal if we can find one? And they said, yes. So I made some phone calls and someone gave me a minimum check size to get in on a deal that looked interesting. I brought it to the group and said, hey, if you guys collectively can put together this much money, we can make this investment. And we did it. And that was a CPG deal. And then we just kept doing it. And it's just evolved over time as sort of this like SPV model, kind of like an angel network thing where myself and my partner, Stephen, just from our own deal flow, which kind of ebbs and flows, we just get all these opportunities.

4:57And if we think there's something that's interesting enough to give to the group, we want to QA it a little bit, but at the end of the day, we're not making decisions on investments, but we want to bring them something that we know are going to be winners. We present it to the group. They raise their hand if they want to put in funds and we take it from there and spin up an SPV. And, you know, aside from CPG, which we're like 50 % CPG, 50 % tech, I also started a spice company called Ball Foods. And I did this also during grad school. I was very busy at this time. And so I've been through that whole founder's journey.

5:29And then now I run a logistics company and logistics are a big part of the success for scaling a CPG company. A, it helps me on diligence. I understand what their supply chain system looks like. And then B, it's also like a way for me to add value to the company, in addition to just being a multiple founder prior to this anyway. I'm very much more an entrepreneur than a standard VC. I wouldn't even say that I'm a venture capitalist, to be honest. Those are just the kind of deals we end up doing. But I vet it from a perspective of what I know. And because of what I know and my logistics company, who we work with, it inevitably leads us to early stage companies and they're raising money.

6:12And then it's like, OK, well, we have this fund. I'd like to look at your deck if you don't mind. And we just take it from there.

6:17Hannah Dittman:Awesome background. And you've definitely seen the world from many different angles, which I think is exciting and very helpful as you empathize with founders and also navigate that through the investment process with them. It's always nice to be speaking with someone who intimately understands some of the things that you're saying and going through at the time. I'd love to dive into an overview of Spirian specifically, but before we do that, I wanted to double click on a term that you were using, SPV. Could you explain a little bit more about what that means and what that entails from an investment perspective?

6:50Yeah, so an SPV, it means special purpose vehicle. It basically just means we put together a singular LLC for each investment. So all of our investors into that round from our network, they become owners in that LLC. that LLC has a bank account attachment, we write a check to the company. So the company just gets one check from one entity, but we've put it together for the special purpose of being the management place of that investment.

7:17Hannah Dittman:Is there any difference for a founder experience to go through with an SPV versus maybe a different style of round or check? Yeah, I mean, the similarities are certainly there from a diligence perspective. We ask for specific questions. There's KPIs that matter where they are in the stage of their company. The difference is I've looked at some amazing deals that don't always go through. And part of that is because the group just simply doesn't like it or enough people don't like it. Sometimes part of that is just timing, which is really unfortunate. You know, just like if we've done too many deals, the well kind of runs dry.

7:54So it's just like, sorry, it's bad timing. We can't do it right now. I try to be upfront about all of these things in the beginning. And we went through a big overhaul. Actually, the fund. Spirian is a new name for our fund, our project. And we did have some companies that we met. It was the opportunities were there. We're trying to hurry through the process like, hey, you're going to have to bear with us. We're moving a little slow right now because we're updating things. So, you know, sometimes there's just timing issues. You know, I guess that's what I'm getting at. And I just try to be as upfront about what makes us different as possible in the beginning.

8:27And hopefully that doesn't lead to too much disappointment because I would write checks in a lot more companies than we end up writing checks in. But, you know, that's not how it works.

8:36Hannah Dittman:Right. It's like the group consensus. How many people are typically involved in each funding process? The network is around 100 right now, and it's been kind of carefully built over time. And then I'd say it's usually much smaller groups that make investments. And we have some people that are much more frequent than others. I think you probably end up with like 10 or 15, maybe less depending on the size of the deal. It's like the minimum check size can create, usually leads to more investments depending on the stage of the company. Right. That makes a ton of sense. I'd love to further dive into Spirian a little bit and understand your criteria, stage size that you're focusing on, average check size, mandate, and all the different attributes that you're looking for in investable businesses.

9:21So I wouldn't say this is exclusive, but I'd say for the vast majority, we want to be investing in scaling something. You know, early stage brands, they have an idea. Sometimes it could be something incredible with an incredible team. You know, those deals exist out there. I don't know that we're always seeing them. Like the ones that get funded with a napkin idea don't normally come to us. I think for a CPG company, you need to be in the like$1 to$10 million range. is probably, you know, for revenue, like when we're getting involved, like you've got it worked out. You've probably done a few pivots.

