693: How to Build Powerful Professional Relationships That Advance Your Career with Gina London, CEO of Language of Leadership, Ltd.

0:27Welcome to the Strategy Skills Podcast, where strategy partners teach you the tools and techniques to solve mankind's greatest problems.

0:47Gina London: Welcome to the Strategy Skills Podcast. I'm your host, Kris Safarova, and we have with us today a very special guest, Gina London. And I am usually the one presenting the guests, but I think it's getting boring. So I will let Gina present herself because she has an incredible story and no one can tell it better than her. Gina, tell us a little bit about how you got to this moment in your life. The first headline I would say is that I didn't plan to be a business coach or a leadership expert or a communications advisor. I wanted to be a journalist. I grew up in a small town in Indiana. I saw the reporting and the date lines from faraway places as an opportunity for me to explore the world.

1:34And I studied journalism. I studied politics. And when I was in Indiana University, my first job out of college was at the Orlando Sentinel. So I started out in a newspaper. I made my way then to Washington, worked briefly for the Democratic Party as a strategist, which was a great job back in those days because Republicans and Democrats actually got along and went to parties together and enjoyed one another's company. Then I had an opportunity to work in my first television newsroom. And I worked at the local Fox 5 affiliate, WTTG, for five years, had an amazing experience going out in the field, writing, producing, overnight shifts, so a lot of the rigors of news.

2:17Then I had an opportunity to write as a freelancer over at the CNN Bureau in Washington with my sights on the idea of being a big Washington correspondent, maybe Christian and poor covering global affairs and interviewing leaders. And one day there was a merger and the guys and gals who were my executives that were promoting me were suddenly taking early retirement. and my contract wasn't renewed one year. And I had to make this shift then. Do I want to try to go into another avenue of another news outlet? Or I got headhunted by a big lobbying government affairs firm and I created a department of communications.

3:02And Chris, there was an article about me in a magazine that said the headline, from hack to flack. So my career shifted. And I went from telling other people's stories that I'd done all these years, 10 years plus at CNN, to helping other people tell their own stories. So we were working on projects across the United States, development projects, transit projects, projects that were hopefully going to improve other people's lives and helping them simplify the reasons why they should be supported. and then I had an opportunity to work overseas in civil society. I was able to work with the first women, for example, who were running for parliament in Iraq.

3:45I worked with people in Cambodia to help them get the idea of malaria immunization across their country. So I started doing strategic issue campaigns, and that led me into the corporate world, where I was doing more and more leadership communication, presentations, messaging for the media. this holistic approach of executive presence. And that's where I find myself today. Most of my time is spent coaching senior leaders how to have more impact, social events internally or their engagement of their employees, external events. It could also be cohesion around their senior leadership team. But no matter where they are and who they are or even their sector, Chris, It's helping people one by one take more control, becoming more aware and making more positive impact while they communicate and connect.

4:43Gina London: Can you tell us more about how you got your first TV job? I think that is a very interesting dream that many people have. People in corporate world often lack creativity in their life and actually want to do something like that. They just don't tell anyone they do. So I think people would love to hear how you ended up being on TV. Thanks. I think for me, for anyone, the importance of relationships can't be overstated. Networking is one of those fancy words. It sounds like, oh, it's so contrived and so exploitative and then the ability to be able to network. But I was referred from a friend of mine at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, where I was working as a 22-year-old research opposition strategist.

5:31I wanted to get into television, didn't know anybody in TV news, had a little bit of a background in newspapers, had a little bit of a resume that I could lean into. But my friend Kiefer's cousin Lisa worked over at the Fox 5 station, and that got me an opportunity to have a coffee with her, which got me an opportunity to apply and get the secretary to the news director's job. It wasn't. oh, I went and got some big high-profile correspondence job. But it was that I knew someone who could vouch for me, who could meet me, who could refer me. And that is a lot of what I do today. And I think anyone out there thinking about, how do I make a pivot?

6:10How do I improve my career? How do I advance myself if I'm an entrepreneur? How do I go to pitch to investors? Take your network strong, get advisors, Get trusted confidants. Speak about your dreams. Speak about your goals. And that helps get that amplified idea out there. And that helps you hopefully find that next path of where you want to get to. And so for me, my first job was from a referral from another person. I had to step into it once I got that door open. And then from my first job over at CNN, it was a producer at the local Fox station who said, hey, I know they're hiring freelancers and gave me a name of a woman that I could call who was coordinating the freelance writers over at CNN.

6:59And by the way, I had to call her and leave a message back in the day before we were texting. I called and left her a message. I want to say six times, and she never responded, and she never responded, and I almost kind of made a game out of it. Hi, Lisa, it's Gina again. I'm not sure if you've been on holiday. I'm not sure what's going on, but I still would love to come in and just take that writer's test. And she had actually been on holiday, and a couple of things had gone on where she came back and said, you know what? I appreciate your persistence. You never got frustrated. And so, again, another human referral is what got me to that writer's test, which got me to that freelance job, which ultimately got me my first and only correspondent job at the network, was at the network level.

7:43So talk it up, meet people, don't be shy, reach above your station, be polite, be persistent.

7:52Gina London: I agree. Can you tell us how you went from being an assistant to actually being on TV? That's a big jump. It sounds like a big jump. And of course, telling the story is a lot shorter than actually living it. like anyone can tell you. I think that I was so determined. I was, as I mentioned, asking everybody. So when I was writing overnight and producing overnight at the local Fox station, this was before, this was like 94 or 93. It's before the Fox News channel actually launched. So there was not considered a competition between the local news channel and the network channel. Otherwise, you wouldn't have been able to be working in one and trying to freelance at the other just to make that clear for the context.

8:36But what I was doing is when I was writing over at the CNN station during the day and then going overnights and going back to the local, they were starting to become aware of me in both places, right? So the local news, there was a one day when a reporter didn't come in and I always dressed for the part when I was working overnights and I covered that in my book that just came out last month. But the point is, I was always dressed for the job I wanted, even though overnights, Chris, a lot of people would come in and track suits or even pajamas and their sandals. I mean, it was really a very loose place if you weren't on air, but I always came as if I was dressed on air.

9:18And one time a reporter called in sick, and I was given a chance on the local channel to do a live shot to do a report to step in for that one that one day and then over at cnn the writers i came in the next day and they said wait a minute we saw you on the news locally do you do that i said i would love to so i started over time because i was doing more in the local cnn was watching me and started getting opportunities to freelance at cnn and after about i don't know three or four months maybe of freelancing at both places cnn actually offered me a full-time correspondent job this is such a great example

9:56Gina London: of just being a star in the way you can be, the skills you have, developing yourself all the time, and then being presentable. And then the opportunity will come. Eventually something will come up. Well, it will or it won't. What if this pushback on that from the only standpoint of there was no guarantee that I was going to be asked to be a correspondent. But definitely I would not have been had I not made the effort. definitely I would not have been had I not said yes when I was given the opportunity to freelance. So yes, and there's no guarantee if you really, really, really try. I don't want to put that false idea out to anyone.

10:38However, I do want to stress if you don't, there is a guarantee that you won't. So yes, with the caveat of I also think the timing was good. I think there might have been a little luck, but I certainly had to step into the job once I was given that opportunity. But certainly if I hadn't worked hard and dressed for it and put my hand up and kept talking about it, they're not going to seek you out of nowhere. And sometimes when I'm working with clients who are thinking about their career path progression, if you're only leaning in on your technical skills and you're not working visibly and you're not talking to your direct report or talking to other senior leaders or speaking your big dreams out loud, then how is anyone going to know that's your desire.

11:23So I'm not a big believer in just manifesting and writing it on some Pinterest board. I am a big believer of working hard, talking it up, asking for advice, making course corrections, and going for every opportunity that you can.

11:40Gina London: Yes, I agree. What I was referring to is, of course, you cannot guarantee it will be that opportunity. But when you are that kind of person, there will be opportunities eventually. I just see it from my own career. I agree. And Chris, I was in an event a couple of weeks ago here in Dublin where I live, where Oprah Winfrey, the famous Oprah, was speaking. And she is no question a success. And she is no question someone who's worked really hard. However, when she was telling about her story, as I was sitting there listening to her, I thought a lot of it was oversimplified. But it did feel a little bit, hey if you work hard and you listen to that small voice in your heart and you're really excellent then you can have what Oprah has I think that's a little oversimplified so I just want to set out there that I think absolutely hard work we need to do it we need to try as hard as we can we need to be talking to other people and not everybody who's as talented as Taylor Swift happens to be and filling up the stadiums the way that she does.

12:46I think there's also a little bit of luck and a little bit of good breaks involved. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, for sure.

12:52Gina London: And then another element here is that you need to be in the right environment. You may be in an environment where opportunities would come up eventually. If you're working somewhere in a warehouse and there are one more person working there, no one ever sees you, you may be the star, the best person in the world for that job, and you may never get an opportunity. I say a lot, go, show, and grow. So the go part is, yeah, I mean, I was living in Washington, D.C. My first job in television news was not in West Virginia or Montana, which are great states, but have very small viewerships in the local news market.