9:54I really like to see pivots because it shows like trial and error. You're not really married to anything. You're looking for product fit. You know, that like hearing those stories is always big. How present you are in retail is not necessarily a requirement, but I think it's rarer for a brand to come to us that's doing like very heavy e-commerce that isn't always also in retail. You know, so you definitely have to have some sales partnerships and retail presence, like some data. We cannot make a decision without data. Like we have to see velocity. That's like the number one thing that any founder raising money for a CBG company should have really good velocity data in their deck.

10:32And my personal preference, I like to see pre-promo, during a promo and post-promo because that'll tell me a lot about the rebuy rate in general for the product. And then like how well do the promos work? it starts to paint a picture of like, what's the scalability going to be of this? Like, do we just need to get this on taste buds? Or is there something more elaborate to the sales cycle? You know, you just don't know until you look into it.

10:56Hannah Dittman:Are there any lessons learned that you're pulling forward from your own entrepreneurial experience that helps you in a diligence or evaluation process, particularly? Yes, I think I seem to notice that I can get into a pretty casual conversation with the entrepreneur because I am an entrepreneur. And like really kind of, it's not a very stiff diligence process. You know, I can be, oh, did you deal with this? Yeah, that's a pain. You know, like talking about changes and struggles and bottlenecks and all those kinds of things, just really conversationally through that. I'm just getting to know the entrepreneur, like trying to like really fill them out like a real deal.

11:34You know, what happened when you ran into a roadblock here, you know, and bring up something that I've encountered specifically that relates to that deal of some struggle that just shows me what their character's like. It's not how hard you work. It's how hard it is to stop you most of the time. So for these deals, if CBG is a tough space, you're going to have some struggles. You need to be able to fight through them. And then on top of that, like how creative are you at navigating those? I get that from like a storytelling perspective. I usually pull those answers out. I don't know that all VCs can do that, but I haven't said in a lot of their meetings.

12:10Hannah Dittman:Very interesting. I'd love to also better understand your diligence process in general and what it looks like end-to-end working with Spirian. What's the beginning process, deal sourcing, activity like? And then how does it flow through the rest of the process all the way to funding? Yeah, so deal sourcing is, it's very much a network thing for us. You know, we're not necessarily like marketing our services necessarily. I also own a logistics company. I mentioned this before, Rockwell Services. is we do a lot of CPG freight. It's effectively the same funnel as looking for these investments because I like to find companies early, you know, when the founders are taking off hats and I'm like, look, I'm a founder.

12:51I get it. Like I've done this. Let me help you. Give me a hat and I will expand your bandwidth. You focus on sales and I'll take care of the logistics part. Inevitably, they're all early enough that they're raising money. And if it's like I want to work with the same companies that I also want to invest in because I've like there's upside here. They're going to make it. Inevitably, I just say, look, I have this investment fund that I also run, Spirian. We'd love to take a look if you can share your details. I'd say that's the majority of the time how the flow comes through. After that, we need to see a deck.

13:22I like to see a data room, a little bit of time to go through it. We have this initial list of questions that we like the founder to answer directly. this also helps us share information with our network, kind of simulates that like communication direct to the investors instead of us having to filter too much. We don't want to redo it. But we do put our opinions with a disclaimer that like this isn't a recommendation. This is just Ryan's thoughts. And then we maybe have a meeting or two to fill in the blanks. After that, we present the opportunity to the group with a form to express interest. If there is interest, where there's usually a follow-up and we like to get the founder in front of the group as well.

14:00So we'll do like an online meeting where they can kind of run through the deck in their own words and then go through some Q &A. And after that, maybe a little bit of email follow-up and then we do the deal. And we try to condense that maybe to only a week or two if we can. I mean, we're moving a lot faster now than we used to. We've really modernized our process. And then beyond that, I really like to stay on as an advisor. I'd say, look, look, we've made the investment. Like, let me help you work through, come to me if you want the help. Someone's got to want help. They've got to ask for it.

14:32But I'd lay out my credentials as like, look, obviously logistics, I can be helpful. I've done a dozen startups or so. I can be helpful there at management consulting and strategy. You know, like there's all these different ways that I think I can add value in addition to just writing the check. And I think for any founder, they should be asking the question when they're raising money, Like, what else am I going to get out of this relationship besides you writing me a check? Like, you know, you want to find the smart money that's adding a lot of value and like cares about like seeing their investment succeed and puts in effort to get it there.

15:04It's not always the case. From my perspective, I think that's what they should be looking for.

15:08Hannah Dittman:That makes a ton of sense. And that's so true and well said. I feel like especially if you're doing well, you've built something that is working on its own and now you're trying to grow it further. You don't want to just give that all away and all that hard work for something that isn't going to give you the absolute best shot at future success, the same way that you wouldn't do that with any other aspect of your business. You know, you wouldn't go through a marketing campaign or hire a new person that you didn't think was going to be just a plus plus athlete on your team. So I think a similar mindset to the fundraising process, although, of course, getting capital and the need for capital and all of that can add a layer of emotional anxiety and stress that can definitely be there in that scarcity mindset.