13:31I went to Washington. I worked really hard to get into that market. And I think that's important. So where do you want to be? Where can you go? The show part, I'm talking it up. I'm changing my, I'm getting my tape together. I'm getting all my practice stuff together so I can show it to someone. I'm working extra hard. I was working overnight. Plus, I was going to freelancing at the CNN Bureau. So sometimes I was, we couldn't sustain it, but I was getting sometimes four hours of sleep between the different freelance gigs and my regular gigs. And then the grow part is constantly trying to learn.

14:06Even today, I'm still trying to find myself new leadership thinkers, new amazing clients. So it's a constant go show and grow cycle, I think.

14:18Gina London: Gina, and let's imagine somebody is living in a large city with a lot of opportunities and they have a good job in the corporate world. They are relatively senior, but not yet anywhere as close to where they want to go. And they never paid attention to networking. and they also were not born in the city and they don't really know anyone other than a few people they work with. Where do they start? How do they start building their network? Wherever you are, if you're not in the right city physically, you're still able online to go onto LinkedIn. If you don't want to build within your own organization, start looking parallel to organizations that you'd like to be in.

14:58You can use whatever AI agent to help you with how you're going to start reaching out, but do start reaching out. You can use fantastic AI agents to craft that opening email or that opening line in someone on LinkedIn. Then you have to be able, this is the important part about the human connection piece, you have to be able to match whatever that AI agent says as your opening line to who you are and how you talk about yourself. But for sure, you can start building your network. I'm mentoring a young man right now in Nigeria. who has a dream to be on CNN. And we're doing a lot of different things for him to start to move into finding a mentor locally from the freelancers there in Nigeria that are contributing to CNN International, that he can start to have them notice him, start to be vested in him.

15:48I'm no longer a real asset in the CNN world because I've been out of it for so long. But there are great active people. If you're thinking about what organization do you want to be in, you don't have to be looking on the outside. You can start to engage through social media, find them where they are on their platforms and start engaging. Don't ask too soon, but start to show an interest, start to contribute, start to be able to build a real human connection to that person. And then that can lead to an actual virtual coffee that can lead to potentially an in-person coffee that can move you along a slower road, perhaps, and just going in and going in another organization.

16:26but definitely online networking is a way to start even if you've never networked before

16:31Gina London: what do you think is a good opening line for a message like that i think that the overly contrived stuff sounds overly contrived i think that depending on who you are and where they are first of all not to get too into it too much but obviously do are they someone who's active they're not active on linkedin they might not ever even see your message so you got to pay attention to what their participation rate is. But let's say they are someone who's active. You reach out over there on Connect. First of all, pay for Sales Navigator because that already elevates you as someone who's serious. And then when you reach out to that person, say, I'm so-and-so quick.

17:15I'm in the field. I'm looking to learn more about what you do. I mean, I'm an admirer of you. I think you're interesting. I think we've got common value. You know, whatever the common piece is, but I would make it three sentences max. Because all you're asking here is, would love to connect. And that's it. And then you wait. If they don't connect, you go to somebody else. Or you try to find a way to connect with them six months, three months from now. But don't barrage them because that's annoying and they're going to definitely say no thank you. But find a quick little hook that's real from the heart.

17:49don't share too much. I really want you to mentor me. I really would love to work in your organization. Too much. When we talk about know your audience, know your intent, and then message, that's my fundamental strategic framework for any kind of client work I do, any kind of communication event I'm preparing for, AIM. Your intent needs to be extremely narrow. So in this case, your intent is just to have them connect. Don't be thinking five steps down the line because that's not where they are mentally. All you're asking is, hey, you're amazing. Here's what I do. We'd love to connect. The end.

18:25Gina London: And once they connect with you, what would be your recommendation? How to take it from there? Exactly. And then depending on who you are in your own career progression and who they are, we got to be strategic and situational. I would say once they've connected, thanks so much for the connection. I look forward to engaging on your posts the most recent thing you said about whatever was really interesting. Keep it short. Don't barrage them. You don't get that first date and then start to love bomb them and freak them out. So we need to think about building very slowly. And then over time, you can potentially say, I would love to have a virtual coffee with you to learn more about your professional journey.

19:09If you're really trying to network in that way, and you're leaning towards someone who's more senior, that's what I would ask. And I wouldn't go to if you're an emerging leader in an organization of 1 ,200 employees and you're reaching out to Bill McDermott, the corporate CEO of ServiceNow, which has 100 ,000 employees. I'm pretty sure you're not going to get that kind of reaction or that interaction. But build within your network, then build a little bit higher. Start to exercise your muscles of networking before you go for the golden goose. Not calling Bill McDermott a goose, by the way.

19:44Gina London: Of course. So I'm just asking detailed questions because I know some of our listeners will want to know. Otherwise, they will feel they don't have enough information to try to implement. I think it's important to have this kind of a progression in mind. But again, these are where these AI agents can be helpful for you so you don't get ahead of yourself. Go and ask, hey, what's my approach for this? What is this? Does this strategy, the sequencing sound reasonable? What would you suggest? bounce it off a little bit of them if you can't get a human coach I certainly would recommend you get some sort of coach because it's good to get out of your head and get a different kind of reflection on whatever your plans are that's not it's a support that's not a substitute for the human beings in your life it's very important to make sure that we're not substituting with all the AI agents out there that we're supporting ourselves as a human being because ultimately we're the ones that are going to get hired.

20:41We're the ones that are developing ourselves to be leaders. We're the ones who are making human connections for positive impact.

20:48Gina London: Gina, and so let's say someone reached out the first time saying, I'm looking forward to engaging on your posts and so on. How long should they continue the relationships and engaging on the posts before they ask for a short time to speak to that person? Well, it depends on what you're doing with, again, it depends. It depends on what you're doing with your engaging. Are you just putting a thumbs up? Are you actually reading what they post? Are you maybe even on the comments? I wouldn't do everything DM because that might freak somebody out too. If they're posting something and you put in the comments, not just, hey, congratulations, whatever the LinkedIn AI suggests that you put in.

21:27You actually give it a couple of lines. Don't give it too many lines because then you look like a stalker. Just put in a couple of lines. It shows you actually read it, that you reflected upon it. If you want to also add your own, this reminds me of this, don't make it all about you, look it back up to them, but make a thoughtful comment. I don't really say, I don't know, it depends on the person and the frequency with which they're posting. You don't want to bombard them. Give it the cadence of a couple of weeks, maybe, depending on what that goes, minimum, a couple of weeks. And then you would say, you know what, would you be open into a 10-minute virtual call, would love to hear more about your story.

22:08Don't say, and I also want to tell you about me. Just say, I would really love to hear your own virtual story, or hear your story virtually, rather. And I mean, that's, look, that's what I do. And I'm, I have a bit of a profile at this point. I'm still reaching out to organizations. I just had a great conversation with an amazing bank in Egypt that I may be going out to and speaking at in December. That was all from a LinkedIn pipeline, essentially. So it's constant networking, otherwise known as business development of yourself. And the more that you can actively do that, consider this a long game.

22:45You're building your own body of content. So whoever you are, I would certainly say, start to post things on LinkedIn. Not every self-congratulatory thing has to be posted, but I would get into at least every week cadence. So you're starting to also build your own story, your own credibility. Don't just be relying on the other people out there to be putting in things on LinkedIn. You have a story worthy too. Even if you're not a major senior leader on a big organization, you can talk about your own sales journey, your own lesson that you learned because you didn't land something right, your own mentor that you got within your organization, a coach that you had when you were in college that that lesson's coming back to you in this particular aspect.

23:31Now, you can share little nuggets from your own journey that starts to make you have this body of content out there. So then if you do reach out to someone and they happen to glance over at you and see you're not a bot, see you're not bombarding with the same kind of message to every single person like some of these AI minions are out there doing, which LinkedIn is trying to flag, then you might be able to make a human connection. But the biggest caveat of all is try to make it human. It's going to take some effort and it's going to take some time. But it is worth it because you're in here for the long haul.

24:04Gina London: Gina, and during those first few weeks when you're just engaging on posts, do you also sometimes reach out in messages or not? It depends. Like, let's say they reach out to me. Okay. Again, it depends. This is where emotional intelligence and social awareness is really important. So check yourself. Don't be a robot and just reach out to a million people and then go, yeah, can I have that 10-minute conversation? You've been in a conversation. I know it's a numbers game, but you're going to start to sound like you're spamming everyone. So I want you to dig deep and think about the other person to whom you're reaching out.

24:42What is their style? Can you tell from LinkedIn? Are they something that looks like they will answer back? I personally try to answer back to everyone that I get on LinkedIn myself. And it can be anybody from someone who's wanting me to speak at an event to someone who's actually just got a question from their own journey. And I really do try to give that time. so you've talked to them for a few weeks you realize that that person is responding back to you in a kind way like if they just if you ask to connect and they just connect they didn't say oh thanks chris great to meet you or great to hear from you appreciate that then they probably aren't that interested in having a personal conversation you've got to keep checking your emotional intelligence, reading the signals from them and making as best you can an informed decision.

25:35There's not a one fail safe formula because individuals are unique. So I can't presume to go, this is always going to work. And anybody who tells you that this is the right and true, every shoe fits every person formula, be aware that they're just trying to tell you something.