15:52Hannah Dittman:But I think having conviction in your partners, as you're mentioning, picking the best one that's best suited for your business is really important as well. If you could tell founders or operators one piece of advice that you think you've gleaned from fundraising or from your other work experiences or from working alongside businesses logistically or anything like that, what would it be and why? Well, definitely you want to track good data. And I don't just mean like quantitative spreadsheets. I mean like verifiable information that confirms whatever you're trying to sell, both as a product and from a fundraising perspective.

16:32You need to be fundraising from a position of confidence. Like this is a good opportunity. I have proven this is a good opportunity. We need capital because we simply don't have enough to move fast enough or we don't have enough to realize the true potential of this. But if you really have that proven, that thing, like I have a software project that I'm working on right now. This is all to the side. And the question for anything like that is like, can you sell it? And it's like, I didn't start getting into the fundraising position until I had already sold it to a few people. I'm like, yes, I've made a few phone calls.

17:06It was easy. We can do it. I can do more of this. You know, like showing that you've done that. And that's not necessarily applicable to CBG. I think for that, it's just sales velocity is going to tell that, paint that picture. If you have e-com, great data because you can see like the civic person, how frequently individual peoples are rebuying and get your rebuy velocity rate. But anyway, maybe trailed off a little bit too much there. But I'd say having really good data and then making decisions from a position of confidence. Like, don't lie to yourself. Really find out if the market wants this.

17:38Really find out what's working and what's not working. And abandon what's not quick and move on to what is.

17:43Hannah Dittman:That's a great piece of advice. And I feel like it's easy to be overwhelmed with coming to that point, especially because there's so many different factors that go into a business. it's really hard to pinpoint down one specific thing, you know, because if you don't have your repeat rates, there's a million things that could be wrong with a product or maybe it's something to do with marketing or something completely different or the even the size of the packaging or there could be so many things going on. So I also think like you're saying, being really data driven, but also kind of being a detective and being willing to continue to pull back the layers of the onion until you feel like you really have a good understanding for what's going on behind that data is equally as important.

18:25Hannah Dittman:And being willing to kind of ask questions to your customer base too. I think that's where you're going to get best information sometimes, like customer surveys and just really understanding what's going on and the portion of the journey that you can no longer see when it's in someone's hands or home. And getting that information can be really valuable and critical for founders for sure. Yeah, good point. Did you hear that? That's opportunity knocking. We've been building something big, introducing Opportunity Knocks, a new campaign giving startup CPG brands exclusive direct access to submit to leading retailers, distributors, investors, media, and more.

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19:51Hannah Dittman:Is there anything that you wish that you knew at the beginning of your investing career or your career in general that you know now that you feel like you're carrying forward and happy to have learned? Yeah, I'd say two things. One, I've been the young swing for the fences. I've got a unicorn idea entrepreneur before. And you kind of need a lot of that naive confidence and momentum to make these things work. When I see that in people that we're investing in, I'm aware of it. And I definitely I don't try to you don't want to squash it. It's a valuable thing to keep them going. But you need to realize quick that you do not know what you do not know.

20:34And that is definitely the most important advice I've ever had. That's the reason I went back to grad school was, you know, I'd been working as a startup founder while, you know, doing consulting and other things and doing a lot of trial and error, you know, really figuring things out. And I felt like I kind of got to a point where I needed to know for sure what I was maybe missing because I just didn't know what it was. And I think prior to that, I would have said, you don't, I'll say this consistently, you don't need an MBA to be an entrepreneur. An entrepreneur is the type of person. You definitely don't need that.

21:06I'm not advocating for that. I just wanted to find out what maybe I was missing that I wasn't aware of, you know, to get more well-rounded. And that was a good exercise. So definitely focusing on that. And then on the investment advice, this isn't every deal, but you're basically looking for reasons to say no a lot. So I think if you think about the investor having that perspective and don't give them any reasons to say no, like really think through, again, with confidence, like all the things that they might want to know like don't leave those gaps don't give them a reason to say no sounds simple but it's valuable yes and definitely hard to execute but very well

21:45Hannah Dittman:said and i think reframing anything to be in the audience's mindset helps so much whatever you're trying to do fundraising no exception of course and really understanding how an investor might be approaching the situation and what they might be thinking about i think is very sage advice You know, you mentioned founders that have kind of a naive confidence or a certain excitement and seeing the potential of what they're doing, maybe without seeing all of the blind spots. Outside of that, are there any other key traits you look for in founders or you think characteristics that founders really need to be successful or that get you very excited about making an investment with them?