25:54Gina London: Definitely. And then once you have that call, what would be your recommendation on how to manage that. Great. So when you have that call, this is where audience and intent message comes in important too. You're not just listening. You are listening. You're also asking for, you're going to ask them for something. Is there someone else you could recommend me to? Is there someone else that you could introduce me to? Is there one bit of advice you'd give for me? That's all I would do. You don't need to tell them all your things. You could say, I really have a dream of working in your organization at one point, or I have a dream of being in a leadership role like yours.

26:31Then stop because we don't need to over-index it because it's all about keeping the tennis ball of a conversation in their court. You're wanting to hear more from them. So you can share your little short interim dream. Then ask them what's one piece of advice or who else might you interview? Is there one person you could introduce me to? That is it. If you bombard them with questions or asks, it's going to be too much. Don't forget they're a very busy person. They've given you 10 minutes. Make the ask very simple and very doable.

27:06Gina London: And would you recommend keeping it to 10 minutes or not? Well, I would definitely encourage you to offer a 10 minutes to say, could you give me a 10-minute virtual coffee or virtual call so I can just hear a bit about your story? Because if you say 30 minutes, whoa, who are you? Why am I giving you 30 minutes? Even my first business development calls that I do, I structure them 20 because it just sounds a little less taxing on whoever the other people's are valuable time. If it starts to feel comfortable and you're enjoying the conversation, I hope you've booked it for 30 minutes in your mind.

27:46They might say, I really need to leave at 20 or I needed to leave at 10. But if it's flowing, then you've also booked yourself mentally that you can go a little bit longer if it's feeling natural. But yes, I wouldn't try to go. I would always go under. And if it's comfortable, you're going over because a lot of people are just going to push back and they don't have the time to get.

28:06Gina London: And what usually happens after such conversation based on your experience? It depends. Again, I know I'm saying that a lot, but we need to be realistic in our expectations. If I had a dollar for every virtual coffee that I've had, I would be retired right now on a beach somewhere. Because a lot of conversations are just that. But I want you to think about the outcomes of those conversations, not just as selling yourself and making that next job opportunity or making that career path progression opportunity. I want you to also think about what are you practicing? You're practicing listening. You're practicing how you talk about yourself.

28:45You're practicing how you ask questions of another person. You're practicing this whole art of engagement and art of conversation. And it is a developable skill. The whole thing around what I coach now, what I train, is intentional communications. Intentionality around the strategy, the structure, and the delivery of us as human beings. So everyone you get is an opportunity to learn from to exercise a muscle you might have not exercised before. If you're going to be virtual, how do you frame your shot? How do you look at someone in the camera making it look like they're looking at you or that you're looking at them?

29:27How do you keep your face engaged and your eyes engaged and your body language engaged? You see, for example, guys, that I come in standing. I don't do this just because I'm on Chris's podcast. I did this for every single call, workshop, coaching session, webinar. If I'm in virtual, I'm standing and my shot is as framed as I can, as even lit as I can be. Chris and I were talking before we started. She's coming in from a hotel today. I was in a hotel yesterday or last week doing a webinar for a big organization in France. But I set up my shot so that it could still allow me to have the freedom of movement.

30:06So you're exercising the muscles of you every conversation. If you do get a warm conversation and they offer to do something for you or give it advice, then follow up. Thank you. Appreciate it. Look forward to that introduction. Shall I write a little one-liner about myself so that you can cut and paste it into your introduction for me? Think about how to make their life easier. You are thinking about a timeline of touch points about a human being. And don't get looking for the quick win because you're putting a lot of irons in the fire of yourself out there. Some might come through quickly. Some might be a longer burn.

30:51I was talking for 18 months to a person on LinkedIn before I got a conversation. They weren't in a position where they could hire me. They were with a different organization. They changed organizations. And then last year, they'd moved into an executive role at Qatar Airways. You know, we think you'd be perfect for this senior leadership team group that we have. It's some cohesion. Flew me out to Doha. Had an amazing time. But that's because I kept my cool and I kept persistent, just like that little girl back in Washington who was calling for the freelance coordinator at CNN to keep building that relationship.

31:30I've got other relationships that I'm trying to continue to coordinate and nurture alongside, but that's the rinse, repeat, and renew of life. So until you're dead, this is how we continue to build relationships and opportunities. So I would encourage everyone, anyone, not just through LinkedIn, you go to a networking event and you want to do the research beforehand. and you want to have a couple of lines you can ask about themselves and what to be able to feel, you can follow up as well. In person, virtual, this relationship building, hopefully, is an ongoing practice that you continue to want to get better at every day.

32:11That's the goal.

32:12Gina London: And let's say you had a very good call, 10 minutes, and then let's say they gave you advice at the end. How do you continue relationships after that? Just write to them. You've got their email because that's how you set up the call. And now you can use that way and they've helped it in to give you their email right away. So you've got that. You write back to them or to their assistant, including them, and say, gracious, thank you. Look, if you are close enough, you ask them for that in-person meeting then coming up. Would you be up for meeting for a real coffee in the next quarter? You know, give them some open-ended opportunity to say yes.

32:49When psychology, we think about a series of successive yeses. so we don't ask for too much we ask for that would you be open to meeting again this time in person for 30 minutes in the next quarter so now you've just given them a pretty easy opportunity to say yeah then you go back and you work with their assistant you work with them that's October work is there you just keep narrowing it down you don't want to play too much ping pong with emails of course this is where I want you to use your wisdom about what you would expect or what you would hope. The whole idea here is we want to nurture relationships incrementally because that's how we build bonds of trust that last.

33:30If you jump to too much transactionalism right away and you don't have a strong relationship with that person, their tendency is going to be to shut down and move on to something else they know better. So we want to nurture the relationship like any relationship. It progresses over time. Does that help?

33:46Gina London: Yeah, definitely. And have you found any common ways in which you can be helpful to them? Because you never want to have one-sided relationships. Of course. And this is where being well-read, being up on current events, reading things like the Harvard Business Review or the Financial Times, so that you can refer to articles that you might have read. Be aware of columns or be aware of other, maybe if you're, depending on what area of focus you're in, is there someone that's active on TikTok or Instagram or on LinkedIn, or they've got some sort of a podcast that you think is interesting and you can say, Oh, I actually heard this on, on Chris's podcast, or I heard this on this particular YouTube channel, be someone who can also contribute to that person because they might be, if they're a senior and you're a bit younger and you're junior, you can probably help almost reverse mentor them and say, you know what, this is a channel that a lot of people are communicating on now.

34:48You might want to check it out. Or this is a platform that you might not have heard. This is a podcast you might not have heard of. So being able to also contribute and not just be a taker is fantastic. So I would absolutely encourage you to do some homework before you have that virtual call. You don't want to bombard them, but you do want to be thinking about how can I add some value. That's also something you could do when you're doing a follow-up as well. And look, you can cheat with your AI agent to say, what's relevant in this area that's come out in the last week that I might be able to draw their attention to?

35:22You should read it yourself so that you're not just contributing something that you don't have any interest or any awareness of yourself. But you can also, that can help bolster you and help you better prepare more efficiently before you've got that call or afterwards in the follow-up.

35:35Gina London: Gina, and I think one question that many of our listeners have right now is, Gina, how much time are you spending on this so that they can decide if it's worthwhile for them to try? I'm talking about networking, and this is one tiny little fraction of all of the pieces of the pie of who you are. So if you're thinking about your own pie management, you need to be realistic, and you also need to know where's your energy efficiency. So for me, I am much more productive early in the morning. By 4 o 'clock in the afternoon, I'm starting to fade. I will do my social postings usually in the morning. I will also be doing my follow-ups probably early in the morning.

36:17I'm not going to spend consistently all that time because that's too much disruption to what I'm doing for other things. My client work, obviously, if you're working in a dog, you've got to do your own job and your own requirements and your own projects. I also don't check my email constantly throughout the day because that starts to get too much. We're so overloaded with stimulus right now that being able to carve out efficient time slots is really important. So when do you work out? When do you go for a walk outdoors? When do you eat and sit down and actually focus on the food and not just be watching something on your phone while you're eating?

36:58Do you make time for friends? Do you make time for activities that feed your soul? You can't. you'll burn out if you're only doing all of this kind of stuff so making a list of your day when you're most productive carving out again you're not trying to do everything in one week this is a long time goal i was years ago when i was working the democratic senatorial campaign committee the press secretary there was this guy named jeff eller and he was amazing and like really just this hard-carging guy. Everybody was impressed with him. I was just starting out, had a little bit of interaction with him.

37:39He was paying grades above me. Years later, though, I kept in touch with him on social, lightly impressed by that. He ran a, at that point, he moved to Texas and ran a big crisis communications agency there. They, they did a lot of work with big, big names. Years later, maybe 20 years later, so think about this, the seeds that you plant, 20 years later, the State Department reached out to me, the U.S. State Department. We have an opportunity for you to go to Ghana to work with the spokespeople from the Ghanaian government. And we have another trainer that's been to come with you. He's actually asked to be partnered with you because he remembers your journey and he remembers how eager you were or how whatever you were ambitious and you tried so hard years ago when we first met you.

38:25It was Jeff Eller. And it was amazing. That moment of sitting at the Holiday Inn, in the bar, in a craw, after we'd had our first session with these incredible people, having a beer together, talking about how our careers had moved. So when you're thinking about, oh, what do I do next? What do I do in the next three weeks? Start planting seeds. Start spending a little time, not an inordinate amount of time. It doesn't matter if you're 25 or 55, you can begin to continue to plant more seeds. And you don't know when they're going to grow. You know, like I said before about the career thing, they're not going to grow if you don't do anything.

39:08So nurturing them little by little, you don't have to be thinking about getting things across the line in a week. I want you to think about the long planting season. Life is short, but life is also long. So take comfort in that.

39:23Gina London: I also want to congratulate you on writing your book. Thank you. What are some of the key things you want people to take away, key insights? Thanks. I'm selfishly grabbing it right here from the shelf. It's called Amplify You. It's not called Change You. It's called Amplify You for a reason. So, folks, we live in an AI world. It says how to power up your connections in an AI world. And yet, when we're uncertain about what technical skills AI might replace, I am calling everyone to be irreplaceable as a human being by taking more control of these human skills of connection. We've touched on some of them today.

40:07How do you think about yourself? How do you talk to yourself? What's your self-talk if you're going through a networking sequence with LinkedIn, as we spend a lot of time talking about already? How then do you talk to others when you are in that virtual conversation or an in-person conversation or giving a presentation? AI can help you prepare, but it cannot yet replace you. So this book takes you through say it, look it, be it, so that you can start to equip yourself just like someone learning to play the piano or someone learning to play golf and learning how to do a golf swing. It's muscle memory.

40:47It's not you're born with confidence, you're born with executive presence or you're not. You can develop your thoughts, your voice, your word construction, your structure, your thoughts in real time about what's happening in that communication event and everything is a communication event not to be manipulative it's to become a more value presenter someone who's more genuinely thinking of the other people able to construct in a way that's meaningful and memorable and it's all in the book and i have qr codes to help you when i'm talking about different techniques. So it's like you get a small little coaching session with me along the way.

41:30And I'm really proud of it, because I think it's coming at an incredible time. Are we going to go for a human renaissance? Or are we going to let AI substitute for ourselves? And I hope it's not that one.

41:44Gina London: Gina, and in the book, you talk about communicating by design. Can you explain what it means? Yes. So all of us right now, wherever your baseline is, whatever your tendencies of communication are. You might be vaguely aware. You might be very aware. You might self-describe yourself as an introvert or an extrovert. With that knowledge, maybe you've taken a psychometric tool assessment around your color. Are you a fiery red? Are you a more social yellow or green? When you have this awareness, that's what I call your baseline. That's your default style of communicating. That's not where we stop. That's just the starting place.

42:25So once you're aware, even someone who describes themselves or has been described by a psychometric tool as an introvert or quiet, you can still learn how to physically amplify your voice, project your voice so you can claim and maintain the room when you're contributing. It doesn't make you fake. It makes you developing yourself. So that's what I call the design communicator. Over time, just as you're hearing me speak right now, this is the style of my voice. This is the enunciation of my voice. This is the cadence of my voice. This is the tone of my voice, not to mention the body language and the other things, this whole integrated communication experience.

43:08It is developed and it has become the new default. That doesn't mean I'm stopping in the new default though either. It means I'm constantly reassessing, making little changes, trying to recalibrate myself to be more impactful in a positive way. And this is the whole idea of lifetime growth and development. You've got a default. We're moving to design. Over time, that becomes your new default. Then we're going to move to another element that we're going to design. And again, and I mentioned the piano and I mentioned golf. You don't just read a book about golf or watch a YouTube video about golf.

43:45You have to put your hands on the golf club and you have to practice that swing. You have to put your hands on the keyboard and practice those drills. Same way with when you practice your being of you. It's not becoming fake. It's because you are learning how to amplify you, parts of you that are going to better connect. your listening your construction your engaged face i had a ceo who knew he was an engineer he knew his his work really well he's got a couple of companies he was just buying a new company in the uk christine came to me and he said i need to go over to the uk and reassure these people that we're not making everybody redundant and i said well the first thing you're going to have to do is learn to tell your face what the words are because your face is showing that you're just really serious and he's like I'm not being serious I'm just thinking about the words I said but people aren't knowing that they're just seeing your face looks really severe so you're going to need to learn how to smile a little bit more when the message is positive and uplifting so that reads congruently to your audience and he goes I don't do this happy clappy stuff and I put him on camera and showed him telling his welcome speech to these employees the way he normally would and then encouraging him to smile like he felt his face was cracking.

45:06I showed him both of those video clips, and he said, well, I could probably even smile more, couldn't I? I don't look very likable in that one. I thought I was smiling like a clown. I said, exactly. So this is the process of becoming more aware, having the desire, and then putting in that daily work to become who you want to become. It's not about becoming someone else, but it's about becoming a more intentional design version of you.

45:36Gina London: Gina, and I also wanted to ask, what is your advice on accent reduction? Because I know a lot of people, some of our clients and some of our listeners of the podcast, people who were not born in the United States, but currently working in the United States, or for example, in UK, and they would like to reduce the current accent that they have. Right. So first of all, I do a lot of work with second language English speakers who are speaking English and predominantly English first organizations. And they can be senior leaders. They can be emerging leaders. Yes, modification can help you be better understood.

46:16It is not, however, a requirement for you to lose your complete accent to become an American or British sounding person, because that is never the answer. The answer, though, is what I call the isolate and integrate process. So, for example, I was working with the chief technical officer for years from Père Novoquart. So French native speaker needing to speak on a lot of global stages, also to his largely native French speaking, but they were working in the English language when they're working across the countries. Hey, so there were some words that he used a lot in the lexicon of Pernod Ricard that were hard to understand for native English speakers ear.

47:06And the reason this is important is when we are speaking at face, If a word that's important is missed, we, the listeners, are spending a second trying to decode what that word was while the speaker is continuing to go so we lose track. And when we lose track, we either can catch up and miss a couple of words, hopefully getting the gist of the meaning, or what often happens, especially in a big presentation, we start to check out. We start thinking of something else. We start to ignore. It takes too much effort for us to listen. So it is our responsibility as the speaker to not make them have more effort than they need to.

47:48So we work on particular words, enunciating, adding the H in hardly instead of R and V, things like those. I can't think of some of the words off the top of my mind. When I'm working, for example, with people in Southeast Asia where the letter V for value might be pronounced value, we need to learn how to make the sound of value. It's not changing your accent, but it is learning how to pronounce words in a way that are easily understood by a range of speakers, especially nativing those speakers when that's required. So, for example, where I grew up in a small town in Indiana, the nation's capital that I reported from in front of the White House for years, we would have pronounced, and I did for years, not as Washington, but as Washington.

48:43So that R, I needed to make it Washington, and I needed to make sure that I got the G in Washington. So it wasn't Washington. Washington. And these are small things. I'm still speaking like an American. I still have an American accent. I've lived in Ireland for 11 years. I do not have an Irish accent, but I do have more of a neutral enunciation when it comes to certain words that I grew up in my own dialect. So there's some of that in the book as well. I have my isolation integration technique. So you're learning the isolated words, then you're integrating them smoothly into context. So you don't have a mental hiccup when you come to it.

49:26But again, this is the default design default. And out loud practice is critical.

49:33Gina London: Gina, such an amazing conversation today. So much value for everyone listening. I hope that you guys will implement and check for yourself if what Gina recommended is something that you're comfortable with doing. And I think that the key point is that we do need to build relationships. You don't have to do it on LinkedIn, but you have to do it. Relationships are conversations. Most of our conversations happen with ourselves and then sometimes with others. Point of Amplify You, my book, and the work that I do is that each of us can take more control of the way that we communicate to ourselves and to others, not to become exploitative and manipulative, but because we genuinely want to make human connections that matter and are meaningful.

50:22So I would love for you to dig into the book. Thank you so much for your time, Chris, and make your connections a great one.

50:29Gina London: Thank you. Gina, where can our listeners learn more about you, buy your book, anything else you want to share? Lovely. So, of course, ginalondon.com is my website. You can also find me on LinkedIn since we've spent a lot of time talking about LinkedIn. I'm active over on Insta and TikTok as well. Well, the book is available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and in the UK Waterstones. You can also get it in some bookstores as well. But certainly on my website, GinaLundson.com, you can contact me. I'm happy to speak at your organization. I'm happy to come and do a workshop at your organization. But most importantly of all, I would be delighted if you buy the book.

51:11Please let me know. Drop me a follow over on socials. And I hope we can make our own connections and relationships just like we have here today.

51:19Gina London: Thank you, Gina. Our guest was Gina London. And this episode is brought to you by strategytraining.com, the company that, as you know, brings to you all the episodes and basically sponsors the fact that we can do the podcast because we don't make any money from the podcast. But we just love having conversations with incredible people like Gina. And you can download some gifts from us. You can get how to build a consulting practice at firmsconsulting.com forward slash build. You can access first episode of that program. And you can also get the overall approach used in well-managed strategy studies at firmsconsulting.com forward slash overall approach.

52:01Gina London: And if you are preparing for interviews, regardless of level of seniority, you can actually get our template for resumes at firmsconsulting.com forward slash resume PDF. Thank you so much for tuning in. And I'm looking forward to connect with you all next time.

52:22Thanks for listening to this episode of the Strategy Skills Podcast. Stay up to date on all of our latest training by signing up for our email updates on firmsconsulting.com. We look forward to helping you develop your strategy, critical thinking, decision-making, and communication skills next time here on the Strategy Skills Podcast.

52:56Thank you.